[Article] Traffic poll shows need for Mayo rail link

Slice

From today's Irish Times by Tim O'Brien

A survey has found that 40 per cent of traffic in and out of Galway city through Claregalway originates from or travels to south Mayo, where commuters must wait until 2014 for a rail connection.

The results of the survey, conducted on behalf of Galway County Council, were released ahead of this week's conference on the western rail corridor, to be addressed by Minister for Transport Martin Cullen and Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Éamon Ó Cuív.

The corridor is a State-owned rail line stretching for 234km from Sligo to Limerick.

Statistics gathered last summer at Milltown, Co Galway, revealed that more than 9,000 vehicles a day were passing through the village on the N17 near the Mayo border. An average of 500 vehicles per hour pass through from 8am-8pm, with an evening peak of 400 vehicles southbound between 6-7pm, and 350 northbound in the same period.

The data, compiled by UK-based Golden River Traffic, showed that up to 36 per cent of traffic entering and exiting Galway city through Claregalway via the N17 throughout the day originates from or travels to the south Mayo area. This rises to more than 40 per cent at peak times.

A previous traffic survey at Claregalway found 700 vehicles travelled from the city each hour. Galway County Council estimates the real figure is closer to over 30,000 a day, when those who try to bypass the congested village by travelling on the "rat runs" are included.

The results surprised West On Track, the lobby group for the western rail corridor.

"It shows that Galway is feeding out as much traffic as it's pulling in," said spokesman Colmán Ó Raghallaigh.

"The figures mean that 2.5 million vehicles a year are passing through a tiny village and yet the people who live there have been told they must wait until 2014 to get a rail service."

During the same period last year, West on Track interviewed 200 motorists along the route, of whom 49.5 per cent were daily commuters. Almost 80 per cent of those surveyed said they would switch to rail if it was available.

Under its blueprint for transport spending, known as Transport 21, the Government has committed to reopening the rail corridor in several phases.

The Ennis to Athenry section is due to open in December 2008 with seven trains a day. The Athenry to Tuam section is next, scheduled to carry passengers by 2011. The line to Claremorris will not reopen until 2014 under the plan. No date has been set for the completion of the corridor to Collooney in Sligo.

Mr Ó Raghallaigh said that of the €16 billion spending provided for in Transport 21, €907 million, or 5.5 per cent, was for projects in the west. One-third of that funding would go towards the rail corridor.

"If they can open 36 miles of rail between Ennis and Athenry in a year and a half, why is it taking eight years to open the 34 miles between Athenry and Claremorris?" asked the teacher from Claremorris.

"We have to get real about this and stop pussyfooting around. If there was a political will, the line to Tuam could be opened within six months of Athenry, as there's no level crossings."

The conference takes place in the McWilliam Park Hotel, Claremorris, next Friday

Whatever about the WRC - 5.5% for the West is quite a shocking figure really.

MarkoP11

During the same period last year, West on Track interviewed 200 motorists along the route, of whom 49.5 per cent were daily commuters. Almost 80 per cent of those surveyed said they would switch to rail if it was available

So 50% of 200 is 100 and 80% of that is 80 hardly a large number of passengers but the WRC crew miss one important issue accessibilty

Everyone would use the train if it was
a) Quicker than the bus/car
b) Ran at exactly the time to suit them personally
c) Offered a door to door or as near as

This works in Dublin on the Luas/DART and to a lesser extent on Maynooth/Drogheda

Redo the survey and eliminate all motorists whose place of work is within 10 walk minutes of either Oranmore or Erye Square

Money isn't everything, the Cork Suburban rail project will cost about 175 million all in and generate 8 million extra journeys and run at a profit, the costs are lower outside Dublin since you don't need to resort to complex engineering and expensive land

Transport21 Fan

Slice wrote:

Whatever about the WRC - 5.5% for the West is quite a shocking figure really.

That's a very valid point. As a resident of the West of Ireland I cannot agree more. It's a shockingly low percentage in terms of national infrastructure spending.

Where I take issue is that the whole debate is exclusivly centered around spending almost a billion Euros for a token railcar service three times a day from Sligo with Limerick.

Instead of that the West needs:

• An intensive commuter rail service in and around Galway which goes no further north than Tuam
  
• A peak-hour commuter rail service on the Sligo-Dublin line serving Sligo-Balisodare-Coolooney-Ballymote-Boyle
  
• An intensive rural bus service with bus numbers and timetables connecting with rail services on the Dublin-Westport, Manulla-Ballina and Dublin-Sligo rail lines.
  
