France Vs Scotland

davyjose

Redundo wrote:

I was watching the BBC coverage, I clearly heard the Ref say he saw the grounding and would award the try, but wanted to know if there was a foul committed before the grounding - in other words a knock on. The TMO couldn't see a foul and so the try was given.
There was no doubt in the BBC commentators minds that the try was legit, it was only on flipping back to RTE that i heard them bitching.

Can't really blame the last minute try by the Italians for us losing the title. Can't blame the Irish team for trying to show that killer instinct that everyone says they lack. Can't blame the French for digging deep and not giving up.

It sucks. It hurts. But thats sport for ya.

Yup - move on, stop torturing yourselves and look forward to the World Cup. Good to see Wales win today.

Redundo

I'm all Rugby'd out for the time being. But I think i'll have my appetite back by the time the HEC rolls round!

Dave!

When's the World Cup start?

davyjose

DaveMcG wrote:

When's the World Cup start?

Don't forget the summer tour

Liam Byrne

Glad to have that cleared up, because there was no way the video replays showed the ball being grounded; in fact, to me it looked like there were 2 arms under the ball, but if the ref DID see it then fair enough - he was pretty darn close to the action.

Ireland lost the tournament themselves; losing to France, not killing off the game before Italy scored the second try, etc.

O'Gara came in for a fair amount of criticism in the pub I was in, but as the only player to score in the match against Scotland, I wouldn't be TOO hard on him.

O'Connell was a huge loss, and there were a couple of potential breaks after O'Driscoll went off injured that would've suited O'Driscoll being on.

Bottom line is that a surprising element of tactical naievety in the last few minutes of both the France and Italy matches cost us dearly.

If we can sort that out, as well as develop a little more of a killer instinct, we'll be well on our way to at least a World Cup Final.

redspider

I didnt read all of the posts above, and I dont claim to know the minutae of some of the rules of Rugby as they have changed a lot since the era when I played the sport in my youth, but can anyone tell me when a ball is grounded with a defender and attacker both holding the ball at the same time, is that a Try?

If so, then, from what I saw of the slow-mo, especially the one form the sideline view, it was a try. This would also make sense as there was no way that one Scottish arm could keep all of the surface of that ball off the ground.

So, Try or no Try, given the above situation?

By the way, was that the same Scottish arm that was allegedly around O'Gara's neck last week??

Overall, a cruel way to lose the championship. Well done Ireland overall and hats off to the French as well.

Redspider

Redundo

The grounding of the ball is a non-issue. The ref was on the spot and saw the ball being grounded. What he wasn't sure of was whether the French committed a foul before grounding. The instruction he gave to the TMO was that he was going to award the try unless the TMO saw something to rule it out. The TMO couldn't see any foul and so the try was given.

muincav

I bet Mc Dowell has a nice long holiday in a villa in the South of France (probably and PREFERABLY starting from now) and hopefully he will come across a proper Irishman by the name of TREVOR BRENNAN

RuggieBear

muincav wrote:

I bet Mc Dowell has a nice long holiday in a villa in the South of France (probably and PREFERABLY starting from now) and hopefully he will come across a proper Irishman by the name of TREVOR BRENNAN

just what do you mean by proper?

copacetic

muincav wrote:

I bet Mc Dowell has a nice long holiday in a villa in the South of France (probably and PREFERABLY starting from now) and hopefully he will come across a proper Irishman by the name of TREVOR BRENNAN

have you read any of the thread? He couldn't rule out a try for nothing.

Steffano2002

I've just relived the game by reading through this whole thread. What a wonderful afternoon of rugby! And before I go any further, sorry for "stealing" from you again (twice in the same VI Nations is a lot)...

copacetic wrote:

the ref said he saw it grounded and just wanted the TMO to say was it definitely not a try. you could hear him on BBC.

Absolutely correct! The ref saw the ball was grounded. He only went to the TMO to see if the try could somehow be disallowed. The ref should have approved the try instead of going to the TMO IMO. He wasn't very good... I tell you what though, it got my heart pumping like you wouldn't believe! Whoever wrote the script this year was really good!

eoin2nc wrote:

i apologse for earlier comment. i was way out of line. emotions and all that........just very dissapointed

What did he say?! I'm gutted I missed it...

RuggieBear wrote:

keep it on topic people and be nice. we are all gutted...well all except steffano.

You can say that again RuggieBear!

Although I'm still disappointed we didn't do the Grand Slam :mad:

athtrasna

I was watching the beeb and they said the referee said he thought it was a try and asked the video ref if he could see any reason not to grant the try. An interesting take on the role of the 4th official

Steffano2002

athtrasna wrote:

I was watching the beeb and they said the referee said he thought it was a try and asked the video ref if he could see any reason not to grant the try. An interesting take on the role of the 4th official

I thought it was stupid to go to the TMO and tell him over the radio "I saw the ball grounded. To me it's a try but...". Why not go to the TMO everytime there is a try while we're at it! :rolleyes:

timmywex

Steffano2002 wrote:

I thought it was stupid to go to the TMO and tell him over the radio "I saw the ball grounded. To me it's a try but...". Why not go to the TMO everytime there is a try while we're at it! :rolleyes:

maybe a good idea for games but i think the ref knew that it was the championship try and it depended on his decision so he asked for any reason not to give it, there was none and the try was awarded!!!

muincav

copacetic wrote:

have you read any of the thread? He couldn't rule out a try for nothing.

