[Article] Traffic poll shows need for Mayo rail link

OTK

dowlingm wrote:

OTK - the interconnector means ..

Yes I understand the interconnector's benefits. I was quoting from Olivia Mitchell because I was taken aback that she didn't get it. Her answer showed that she didn't understand that joining lines and improving frequencies would attract additional passengers - she just saw it as a convenience to the existing users. Yet despite failing to see any of the benefits she still supported the project!

dermo88

I have written this on Platform11 and on Irish railway news. I will address the attitude of Fine Gael towards railways, which has been one of pure neglect, hostility and corporate vandalism of the highest order

The only document you need to read as regards Fine Gael's opinions on rail transport is their 1984 election manifesto. In Building on reality, they clearly stated "No new investment in the railways", and a commitment to an "Intercity bus network".

Their last Transport Minister was one, Mr Michael Lowry. He dismissed Dermot O'Leary, who was appointed beforehand, and interfered with CIE management in a hostile and aggressive manner. This was pure vindictive political opportunism of the highest order. Lowry has never been held to account for his behaviour. One suicide also took place, but we will never know why Michael O'Donnell killed himself, he took his secrets to the grave.

Fine Gael abandoned the extension of the DART to Tallaght, to the suburbs, and the Interconnector, which has been proposed since 1975 in the Voorhees report. This proposed extending the DART tio Clondalkin, to Blanchardstown, to Tallaght, and the Harcourt Street line.

The same party, if you want naked political opportunism, went to waste 20 Million Irish Pounds on extending the DART to Greystones. This was to win a by election in North Wicklow in 1995. A 2 Million Pound DMU set would do the same job. IDIOTS.

The same Michael Lowry, also signed a contract with Eircell to allow IE infrastructiure to be used for telecommunications cables. IE ended up having to repair weakened embankments after this vandalism. Judging by his activities before, it is very likely that he profited personally from this.

Fine Gaels record therefore, on railways speaks for itself. It is a record of vandalism, neglect and interference.

Both Midleton and Dunboyne justify investment. Doubts (surprisingly) have been expressed regarding Navan.

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The Western Rail corridor.

I am glad Limerick to Galway is going ahead. I hope that they can also find the time to provide a more efficient service on Limerick to Waterford as well, otherwise investment in these regional routes will be wasted, and the Garrett Fitzgeralds, Sean Barretts, and Mitchells of this world will be proven correct.

A small conference took place in Claremorris yesterday, Friday 13th I glanced at it. Not many experts there, just a bunch of people who wanted a day off work on expenses, including the CIE Chairman (Dr Lynch) and our Minister of Transport, who would be far better employed turning sods of turf at opening ceremonies at Cobh Junction, Midleton, Clonsilla, Dunboyne or even Navan......but where is he.....yes, hes in Clare-effing-morris (actually decent sized place 3,170 (14,156 rural).www.cso.ie. One of the fastest growing towns in the West of Ireland). Unfortunately, he did not have the guts, or nerve to deal with the WRC problem efficiently, which is:

5a. The position, and the only way that this should ever be tackled is to do a very valid pointmaking demonstration.

1. Bring a closure notice for the Athlone-Westport/Ballina railway. CIE chairman walks up, gets file, puts it in computer, clicks "run", and up comes the nice little closure notice on screen.
2. Remind everyone there how close that actually came. In fact, he could pretend there was one about to be signed for it just after Knockcroghery, dated for February 1998, and in effect June 1st 1998.
3. Inform them that people in Navan, Monaghan, Midleton, and Donegal do not have railways, while they have plenty in relation to the size of the population and region.
4. Tell them that they have a choice. Either continue lobbying for the Athenry to Collooney branchline, or the closure notice for the Mayo road will be signed, sealed and delivered in a week. Remove the Westontrack website or else.
5. Martin Cullen walks on, and gives figures for the operational costs of the Mayo Road as it is, the investment in new rolling stock, the expansion in services and asks...."What more can we possibly do for a place with your population density"
6. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I will leave you now to discuss your options.

And I guarantee, the room would clear like a shot.

My God, they are a bit delusional about how big their towns are. So lets take a look at how big some of these places are:

Sixmilebridge 1,327 (2002 census)
Ennis - 34,204, as indicated by the 2006 census
Gort - Town 1,182, Rural 1,450 (Total 2,632) - (1996 census)
Ardrahan 375 (2002 census)
Craughwell - Town 358, Rural 1,169 (Total 1,527) - (2002 census)
Athenry - Town 2,154, Rutal 2,910 (2002 census)
Ballyglunin.......does'nt even count when I checked....population.....zero.
Tuam - Town 3,104, Rural 2,843 (Total 5,947) - (2002 census)
Claremorris 3,170 (14,156 rural).
Kiltimagh - Town 1,000, Rural 1,386
Swinford - Town 2,724, Rural 15,292
Tubbercurry - Town 1,171, Rural 1,894

VERSUS

Navan 3,742 / 23,196 (Town-Rural)....and not counting all the places in between such as Kilmessan (for Trim, pop 6,447/5,447), Dunshaughlin (3,063), Dunboyne (8,691)
Midleton 3,914/6,422 (Town-Rural), Carrigtwohill
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Project evaluation and comparison.

For the amount of population per kilometre on offer, Midleton offers a better deal than Navan at the moment, and Iarnrod Eireann were right to prioritise it.

Limerick-Ennis-Gort-Athenry-Galway is worth its while ONLY if the track has a reasonably high (70mph/110kph) speed limit. Otherwise, its not going to be much better than Bus Eireann.

And, when a Bus service is established on the same route, offering a cheaper fare, at the same speed and higher frequency, rail users can be regarded as some kind of old fashioned eccentric. Let me demonstrate an example from a developing nation.

I had the experience last week on Kuala Lumpur to Singapore (scheduled between 6 and 7 1/2 hours, 240 miles...actually took 8hrs 45mins), and after that experience my words are "Noone but a sadist or a trainspotter chooses the train over the bus". The bus, took 4 hours 30 minutes, had reclining seats, it was as good as CityGold. People are still going to use Bus Eireann if the competing service is cheaper, faster and more frequent, just as they do on Waterford to Rosslare, Limerick to Waterford. Its failing. Fix those routes first.

The people who want the section north of Athenry are the same, standard hand wringing beal bocht west of Shannon victim mindsets. Cromwell was around 300 years ago. The Famine, 160 years ago. Emigration, its over (for now). Get off the cross, someone else needs the wood. The others are rail enthusiasts who just want to take a steam train, or diesel trip from Dublin-Limerick-Sligo, and just want to do it for the sake of doing it.

Regular commuters won't exist. Tourists won't sustain it. In short, its a waste, and if anyone truly believes in the future of rail development in Ireland, this should be fought tooth and nail.
________________________________________________________________

There is only so much track that the engineers at Iarnrod Eireann can relay and rebuild in a year. Midleton will take 9 months to relay, rebuild and commission, after clearance and permission is given. Ennis to Athenry will take 18 months. The 3 miles of Pace/Dunboyne are effectively brand new. This takes 12 months. Navan, again, 20 miles, will be complex, more complex than it looks. It will take 3 years from Dunboyne. All in all, the engineers at IE will be tied up for 6 1/2 years with these three projects alone. Thats being optimistic.

CIE had the expertise of finishing these kind of projects on time, and on budget. DART finished under budget. So did the Dublin-Cork upgrade in the 1990's, OnTrack2000, Dublin-Belfast. But there are only so much resources, expertise, manpower and specialised equipment available at once. It has to be used wisely.

Chris_533976

Excellent post

monument

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I know this sounds like nuts to the people who unconditionally support the WRC - but this is reality, this is what works all over the world and this is the groundwork needed to develop viable rail and bus based public transport in the West of Ireland.

It's sad really, but people see large projects like the Luas and Metro etc and then want large projects for the west.

gobdaw

dermo88 wrote:

The only document you need to read as regards Fine Gael's opinions on rail transport is their 1984 election manifesto. In Building on reality, they clearly stated "No new investment in the railways", and a commitment to an "Intercity bus network".

I presume that they kept their promises, which must give you confidence to cooly judge whatever will be contained in their coming election manifesto on transport. Personally i hope it is issued quickly.
Any way, wasn't that the 80s, with the World Bank on the verge of bankrupting the country, health cuts, "Minister for Hardship" Tallaght stratagy, etc. A different Ireland, surely?

dermo88 wrote:

Their last Transport Minister was one, Mr Michael Lowry. He dismissed Dermot O'Leary, who was appointed beforehand, and interfered with CIE management in a hostile and aggressive manner. This was pure vindictive political opportunism of the highest order........

Michael Lowry...Michael Lowry....wasn't he the fellow sacked by...Fine Gael?
Can't think of many Irish political parties who sack their leading reprsentatives (if you exclude Charlie Haughey, Des O'Malley etc)

dermo88 wrote:

Fine Gaels record therefore, on railways speaks for itself........ Doubts (surprisingly) have been expressed regarding Navan.

News to me - any chance of a link to back up that statement?

Wait a minute, I've just looked at my calandar, its not 1975, nor 1984, its 2007! I hope you don't mind if I decide on how I'll vote on more contemporary factors?

OTK

dermo88 wrote:

I am glad Limerick to Galway is going ahead. I hope that they can also find the time to provide a more efficient service on Limerick to Waterford as well, otherwise investment in these regional routes will be wasted, and the Garrett Fitzgeralds, Sean Barretts, and Mitchells of this world will be proven correct.

According to the Clare People, Irish Rail recommended against reopening this section on the grounds of low projected passenger numbers (which doesn't bode well for the less viable portions of the WRC). Of course a line is not just either viable or not - viability depends on the quality of service offered as you point out.

anyhow here the Clare People article:
http://www.clarepeople.com/content/view/145/73/

Cullen ignored railway business case

THE Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen gave the go-ahead for the re-opening of the Ennis to Athenry rail-link, despite Iarnród Éireann submitting a business case stating that it would be loss-making and didn’t meet the economic criteria required for approval of large-scale capital projects.
Documents released to The Clare People through the Freedom of Information Act, show that consultants who reviewed the business case concluded that the re-opening of the line would be premature, but that the case might look more positive in the future as the population rose.
The Secretary General of the Department of Transport, Julie O’Neill, in a memo to Transport Minister Martin Cullen said that Iarnród Éireann’s business case gave rise to a number of concerns; the very poor results of the cost benefit analysis and the ongoing operating deficit which would be higher than the average subvention per passenger paid to Irish Rail in 2005.
Ms O’Neill also had concerns in relation to the modest level of patronage for the service anticipated – a projected 100,000 in year one rising to 200,000 in year five. She said, “This is equivalent to 600 passengers spread over seven services a day in each direction.” Ms O’Neill also stated that the rail-link had a poor competitive position compared to the Ennis to Galway Road.
She said that the expected rail journey between Limerick and Galway would be one hour and 50 minutes compared to the one hour and 22-minute drive between the city perimeters by 2014. Ms O’Neill said that the Western Rail Corridor scored highly in relation to non-quantifiable impacts, particularly by virtue of the connectivity benefits at local, regional and international levels.
Ms O’Neill put forward four options for Minister Cullen including deferring a decision on the project on the basis that it was premature and advancing instead the pace of road development instead.
Iarnród Éireann’s business case concedes that the scale of infrastructure costs along with the ongoing annual operating costs mean the projected passenger levels will not be adequate to generate a positive socio-economic result. The business case stated that the “economic return on the project is poor due to relatively modest volumes”.
After taking the advice of officials and consultants, Minister Cullen announced that works would commence on the re-instatement of the Ennis-Athenry line in 2007 with the line to re-open in 2008.

Skyhater

OTK wrote:

From this answer, Fine Gael seems to believe that the interconector will not attract any additional passengers to use the train- just facilitate those who already use it to get to a more convenient location. If this were true, the project would have zero benefit, yet she still supports it and just questions its priority.

That's a load of rubbish and a misguided belief if it's true. The interconnector will provide a massive increase in capacity and thus will attract additional passengers. It will also provide a more integrated system, thus attracting additional passengers!!!!
It is the most important piece of infrastructure in T21.... Blows Metro North, Metro West and every Luas project out of the water!!!!

dermo88

Gobdaw

It does'nt matter what year it was, or is. I've seen the damage, I remember the records. Every Dubliner, who wants to get from A to B cheaply, and quickly should never ever forgive Fine Gael for what they did, and prevented in the 1980's, irrespective of how broke we were. They could finance farmers and the CAP, they could finance Knock International. But when it came to financing Dublin, it was tough **** sunshine, and the culchies got the cream.

I have a few choice words from Mr Jim Mitchell

"The railways are an albatros around the taxpayers neck"
"DART is a white elephant"

And they are two. He might be dead, but his policies live on. I suppose one good legacy was the creation of Iarnrod Eireann as a partially seperate company.
________________________________________________________________
Michael Lowry was fired by Fine Gael, but not before.

1. Appointing Mr Eamon Walsh, and firing Mr Dermot O'Leary. Eamon Walsh had absolutely no experience in running a transport company. His appointment divided the CIE board for 9 months.
2. Allowing Eircell to lay cables alongside IE infrastructure. In so doing, the embankments were damaged by the cable laying plough used.
3. The DART to Greystones fiasco. Originally budgeted to cost IEP8.4 Million, in 1995, a DART was pushed around Bray Head and brought to Greystons in a pre election publicity stunt.
4. Mr Michael MacDonnell, a former IE executive was to testify at a case where Dermot O'Leary was suing the state as a result of Mr Lowry's actions. He committed suicide not long beforehand. If Ireland was an accountable country.

Lowry would answer for this, and more. But hes not answering.
_________________________________________________________________
The Labour party don't give a **** who they sleep with as long as they have power. They talk the talk about being the party of the people, but the PD's are more use to the working class. Labour are only useful to their bedfellows in the poor oppressed CIE Unions. Just ignore them, they are a waste of space.
_________________________________________________________________
Fianna Fail are bent and crooked, but they know how to get the job done, and keep the money flowing. Never forget that under their tenure, the biggest expansion in rail investment ever has taken place. If you looked at Irish Rail in April 1997, and looked at it now, there simply is no comparison.
_________________________________________________________________
Olivia Mitchell uses the meaningless word "support", which is politico speak for "do nothing". When they say "commit", then it usually means action.

Transport21 Fan

Good posts there dermo, glad to see you are still around.

I agree with everything you say on this thread. Although what FG did to railways in this country was in the past, it just can't be ignored as if it never happened either, and would be dangerous folly to assume they would not revert back to their traditional "no further investment in rail" carry on if the ended up in Government. Oliva Mitchell's comments on the Interconnector tells me that culture is still there.

As for the WRC. I have nothing against West=on=Track looking after their own part of the country. The problem with the collections of railway bits n' bob relics between Limerick and Coolooney is that it is not a modern rail line and never will be. You can't get a quality modern heavy rail service out of a rural tramway/light railway north of Tuam. Not without spending incredible sums of money to eliminate the level crossings. Even to get rid of just the major N17 level crossings would require the railway line being elevated in the same manner as the PRR elevated the Long Island Railroad in the 1930's.

You simply can't provide a modern commuter service with 3 level crossings on the N17 just before Claremorris. The traffic implications at rush hour on a national primary route alone... and the compromise of just running 3 trains a day is not the rail "service" people in 21st Ireland are looking to use.

Now if the Tuam-Collooney section was engineered to the same standard as the Limerick-Tuam section, then we would looking at a real "Corridor" - but the 200 or so level crossings as soon as you exit Tuam station hardly screams "commuter heavy rail" to me. It'll never provide the kind of public transport the West needs and it won't stimulate economic development either (the south Wexford line hasn't). The whole approach of a train leaving Sligo or Ballina and making it's way to Limerick 5 hours later belongs in the 19th century.

It's not going to happen, or at least it'll be decades if it ever does and even then I could only see the northern half being opened as a Train-Tram style route. Which would be viable if planning and population settlement patterns were sorted out in East Galway, Mayo (yeah right!) and Sligo.

The idea of 20-30 services in each direction a day with tram-train driver-controlled level crossing operation and line-of-sight running is far too modern for the average WRC supporter. Shame really, as the more I look at the Northern Half of the WRC, the more I see a potential for some of it to be reopened as a Tram-Train service. But alas that's not on the agenda.

Zoney

Transport21 Fan wrote:

but the 200 or so level crossings as soon as you exit Tuam station hardly screams "commuter heavy rail" to me.

My Johnston's Atlas and Gazetteer of the Railways of Ireland shows about 19 LCs between Tuam and Claremorris. That's a fair few, but nothing like 200. By contrast there's about 20 between Athlone and Castlerea, a distance only a third longer, on the Westport/Ballina line. There appear to be another two dozen crossings between Claremorris and Collooney. Certainly not great, but hardly a disasterous impediment to the line, considering that apart from the N17, few of these are likely to hold up traffic (indeed are many of these not similar status, i.e. very minor lanes/land access, to crossings simply closed on other lines?). Besides, at least one of the N17 crossings is automatic barriers is it not?

