Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

amber2

If a planning applicant was given a further information request and has not answered some parts truthfully and not sufficiently answered other questions fully, is it best to bring this to the attention of the local authority or to leave it until the An Board Pleanala stage. I Have objected with the local authority and am unsure if this would strengthen our case for An Board P. if we bring it up now or if we should wait and raise these as some of our arguments on grounds to appeal the local auth decision.

I am pretty sure that regardless of if we get the further info request fulfilled correctly that the local authority will grant permission either way, but not so sure about the board. Would the board take a dim view of an applicant not being truthful.

rayjdav

Amber,

With regard to the applicant not responding truthfully, I would advise to tread carefully on that one...
It may be seen as "Vexacious", which will not be tolerated, depending on how you approach the RFI and any subsequent response you resubmit to counter it... Have your facts is my best advise there, and to submit it via an experienced professional who will know how to approach the situation democratically.

On the issue of the RFI not been satisfactorily responded to, the council will note the level of info returned and make their own call on this aspect of it. It's not rocket science to respond to an RFI. It is an offence to submit false or misleading information, which, if found to be so, has very serious consequenses for those concerned.

I assume you have already made an observation/objection to the application and it will do no harm to any possible appeal to the board if you feel strong enough about the applciation. Once again, have facts and no vexacious replies.....;)

snowman_tree

muffler wrote: »

You can make the application for demolition of existing derelict house together with a replacement house etc. There is an additional fee of €80 for the demolition and you dont need plans of the existing house.

Thanks muffler! so just outline in dashed the existing buildings on the proposed site layout to be demolished will suffice!!

amber2

Thanks very much for your advice Rayjdav, appreciate it.

muffler

snowman_tree wrote: »

Thanks muffler! so just outline in dashed the existing buildings on the proposed site layout to be demolished will suffice!!

Yup, that should do the trick - together of course with a bit of text along the lines of "existing house/barn/shed etc to be demolished"

That works fine here in Donegal but you know not every PA have the same requirements as has been demonstrated in various threads here. Maybe ring your local planning dept. and ask to speak to whoever validates the applications just to have it confirmed.

LoTwan

snowman_tree wrote: »

Thanks muffler! so just outline in dashed the existing buildings on the proposed site layout to be demolished will suffice!!

Ours went in as "DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING COTTAGE, ATTACHED LEAN-TO OUTBUILDING AND SHED AND FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW REPLACEMENT STOREY AND A HALF DWELLING HOUSE"

In our case the existing house was too close to the road for them to insist on us refurbishing it so while it was officially habitable (windows, door and roof intact) it wasn't suitable for renovation & extension.

Perhaps someone in the know could answer this... with regards to the "contributions" to the council that are usually a condition of planning are these not applied when there is an existing dwelling or is it only when the existing dwelling is being extended? (We are in Westmeath BTW)

rayjdav

Unfortunatley Contributions are now, as of the Planning Act 2000, part of each and every application.
Most Councils apply them for any development works requiring an official application. Having said that, some councils only apply them for new works and NOT extensions, (Waterford City Council case in point), where Waterford Co Co apply across the board...
This I believe will change soon as the lack of funding coming in to fund them is down drastcially.

muffler

A wee quick reminder to everyone. As the thread is so long and varied could you please quote the post that you are replying to.

Just a general request to everyone.

Thanks.

peter6

hi. im currently in talks with a local farmer about buying a site subject to planning in Co. Meath. we have agreed on a location and price, but i dont know where to go from here. i want to find out abit more about the site ie. planning history, what kinda house can be built there and what sort of chance have i got of getting planning premission before i invest 3k in drawings and test holes and planning aplication. because there is a chance i could be left with no site and 3k down the drain.

also should there be more than a handshake as an agreement for buying a site subject to planning. like if im granted planning and then he decides he wants more money or doesnt want to sell.

what people should i get in touch with first and all info is much appreciated

Thanks peter

rayjdav

peter6 wrote: »

hi. im currently in talks with a local farmer about buying a site subject to planning in Co. Meath. we have agreed on a location and price, but i dont know where to go from here. i want to find out abit more about the site ie. planning history, what kinda house can be built there and what sort of chance have i got of getting planning premission before i invest 3k in drawings and test holes and planning aplication. because there is a chance i could be left with no site and 3k down the drain.

also should there be more than a handshake as an agreement for buying a site subject to planning. like if im granted planning and then he decides he wants more money or doesnt want to sell.

what people should i get in touch with first and all info is much appreciated

Thanks peter

Peter,
A quick trip into the Planning office, locate your site on their map and, if there were any applications on it, there will be a reference number to same and you just then look at that file to satisfy yourself.