yeah dude-read all the threads and watched all matches on tv (didnt sit typing to boards when it was on!),,,but I am still allowed to have my opinion and being a free country you are still allowed to bitch and moan at every other post on boards, most of which you seem to do anyhow....
I BELIEVE THE TRY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN (my opinion)
OKAY-have a nice day copacetic:eek:

copacetic

muincav wrote:

yeah dude-read all the threads and watched all matches on tv (didnt sit typing to boards when it was on!),,,but I am still allowed to have my opinion and being a free country you are still allowed to bitch and moan at every other post on boards, most of which you seem to do anyhow....
I BELIEVE THE TRY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN (my opinion)
OKAY-have a nice day copacetic:eek:

my point was that you don't seem to actually have a reason why it shouldn't have been given. If you have one it would be normal to tell us what it is. Not post that the TMO isn't a proper irishman. Which could also do with some explaining by the way.

Liam Byrne

The last time I saw the ball there were at least 2 hands under it....it's difficult to see how the ref saw it as a try. It DEFINITELY wasn't possible for the TMO to see it as a try, and if the ref had gone upstairs for THAT, the Irish would have every right to complain. The TMO had 5 replays and every chance to get the call right - if that's what he'd been asked to do.

It's also difficult to see how the ref missed 2 forward passes in the Ireland v Italy game, so I guess it's fair enough...the difference is that the ref sees things once in real-time, whereas a TMO has no excuse.

If it was a normal TMO situation, it would have been NO TRY; if the ref asked the question that was posted (and missed by RTE's Sky viewers :rolleyes: ) then fair enough - I think he was wrong, but I also think the ref for the forward pass was wrong, and the ref for the Wales match was even "wronger".

Ireland lost the championship based on 3 things:

1) Falling asleep against France for 30 seconds
2) Not playing as they can/should against Scotland
3) Being a little greedy when the clock ran out yesterday, thereby letting Italy in for the last try

Ireland are one of the best teams around, but they need to get the consistency right and start thinking like Munster - kill the game off when necessary, and don't get cocky at the end and lose a try; they did that against both France and Italy, and it cost 'em.

Redundo

The ref stated that he saw the grounding of the ball.

Can the pointless bitching stop now please?

chazza_2007ie

i cant believe people sat n typed while the match was on good on ye for concintrating n i argree with the people that said it wasnt a try there was 2 hands under the ball but **** that if ireland went in 2 to play they wud of known wat points to play for they went in blind played a good game n let wild points we needed. but hey thats life ( COME ON MUNSTER IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS HEHE )

eoin2nc

Steffano2002 wrote:

I've just relived the game by reading through this whole thread. What a wonderful afternoon of rugby! And before I go any further, sorry for "stealing" from you again (twice in the same VI Nations is a lot)...

Absolutely correct! The ref saw the ball was grounded. He only went to the TMO to see if the try could somehow be disallowed. The ref should have approved the try instead of going to the TMO IMO. He wasn't very good... I tell you what though, it got my heart pumping like you wouldn't believe! Whoever wrote the script this year was really good!

What did he say?! I'm gutted I missed it...

You can say that again RuggieBear!

Although I'm still disappointed we didn't do the Grand Slam :mad:

You didnt miss much

Amz

chazza_2007ie wrote:

i cant believe people sat n typed while the match was on good on ye for concintrating n i argree with the people that said it wasnt a try there was 2 hands under the ball but **** that if ireland went in 2 to play they wud of known wat points to play for they went in blind played a good game n let wild points we needed. but hey thats life ( COME ON MUNSTER IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS HEHE )

At least try and post in English when you post here.

komodosp

Did anyone notice that the French were constantly doing just enough to win? There was a quick flurry of tries until they got ahead, then it's like they took their foot of the accelerator for a while, then when Scotland got their try to put Ireland back ahead, full steam ahead for the French again. Just a pity the Scots couldn't hold them... and they weren't going to just kick it to touch when they got it either.

My point being, that even if Italy hadn't scored that last try, I think France would probably have won. I'd rather both Ireland's forward-pass try and the French last minute try were disallowed! Or Ireland play second (a huge advantage to the French, IMHO).

But it looks like the Ref could see the try so no question of the French try being disallowed

Really we should be lamenting the last minute try the French got against Ireland, that's when we lost it...

By the way, how long would the ref let play go on after the 80 if the ball didn't go out of play?

Chucky the tree

komodosp wrote:

By the way, how long would the ref let play go on after the 80 if the ball didn't go out of play?

Until there is a break in play. If he had of been held up he would of ended the match then. He cant end it on a penatly to france either.

walshb

eoin2nc wrote:

You didnt miss much

The ref got it totally wrong. He told the TV ref he was awarding the try and to confirm. The TV ref had no option but to agree. If he was awarding the try, why involve the TV ref. It does not make sense. The ref could not have known if the ball was grounded but he was giving the try regardless...robbed

nacho libre

walshb wrote:

The ref got it totally wrong. He told the TV ref he was awarding the try and to confirm. The TV ref had no option but to agree. If he was awarding the try, why involve the TV ref. It does not make sense. The ref could not have known if the ball was grounded but he was giving the try regardless...robbed

So what motive had the ref to lie? A free holiday in a villa in the South of France? Denis Hickie is right; this Six Nations can be used as a motivating factor for the World Cup. Ireland can still have the last laugh on the French.

Laslo

komodosp wrote:

Did anyone notice that the French were constantly doing just enough to win?

They generally do.