French Pull Out of Next Years HEC

RuggieBear

but the french don't need to have an internationalist outlook...the irish do.

Rugby is the only proper professional sport in ireland and it is almost wholly supported by International games. Rugby in france does not need the international element to support it.

thebaz

RuggieBear wrote:

Rugby in france does not need the international element to support it.

I'm sure the french public would miss international competition , the ultimate prize in most sports is to be the best internationally, no international rugby no rugby professionalism , maybe semi-pro like pre '95 .

themont85

couldn't agree more with the majority of the sentiments above. The french and english club owners want domestic insular rugby with no international aspect. I dont know about anyone else but i much prefer different supporters,teams ect mixing. The clubs are greedy and being shortsighted fools, just look at rugby league very little international/euro games and its finances are suffering because of it.

siochain

Some of the latest

I know this is far from ideal but if this was to continue for more than one season, rugby as we know it is in serious trouble.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=97&si=1808561&issue_id=15485
'* Meanwhile, English second division teams could be entered in next season's Heineken Cup, said English Rugby Football Union chairman Martyn Thomas. '



Then why support it ????????
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=97&si=1808668&issue_id=15485
'Once the English clubs (PRL) voted to support the French boycott, the nightmare scenario was in place with RFU chairman Martin Thomas summing it up best when stating: "An Anglo-French boycott of next season's Heineken Cup could devastate Northern Hemisphere Rugby."


There is a glimer of hope, wait till you read the bit on the 'munster cow' classic.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/article1624042.ece

Typical French with their tools down attidude as soon as the don't get there own way. Bring on the world cup.

Funkstard

So do you all believe this 'the end is nigh' dramatacism? Will the clubs pull out for only one season, or will it truly spell the end of the Heineken cup?

siochain

its hard to tell, the English and French have good domestic leagues and can survive without ERC, the rest will struggle.

The could be playing hardball.


http://www.rugby.ie/news/story/?jp=KFEYMHEYOJ&s=examiner
ENGLISH clubs chief Mark McCafferty has questioned the need for any Rugby Football Union involvement in future top-flight European competitions.

Steffano2002

You're all annoyed at Blanco and the French Clubs for pulling out but if (and when) we have it our way, Irish, Scottish and Welsh teams will be much happier as their clubs will be generating much more revenue than they are now.

Why have the RFU organise everything, gather all the money and redistribute as they wish? Why not have the clubs do this and have them generate more revenue?

I'm a bit annoyed myself there's is no H-Cup action next and no Toulouse to support at European level but I agree with what Blanco is doing and fully support him. And I don't think we are anywhere near "losing the H-Cup as we know it"... :rolleyes:

thebaz

Steffano2002 wrote:

You're all annoyed at Blanco and the French Clubs for pulling out but if (and when) we have it our way, Irish, Scottish and Welsh teams will be much happier as their clubs will be generating much more revenue than they are now.

Why have the RFU organise everything, gather all the money and redistribute as they wish? Why not have the clubs do this and have them generate more revenue?

I'm a bit annoyed myself there's is no H-Cup action next and no Toulouse to support at European level but I agree with what Blanco is doing and fully support him. And I don't think we are anywhere near "losing the H-Cup as we know it"... :rolleyes:

Blanco and his alliance will kill the proffesional game in Ireland, Italy and Scotland if he has and gets his way ... we can not support a full professional league ourselves ... so this selfish attitude will make professional competetive rugby the preserve of 5 countrys ... its behaviour and selfish outlooks like this that proove professional rugby has a long well to go before it can match football, and rid itself of the negative closed shop outlook still riddled throughout rugby.

Chucky the tree

thebaz wrote:

Blanco and his alliance will kill the proffesional game in Ireland, Italy and Scotland if he has and gets his way ... we can not support a full professional league ourselves ... so this selfish attitude will make professional competetive rugby the preserve of 5 countrys ... its behaviour and selfish outlooks like this that proove professional rugby has a long well to go before it can match football, and rid itself of the negative closed shop outlook still riddled throughout rugby.

Complete crap. Its Munster/leinster's fairweather supporters that will kill the game. If they turned up to ML games in the same numbers they did to HC games there would be no problem.

LostinBlanch

Well the IRB are involved and it's getting personal now.
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=97&si=108751

The Chairman of the International Rugby Board has branded next year's planned boycott of the Heineken Cup by French and English clubs "absolutely disgraceful".

