Denied Boarding for having the right documents

MadsL

More Ryanair misery

My wife is American, with a GNIB card. She had to make a over and back business trip to UK today.

The company in London instructed her to use Ryanair - needless to say this would not be her first choice. Anyway as this was a 6.30 flight, to save time she logs on to Ryanair and does the check and go web check-in - It won't allow her to use her US passport, but there is an option to fill in an Identity card, so she gives her GNIB card number, prints off boarding pass and takes it with her. The terms and conditions state "Each passenger MUST present a valid EU/EEA issued passport or National ID card at airport security and the departure gate."

Gets through security no problem - showing passport, boarding pass and GNIB card.

Gets to the desk and is told 'but the passport doesn't match your boarding card'
No, she says - I checked in online and used my GNIB card - thats my card here'
Oh, says Ryanair, we don't accept those...looks at her US passport...oh thats an old one...I don't think we accept those either (wtf???) you'll have to go back to the desk.

Back to desk - she's denied boarding, and made to fork out €75 to rebook on the next flight, despite having no bags other than a laptop case. She complains, explains that she's travelling on business to an important meeting and asks to speak to a supervisor. She is told that the supervisor is busy, she insists and is told that the supervisor will be with her 'when she is free, she's very busy you know' Supervisor comes over eventually and says 'oh, you are lucky we didnt make you pay for a whole new flight'. This is rich considering you have to pay €6 for the online check-in, and it helps the airline with faster turn-arounds.

Eventually my wife gets on the next flight.

Coming back she tries to check in - and is asked where her on-line boarding pass is..she explains that Dublin made her tear it up, Phone calls back and forth, 'well there is nothing on file about that, there's a €30 charge for a new one' At this point my wife tersly explains that she has already been charged €75 and delayed. 'Well, ok I'll be nice and not charge you'

To top it all off she goes through Gate to board and is told 'one peice of hand luggage' - 'I have one piece' she says... 'One piece including your handbag' - She is carring a very usual small clasp top women's handbag with a thin strap. This after the woman before her is let through with 3 pieces. After unpleasant discussion, my wife manages to cram her handbag into her laptop bag, walks two paces past the gate and takes it out again.

Who the f**k do these airlines think they are? Between baggage charges, hidden charges, stupid 8 page terms and conditions, it is getting to the point where you have to consult a lawyer before booking a flight, just to avoid having additional charges dumped on you.

The irony of not accepting the GNIB is not lost on me either - it seems this is acceptable ID to get you into this country but not good enough to get you out.

Rant over - I do accept that she made a mistake, but looking at the website it is clearly to see how that mistake can be made. However, the attitude of airlines these days seems to be - oh good, you made a mistake...now get out the credit card because we are going to take you for as much as we can.

Where the hell is the consumer regulator for these 'gunpoint' charges?

It seems that Ryanair only offers web check-in for EU nationals. And they charge for this 'service' - clear case of discrimination in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of nationality which is illegal under EU law.

When are the EU going to wake up to these antics on the part of the airlines.


:mad: :mad: :mad:

BuffyBot

I do accept that she made a mistake, but looking at the website it is clearly to see how that mistake can be made.

Yes she did. They're quite clear (I think) as to what is required. Ireland doesn't have a national ID card system like France for example, so the only other option is a passport. They can't, and shouldn't, be expected to cater for everyone's possible variations and misunderstandings of that.

They're within their rights to charge you, when they've made people aware of these charges. Gunpoint charges, they aren't. Expensive, they are. The fact slap on the €30 that they didn't would appear that someone there was trying to do something at least.

Now, that's not to say they couldn't do it better - but that's the way Ryanair operate, and thats part of life. Hopefully it'll be lesson to company involved not to be so cheap and force their staff to fly Ryanair (an airline I'd *never* fly on when business is involved).

I would highly doubt their check-in procedures are breaching any rules, either.

MadsL

I would highly doubt their check-in procedures are breaching any rules, either.

It seems that Ryanair only offers web check-in for EU nationals. And they charge for this 'service' - clear case of discrimination in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of nationality which is illegal under EU law.

This bit does...


Also these are their rules; Not all that clear - the GNIB is a card issued by the irish govt for ID purposes.