You can organise a Pre-Planning meeting:rolleyes: with the Council Planner, discuss your wants and listen to their comments, get copy of minutes for future reference, for what they are worth, but it should give you some indication.

You have an option of applying for Outline Permission for whatever house type you want. If you are granted, they must keep any consequent permission in line with the conditions attcahed to same. Best option but can be longer. (2 separate applications). You have 3 years to act on an outline (5 on a "full" permission).

I'd imagine after your handshake, in the current climate, he'd be stupid to try and mess with a prospective purchaser. Draw up a contract if it makes you sleep better......

A good local Architect or Arch Technician should be your first step, as they will have dealt with this on a daily basis and their experiences are worth every penny.;);)

There is never any certainty with the planning process, just keep that in mind:D

peter6

rayjdav wrote: »

Peter,
A quick trip into the Planning office, locate your site on their map and, if there were any applications on it, there will be a reference number to same and you just then look at that file to satisfy yourself.

You can organise a Pre-Planning meeting:rolleyes: with the Council Planner, discuss your wants and listen to their comments, get copy of minutes for future reference, for what they are worth, but it should give you some indication.

You have an option of applying for Outline Permission for whatever house type you want. If you are granted, they must keep any consequent permission in line with the conditions attcahed to same. Best option but can be longer. (2 separate applications). You have 3 years to act on an outline (5 on a "full" permission).

I'd imagine after your handshake, in the current climate, he'd be stupid to try and mess with a prospective purchaser. Draw up a contract if it makes you sleep better......

A good local Architect or Arch Technician should be your first step, as they will have dealt with this on a daily basis and their experiences are worth every penny.;);)

There is never any certainty with the planning process, just keep that in mind:D

cheers Ray

iv used the meath planning website and have located the site and planning premission has never been tried on this site so im happy with that. also there used be be a house there years ago but over grown with trees and only 2 foot of mud walls in places. will that work in my favour? im gona get onto the council on tuesday and try book a meeting for asap. really dont want to wait 8 weeks for a meeting like my brother had to.

Poor Uncle Tom

peter6 wrote: »

cheers Ray

iv used the meath planning website and have located the site and planning premission has never been tried on this site so im happy with that. also there used be be a house there years ago but over grown with trees and only 2 foot of mud walls in places. will that work in my favour? im gona get onto the council on tuesday and try book a meeting for asap. really dont want to wait 8 weeks for a meeting like my brother had to.

It should help you as you are working from a 'brown field' site and not a 'green field' site. This means the area was previously used for a similar use and pending favourable site characterisation results you should have a very good chance. A councillor may be able to help you out with the waiting times.

peter6

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It should help you as you are working from a 'brown field' site and not a 'green field' site. This means the area was previously used for a similar use and pending favourable site characterisation results you should have a very good chance. A councillor may be able to help you out with the waiting times.

Thanks tom all help much appreciated:D

jameswhite

Im thinking on buying a house but there is no conservatory if i was to add one do i need planning permission for a conservatory, i think i do but looked it up on net and its say something about if im building under 4ft with blocks/bricks i dont and if i go over this height i would. The conservatory im thinking on is you build the blocks up 3ft and it sits on to it its mostly glass so will i still need planning permission?

Mellor

Not sure where you got that blocks idea from.
A conservatory is an extension, albeit out of glass.

You can build up to 40sq.m (including previous extensions) as long as you meet certain conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

Class 1
The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension (including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.


1. (a) Where the house has not been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 20 square metres.

2. (a) Where the house has been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 20 square metres.

3. Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.

4. (a) Where the rear wall of the house does not include a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the rear wall of the house.

(b) Where the rear wall of the house includes a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the side walls of the house.

(c) The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

5. The construction or erection of any such extension to the rear of the house shall not reduce the area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear of the house to less than 25 square metres.

6. (a) Any window proposed at ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 1 metre from the boundary it faces.

(b) Any window proposed above ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

(c) Where the house is detached and the floor area of the extension above ground level exceeds 12 square metres, any window proposed at above ground level shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

7. The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden.

DAZZ83

rayjdav wrote: »

Unfortunatley Contributions are now, as of the Planning Act 2000, part of each and every application.
Most Councils apply them for any development works requiring an official application. Having said that, some councils only apply them for new works and NOT extensions, (Waterford City Council case in point), where Waterford Co Co apply across the board...
This I believe will change soon as the lack of funding coming in to fund them is down drastcially.

