Coolmine level crossing closing times (8:00-8:30am)

daymobrew

A quote from the Northside People, 21 March 2007, page 13 in article Extra Trains Cause Traffic Chaos Fear

Blanchardstown Camber of Commerce wrote:

As far as I know they are intending to lower the barriers from 8am-8:30am and from 5pm-5:30pm.

After reading recent articles (e.g. on Joan Burton's website) with comments about the new Docklands trains causing mayhem at the level crossings at Clonsilla and Coolmine I decided to get some data.

This morning I stood at Coolmine level crossing with a watch, a pen and paper. Between 8:00:00am and 8:30:00am the level crossing was closed 3 times for a total time of 8m56s. That is considerably less than the figures mentioned in the fact-less articles above.

8:00:00 Gate up
8:04:27 Gate closes (8:07:16 city bound train passes)
8:07:38 Gate opens (closed for 2m51s)
8:13:28 Gate closes (8:16:05 westbound express, 8:16:13 Bray train)
8:16:37 Gate opens (closed for 3m09s)
8:22:24 Gate closes (8:23:43 Docklands, 8:25:06 westbound local)
8:25:20 Gate opens (closed for 2m56s)
8:30:00 End of data recording

Notes:
"Gate opens" time recorded when cars first start to move.
"Gate closes" recorded when lights turn red, which is before
some people stop, and well before the gates come done.

Aside: to the drivers waiting at the LC: turn off your engines while you wait, especially if you are near the top of the line.
To some of those driving through the LC: please slow the hell down!
To those dropping people off at Coolmine: Please don't block the entrance; consider actually going into the car park (but don't park in the disabled spaces).

dodgyme

I love people like you. Well done at going and gathering the data of how it actually is in the real world.

MarkoP11

You will also note the Docklands bound train cost zero time since it passed with a train going the opposite way. 3 minutes is more or less that same as DART line for a single train passing

Admittedly Clonsilla gates are a little worse, but Coolmine is no worse that before and it is the busiest crossing by a mile

Enigma365

Did you notice whether all cars were getting through in one interval?

i.e. did any car have to wait for the gates to open but still not get through by the time the gates closed again

Also, how does this LC rate against the others? Is it the busiest, least busy?

daymobrew

Enigma365 wrote:

Did you notice whether all cars were getting through in one interval? i.e. did any car have to wait for the gates to open but still not get through by the time the gates closed again

No car had to wait. Traffic was very quiet this morning (of course I don't know what other days are like at that time).

Enigma365

I wonder if all the fuss about the level crossings was overblown hyperbole.

Fair play to you for doing that tho.

NCS

As I mentioned in another thread, the bigger issue would be the Clonsilla LC because traffic clearance over the bridge is a disaster for anything wider than a Hiace van and due to heavy buildup at the junction between Clonsilla Road and Portersgate Road. Maybe statistics can be provided for this ?

daymobrew

NCS wrote:

As I mentioned in another thread, the bigger issue would be the Clonsilla LC because traffic clearance over the bridge is a disaster for anything wider than a Hiace van and due to heavy buildup at the junction between Clonsilla Road and Portersgate Road. Maybe statistics can be provided for this ?

As you live in Clonsilla maybe you'd volunteer It's quite easy.

I wonder if people know about the other LC, west of Clonsilla. It brings you out near enough to Westmanstown. For those going between Clonee/Ongar and Lucan, it might be an better flowing alternative.

Pineapple stu

Barberstown level crossing? what about it?

Pineapple stu

Barberstown level crossing? what use is it to these areas you mention?

daymobrew

cymro wrote:

Barberstown level crossing? what about it?

This is what about it:

daymobrew wrote:

It brings you out near enough to Westmanstown. For those going between Clonee/Ongar and Lucan, it might be an better flowing alternative.

It was a suggestion following NCS's comment about congestion at Clonsilla LC and Portersgate. IIRC those from Ongar/Clonee could turn right before St Joe's Hospital and get to it, or has everything changed since the new Ongar Road opened?

daymobrew

On a humourous note, people were climbing over the gate on the north/Coolmine side of the station, even though the gate was unlocked. I, on the ticket office side, mentioned it to the ticket office guy and he said it was open. Then, as I took the attached photo, he open the office door and shouted across that it was open. It was!
The people who checked it mustn't have pulled on it hard enough.