Anyway, there has been no decision to reopen past Tuam (indeed only Ennis-Athenry seems at all certain), so I think it is ridiculous people scaremongering about the northern section.

Transport21 Fan

Zoney wrote:

My Johnston's Atlas and Gazetteer of the Railways of Ireland shows about 19 LCs between Tuam and Claremorris. That's a fair few, but nothing like 200.

The 200 level crossings are between Tuam and Coolooney. This is the area of contention, not just the section to Claremorris. If it's not 200, then it's something like 190 or so - a huge number.

Zoney wrote:

By contrast there's about 20 between Athlone and Castlerea, a distance only a third longer, on the Westport/Ballina line.

There is a major difference between a rail line going to Dublin in terms of attacting passengers compared to one going to Claremorris from Athenry.

Palerail is the golden boy of Inter-City rail travel in this country and always will be. Regional rail is not an Irish thing. Our population is not geared towards it working anyways. Too many small towns, too spread out. It's a recipe for failure in terms of gettig bums-on-seats and the proof of this is Limerick-Rosslare. Regional Ireland is made for internal bus travel and not rail. This reality cannot be avoided.

Zoney wrote:

There appear to be another two dozen crossings between Claremorris and Collooney...

I do not have the list on me right now but there is way more than a few dozen.

Zooney, I live next to this railway line (which gets way too much emphasis placed on it), I see it every day of the week and I am telling you it is engineered to a shockingly poor standard. Embankments which have washed away years ago, entire stretches which are currently linear mini-lakes running for several miles. Bridges which have abutments crumbling. It passes through many people's driveways and front yards. There is also a Car Dealership in Charlestown Co. Mayo on top of the tracks.

This is the truth of The Burma *all knell* Road. (say it in hushed tones).

If you want to come up here anytime I'll gladly give you the tour. Your mind will be blown by the reality of the line. Matters not that there are automatic level crossings on the N17. There are three of them zig-zagging across the road right outside Claremorris. You try putting a commuter service with any sort of meaningful frequency at rush hour. Grand for a freight train at 3AM in the morning back in 1988 - but not in 2007 with the traffic levels on the N17 in 2007.

People are negative about the WRC not out of spite because it won't work the way commuters will need it to work and will not deliver the West into the promised land.

Spend the money on rail and other public transport projects in the West which would make a difference. A Luas for Galway isn't a bad idea at all as it would tighten-up the horrible sprawl in that city, and neither is a rail link to Shannon.

The McCann Report is the best roadmap to deal with the WRC for the time being. The simple truth is there is no Western Rail "Corridor" at all. Somebody just saw a few closed lines on a map and joined them up and this being Ireland it became public policy.

Navan is where we should be rushing to provide commuter rail services. It simply immoral to the point of surreal that Ballygluinin (25 houses being built next to the station) is getting that first.

dermo88

Its immoral that the people along the proposed Pace to Navan line have to get development levies raised, when the people North of Athenry are getting it for nothing and no commitment.

Its immoral that the clearance of the Burma Road took place.

Transport21fan, I'm a bit against the whole anti-regional rail argument. I think it should be tried out, and viable timetables offered. Theres always some validity in the argument "Give them enough rope".

They have'nt enough on Rosslare-Limerick, since it has not been improved enough to be attractive.

Transport21 Fan

dermo88 wrote:

Transport21fan, I'm a bit against the whole anti-regional rail argument. I think it should be tried out, and viable timetables offered. Theres always some validity in the argument "Give them enough rope".

I would love for regional rail to be successful in Ireland, but I have yet to see one proposal or idea which would get the bums-in-seats.

The regional lines in Ireland are too long and connect small towns and small cities. Only Dublin, Belfast and Cork provide the critical mass to make such lines work and this is were looking at a line between Limerick and Cork might work.

There is a very hot rumour that a developer wants to build a new station in Limerick to the east of Colbert which would allow through running to the Foynes line and open up a whole new commuter service in Limerick. How about reopening the old line to Cork and have a real Galway-Limerick-Cork direct service? That to me would be a runner.

As for Limerick-Rosslare I see a direct Dublin to Clonmel service either by the Junction or Waterford to be the only realistic way to make that line take off. Maybe in time Waterford to Rosslare as a commuter route as well.

