Gmail and TCD

xebec

Do google keep a copy of everyones cookies? Or do they just access them every time someone uses their search engine?

Nietzschean

google only has access to the cookies it puts in your browser to begin with, which they could easily just keep on their servers... so they don't really keep a copy of the cookies, the cookies keep a running user profile of that browser though.....

privacy wise meh would be the big thing i'd have to say, google currently don't read your mail to build some level of personal profile. Infact they just search for key words, the bots don't attempt to understand the mail's meaning at all(which is where it would get icky privacy wise). These days if you have something private to send you should encrypt it, end of story...

(for gmail/other web clients http://www.freenigma.com/ )

John

So if you delete your cookies from your machine you appear as a new user to google?

Nietzschean

John wrote:

So if you delete your cookies from your machine you appear as a new user to google?

aye pretty much yeah, they could track based on ip , but its highly useless due to potential of lots of users from 1 ip. cookies are how its done normally

xeduCat

Oh, come on. There is ample research on Chinese blocking of web content, and on Google's involvement in it; the last presentation I gave in the law school, I even prepared side-by-side results for simulated-via-China results and 'normal' ISS results.

Try the detailed results of the OpenNet initiative (Harvard and the University of Toronto): http://www.opennetinitiative.net/studies/china/ .

Would you like to try explain away the "Golden Shield"? And remember of course that traditionally academic institutions etc have had much greater access to the outside, even in the days of ARPANET and NSFNET.

On balance I do trust ISS (although I have major concerns on privacy etc from a legal point of view, I know and believe enough of the people in there that they have built in sufficient safeguards), but I do think the ethical position of the College's 'partner' is an appropriate topic for debate. I am extremely uncomfortable with what Google (and others) have done in China, but I'm also addicted to the information that they supply, which is typical of this sort of moral dilemna

On the specifically Chinese issue, I do appreciate your argument that things are changing, but I think being reppressive rather than really-repressive isn't something to get too excited about....

Nietzschean

google are a large corporation at the end of the day, given the ammount of web users in china it would be economically stupid not to have gone in there. i wouldn't let it effect my view of them supplying email services to the college, but to each their own.....

xeduCat

Indeed. I was annoyed at their decision to do a deal, not because of the China connection (everyone does it, like you say you'd be mad not to!) but because they had spent so long saying "Don't Be Evil" and so on, and advocating non-censorship etc. Google's strategy and image was that they were about 'freedom' and thus they get higher scrutiny in response.

Didn't stop me using them, though (I know a few techlaw types who are still boycotting, but it's next to impossible to function without!)

King.Penguin

did someone already mention that your email address will remain username@tcd.ie? I think that's important. It won't be username@gmail.com

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

did someone already mention that your email address will remain username@tcd.ie? I think that's important. It won't be username@gmail.com

oh yeah of course it'll be @tcd

Crash

To return to your question moorsy, I believe google are safe to use in this instance provided that ISS ensure that all of googles actions fall within trinitys own rules relating to the use of the network and internet useage.

I've still yet to be fully assured of any of this, so think I might go on a hunt for info once college gets back.

Also, lets all get back on topic.

ApeXaviour

&#231 wrote: »

Also, lets all get back on topic.

Agreed. Moorsy, Thirdfox, you can continue your discussion here if you wish:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055070511

xebec

ApeXaviour wrote:

Agreed. Moorsy, Thirdfox, you can continue your discussion here if you wish:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055070511

Thanks for that, think everyone got a bit sidetracked there!

It's great that we get to keep our tcd emails after we graduate. :cool:

ApeXaviour

<Jonny> wrote:

It's great that we get to keep our tcd emails after we graduate. :cool:

Actually yeah... they did tend to cut you off rather abruptly. As in very soon after finishing exams. This of course caused a lot of problems for friends of mine continuing into phd studies. They'd then have their original mymail account set up to forward to their gmail (from which they'd lost all contacts), this only lasting 6 months. Then get a new tcd accounts which they need to use for officialness etc.

At least this is the impression I got, maybe ed can clarify

John

The same thing happened to friends of mine, it didn't matter if they had confirmed that they were staying on months ahead, ISS have their little "fun" with the email addresses. The forwarding works for a year though, I'm still getting a load of crap from various clubs and societies.

Stargal

Yeah me too (including the Jazz Soc, which I joined in Fresher's Week 2002 and still receive regular mails from. Cheers lads).

Nietzschean

ApeXaviour wrote:

maybe ed can clarify

Am i allowed do that also?

they do cut them off very quickly, though as john said you do get forwarding for a year, all of us then forwarded stuff to gmail.
We don't really get new accounts , or at least we arn't supposed to when the phd thing kicks in, old account is kinda brought back to life in a new form.Lots of people move them back for the 'official' email sending lark, though you can add more email addresses to gmail so they appear to come from your tcd email address anyway which is what i did(and alot of academics i work with appear to do the same)

Edwardius

Aye, I got my old account back even though I was given a new username and password on registration... which didn't work while the old one did. All my old stuff was still in the filestorage as I'd left it so I'd assume they just lock it until they find out if the person is coming back. The email forwarding was useful though, I'm still running everything through gmail because that filters any spam that gets through the tcd account. I think you get booted off on something like the 12th of july and lose all TCD priveliges. Resentment soon follows.

King.Penguin

Our student cards are still valid up to October though aren't they? So we can swipe into the lazer huts but not use the computers? That's a bit ****.

shay_562

Not wanting to get sidetracked again, but given the posts above, can we expect an SU referendum to drop the g-mail deal and block Google from college computers in a year or two?

Edwardius

Not gonna happen. Remember ISS services stance on blocking bebo? I doubt their jurisdiction extends as far as the 'pooters. You're joking though?

shay_562

God yes. I might actually burn down House 6 in a fit of rage should such a motion ever come before us, let alone pass.

As boycotts go, it would probably go down as the least effective one ever. Especially as you're required by College to check your e-mails regularly

xeduCat

I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting a Google-ban! I was quite vehement in defence of the ISS policy of 'no blocking', although I think Myth was in favour of selective blocking if I remember rightly! (I'm right, of course).

But there's a world of difference between calling for a boycott/ban/whatever on a company and asking for full scrutiny of an arrangement to (possibly) transfer personal information to a third party. As I said, I think ISS have done all this (as they are fairly pro-privacy people!) but that doesn't take away the need to question. It is possible to do that without talk of boycotts etc. In fact, I'd suggest that it's a responsibility, and at least in part a legal requirement under Irish and EU law.

punka

Does anyone know if alumni will be able to get their TCD email accounts re-activated?

John

Don't think so

Duffman

xeduCat wrote:

But there's a world of difference between calling for a boycott/ban/whatever on a company and asking for full scrutiny of an arrangement to (possibly) transfer personal information to a third party.

They're definitely transferring the information to Google servers. That's how Google Apps work.

fiveone

shay_562 wrote:

God yes. I might actually burn down House 6 in a fit of rage should such a motion ever come before us, let alone pass.

Hey, at least you'd get active about something, even it if it is militant regressivism. Noone is suggesting a boycott of google - it shouldn't come in the first place. The only arguments I've heard are about retaining email addresses and mail space, and frankly its not justifiable given the privacy concerns.

Anyone for McDonalds renting out the buttery?

King.Penguin

couldn't give two fooks about google. more space, better system, thumbs up from me.

shay_562

Hey, at least you'd get active about something, even it if it is militant regressivism.

I'd thank you not to comment on my activity or lack thereof in relation to student issues. Things like the acting course being shut down, DUCAC introducing ludicrous charges that could kill minority sports in Trinity, the USI's blood ban campaign - that's stuff I'm willing to complain about and get active about where possible. G-mail sending me the occasional spam targetted e-mail? Not exactly my hugest worry, and your patronising, high-handed tone when you passive-aggressively criticise me for said lack of worry (having referred to those of us who support the move as being myopically self-concerend and wilfully ignorant upthread) quite honestly offends me.

Aside from that, even the more, shall we say, "corporate minded" among us should understand the disadvantages of the corporate hegemony gmail is a part of. That it isn't an issue for you personally is not a valid excuse anymore. Feel free to continue using it, I have no doubt you will, but understand it is not a question of free choice as much as myopic self-concern and willful ignorance.

Anyone for McDonalds renting out the buttery?

If they can provide a better service at a lower cost, then by all means. What is it with you and your insane, irrational hatred of corporations? You went on a similar kick about Coke before the referendum - quite honestly, I find your under-educated, over-opinionated rantings lacking in any logical thread beyond "Big business is bad. It's always evil, no matter what, because I said so" and, quite frankly, irritating beyond belief.