• Dangerous rural roads upgraded and footpaths for predestrians extended from town centres out to along the ribbon development patterns for about 3KMs around all towns and villages.
  
• and most important of all; high-density town planning and sustainable population clustering around towns along rail lines and nearby N roads served by Bus Eireann routes

I know this sounds like nuts to the people who unconditionally support the WRC - but this is reality, this is what works all over the world and this is the groundwork needed to develop viable rail and bus based public transport in the West of Ireland.

If this is done in tandem with the timetable outlined in the McCann Report then the West wins.

If we just reopen the Sligo-Limerick rail lines for the sake of it (and this is very much the only agenda driving the campaign) then we are doomed to half-assed end results and the West loses out.

Mass Transit- not Rural Rustic Railways.

Victor

Slice wrote:

Whatever about the WRC - 5.5% for the West is quite a shocking figure really.

But there is no public budget for T21....

What percentage of the other €18.5 billion is the west getting?

How is the west defined this time? Does it include the 8 counties it previously included?

murphaph

The data, compiled by UK-based Golden River Traffic, showed that up to 36 per cent of traffic entering and exiting Galway city through Claregalway via the N17 throughout the day originates from or travels to the south Mayo area.

So it's not 36% of all Galway City traffic as the first line implies but 36% of traffic passing through Claregalway (less surprising). I wonder how much of the traffic into Galway City itself originates along the existing rail corridor, from places such as Athlone, Balinasloe, Athenry and Oranmore?

Slice

I'm suspect about how the 5.5% figure was derived especially when it's being spouted by a member of WoT. Also the West doesn't have any fix geographical boundary unlike BMW that could have been used as an alternative. Still, it would be interesting to see how the budget is broken down between regions and how it addresses the Governments dubious objectives outlined in the National Spacial Strategy.

Navan Junction

Isn't transport 21 supposed to be €34bn?

Raskolnikov

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't it completely pointless having a rail linking places like Claremorris and Athenry? Surely what the West needs is a direct link between major population centres like Sligo Town-Castlebar-Galway City. Instead it sounds like they're going to try and shoe horn the Western Rail Corridor on existing lines that serve no one and go nowhere.

Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic here but I think it's an outrage that towns with only 2,000-3,000 people get a rail service when there are places 10 times their size with nothing.

Schuhart

Slice wrote:

5.5% for the West is quite a shocking figure really.

Does this not just reflect that the West hasn’t got much of a transport problem?

• 75% of people in the West spend 30 minutes or less getting to work
• Only 1 in 20 spend more than an hour
• Average commute time is about 20 minutes
• 1 in 7 people in the Dublin area have to travel for over an hour to get to work each day

I don’t see the logic – cities like Dublin and Cork have the scale necessary to make rail based public transport feasible. How does that create a need to apportion transport expenditure by region and fund projects that just don’t generate the social benefits that justify the expenditure?

MarkoP11 wrote:

the WRC crew miss one important issue accessibilty.

Everyone would use the train if it was

a) Quicker than the bus/car
b) Ran at exactly the time to suit them personally
c) Offered a door to door or as near as

This works in Dublin on the Luas/DART and to a lesser extent on Maynooth/Drogheda

Redo the survey and eliminate all motorists whose place of work is within 10 walk minutes of either Oranmore or Erye Square

This seems like a far more credible interpretation. In particular the comment from WOT that 36-40% of the traffic heading into Galway city along the N17 is from ‘south Mayo’ seems to just illustrate what we’d say anyway – that the explosion in one-off housing in the countryside has created a car dependant culture that requires people to drive long distances to get to work. That kind of low density settlement simply won’t support a rail service.

Transport21 Fan

Transport 21 has no fixed budget because from what I can gather Transport21 is not even "Transport 21" as it does not list all the projects being planned. It seems to be a selection box of politicially astute projects from the DoT's stockroom put on display for the public in the run-up to the election.

The hints that T21 was not the full story have been coming out in dribs and drabs since it was announced.

Luas to Rathfarnham
Outer Orbital Motorway
Dublin Port Tunnel South of the Liffey
Phoenix Park Tunnel Route/Croke Park station
New deep water port for Galway City
New central station for Limerick
BE's suburban bus plan for Leinster
Knock Airport bus services
Athlone-Mullingar rail line
Docklands station to remain

Information is hard to come by as everyone seems to have their own chinese whisperers. However what does seem to becoming increasingly clear is that CIE is now talking a more active role in developing infrastructure and away from IE, BE and BaC managers and leaving the managers of these companies as administrators more so than planners. Not sure why, maybe it has to do with financial governance and project prioritisation.

Transport21 is real - it's not a PR stunt as such, but it's not the full picture either. Anything can be included and more worrying until contracts and orders are signed anything can be left out. Next decade or so should be really facinating to watch - especially if the economy wobbles big-time.

I also suspect that if a FG-led government comes in - they will scrap the Interconnector and the WRC. Bertie and his shower for all their mullarkey are beyond question the most pro-rail government in the history of the state.

The evidence for this beyond question...unfortunately...

Schuhart

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I also suspect that if a FG-led government comes in - they will scrap the Interconnector and the WRC. Bertie and his shower for all their mullarkey are beyond question the most pro-rail government in the history of the state.

The evidence for this beyond question...unfortunately...

I’m not confident that they’d cancel the WRC, as Inda seems to be giving commitments, and it is his constituency. I’d agree the Interconnector could be cancelled in the morning, no matter who is in power. Given its delivery date being off on the far horizon, we could well be here in twenty years time listing it along with the Tallaght DART line as one of those things that would have been great. However, I’d expect that empty rail cars will be rolling in and out of Claremorris to beat the band.

There’s just no non-gob****e option in this election.

Kenny fully committed to Western Rail Corridor, but no guarantees on swift re-opening of Sligo section Mar 22, 4:33 am

The Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny, has re-iterated his party's commitment to the re-opening of the entire Western Rail Corridor from Collooney to Ennis. Mr Kenny, who's on a day-long tour of the Sligo-North Leitrim constituency, says his party in Government would complete the re-opening of the first phase of the rail line as far as Claremorris two years ahead of the current Government's target.

However, he has failed to indicate if he would facilitate the entire re-opening as far as Collooney in Government, as he's not aware of the engineering difficulties which may exist along the line in County Sligo. Speaking to Ocean FM, Mr Kenny also said local authorities along the route of the line also had a big role to play in its re-opening, by facilitating it in their County Development Plans.

Chris_533976

Thats it, it wont happen.

Getting all those local authorities to co-operate towards a common goal will never happen here

gobdaw

Transport21 Fan wrote:

.

I also suspect that if a FG-led government comes in - they will scrap the Interconnector

Where do you get that?

Zoney

Transport21 Fan wrote:

If we just reopen the Sligo-Limerick rail lines for the sake of it (and this is very much the only agenda driving the campaign) then we are doomed to half-assed end results and the West loses out.

Mass Transit- not Rural Rustic Railways.

It's not sensible to tar the whole line with the same brush. Limerick-Galway intercity rail should be possible. Considering the high patronage of the bus service for getting between the two cities, a rail service should facilitate a) more travel between the two cities and b) more people to travel by public transport rather than private car (plenty of people are not going to bring themselves down to sitting on a cramped bus). There's enough traffic between the two cities to demand dual carriageway - and that is not merely down to regional traffic from the hinterlands (besides, a rail service will capture some of that with the stops in Ennis, Gort and Athenry).

Of course, a link to Shannon Airport (even if just a dedicated shuttle bus matching stops by trains - an unlikely scene in Ireland I do admit) is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Slice

I also suspect that if a FG-led government comes in - they will scrap the Interconnector and the WRC. Bertie and his shower for all their mullarkey are beyond question the most pro-rail government in the history of the state.

I wouldn't say it's that simple but if you want to be partisan about it I guess it is. Of course you'd need to overlook the demise of rail-freight during FF-PD's two consecutive terms in office as well. I would say the fact that FF have been in Government for most of the economic boom and a European trend towards investment in rail over road (especially in Britain, a country Ireland usually follows) has something to do with it too.

OTK

gobdaw wrote:

Where do you get that?

Olivia Mitchell, FG Transport person said in the dail on 15/2/2005

Ms O. Mitchell: I support the concept of the extension to the Docklands or Spencer Dock, wherever it may be. I hope there will be an early decision, as so many other issues hinge on it. I also support the notion of an interconnector from that station out to Heuston. However, what is the Minister’s opinion on the priority that might be given to the interconnector considering it is largely concerned with the important issue of interconnecting and integrating this system? It is mainly about facilitating people who are already off the road, out of cars and into public transport.They travel in from Maynooth or some other direction on a train. In terms of taking cars off the streets of Dublin, their contribution might not be as great as a metro or several Luas lines.Given that we are spending \1 billion on a port tunnel to clear the quays, is there a great deal of sense making it our priority to build a tunnel under the quays? Are there other possible solutions that the quays might now present to meet that need? I am only looking for an opinion, not the answer

From this answer, Fine Gael seems to believe that the interconector will not attract any additional passengers to use the train- just facilitate those who already use it to get to a more convenient location. If this were true, the project would have zero benefit, yet she still supports it and just questions its priority.

dowlingm

Zoney wrote:

Limerick-Galway intercity rail should be possible.