Dr Syd Millar also said of the president of France's national professional league - Serge Blanco - that "It is unbelievable that one man should be allowed to bring European rugby to this state."

He added "The Rugby Unions of the world will not allow 26 clubs to dictate the course of world Rugby ".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/article1629490.ece

A crisis meeting of the Six Nations will be held on Friday to deal with the ramifications of the boycott of next season’s Heineken Cup by clubs in England and France. Amid concerns that the world game is being undermined by events of the past week, the IRB will then call a summit of the top 20 countries to finalise a strategy to deal with what is being seen as a threat to the future of the sport at the elite level.

Jacques Laurans, the chairman of the Six Nations, has asked the chairmen and chief executives of the leading unions in Europe to attend the emergency gathering, to be held in either Dublin or London, after a flurry of activity this week. The RFU is due to liaise tomorrow with the National League first division about the possible inclusion of its clubs in the Heineken Cup next year as a stop-gap measure and the European Rugby Council board will meet on Wednesday.

Although the hands of the IRB are tied in terms of how far it can become involved in the business of a member union — for instance, in the RFU’s unending dispute with the Premiership — its feelings are clear. It will not allow a handful of clubs to determine the course of world rugby and the member unions are adamant that they will thwart whatever ambitions the top 26 clubs in England and France may have in that direction.

There is bewilderment and anger at what the clubs seek to achieve. Few can understand the motives of Serge Blanco, the president of the French league, given the concessions that have been made or offered, while the situation in England appears to be equally perplexing. Is it just about the 50 per cent shareholding in the RFU’s stake in the European Cup, for which many people might have some sympathy, or is that part of loftier ambitions?

The IRB accepts that the clubs are an integral part of the game in England and France, but they cannot be taken in isolation. The IRB is adamant it has a responsibility to foster a strong and healthy game worldwide, not enabling the rich to get richer. “Entrepreneurs cannot hijack the game for their own ends,” an IRB official said.

God only knows what's going to happen. Rugby has picked up so much good exposure since the advent of the HC and now it looks like Blanco wants to throw it all away.

Amz

The closed shop attitude you mention baz benefits the French, so why would they care that other smaller nations can't compete as a result of such actions? They shouldn't care,they make their money, their players make their money, the sponsors give them money because they're winning everything.

So tough cookie if countrys like Ireland and Scotland aren't taking the resources that France can now obtain because they're unable to compete at the highest level any more.

It's not really about the rugby to the top brass in such organisations.

RuggieBear

Jesus. what a mess.

Tbh, I hope that the clubs can be put in their place once and for all. The english clubs can't actually fund themselves without RFU help...not sure about the french clubs ,they appear to get very significant municipal funding on top of their sugar daddy existance but i'm a little ignorant of the french rugby tradition.

RuggieBear

http://www.irb.com/EN/Media/Press+Releases/070409+dk+millar+erc.htm

Syd Millar wrote:

The decision by the French and English clubs to withdraw from the European Rugby Cup has been described as regrettable, unfortunate and shameful. It is more than that. It is absolutely disgraceful and selfish to destroy a tournament which has developed into a hugely successful and special annual rugby event that is vital to the well being of European Rugby. It will have serious consequence for world rugby.

This decision is not about fixing match schedule congestion in France as was first suggested. Indeed it is difficult for the average Rugby supporter to understand why Serge Blanco has withdrawn the French clubs. The IRB made the concession of allowing the French rugby premiership (LNR) to play matches during Rugby World Cup to alleviate match congestion in the 2007/08 season.

He talks now for support for the English premiership clubs, he talks of respect.

What respect has he shown for those who have worked hard to develop this tournament into the excellent event that it has become? What respect is he showing for other European rugby nations who will suffer financial hardship with a direct consequence to player employment? What respect is there for the players who enjoy and want to play in the tournament? What respect is there for the supporters who have enjoyed the event and travelled in their tens of thousand throughout Europe in support of their teams therefore producing a great festival of rugby? What respect is he showing for the sponsors and media who have made their contribution to the tournament? None.

What respect has he shown for the French Rugby Federation and French rugby in a year that is hugely important for the Game in France as it hosts the Rugby World Cup in September and October? He says he has no dispute with his own National Union but why is he interfering with the affairs of another Union?

