French Pull Out of Next Years HEC

LostinBlanch

Looks like Syd Millar has had an effect already. Now the clubs want to talk.
http://www.manchester.com/National_News/Clubs_seek_fresh_talks_in_Heineken_Cup_dispute-18113654.html

Representatives of elite clubs from both England and France have moved to calm the dispute over a possible boycott of next season's Heineken Cup.

Premier Rugby, the umbrella group of the Guinness Premiership sides, has written to the International Rugby Board (IRB) to ask it to mediate in the argument.

Dr Syd Millar, chairman of the IRB, waded into the stand-off over the weekend calling the prospect of a withdrawal from the competition "disgraceful" in a venomous attack on the clubs' stance.

His condemnation seems to have shamed the clubs back to the negotiating table with a statement from Premier Rugby stressing that it was now "time for urgent discussion on how to resolve differences".

"PRL has made it clear that it supports a new European competition inclusive of all countries and under IRB governance, which reflects the interests of all parties," it continued.

"It is encouraging that the IRB wants the voice of clubs in all countries to be heard and listened to within the system."

The climb-down follows noises from the other side of the Channel suggesting that France's Top 14 sides are also keen to avoid industrial action.

"It is a big regret that we haven't been able to come to an agreement," said LNR vice-chairman Patrick Wolff.

"But the French and English clubs are ready to sit down at any table and talk, because the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup is something very important to us."

Hopefully it'll all get sorted, and the future of the HC will be secured.

thebaz

LostinBlanch wrote:

Hopefully it'll all get sorted, and the future of the HC will be secured.

Common sense should prevail, as its really in no ones long term interest , to cancel the HC, even for one year , in particular N. Hemisphere rugby, if we want to compete/challenge them down under.

buck65

Blanco and the English clubs are only after one thing - more money and shares. They now realise that they are biting the hand that feeds them.Blanco for such a fine player is an absolute tosser. He claims that the French league is more competitve and harder than any other league but where are the French sides in this years HC?
Really Toulouse Stade and Biarritz are the only teams that can compete with Leicester Munster Sale Wasps Leinster Llanelli on a consistent basis, the French need this competition more than they think.

Snickers Man

So let's think this through.

The French, and English, think they don't need the Heineken Cup, so unless they get a much greater share of the loot from it (including a renegotiated ownership arrangement with their own unions) they can survive on the money coming into their domestic games.

The French, apparently, have a lucrative deal for their own domestic league from Canal +.

The English, having learned little from the hubris that attended the early days of professionalism, reckon they can attract more sponsorship money into their home league.

More money will flow to fewer clubs. They will buy up the best players regardless of nationality. The likes of Chelsea and Arsenal who in recent years often could/can and did/do put out teams without a single Brit let alone Englishman in them will be the blueprint for this brave new world.

The cream of Irish players (D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Leamy, O'Gara) will be snapped up as will the best Scots, Welsh and Italians. But the majority will not be invited to the ball.

Following the world cup, New Zealand will start to cull those least likely to be required for the 2011 World Cup from their team. Or should I say teams as they have two squads they reckon, quite reasonably, could beat anyone. A generation of superstars in their late 20s will start to arrive in England and France. They will be bought up for big bucks.

The Celtic domestic league(s) will be shorn of their best players and denied meaningful competition with the best clubs in Europe. Will Munster get another Christian Cullen? More likely another Eddie Hekenui.

The hope for the accountants masterminding (sic) this strategy is that, as in soccer, kids in Ireland Wales and Scotland will support Biarritz, Toulouse and leicester the way they also support United, Liverpool and Arsenal. That way they can claim they are still "growing the game" while restricting the outlet for fan's devotions to a few top-named clubs.

What a truly appalling vista! What a kick in the guts for those Munster supporters who have put so much money in so many English and French teams pockets with their travels around Europe. What a bite to the head for those who are scrimping and saving to redevelop Donnybrook and Thomond Park into sub-international grounds worthy of any of thier class in Europe.
What a knee in the gnads for those who have laboured so heroically to bring Italian rugby from nowhere to where it is now.

All these people ever asked of the bigger countries' clubs/national teams was that they play them regularly.

Now it appears we will have to get all excited about Bath playing Leicester nine times a season. We will have to endure an international season that is a procession for the big countries. We will inevitably suffer a fall off in kids coming into the game as their role models become more distant and remote.

Or maybe, just maybe, the brains trusts in England and France will realise that a stripped down choice of teams and more importantly a stripped down choice of opposition will kill the game more thouroughly in the medium long term than any boycott will threaten to do in the short term.

LostinBlanch

Well put snickers.

I see one thing about this meeting that gives me some hope, Serge Blanco is staying well away!

There was an announcement on the radio saying all 6 nations will be competing in the HC next year. The format has yet to be decided.