NCS

daymobrew wrote:

... IIRC those from Ongar/Clonee could turn right before St Joe's Hospital and get to it, or has everything changed since the new Ongar Road opened?

It is a possible workaround but the roads round that way are pretty poor (blind corners, hidden junctions etc). And it's of no particular help to the poor souls on the 39s crawling along the Clonsilla Road and back.

Victor

NCS wrote:

As I mentioned in another thread, the bigger issue would be the Clonsilla LC because traffic clearance over the bridge is a disaster for anything wider than a Hiace van and due to heavy buildup at the junction between Clonsilla Road and Portersgate Road. Maybe statistics can be provided for this ?

Extra trains did not make the bridge narrower. FACT!

NCS

Victor wrote:

Extra trains did not make the bridge narrower. FACT!

Buh ?

I was referring to the slow clearance of traffic congestion at that junction/LC which was already the case prior to introduction of the new services. With the extra gate closures, the buildup between 8 and 8.30 worsened dramatically - just ask anyone who was driving on the Clonsilla Road at that time.

Extra trains did not make the traffic congestion reduce.

Pineapple stu

daymobrew wrote:

This is what about it: It was a suggestion following NCS's comment about congestion at Clonsilla LC and Portersgate. IIRC those from Ongar/Clonee could turn right before St Joe's Hospital and get to it, or has everything changed since the new Ongar Road opened?

Still cant see the point of those who live in ongar/clonee area taking a right turn at clonsilla station or use barberstown crossing. If they are going into dublin they dont need to go anywhere near clonsilla station and if they are going through lucan then they have a road that brings them straight to lucan and into the city that way.

Nevyn

daymobrew I think you need more data sets.
tehre are mornings where there are more trains then that esp whent here are goods trains on the line.

daymobrew

Thaedydal wrote:

daymobrew I think you need more data sets.
there are mornings where there are more trains then that esp when there are goods trains on the line.

Are goods trains on a schedule? I work at home on Fridays, hence the opportunity to collect data then. Whose turn is it next time?

Victor

daymobrew wrote:

Are goods trains on a schedule? I work at home on Fridays, hence the opportunity to collect data then. Whose turn is it next time?

How many goods trains are we talking about? I though that the oil trains were dropped a few years ago, so are we down to timber trains?

Goods trains are on a internal schedule. If you talk really nice to IÉ or IRN you should be able to get times.

MarkoP11

Freight runs to a timetable, there is no freight scheduled for the Maynooth line in either direction in the morning rush. In fact with Docklands open there are no slots in the system to operate such

In the evening rush Maynooth - North Wall is possible. Only Collite log trains operate on the line and even then they are only a few times a week

daymobrew's numbers stack up and the whole thing was storm in a tea cup, usual deal with politcans looking for something to talk about. Of course the rules say only one train in each direction may cross a level crossing before it must open

bugler

I live Pelletstown Manor. Which means I could go walk up to Ashtown station and get the train, which I used to do. Unfortunately latish last year the train started to get uncomfortably packed. It's dangerous IMO, but I'm sure that has been covered elsewhere.

I still didn't mind too much, I squeezed in and beared it. But when my girlfriend started working in the City Centre I was bit more uneasy. She's quite small, and gets uneasy in confined spaces. We did get the train a couple of times though. But then we showed up one morning and we literally couldn't get on the train at Ashtown. It was too crowded.

Even if we could have got on I'd have been wary. I don't want my girlfriend to faint, or have some sort of panic attack, or worse.

Be patient, I'm getting there! So we started to get the bus...the 120 from Rathborne.

The bus was good. The rail crossing was annoying at first, but then we realised that it was the 7.50 bus we needed to be on. This got across the crossing at Cabra/Finglas without any delays. The 8 am bus would usually be stuck at the crossing once for what I'd estimate was 5/6 minutes all told. If you were unlucky then maybe you'd be stuck for a second time again for another 5 minutes or so.