It is unbelievable that one man should be allowed to bring European rugby to this state. We understand that not all clubs agree. Is there no-one among the clubs of France who has the courage to say no, we will not be part of this?

I have always had a great respect for Serge Blanco as a player and a person but in this instance I can only assume that he is being very badly advised or he is being naïve and has allowed himself to be used by certain people in England not just to destabilise ERC but to support a challenge to the way club Rugby is governed through national unions and the International Rugby Board.

Remember this is not the first time the English clubs have sought to destroy the ERC as they removed themselves from the tournament in 1998/99. Some now suggest a new ERC Championship should be put in place. We don’t need a new one. We have one. What next, a new 6 Nations run by the premiership clubs?

The premiership clubs in the main are owned by entrepreneurs who are not used to and do not like deferring to governing bodies such as the RFU. They do not want to have a governing body which controls the Game for the good of all and not just for a handful of elite professional clubs. The most significant and illuminating statement as to the clubs’ true intent came in a Sunday newspaper where Mr Barwell of the Northampton club was quoted as saying: “We’ll run our own business and the RFU can mind their own business”. What does he mean? Indeed it is difficult to get from the clubs what they want as their objectives seem to change regularly.

Strong clubs are an essential part of a healthy Game. However, it is essential that a good relationship exists between Union and clubs. It is not too late for the Premiership clubs to reverse their decision and have the courage to do so and to show the Rugby world at large that they are prepared to work within a system where their voice is heard and has been listened to.

The IRB is attempting to facilitate a solution and in this instance we still have time to get around the table to find a workable solution. To that effect the IRB will convene a meeting later this week with senior representatives from the European Unions involved in the ERC to determine precisely what needs to be done to ensure the future of the tournament. This meeting will follow the ERC’s Shareholders and ERC’s Board of Directors meetings in Dublin this week.

The Rugby Unions of the world will not allow 26 clubs to dictate the course of world Rugby and the present situation has brought those Unions even closer and more determined to preserve the Game for the good of all. Rugby has progressed enormously over the past few years and will continue to grow under the guidance of the Unions and IRB who cater for the needs of all the Game’s stakeholders.

The IRB has obligations to all of its stakeholders and envisages meetings with other senior Unions around the world to allay their fears on the direction professional rugby is taking in Europe due to the actions of the English and French clubs.

zAbbo

Chucky the tree wrote:

Complete crap. Its Munster/leinster's fairweather supporters that will kill the game. If they turned up to ML games in the same numbers they did to HC games there would be no problem.

Perhaps if Munster put out a team which resembled their HC XV ?

Not really the issue, I know, myself I've found it hard to attend ML games.

Back on track, I hope it all comes back on those miserable French Bastards, I'd rather the RFU run things than any of the clowns running GP teams. This is not about players, congestion, tradition, anything, it's all about the money !

Steffano2002

zabbo wrote:

Perhaps if Munster put out a team which resembled their HC XV ?

Not really the issue, I know, myself I've found it hard to attend ML games.

Back on track, I hope it all comes back on those miserable French Bastards, I'd rather the RFU run things than any of the clowns running GP teams. This is not about players, congestion, tradition, anything, it's all about the money !

Do you mind? We're not all Irish here...

Chucky the tree

zabbo wrote:

Perhaps if Munster put out a team which resembled their HC XV ?

Not really the issue, I know, myself I've found it hard to attend ML games.

Back on track, I hope it all comes back on those miserable French Bastards, I'd rather the RFU run things than any of the clowns running GP teams. This is not about players, congestion, tradition, anything, it's all about the money !

So Leinster get the same attendence for their ML games as their HC ones?



of course..

Laslo

I think that if the Irish, Welsh and Scottish games are all so reliant on France and England then that in itself is a serious problem. Personally I'm all for the ML taking centre stage and seeing where we can go from there. Sure, there'll more than likely be a dip in quality for a period of time but it's better to take our chances and try and be self-sufficient. Provided the likes of BOD and D'Arcy don't feck off to France or England for a bigger paycheck.

thebaz

Chucky the tree wrote:

Complete crap. Its Munster/leinster's fairweather supporters that will kill the game. If they turned up to ML games in the same numbers they did to HC games there would be no problem.