If Limerick-Galway service is as underpromoted and underwhelming in delivery as Limerick-Waterford or Limerick-Roscrea and stops at every crossroads then what's the point?

The low loads on the Mayolink service between Ballina and Westport should be warning to those who say "provide it and they will take it" - it requires marketing support and proper development strategies but Mayo Council seem to only mouth platitudes about the WRC but run in the other direction when it's time for them to front up.

I fear Galway and Clare CCs will be just as little help when IE start running trains up and down the Ennis-Athenry section, and they will start finding ways to blame IE for the unprofitability of the service they requested. Regional rail is a tough sell - it requires everybody on board rather than shouting "good luck t'ya" from the sideline.

dowlingm

OTK - the interconnector means a resident of north Dublin can access a workplace in south/west Dublin & Kildare or vice versa with 0 changes of transport mode. At the moment it requires 2 changes (rail-LUAS-rail). This adds two wait times and two embarkations/disembarkations. If it saved 30 minutes per direction per day that's 7 hours a week a person isn't hanging around waiting and walking to the next embarkation point.

Does this "facilitate" existing ridership? Sure. What else does it do?

* It encourages people who don't like making en route changes at all to use it.
* It encourages people to take local transit services to access the railhead instead of the car now that they have some more leeway in their commute.
* It opens up at least one station on the Southside which *currently doesn't exist in any mode* and provides 1-change integration with Green LUAS (via BX is 2-change).

In my belief as a transit using commuter, every time you make my journey more direct you increase my satisfaction with the service (after all embarking/disembarking with the usual pushing and shoving to get in/out is one of the worst bits) and increase my chance of persuading others to take transit. Thus there is every reason to believe that interconnector will contribute to substantially higher ridership growth.

gobdaw

OTK wrote:

Olivia Mitchell, FG Transport person said in the dail on 15/2/2005:
"Ms O. Mitchell: I support the concept of the extension to the Docklands or Spencer Dock, wherever it may be. I hope there will be an early decision, as so many other issues hinge on it. I also support the notion of an interconnector from that station out to Heuston. "

That doesn't seem, to me, like they will "scrap the interconnector"

http://www.finegael.ie/search/index.cfm

Leo Vradkar (06.11.06)
“It is regrettable that additional services cannot be provided through Connolly, however this is due to congestion and over-capacity at that station.
Once build, the interconnector will link the new station to Pearse, the metro at St Stephens Green and Heuston station.”

http://www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/29633

Frances Fitzgerald

“In summary I’m proposing a comprehensive plan based on both short-term and long term solutions……..
Long-term (2009-2016)
Electrify the Kildare line and introduce DART services
Complete Interconnector Tunnel under the city, linking Huston to the Docklands via St. Stephen Green.”

Seemsto me like support for the general principal and maybe giving it a higher priority.

Navan Junction

Don't hold your breath for anything better from FG or Labour.

Labour simply commit to new buses.

FG aren't really commited to anything.

It is irrelevant what individual party representatives say - it's the actual clear commitment of party policy that counts.

If all the promises that individual party representatives became reality, we would want for nothing

gobdaw

Navan Junction wrote:

Don't hold your breath for anything better from FG or Labour.

You may be right or wrong - thats an individual political decision for the election, but what i am asking is what facts or statements is the suggestion that a FG led government will scrap the interconnector is based.

Navan Junction wrote:

Labour simply commit to new buses.

That is actually false.

Labour policy document "Getting Dublin Moving" (November 2006) clearly state that Labour has committed to "Reschedule T21 to prioritise the rail interconnector and to provide for the early electrification of the Balbriggan, Maynooth, Navan & Hazelhatch Rail lines"

That is the fact of this particular matter, and not as you are clearly saying. We would do better by dealing with facts and not retreating into our own particular politicial prejudices

Zoney

dowlingm wrote:

If Limerick-Galway service is as underpromoted and underwhelming in delivery as Limerick-Waterford or Limerick-Roscrea and stops at every crossroads then what's the point?