I noticed last week that the 7.50 seemed to get stuck at the crossing. Presumably this was to accomodate the 7.56 am (Ashtown - Docklands) service (not sure if that time is right). I don't mind this theoretically, as theoretically you can work out how much time this should add to the journey, but it was annoying. I had worked out my system, and while it wasn't perfect (I work on Harcourt St / Hatch St), so I have to walk there from Parnell St, I knew I could get to work on time getting that 7.50 am bus.

Which leads me to this morning...

We just missed the 7.50 am bus (they always leave 1-3 minutes early, Primetime hasn't stopped that - but that's another story), so we got the 8 am bus. This generally will get me in on time, or slightly late. But what I really dislike is the time spent at the crossing.

We drove off down toward the Royal Canal Park exit and toward the Cabra/Finglas Crossing. Except we couldn't actually leave RCP, because traffic was backed up back into the development. We were 7/8 cars back from the security cabin for those who know.

The crossing was down, presumably for the 7.56 am Docklands service.

So there were probably 20 vehicles waiting to pull out of RCP and turn right to the crossing. Of course traffic on that road was completely stopped, in fact it was backed out around toward Finglas as far as I could see.

The problems we were facing at this point [8.02 am approximately ] was that even if the crossing was lifted we would be faced with traffic coming from the right from the other side of the crossing, as well as traffic coming from the left from the Finglas direction. Trying to get out takes time, and consideration from other drivers. Needless to say, as we were maybe 20 vehicles back, it took a long time to get out onto the road at all.

There is actually a safety aspect to this. People leaving RCP who actually want to go the Finglas direction naturally don't want to sit in a line for the Cabra crossing. So they drive down the wrong side of the road out of RCP, and then out the wrong side of the road of the junction to make a left turn. They face a) The risk of a head-on collision with vehicles coming from Finglas and turning right into RCP or b) a collision with traffice that has come over the crossing and is coming into RCP or going straight on.

I'm not sure how many times the crossing was down. There were 3/4 (I'm not really sure to be honest) separate openings, with us getting through on the last one (obviously!). What I know is that having got on the bus at 8 am for what should be a 30 minutes journey approximately, I found myself still waiting for the crossing to go up at 8.36 am or so. On an empty road it would take maybe 3 minutes to get where I was. By the way, there were two more buses behind me, and a Garda car among many other vehicles. I hope ambulances don't ever have to use this route, or are at least instructed away from it. But I have seen two unmarked Garda cars with sirens on get stuck at the crossing before.

Now I can't speak for the Coolmine or Clonsilla situation, but as RCP is Dublin 15 then the description of it causing traffic chaos seems apt. Instead of adding a mere 5 minutes to anyones journey it has caused a knock on effect of traffic congestion leading out of RCP, and coming toward the crossing from Finglas.

I may well do what daymo has and time it some day. It isn't being made up by politicians. They are being told these things because essentially it is issues like these that motivate local politics. The fact that this crossing doesn't have a flyover is absurd. The fact that an effort to alleviate the disaster on the Western Commuter line has resulted in a disaster for bus users from Ashtown seems a very apt anecdote for me to tell when asked about Irish transport.

dodgyme

The LC near westmanstown is on a very narrow road so be careful. Also that picture of the people climbing the gate is very funny, typical of this country.

daymobrew

bugler wrote:

I live Pelletstown Manor. Which means I could go walk up to Ashtown station and get the train, which I used to do. Unfortunately latish last year the train started to get uncomfortably packed. It's dangerous IMO, but I'm sure that has been covered elsewhere.

Companies need to start offering flextime and work-at-home programmes. I use both at my place.

Jip

daymobrew wrote:

This morning I stood at Coolmine level crossing with a watch, a pen and paper. Between 8:00:00am and 8:30:00am the level crossing was closed 3 times for a total time of 8m56s. That is considerably less than the figures mentioned in the fact-less articles above.