Chucky i wonder do you really care about Irish rugby, from some of your previous posts i doubt it -- the ML importance is reflected in the attendances it gets -- its used as a stepping stone for the HK -- i certainly won't be celebrating a leinster win in it -- rugby has along way to go before it becomes an established professional game , and could end up flopping if the misadministation continues.

thebaz

Amz wrote:

The closed shop attitude you mention baz benefits the French, so why would they care that other smaller nations can't compete as a result of such actions? They shouldn't care,they make their money, their players make their money, the sponsors give them money because they're winning everything.

So tough cookie if countrys like Ireland and Scotland aren't taking the resources that France can now obtain because they're unable to compete at the highest level any more.

It's not really about the rugby to the top brass in such organisations.

If the French kill off the Scottish , Irish and Italian proffesional team , you have no competitive 6 nations , you losse 3 or 4 competetive teams from international rugby , and there is only 10 or so serious rugby nations , so international rugby and revenue will be hit . Short term gain yes for England and France , but long term , serious damage to the game -- it'll be like rugby league.

Chucky the tree

thebaz wrote:

Chucky i wonder do you really care about Irish rugby, from some of your previous posts i doubt it -- the ML importance is reflected in the attendances it gets -- its used as a stepping stone for the HK -- i certainly won't be celebrating a leinster win in it -- rugby has along way to go before it becomes an established professional game , and could end up flopping if the misadministation continues.

What?! I dont care about Irish Rugby?


your the one who thinks competition where most teams play 10 games a season is essential for the irish game.

The only reason its important is due to the fact that irish rugby "supporters" dont bother turning up to the ML games. If they did the HC wouldnt be so essential to us.

I'd say most of the italian players play abroad or would do. Its not like Italian teams are the elite in the HC cup either.

thebaz

Chucky the tree wrote:

What?! I dont care about Irish Rugby?


.

you don't seam upset by the impact of no HC will have on irish rugby , you rubbish the current Irish team , and its coach , when it is certainly the most successfull team i can remember, and probably ever.

Chucky the tree

thebaz wrote:

you don't seam upset by the impact of no HC will have on irish rugby , you rubbish the current Irish team , and its coach , when it is certainly the most successfull team i can remember, and probably ever.

Thats because i think everyone is over-reacting to the impact it will have. I cant see irish rugby going bankrupt due to one year of no HC.

Also, if the french dont want to play in it, why should they? Should they not be allowed make decisions that will have a significant impact on french rugby? Are should we just threanted to invade if they dont play?

I also dont understand why its just the french getting it in the neck and how the english have avoided all the abuse(i am sure its not sour grapes over the 6N's though..)


Most successful team ever? I honestly cant understand how anyone can say that. They have only ever won a TC. You do realise Irish rugby teams have won championships in the past and a GS?

zAbbo

Steffano2002 wrote:

Do you mind? We're not all Irish here...

Ah sure, what can you do ?

RuggieBear

apologise

zAbbo

RuggieBear wrote:

apologise

That was tongue in cheek, referring to his earlier post "Ah sure look it, what can you do?"

I'm sure he's not too upset, but if you are Steffano2002, apoligies

Sangre

I wonder if Heineken are considering pulling sponsorship. It would be a shame considering its probably the most successful example of branding in sports today.

A detriment to any rugby nation is a detriment to all rugby nations. We don't have enough to go around. Just look at what competitive competition has done for Italy. If true competitiveness is removed than all teams will gradually suffer resulting in lower revenue and finanace for the union (and the clubs). This is very short-sighted by the English and French clubs, but of course don't really care about international rugby.

Steffano2002

zabbo wrote:

I'm sure he's not too upset, but if you are Steffano2002, apoligies

I ain't but thanks

RuggieBear

that's better!:)

Heineken will at best cut the level of sponsorship as the two biggest markets are gone.

zAbbo

RuggieBear wrote:

that's better!:)

Heineken will at best cut the level of sponsorship as the two biggest markets are gone.

Would France be a big market considering their laws on advertising alcohol, hence the H-Cup reference over there.

It's a shame, but it has been brewing for months. (the boycott not the lager)

RuggieBear

zabbo wrote:

Would France be a big market considering their laws on advertising alcohol, hence the H-Cup reference over there.

It's a shame, but it has been brewing for months. (the boycott not the lager)

good point (i'd quite forgotton the no alcohol advertising rules/laws) but it is still a big market.

They might actually just completely pull out as not to have thier branding associated with this **** flinging