Snickers Man

Interesting speculation that the French Federation may try and scrape up regional teams from Catalonia and the Basque country to represent them. Would be interesting to see whether local fans stayed with the likes of Perpignan or any one of the numerous great clubs in the Basque region (Biarritz or Bayonne to name but the most prominent).

I think it all smacks of brinkmanship: the federations saying "if the clubs don't play ball, we can drum up newer teams. After all we own the sponsorship contracts"

Meanwhile the clubs are saying "Yes but we've got the best players. Maybe we can attract our own sponsors."

At which point, the struggle to attract the best newly available talent could become a real bidding war. It would be a huge irony if the career choices of superannuated All Blacks after the World Cup this year was the deciding factor in who wins out of this mess.

The best option would be to let French supporters continue to support their teams the way they always have, ditto for the English, while the Irish could get behind their provinces like they always have done and the Welsh can concentrate on their Four Great Clubs like they have always done and the Scots can make up their minds whether they get behind their new franchises like they have refused to do so far or let their rugby become like Irish soccer--denuded of all their good players and unloved by all but the most loyal and heroic supporters.

In other words: the basic structure that we have so far is working, is popular, is well supported and presumably is profitable. Just fecking sort out the details lads, and stop all yer messing.

psicic

One boon of next year is that if the Cornish Pirates and some of the Northern Italian teams manage to step up to a Border's level of rugby(or hopefully better) next year we might be able to consider enticing these 'Celtic' teams into a Celtic league with an updated format.

Anyone want to bet on at least one of the English premiership teams breaking ranks?

spanner

I really cannot understand how the french and english club snub their noses at the HC money, we now lose the chance to see the best teams in europe compete,
Anyway if they are sure thats what is best for them, then fine the rest of the nations should setup a competion and why not try invite some Argentinian teams in to play

siochain

spanner wrote:

Anyway if they are sure thats what is best for them, then fine the rest of the nations should setup a competion and why not try invite some Argentinian teams in to play

I see where your coming from but the only problem is most of the decent arge's play for French and some English clubs.

spanner

siochain wrote:

I see where your coming from but the only problem is most of the decent arge's play for French and some English clubs.

thats true but I am sure they would be able to produce a few strong sides to compete at our level, if the tri nations, england and france will not promote the game I think we should

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sangre

RFU you are considering legal action against the English clubs. Although I think they are more laying their cards on the table rather than wanting to go to court. They claim they're in breach of the English professional agreement (the long agreement?) which is a contract until 2009. There are also implications with sponsorship deals with both Sky and Heineken. It looks like they've a strong case.

Steffano2002

I read somewhere that the RFU know they would win the case but that it would take time and that they couldn't force teams and players to play matches they didn't want to play so I don't think they'll be going down that road any time soon...

buck65

Sacre bleu - I wish things would clear up fast so tired of it all now.

Sangre

Steffano2002 wrote:

I read somewhere that the RFU know they would win the case but that it would take time and that they couldn't force teams and players to play matches they didn't want to play so I don't think they'll be going down that road any time soon...

Well any case between two powerful, well financed organisations can take months, even years. Any final outcome would be well past the deadline required for next year or even the next.
While courts do offer interim relief pending final court judgements, they don't (or rarely) do it in cases where it requires certain parties to be forced to work. Such an order would require too much court supervision. Inevitably the most likely court outcome would be damages which I don't think is in the RFU's interest. They don't want to cripple the clubs.

Diamondmaker

Sangre wrote:

Well any case between two powerful, well financed organisations can take months, even years. Any final outcome would be well past the deadline required for next year or even the next.
While courts do offer interim relief pending final court judgements, they don't (or rarely) do it in cases where it requires certain parties to be forced to work. Such an order would require too much court supervision. Inevitably the most likely court outcome would be damages which I don't think is in the RFU's interest. They don't want to cripple the clubs.

Ha ha court specific performnace to play a rugby match! Like Bourgoin turning up to play Leinster a few seasons ago, what was that 76 to 12 or something?!:D

spanner

forcing the clubs to play isnt an option for a healthy comepitive competion,

I think the question needed to be asked is Have the French and English clubs got Legitimate concerns for not playing in the HC due to too many games and shares in the competion or is it that they just have no interest in the competion and feel the rewards are not worth it.
if its the former and both the clubs and the unions need to sit down and sort this mess and stop arguing with each other through the media because if both sides want the HC there is a solution

if its the latter I dont see any hope for a real competive european tournment anymore so we can all focus on our own domestic league and miss the chance to bring the game of Rugby Union to a larger audience

damnyanks

2 english teams in the final , 3 in the semi final. I think either A) the enlish team are far superior to us or they take it seriously

Maybe its both

spanner

damnyanks wrote:

2 english teams in the final , 3 in the semi final. I think either A) the enlish team are far superior to us or they take it seriously

Maybe its both

I think we read too much into this when one country dominates the latter part of the tournment, there is only four countries that can really contend the finals and two more so, so I dont think its a fair yard stick