But it all comes back to planning and building up populations in towns and stop this one-off housing bull**** as it's murdering the potential of rail in Ireland.

Chris_533976

Transport21 Fan wrote:

How about reopening the old line to Cork and have a real Galway-Limerick-Cork direct service? That to me would be a runner.

2 1/2 - 3 hour service Cork - Limerick - Galway would be one of the best things to happen to rail in this country. It is MADNESS that it doesnt exist.

Cork - Galway???

Cork - Limerick Junction on train, bus to Limerick, bus to Galway, or train to Ennis and then bus to Galway.

or

Cork to Heuston on train, Heuston to Galway on train.

Its cheaper and easier to take Aer Arann from Cork to Galway, which if you think about it, its madness to have a flight like that for only 130 miles.

Cork - Galway needs a train, and badly.

Schuhart

Chris_533976 wrote:

Cork - Galway needs a train, and badly.

I'd leave out the 'and badly' because it imports the West of Ireland whinge mentality into something that might have merit. But certainly linking Cork to Galway by rail should be investigated ahead of a proposal to rebuild a meandering rail line connecting up some villages in Mayo at great expense so that empty rail cars can roll up and down it adding to our carbon emissions.

Chris_533976

Good point No whinging here, just common sense

murphaph

The people of Mountmellck have waited long enough for their Luas. Where's the justice I ask ya?

monument

Schuhart wrote:

I'd leave out the 'and badly' because it imports the West of Ireland whinge mentality into something that might have merit.

He says "and badly", but the two lads before him go into over drive and not a word about it...

dermo88 wrote:

Its immoral... Its immoral... a few bolts might go missing

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The Burma *all knell* Road... will not deliver the West into the promised land... The simple truth... simply immoral

Don't get me wrong here, I generally agree with a lot of what dermo88 and Transport21 Fan are saying but the way they are saying it is just as bad as the "whinge mentality" of the west.

In fact, dermo88's "few bolts bolts might go missing" threat is something you'd get from some people in north west Mayo.

[T21 - As he is quoted above I was thinking it was clear, but I've now changed - 'the (quote) threat' to 'dermo88's (quote) threat', and also move it into a new par]

Transport21 Fan

The problem is some of the old line from Limerick to Cork has a road built on part of it and was not engineered originally very well. On the positive side the passenger number would make an expensive rebuild far more viable than the Burma Road would ever be.

Galway-Athenry-Gort-Ennis-Sixmilebridge-New Limerick Central Station-Raheen-Patrickswell-Charleville-Mallow-Cork

Now that's a regional rail service which would be packed with Inter-city passengers, business travellers and commuters. Do the maths, the numbers are in the Palerail league.

Hopefully any upcoming CIE rail development plans for Limerick will see the potential of closing Colbert and moving the new bus and train station to site of Check Platform allowing through running on all services in and out of the city. Would be like a mini-Interconnector for Limerick.

Am I the only one who still can't believe Ireland is developing Claremorris as the rail capital west of the Shannon.

Transport21 Fan

monument wrote:

Don't get me wrong here, I generally agree with a lot of what dermo88 and Transport21 Fan are saying but the way they are saying it is just as bad as the "whinge mentality" of the west. In fact the "few bolts bolts might go missing" threat is something you'd get from some people in north west Mayo.

Monument, that was dermo88 who made the "missing nuts and bolts" comment and not me and I would be grateful if you did not include me in that particular statement. Cheers.

I would much rather support strapping Irish politicians to the tracks and run a train over them, rather than support any action which could endanger the lives of rail staff and passengers.

It is cowardly, feckless and self-serving Irish politicians who are the real problem here and why we are where we are.

Schuhart

monument wrote:

He says "and badly", but the two lads before him go into over drive and not a word about it

The difference I see is the ‘and badly’ could be taken as putting a spin on things where something is asserted as being vital without feeling a need to substantiate a basis. Maybe a Cork – Galway service is ‘badly’ needed. Maybe it isn’t. What we can say is that, on the face of it, it could make sense – which seems to be what the author of the post intended.

Transport21 Fan

monument wrote:

[T21 - As he is quoted above I was thinking it was clear, but I've now changed - 'the (quote) threat' to 'dermo88's (quote) threat', and also move it into a new par]

Thanks.

Dermo88 is my guru, but I do not following his teachings blindly.

Victor

Lads, funny as it might be to some, interfering with rail safety or tying politicians to railway tracks puts train passengers and crew at a safety risk. Sometimes these comments are understandable, but THEY ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE. I would like those comments withdrawn.

murphaph wrote:

The people of Mountmellck have waited long enough for their Luas. Where's the justice I ask ya?

Ah, sure they have a canal, isn't that enough?

Transport21 Fan

I am not going to comment other than bold the sections. You can make your own minds up about it. I'm saying nothing!

Western People 18/04/07
End of an era as trains go electronic - Cróna Esler

IT was the end of an era in Claremorris Train Station yesterday (Monday), as the very last manually-controlled passenger train left the South Mayo Station at 7.37am. Needless to say, the day was emotionally-charged for all at the Station and for two Clare-morris Cabin Staff, it was as though their right arm was being severed from them.

On Friday afternoon last, the last Norfolk Freight train passed through the station under the old system and although the trains will be back up and running in a few weeks, it will be a thoroughly different set-up, with all trains, both passenger and freight, being operated electrically from Athlone.

Speaking to the Western People, Claremorris Station Master Dolores Keavney admitted that there were many tears in the Station yesterday morning, as they waved off the last train. When the train reached Castlerea Station some 30minutes later, the signal box in Claremorris was closed for one last time and the signals severed and burned off, never to be used again.

Sadly, across the county, the jobs of 10 cabin staff are now up for question, as their services within the various Cabins will no longer be required. Nevertheless, the future for these men has not yet been decided and in Claremorris, the two staff members will still be turning up for work and reporting for duty tomorrow morning (Wednesday).

The new system, although state-of-theart, will be completely foreign to the staff at the Train Stations, where the manually operated system has been in place for 150years. The project will see all trains now being run through CTC and where trains have, up until now, being controlled from station to station, they will now be collectively controlled in Athlone.

In addition to the changes being felt within the stations, the new system will also see the gates becoming automated and so, the residents in the gatehouses across the country will also be out of work as a result of the introduction of the CTC Project.

For the next three weeks, passengers wishing to travel to Dublin by train are being asked to present themselves at the Train Stations 30minutes early. They will then be bussed to Athlone and transported from there to Dublin by train. The new system will be up and running on the May Bank Holiday Weekend.

However, although the train timetable may not be disturbed for long, this doesn’t take away from the devastation being felt in Claremorris Station, and indeed in each of the Stations across the county, where emotions were running high over the weekend.

Transport21 Fan

Victor wrote:

tying politicians to railway tracks puts train passengers and crew at a safety risk.

Victor, I think you need to go make yourself a cup of tea and sit down for a bit. Either that, or apply for a job as an editor with a Mayo newspaper.

Victor

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Victor, I think you need to go make yourself a cup of tea and sit down for a bit. Either that, or apply for a job as an editor with a Mayo newspaper.

What happens if the train hits a politician's brass neck? Easy derailment.

Slice

But think how much better a place the world would be with one less TD in it...

dermo88

I would like to assure the Fat controller at CIE and the Thin controller at the Ministry of Transport. that Evil Dermo will not be removing any bolts on Tadhg the Tank Engines little railway in Mayo and Sligo.

Thats if Santa ever brings Tadhg the Tank Engine a little railway to run on, and exercise his little wheels carrying Grannys on Free Travel passes, Pilgrims to Knock, and permanent way men taking the piss.

Dermo promises to be a good little boy, and as long as Santy comes to the little boys in Midleton and Navan before they get to the little boys and girls in Kiltimagh, Swinford and Tuam, he will be an even better little boy.

Anyway, Tadhg the tank engine will not be running. Karen the commuter will be doing the job instead. Shes blue and green and sexy see.

In other words.....I apologise for threatening to remove bolts. Its not as if I know how to do it anyway.

SeanW

Victor wrote:

What happens if the train hits a politician's brass neck? Easy derailment.

Good point.

Transport21 Fan

In the spirit of dermo's 'Road to Ramascus' like conversion and the deep emotional effect it has had on me. I too would like to offer this grovelling apology to the Rev Al Sharpton, the nation of Israel, the Iranian Ministry of Defence, the General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Part, Twink and the various rodents in my backgarden slaughtered by my cat and withdraw any suggestion I made that some unnamed Irish politicians should be strapped to a rail line and run over with a train.

Besides, if this was done on the WRC the politicians would have at least 3 hours between trains to make their escape.