Online Check-In Conditions:

• Each passenger MUST present a valid EU/EEA issued passport or National ID card at airport security and the departure gate.
• Please note that the online check-in cannot be used by the following passengers: Passengers travelling with checked baggage or on the same reservation as a passenger travelling with checked baggage, Children aged between 14-18 years travelling alone, passengers travelling with infants, Passengers travelling with mobility equipment (including wheelchairs & children’s buggies), passengers with reduced mobility, blind/visual impaired passengers including those travelling with a sighted companion, blind/vision impaired passenger travelling with a guide dog, passengers who require special assistance at the airport, passengers travelling from Italy to the UK and passengers travelling on a passport which is due to expire within 30 days from the date of travel.
• Any passenger failing to present their printed Check N’Go boarding pass at airport security and the departure gate will be charged a boarding card reissue fee of €20/£13.50 per person.
• Passengers can carry one piece of hand baggage weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm.
• Hand luggage must contain NO prohibited items EXTRA RESTRICTIONS NOW APPLY.
• Passengers using the Check’N Go service arriving at the airport with hand baggage exceeding 10kg per person will be required to check in their baggage at a charge of £5/€7 (£7/€10 from the 1st September 2006 onwards) per item of baggage at the designated check-in desk and will be reissued a boarding card at the fee of €20/£13.50 (or local currency equivalent). Please note that Check-In desks close 40 minutes prior to scheduled flight departure time.
• Please note: We reserve the right to cancel your reservation, without refund, and deny you boarding, if you arrive at the boarding gate with hand baggage exceeding the maximum weight or dimensions.
• Passengers must be at the boarding gate 30 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time.
• Passengers who have purchased online check-in that subsequently do not qualify for the service in will be offered priority boarding onto the aircraft. All Online Check-in/Priority Boarding fees are non refundable.
• No further changes to the passenger name, flight date/times/route can take place once a passenger has checked in for a flight online.

Alun

Where did that piece of text come from? On the Ryanair website (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/conditions.php?pos=MYFLIGHT) it says ...

Each passenger must present a valid EU/EEA issued passport or a valid Government issued National Identity Card issued by a European Economic Area (EEA) country which matches the document details printed on their Check N’Go boarding pass, at both airport security and the departure gate. (See paragraph headed "Documentation" for details of accepted EEA National Identity Cards)

The paragraph headed "Documentation" makes no mention of GNIB cards, and frankly, I wouldn't have expected it to either.

Stark

So that means that anyone's who not an EU resident can't fly with Ryanair?

Hagar

Stark wrote:

So that means that anyone's who not an EU resident can't fly with Ryanair?

Lucky bastards.

BuffyBot

the GNIB is a card issued by the irish govt for ID purposes.

But it is not a National ID card. We're not all required to have one, as other European countries are. How are Ryanair to second guess what people will understand/not understand?

So that means that anyone's who not an EU resident can't fly with Ryanair?

No, it only means you can't use the web check in facility.

MadsL

So that means that anyone's who not an EU resident can't fly with Ryanair?

It means that anyone who does not have an EU passsport cannot check-in online.

Where did that piece of text come from?

It's the first piece of text you have to tick to make an onlince check-in
where you agree "I have read and accept the above conditions for all passengers using the Check’N Go service"

Notice she would have been €55 better off to have said she had lost it than to actuially try to check in.

Any passenger failing to present their printed Check N’Go boarding pass at airport security and the departure gate will be charged a boarding card reissue fee of €20/£13.50 per person.

What I object to here is the fact that having used the service and clearly made a mistake, she is not only penalised by missing the flight but also made to pay €75. It's not like she showed up late or drunk. She made every effort to be a little trouble as possible to them; on time, no checked bags, yet ryanir seem to insist on treating every passenger as the enemy - "Read em the riot act and if they grumble - make em pay a fine"

I mean seriously. would you not expect to be able to get on a plane if you showed up with your passport, ontime, no bags to check, and with additional photo ID?? Wtf is the problem?

BendiBus

It mightn't be right but Ryanairs practices are hardly secret.

Best option to get revenge is if the wifes experience can persuade her employer that an alternative to Ryanair is the better option for business.

MadsL

How are Ryanair to second guess what people will understand/not understand?

They aren't - but they also shouldn't make a profit out of misunderstandings, telling someone their flight is now cancelled because they accidentally gave the wrong information (and PAID you for the privilege) is mindboggling.

Also look at this - no idea what it is suppossed to mean:

Passengers who have purchased online check-in that subsequently do not qualify for the service in will be offered priority boarding onto the aircraft. All Online Check-in/Priority Boarding fees are non refundable.

priority boarding = pay us €75 and we'll let you get a later flight. Nice.