But did you walk down Clonsilla Village to check the knock on effect this has ? It may seem like a short amount of time if you get to the gates each time but traffic just keeps building as the gates are closed. As the queue gets longer not all traffic will get through when the gates are open and as they close again for the 2nd and 3rd time the snarl up just gets bigger, as Bugler has attested to.

testicle

Jip wrote:

But did you walk down Clonsilla Village to check the knock on effect this has ? It may seem like a short amount of time if you get to the gates each time but traffic just keeps building as the gates are closed. As the queue gets longer not all traffic will get through when the gates are open and as they close again for the 2nd and 3rd time the snarl up just gets bigger, as Bugler has attested to.

He said above that all the traffic got through.

daymobrew

Jip wrote:

But did you walk down Clonsilla Village to check the knock on effect this has ? It may seem like a short amount of time if you get to the gates each time but traffic just keeps building as the gates are closed.

The only goal of my experiment was to get data to see how accurate the claims in the newspapers were.
Also, Friday seemed to be a very quiet morning wrt traffic, but I wasn't recording traffic numbers, and the number of trains didn't change because of a change in traffic volume.

I live near Coolmine train station. I did this on my own time, with no remuneration from anyone. If you or someone else wants to collect data at Clonsilla LC or village, they can. Participate!

Jip

testicle wrote:

He said above that all the traffic got through.

I must have missed that, where ? I know since the changes not all traffic gets through at every opening.

daymobrew wrote:

The only goal of my experiment was to get data to see how accurate the claims in the newspapers were.

I'm not knocking what you did as a whole, fair play to you, but you (not you in particular) have to get around the surrounding area to see the knock on affects of the changes and I do know for a fact that have been quite considerable so the papers are not exactly wrong.

Friday is always an exception to the rule as traffic is always lighter, even the N3 if often very quiet and you can often get as far as the roundabout for Blanchardstown village before having to sit in traffic.


Edit, just realised you were on about Coolmine crossing, apology. I'm coming from the point of view of Clonsilla Station which has become a bit of a nightmare since.

Skyhater

Jip wrote:

just realised you were on about Coolmine crossing, apology. I'm coming from the point of view of Clonsilla Station which has become a bit of a nightmare since.

Clonsilla is not as bad as people (especially the local media) are saying.
Yes, something needs to be done about the LC, ESPECIALLY on safety grounds!!! But the traffic gets though OK..... has got slightly worse since the new services were introduced.

daymobrew

Skyhater wrote:

Yes, something needs to be done about the LC, ESPECIALLY on safety grounds!!!

Pedestrian bridges are to be built beside the bridges at Clonsilla and Coolmine. Due in May I believe.

Skyhater

daymobrew wrote:

Pedestrian bridges are to be built beside the bridges at Clonsilla and Coolmine. Due in May I believe.

Yep.... Preliminary clearance work was done for the Clonsilla Bridge a few Weeks ago.
This will be an improvement, but more needs to be done. You will still have people streaming out onto the dangerous Clonsilla road junction, with people speeding by, trying to get through the LC before the barrier comes down again, and others trying to nose there way out. Combine this with Lorries and the 239 Double decker bus (bring back the imp on this rout), and you have a dangerous cocktail.
The eventual closure of the LC and development of new rout is needed asap. The new Ongar-Barnhill link road will help greatly.

fletch

Skyhater wrote:

Yep.... Preliminary clearance work was done for the Clonsilla Bridge a few Weeks ago.
This will be an improvement, but more needs to be done. You will still have people streaming out onto the dangerous Clonsilla road junction, with people speeding by, trying to get through the LC before the barrier comes down again, and others trying to nose there way out. Combine this with Lorries and the 239 Double decker bus (bring back the imp on this rout), and you have a dangerous cocktail.
The eventual closure of the LC and development of new rout is needed asap. The new Ongar-Barnhill link road will help greatly.

Yeh I can't see many people actually using the new footbridge as when they disembark from the Maynooth bound train, they will exit via the gate on the Luttrelstown side of the tracks. IMO they need to block off access completely on the road bridge and only allow access via this new foot bridge.
It reminds me of when they introduced a lollipop lady to our school. She was about 5 feet out of peoples way and as such nobody used her!