That's a bit of a defeatist attitude, not to mention a gross exaggeration of the situation.

The situation is that a decent service frequency of 7-8 services a day, each direction, is present already on the Ennis line. It should be quicker journey time than it is, but at peak times, getting into Limerick city by road is not exactly hasty either. I have travelled on the Galway bus - the rail service will be competitive even if it is only similar to an extension of the current Ennis service.

The current Ennis service is in a radically different category to Limerick-Waterford and Limerick-Roscrea. I do not expect that a Limerick-Galway service will fall into the latter category either.

Chris_533976

The rail service wont stop at Shannon. That can take anything between 20 and 40 minutes on the Bus Eireann bus, depending on how many tourists get on, in no hurry, and anger the driver by giving him €50 notes. "Quit with the big notes, this isnt a bank" one yelled, quite rightly.

Citylink Cork - Galway are going ~2 hourly soon and are far better than Bus E, simply because they dont go to Shannon.

That said, the Limerick - Galway rail is needed, and hopefully extendable to Cork-Limerick-Galway without too much effort. If they could do a 2 1/2 - 3 hour service Cork - Galway, you're onto a winner.

Zoney

Chris_533976 wrote:

hopefully extendable to Cork-Limerick-Galway without too much effort. If they could do a 2 1/2 - 3 hour service Cork - Galway, you're onto a winner.

Hmmm... lets not talk about Limerick - Cork... not a fantastic situation at the moment, nor that likely to improve what with going via LJ. And unlike Limerick-Galway, the road option is to remain a goat track at least in part for the forseeable future. It's nonsense to pretend that poor transport links like that between two cities that are really located pretty near to each other don't have an adverse effect on commerce.

Navan Junction

gobdaw wrote:

That is the fact of this particular matter, and not as you are clearly saying. We would do better by dealing with facts and not retreating into our own particular politicial prejudices

Why don't you telephone the Meath East and Meath West candidates for the General Election and ask them is Navan rail part of official party policy?

You see, I have and I know the reality. Nothing to do with any political prejudices.

I am very disappointed with Labour policies re railways, and believe me I take no pleasure in that.

dodgyme

Navan Junction wrote:

I am very disappointed with Labour policies re railways, and believe me I take no pleasure in that.

Labour need to realise that bus travel is a pain in the a*se. I took them for pretty much all my life til I was 20something and got a car, by that stage I hated them. The car was great by comparison. However Rail travel is the best and most efficient and comfortable means to get around. Buses should sync in with the rail system but we all know that they wont and the reasons. I am not against Buses but Labour's cosying up to DB is stupid and annoying to most commuters who want the WRC or the navan line built

gobdaw

Navan Junction wrote:

Why don't you telephone the Meath East and Meath West candidates for the General Election and ask them is Navan rail part of official party policy?

But when, earlier, I quoted named candidates, you said:

Navan Junction wrote:

It is irrelevant what individual party representatives say - it's the actual clear commitment of party policy that counts.

but when I reference actual party policy, you want me to reference individuals. I suggest that you name and quote individual candidates, particularly where they don't support party policy, as you are suggesting.

Navan Junction wrote:

I am very disappointed with Labour policies re railways, and believe me I take no pleasure in that.

Thats fair enought, its your privilage. Its not true, thought, that "Labour simply commit to new buses". Their policy does cover rail. That can be addressed, but not by denying its existance.

I would again urge you to "out" the candidates who do not support party policy as you are stating.

gobdaw

dodgyme wrote:

I am not against Buses but Labour's cosying up to DB is stupid and annoying to most commuters who want the WRC or the navan line built

Wha..?

I don't think either rail lines would be affected by any Dublin bus services or lack of them.

dodgyme

gobdaw wrote:

Wha..?

I don't think either rail lines would be affected by any Dublin bus services or lack of them.

money has to come from somewhere

Schuhart

dodgyme wrote:

most commuters who want the WRC or the navan line built

I don't think many commuters have any particular interest in the WRC. Navan is quite a different matter. I don't think we should mix up sensible proposals - Navan, Cork, for the sake of argument, with the white elephant WRC.

gobdaw

dodgyme wrote:

money has to come from somewhere

The celtic tiger has fled? Our problems are caused by money shortage?

I didn't know that - I thought that the government has been consistantly underestimating the tax revenue, and was not able to spend it while at the same time not able to solve the national infrastructure deficit.