As to the National ID card thing. If a govt gives me a card, with my picture and name on it and says carry it at all times as a 'non-national' (as you love to call us) that pretty much smells to me like a National ID Card. Despite what Ryanair say..dont forget that my wife had her damn PASSPORT with her all this time.

Our man in Havana

Was the passport valid and in date OP? Did the name on the passport match the name ryanair had?

mathias

Trust me , Ryanair are the only airline that treat their customers like this , in a crude and frankly unacceptable manner , Aer lingus are nothing but courteous and helpful even when its bad news they have to give you.

Given their level of professionalism I will gladly pay the extra not to be herded , insulted and abused by that Brutal shower of animals Ryanair hires

I will not fly or do business with that Scumbag of an airline ever again after the way they treated my OAP mother on a trip to England once.
Stay well away from them.

MadsL

Was the passport valid and in date OP? Did the name on the passport match the name ryanair had?

Valid, in date, same name, accompanied by the credit card used to make the booking.

Shocking customer service - cold and rude.

Our man in Havana

MadsL wrote:

Valid, in date, same name, accompanied by the credit card used to make the booking.

Shocking customer service - cold and rude.

Well then there should have been no problem, except she could not use the online check in.

MadsL

Well then there should have been no problem, except she could not use the online check in.

Isn't that the sick part....

gilroyb

MadsL wrote:

To top it all off she goes through Gate to board and is told 'one peice of hand luggage' - 'I have one piece' she says... 'One piece including your handbag' - She is carring a very usual small clasp top women's handbag with a thin strap. This after the woman before her is let through with 3 pieces. After unpleasant discussion, my wife manages to cram her handbag into her laptop bag, walks two paces past the gate and takes it out again.

This is a UK security thing , not a Ryanair thing. That said, it is really annoying, especially if you have a laptop. They insist that the laptop be put through the security scanner individually, but yet walking up to the scanner it must be in the same bag as everything else rather than an individual bag. Genius.

MadsL

This is a UK security thing , not a Ryanair thing. That said, it is really annoying, especially if you have a laptop. They insist that the laptop be put through the security scanner individually, but yet walking up to the scanner it must be in the same bag as everything else rather than an individual bag. Genius.

It was boarding, and to do with the number of items of hand luggage.

Note Devore's blog where he threw everything into a bin bag he got from a cleaner to satisfy this stupid rule.

Victor

BuffyBot wrote:

But it is not a National ID card.

Jokingly, its Non-National ID card. Of course, if Ryanair want to insist on a "Government issued National Identity Card" they should define what ones are acceptable.

As I understand it, ID is inisted upon by:
* Airport security / Police for security purposes.
* Immigration for immigration purposes.
* Airlines for revenue protection purposes (to discourage people buying cheap fares and selling them on to other people later).

All conditions are complied with.

If Ryanair want only certain groups to check in on-line, then their system should only accept number formats that match those IDs. So for on-line check-in:

---

Q1. What country issued your ID?
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom

Q2. You have selected Ireland, what type of identification are you presenting?
Passport (no other ID accepted)

Q3. You have selected Passport, please enter your Passport number?
__________

If you do not have the above type of identification, you are not allowed use on-line check-in.

---

How are Ryanair to second guess what people will understand/not understand?

Because they handle millions of people every year and are professionals paid to do their jobs properly?

Don't laugh

lostexpectation

It won't allow her to use her US passport

so does the gov have a natioanl id available if you want (to pay ) for one?

why couldn't she her passport. cos it wasn't EU one?

since when did you need to european to fly to the UK?

BostonB

MadsL wrote:

....she logs on to Ryanair and does the check and go web check-in - It won't allow her to use her US passport...

Does "passenger must present a valid EU/EEA issued passport" mean that only EU passengers can use web check-in?

Our man in Havana

excatly!

BostonB

Seems like a great excuse to say to your company you can't use RA and go with someone who might actually help you get a flight instead of trying to bump you off flights in order to charge you more.

WUSBDesign

The GNIB card is *not* an ID card - this is clearly stated on the back of the GNIB card itself. On occasions, I have tried to push it as as ID - once while collecting a package from a PO - but I am leaving this to luck.

talkingclock

Stark wrote:

So that means that anyone's who not an EU resident can't fly with Ryanair?

