"Buddhist Boards i.e Beers"

Asiaprod

MeditationMom wrote:

So there are really several issues here.
One - is meat eating OK for a Buddhist according to Buddhist teachings of compassion? Asiaprod has answered that question well, both personally and in general.

Hum, I was actually referring to Intoxicants, not meat. Meat is another issue in that I too am against causing suffering. I can justify eating meat to myself, but I still want my dinner to arrive on my plate knowing that the meat was treated with respect. Here is another interesting fact concerning meat. In Tibet meat is forbidden by the Dali Lama, however, the herdsmen that tend livestock higher in the mountains have a dispensation from the Dali Lama to eat fish as they need the protein and food is hard to come by at these altitudes.
I think once again I have to say the issue is not the killing of the animals for meat, but the compassion, respect and care for these animals well being. I am totally with Maitri in her desire to bring this type of abuse to the attention of the public. I am very lucky in that Japan is very strict on the abuse of livestock, remember that it is a Shinto country and respect for animals is part of that path. Also, I do not gorge myself silly on just meat. Very often, the pleasure of the meal for me comes from what is served with the main course. Shame on me, except for Lamb chops, my one big failing

scojones

This thread is very interesting. Thanks to everyone for their views on this. Asiaprod your post was great, and really explained your level of understanding very well. Your 20 years of practice really showed in that post. I too, drink and eat meat. With regards to food, meat eating and trying not to be wasteful, I think I have only ever cleared my plate once in my life on the first sitting. When I cannot finish the food I do not throw it away, however, I keep it for later on when I am hungry again. I also don't over indulge when it comes to food. When I cook for myself I can judge my portions perfectly and I'm never guilty of eating too much. I will stop eating meat as soon as I have done enough research into surviving on a healthy non-meat diet. I'm not really enjoying eating meat at the moment and I don't think this is fair on the animals that were sacrificed to keep me alive.

Drink, however, is a different issue altogether. I'm an alcoholic and I definitely over indulge in alcohol. This is something I am trying to address, and have been for some time now. I think you perfectly summed up how some people's views on drinking can be archaic, and that it's not about the intoxicant but about how much you consume and your reason for consumption. For instance, a glass of wine can really enhance the flavour of some meals, and is healthy for you. Too much however, is not. In my situation it would probably be best to abstain from it entirely.

MeditationMom

My apologies for this meat/intoxicant confusion. I must have had them linked in my brain.

Meat is acid and alcohol is alkaline. Meat/salt also increases aggression/tension while alcohol relaxes and makes sleepy. Meat is yangizing and alcohol is yinizing. In a traditional vegetarian diet, or religious vegetarian diet, one simply tries to reduce the pendulum swing between yin and yang. Like you said, nothing is evil in itself. Only when the balance is way off, bad stuff happens, to oneself or others.

by Asiaprod - I consider myself after 20 years of solid practice to be now capable of making my own choices.

Good....and in the future - choicelessness. Neither "following", nor "not following" the Fifth Precept. Neither "making choices", nor "not making choices". Especially one's own!

MeditationMom

by Asiaprod - Shame on me, except for Lamb chops, my one big failing

by scojones -I'm an alcoholic

I forgive you my sons!

Are we bringing some good old Catholic guilt into our Buddhist forum? I thought that's why we left the Catholic church to begin with. I say "we" because I am no stranger to this phenomena myself. There is a nice flavor to this confessional honesty, though.

As long as we drink, or eat "poor little lambs", the trick is to replace that guilt with gratitude. That's the practice not to neglect. You'll know you have reached the level of gratitude you are looking for when tears roll down your cheeks. Tears of gratitude. Not all the other kinds. It has to be a communion. That's when the "I" disappears for a moment. The rest will follow on its own accord. You'll see.

by DublinWriter - What a perfect pearl of wisdom to contemplate.

by Asiaprod - We have a wise Mom

Thank you, both. You are very kind. What a great phrase "a pearl of wisdom" I wonder who came up with that. Wikipedia here I come -

maitri

Asiaprod wrote:

I consider myself after 20 years of solid practice to be now capable of making my own choices.

Absolutely Asia!
And I'm sure that you were 20 years ago as well!

MeditationMom:
Thanks for those kind words!:)

Asiaprod

scojones wrote:

In my situation it would probably be best to abstain from it entirely.

And this honest comment by you gives your post far greater weight than mine. I applaud you. You understand and live The Fifth Precept of Buddhism.:)