Hey how are you getting on do you know if the above has changed going for an extension to an cottage and received planning permission yesterday but they are looking for €7800 contributions, even though we'll be using the existing water connection they still charging for that.. should i question it seems abit high for waterford county

LoTwan

DAZZ83 wrote: »

Hey how are you getting on do you know if the above has changed going for an extension to an cottage and received planning permission yesterday but they are looking for €7800 contributions, even though we'll be using the existing water connection they still charging for that.. should i question it seems abit high for waterford county

Ouch... €7800 is not nice. For some reason, that we are not going to query, Westmeath Co. Co. did not charge us any contribution charge. The grant has been issued so there is no going back now

Poor Uncle Tom

DAZZ83 wrote: »

Hey how are you getting on do you know if the above has changed going for an extension to an cottage and received planning permission yesterday but they are looking for €7800 contributions, even though we'll be using the existing water connection they still charging for that.. should i question it seems abit high for waterford county

Yes, question it.
The planners report should contain the calculations as to how they came about the final figure and it should be possible to work out for yourself if the figures are accurate. Your agent should also be able to work it out for you.

gman2k

DAZZ83 wrote: »

Hey how are you getting on do you know if the above has changed going for an extension to an cottage and received planning permission yesterday but they are looking for €7800 contributions, even though we'll be using the existing water connection they still charging for that.. should i question it seems abit high for waterford county

who said we don't have property taxes....

rayjdav

DAZZ83 wrote: »

Hey how are you getting on do you know if the above has changed going for an extension to an cottage and received planning permission yesterday but they are looking for €7800 contributions, even though we'll be using the existing water connection they still charging for that.. should i question it seems abit high for waterford county

+ to Poor Uncle Tom above

It does seem high but if you are building a sizable extension;);), given the current rates, it would be "justified", as far as the CDP and Act go.
The planners rarely get the contributions wrong but by all means, wait for the planners report, which should be uploaded in the next day or so and on there will be the break down of charges. You are liable for roads/water and community so work back from there to your proposed works area.
I would imagine that your charge for the water connection is the fact that there is a proposed drastic increase in the water usage taken from the mains. I know you will argue that the same amount of people/same volume as presently, but it is worked out on a bed space ratio, like the PE used to determine percolation areas. Your extension is showing more bed space than the existing cottage...

Poor Uncle Tom

rayjdav wrote: »

+ to Poor Uncle Tom above

It does seem high but if you are building a sizable extension;);), given the current rates, it would be "justified", as far as the CDP and Act go.
The planners rarely get the contributions wrong but by all means, wait for the planners report, which should be uploaded in the next day or so and on there will be the break down of charges. You are liable for roads/water and community so work back from there to your proposed works area.
I would imagine that your charge for the water connection is the fact that there is a proposed drastic increase in the water usage taken from the mains. I know you will argue that the same amount of people/same volume as presently, but it is worked out on a bed space ratio, like the PE used to determine percolation areas. Your extension is showing more bed space than the existing cottage...

It is my experience that the planners get it wrong quite a bit....

gman2k

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It is my experience that the planners get it wrong quite a bit....

And they always seem to get it wrong in one direction.....

will3001

will3001 wrote: »

Folks

Neighbours are planning a new house in the field where their own house is located. This field overlooks our house and I'm not happy about it being built there. It will most definately affect our privacy.

Their original septic tank was built too close to our house and for some reason was never requested to be moved I think primarily because the council did not know of the existence of our house soo close to it. I'm also quite sure it is partly pumped to a stream running along the road front

We often have problems with water run-off from thier elevated site and I'm thinking an additional building will not help this.

I dont know if they are planning a new entrance but the distance between their origianl entrance and our is quite short.

So my questions:

What is my best course of action for objections. Certainly privacy.

The elevated site with water run-off issues would be a real nightmare.

If anadditional house goes up that surely means new percolation and or a second pipe running into a septic tank already too close to us and not working porperly.

Is their a minimum requirement for road frontage for a new entrance if they decide to do one.

Does it matter that the neighbours already have land not attached to their and not overlooking ours that they could build on but are not
choosing to.

Thanks for any info

Will.