I had a friend from Chile here and we managed to book and take a Ryanair flight from Shannon to Paris and back with his colourful southamerican passport. Desk staff was very interested in his passport

penexpers

mathias wrote:

Aer lingus are nothing but courteous and helpful even when its bad news they have to give you.

Aer Lingus can be pretty cold when they want to be.

BuffyBot

Because they handle millions of people every year and are professionals paid to do their jobs properly?

But how far should they go. List every kind of possible thing people might consider valid ID. They've named the two things they accept for web-check in, which seems pretty clear to me.

therecklessone

lostexpectation wrote:

why couldn't she her passport. cos it wasn't EU one?

since when did you need to european to fly to the UK?

talkingclock wrote:

I had a friend from Chile here and we managed to book and take a Ryanair flight from Shannon to Paris and back with his colourful southamerican passport. Desk staff was very interested in his passport

Just to point out, as the OP stated in his first post the restriction is on use of Ryanair's online check-in facility. The only passports accepted for online check-in are EU/EEA passports.

grahamo

How do Ryanair get away with it? They treat their customers like sh** and get away with it! What's even worse is people on the forum are backing them up????

therecklessone

grahamo wrote:

How do Ryanair get away with it? They treat their customers like sh** and get away with it! What's even worse is people on the forum are backing them up????

Because 90%+ of people who travel with them experience no problems, and so have no complaints. Is it really that hard to grasp?

Our man in Havana

Every rule is in their terms and conditions. You have to agree to them in order to book a flight. If you can't be bothered to (a) read them and (b) abide by them, that's your tough luck.

Enigma365

However, the attitude of airlines these days seems to be - oh good, you made a mistake...now get out the credit card because we are going to take you for as much as we can.

That's true.

I take it that by the time she got back to the check in desk, she had missed the original flight?

kmick

Three quick points
1) Ryanair customer service is bad - if you have to fly them, pray nothing goes wrong or you are in trouble.
2) US customers cannot use the speed check-in facility - you know this now. dont get caught again. You might as well let the last incident go you wont get any satisfaction from Ryanair customer service (this you know).
3) I hear they take your fingerprints when you travel to the US. So Europeans are treated as criminals there. The point I'm trying to make is all areas have different crazy rules. Beaurocrats are there to make our lives impossible. That is their job.

Zoney

therecklessone wrote:

Because 90%+ of people who travel with them experience no problems, and so have no complaints. Is it really that hard to grasp?

That's the same attitude responsible for the Galway water crisis not being considered a national emergency like it would be in any sensible country.

There's too much of this "ah sure I haven't been affected myself" nonsense.

Does anyone care about anybody but themselves in Ireland today? If you reckon nearly 10% of people have had bad experiences, that's more than enough to condemn the airline.

MadsL

therecklessone wrote:

Just to point out, as the OP stated in his first post the restriction is on use of Ryanair's online check-in facility. The only passports accepted for online check-in are EU/EEA passports.

Clarification - spoke with Office of Consumer Affairs today - who spoke to Ryanair. Ryanair claim that the can only check passports at the desk. As EU passengers don't need them (eh? we aren't signed up to Schengen as has been pointed out) they cannot check passports at the Gate (which they in fact do - apparantly only for identification purposes) They claim they have been fined in the past for allowing passengers to fly with incorrect visas/passports etc.

All make sense.

Except Aer Lingus allow any nationality to print a boarding card and go directly to the gate. So....hmmm????

Might still try to do them under Equality and Equal States Act - descrimination in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of nationality. Mucho illegal under EU and Irish law.

Our man in Havana

Good luck with that. MOL has pretty deep pockets and would fight you all the way.

MadsL

Good luck with that. MOL has pretty deep pockets and would fight you all the way.

Equality Authority also have teeth, far more so than any other *cough* regulator in this country. Not a question of pockets.

goingnowhere

There is logic to this.

If you hold an EEA passport or ID you can travel without restriction anywhere in the EU and Ryanair operates very very few flights outside the EU

If someone travels on a non EU document they may be refused permission to enter by immigration, if that occurs Ryanair is legally obliged, at its own cost to return the passenger to the point of origin as soon as possible.

Forcing the passenger to present the passport in advance before bags are checked in allows for a visa check to confirm the passenger has the documentation needed.

Of course its not fair but its just another Ryanair business process to protect itself from additional cost.

Aer Lingus and most other carriers don't enforce a requirement and are willing to take the risk

Victor

Thread split to http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057058994

Please don't drag up 6 year old threads to post off-topic.

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