Folks,

Raised this issue a while back, the planning has officially gone in and would like the oppertunity to discuss it with someone in the know regarding percolation areas, privacy, light etc. Any thougts voulenteers..

I can obviously now provide more detail on the plan.

Thamks
Will.

rayjdav

Will,
Throw it open to the forum. As they say, more heads are better than one?:D:D

Alternativly, get a local AT to visit site and then they can/will give you a case specific response to your queries..;);)

will3001

rayjdav wrote: »

Will,
Throw it open to the forum. As they say, more heads are better than one?:D:D

Alternativly, get a local AT to visit site and then they can/will give you a case specific response to your queries..;);)

OK will do, I'll gather my info and post tomorrow!

will3001

Right so looking for some comments here

As previously mentioned neighbours have application in to build house for his son right next door. See map attached

Site outline in blue and our house to the right of that. The house is to go where the dot is and a percolation area will be out in front of it towards the south. They are planning to move an old entrance situated towards the south of the buils further west and build a new entrance for the site.

Their site is elevated approximately 4-5 feet in relation to ours. His planning map does not show our garage attached to our house and as such make his build look further away from ours.

His new build will be on top of or at least very close to a septic tank that is to be decomissioned. This tank was originally too close to our house but the council never forced him to move it. We always felt it never worked properly as there was a smell from it and we wondering how two new percolation sites could have passed for this new build, i.e. one for the old residence since the old tank is being decomissioned and the other for the new build.

I can't also imagine how they would be allowed squeeze in another entrance. That would make 4 including ours in the space of about 100m along the road.

I'd be intersted to know how far the percolation are need to be from any dwelling and how big it need to be. Also with the percolation area being elevated with respect to our site won't there be an issue of seepage down to the elevated ditch.

any comments appreciated

Will.

RKQ

I'd need to see the Site Plan to fully assess what you are saying.
Any objection must be based on planning law - so factors like loss of privacy, sewerage / possible pollution of your well, road safety - number of entrances / sightlines, ribbon development etc are valid.

Any new percolation area which is uphill of your well, might pollute same.

will3001

PM sent

antiskeptic

There's a row of 1930's semi-d's up my way, one of which is in the process of having external insulation installed to the front. From an aesthetic point of view, it strikes me as astounding that you would be permitted to carry out such work - what with the building standing out (literally) from it's neighbours. Doubtlessly it'll be finished in something other than the pebble dash of the original.

Would planning permission be required for such a modification to the facade of a building. And could you expect it to be granted?

rayjdav

will3001 wrote: »

Their site is elevated approximately 4-5 feet in relation to ours. His planning map does not show our garage attached to our house and as such make his build look further away from ours.

His new build will be on top of or at least very close to a septic tank that is to be decomissioned. This tank was originally too close to our house but the council never forced him to move it. We always felt it never worked properly as there was a smell from it and we wondering how two new percolation sites could have passed for this new build, i.e. one for the old residence since the old tank is being decomissioned and the other for the new build.

I can't also imagine how they would be allowed squeeze in another entrance. That would make 4 including ours in the space of about 100m along the road.

I'd be intersted to know how far the percolation are need to be from any dwelling and how big it need to be. Also with the percolation area being elevated with respect to our site won't there be an issue of seepage down to the elevated ditch. .

Will,
The repositioning and decommissioning of the the existing septic tank is allowable, more than likely on the promise that it will HAVE TO BE contained within the curtilage of the existing "old" site, ie in the red cross hatch site to the west. Unlikely that the council will allow shared use of lands for this purpose. The new site percolation area will obviously have had, and passed?? the EPA test, as councils dont usually let the old SR6:1991 test go through anymore. This will have to take account of many factors, including your well (if any). Have a look at the planning file and satisfy yourself that all as noted is correct. If you dont understand the file, well worth hiring a local AT to do it for you...

As RKQ said, if you could scan a site plan it would let us have more additional info to offer you.

Without dimensions, on first look, I cant see how loss of privacy/light could be valid arguments..?? There appears to be mature planting/trees to the boundary presently.

Re the entrance, council may be more favourable towards a shared entrance between existing/new site, depending on the catagory of the road, National/Regional/Local.

Also, from scan, sightlines would appear to be available, once again depending on road status.

What would you see as your main concerns regarding this development?
Is it possible to discuss with applicant, as you are neighbours in a rural setting. Seen this before and when application granted and built, very bad feeling between neighbours for eternity:eek: