Splitting the forum in half.

dlofnep

I was going to post this in the other thread, but it was closed just as I posted.. So I'll just paste it here.

Are these discussion forums? Afterall, I thought we were just having a discussion.

The OP expected ninjitsu to be something it isn't, so we offered other viable options and gave our reasoning as to why.

There is nothing wrong with our posts. We're not trying to hijack or swindle guys to joining our arts. Personally, I couldn't care less about who trains what.. I'm just offering an opinion on a topic. If that's offensive or annoys someone, tough. And I'm not an MMA person. I train judo and bjj.. I'm an MMA person after judo & bjj and to be honest, I've only trained legit mma classes a handful of times with either JK on his seminars, over in England with Leigh Remedios or a few times at a local kickboxing club. That's about the extent of it.

I'm a firm believer in making sure people have a full expectation of an art before they try it. If the art they want doesn't match what they expect, I'll offer a word on it.

I'm not an expert in any martial art. I've just dabble in a few for the last 3-4 years on and off. I don't have a black belt in anything. I've never won anything major and I wouldn't consider myself a good martial artist.. I'm honest with my self assessment.

The problem on here is some arts are still clinging onto the mysticism of martial arts. They are caught up in all the fairy-tale tradition and when they see that some guy training for a year in something is a more functional martial artist, when they themselves have spent the last 10 years of their life on something, it annoys me and get in defensive mode.

So out comes the cliché "Oh god, you MMA guys are hijacking everything!!"

I suggested a LONG time ago that we split the MMA forums in two but the answer was no. And the reason? The conversation on this forum would die.

This forum was dormant until a few of us who used to hang around on Irmac and such came over here and started posting. Before a big group of us came, this forum was about as busy as the frisby forum. Now it's exploding with content and more people are coming here. This is a good thing and a bad thing. Good is more people = more conversations. Bad = a conflict of training methods usually ends up in debate after debate and it gets tiresome.

I'm all for cutting this forum in half. I think it should of been done a long time ago.

Also, I've added a poll on your thoughts on splitting this forum into two. We could do it as a trial run for a month and see how things go?

astfgl

No don't split the forum in half.
If someone has issues with how you train then deal with those issues, don't hide away from the world.
This is a discussion forum so discuss you views, if you dont want to discuss them, if you just want to rant on and have everyone pat you on the back and never question what you say then get off this board and get yourself a blog. (that goes for everyone)

Tim_Murphy

No don't split the forum in half.
If someone has issues with how you train then deal with those issues, don't hide away from the world.
This is a discussion forum so discuss you views, if you dont want to discuss them, if you just want to rant on and have everyone pat you on the back and never question what you say then get off this board and get yourself a blog. (that goes for everyone)

Strong words! I agree.

dlofnep

I see where you're coming from, but never every post that is made, Not one goes by without some kind of argument. It gets tedious.

MrO

astfgl wrote:

No don't split the forum in half.
If someone has issues with how you train then deal with those issues, don't hide away from the world.
This is a discussion forum so discuss you views, if you dont want to discuss them, if you just want to rant on and have everyone pat you on the back and never question what you say then get off this board and get yourself a blog. (that goes for everyone)

Thats ok
You seem to enjoy this place - you can keep the board all for yourself - I'm off to hide away from the world and deal with my crushing inferiority complex :rolleyes:

Good luck on the crusade - don't take these things too seriously, sure tis only the internet:)

Roper

MrO wrote:

Good luck on the crusade - don't take these things too seriously, sure tis only the internet:)

Wise words, well spoken! But by the same token anyone who is getting all hot under the collar about someone hijacking a thread shouldn't really be taking it that seriously. I mean, if someone disagrees with me on here and I think that they 'hijacked' me or they insulted me in some way, I don't care, tis only the internet after all.

To my mind, if someone wants to go do Ninjutsu, off they go, but I'll still reserve the right to say "hey man, I think you'd be better off with Muay Thai, but do what you want".

Now I accept that some people act like d1ckheads and can't see beyond their own noses when it comes to certain things, and some people can be down right ignorant.

Anyway, I was thinking there how silly these arguments are. They do get tedious. Imagine the following scenario:
I post on a board that I'm looking for a good home heating oil supplier. Someone replies that they'd recommend ditching the oil tank and getting a gas line. Someone else replies they'd reccomend solar power. And someone else replies with an oil provider's number. Now I get what I want (the oil number) and I also get some extra info on solar and gas which I can choose to either enquire further about or just ignore. All is cool no? I think everyone on the board could accept this type of posting in relation to martial arts.

Now then, suppose I say "thanks for the info, but I'm happy with oil all the same", that should be that, except the solar guy comes back and wants to see the statistics of how efficient my system is, how much I spend per year etc. Calls me a moron for using such an outmoded heating system etc. etc. At that stage, I think I could quite rightly say "Hey man, I just wanted a frickin phone number, leave it out". I think that would be beyond discussion and into the type of problem we have here.

Now I'm all for questioning, all for it, and when someone like John Kav or say, Mick Coup comes on here and questions people's training methods, people should sit up and listen, because these guys have a wealth of experience to share. Others are just training a few years, and should remember that they have a long time training ahead of them, and who knows, one day may well decide that they prefer ninjutsu, or shotokan.

So I propose the following: Don't split it. Instead, put in an introductions thread detailing your experience. Not that it will make a difference to what you can say, but it might save an argument or two when someone looks at your profile and sees "4 months BJJ" or "1 years Karate" on it. Then maybe instead of being drawn into an argument they can just dismiss your opinion as that of an over-enthusiastic newbie, or as just a w@nker.

My two cents are in.

MrO

Roper wrote:

Wise words, well spoken! But by the same token anyone who is getting all hot under the collar about someone hijacking a thread shouldn't really be taking it that seriously. I mean, if someone disagrees with me on here and I think that they 'hijacked' me or they insulted me in some way, I don't care, tis only the internet after all.

You're spot on there and on everthing else you've said - fair points and the collar is just the right temperature

And remember roper always train with 100% compliant partners. Its way more fun (sorry I couldn't resist:) )

all the best!

Nothingcompares

I think if this forum was split or a new forum was created called MMA the activity would severely decrease. MMA is the most popular discipline on this forum (or people from the mma conspiriacy post more often).

i think other then the discussion/promotion of MMA (UFR, ROT) Subwrestling and BJJ tournies and Pride and UFC etc. we'd have nothing to talk about if the forum was made MMA not sd/ma.

i think there just happens to be a lot of agreement between the 'mma ppl' about a whole range of things and without someone disagreeing there is nothing to argue about and therefore nothing to contribute.

I think another valid point to be made that an exceptionally large amount of the important people in Irish MMA (the best fighters/ coaches/ events people) contribute to this forum. It's not just people like me with a few years training who think they're Bruce Lee. I don't think any other martial art can say this.

Dragan

dlofnep wrote:

I was going to post this in the other thread, but it was closed just as I posted.. So I'll just paste it here.



Also, I've added a poll on your thoughts on splitting this forum into two. We could do it as a trial run for a month and see how things go?

The thread was closed for a reason, and a good one at that.

A trial run split is asking ALOT of the Admins in that you want them to create a new forum, for a test, and then if you don't like it asked them to merge both forums together again? Good luck.

There is nothing going wrong on this forum that cannot be resolved by a few people taking there heads out of the asses and treating others with respect.

A simple rule of dragging threads off topic just to knock holes in another art would suffice don't you think?

The simple fact is that it will be a case of clear up acts or run the risk of going the way of the soccer forum and getting shut down, because people cannot keep there toys in the pram.

This would be a shame, as i enjoy the opportuinity to read about different arts, peoples endeavours within those arts and so forth.

Also, i hate to bring this up Dlofnep but you were one of the people poking holes in Youtube videos that were posted for the trainers being compliant, and then proceeded to post 6 or 7 video's of YOU training with a compliant partner at the time.

Were those clips a small part of you overall training? Yes. So perhaps we can all keep that in mind the next time we thinking about talking about resisting training partners.

Dlofnep, don't take that as any kind of personal attack, because it's not. I just feel it's a pretty fitting example.

Edit : Also it should be noted that there is a correct Forum to post in for Forum suggestions.

You can find it here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

HammerHeadGym

I suggest everyone takes look at this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=2055066030

then take a deep breath and lets all have a hug.

dlofnep

Good feedback overall.

Dragan wrote:

Also, i hate to bring this up Dlofnep but you were one of the people poking holes in Youtube videos that were posted for the trainers being compliant, and then proceeded to post 6 or 7 video's of YOU training with a compliant partner at the time.

Were those clips a small part of you overall training? Yes. So perhaps we can all keep that in mind the next time we thinking about talking about resisting training partners.

Dlofnep, don't take that as any kind of personal attack, because it's not. I just feel it's a pretty fitting example.

Actually, I was outlining that compliance alone is no good and that without sparring it's not functional. Hence, why I also posted videos of my sparring. I think this went over some people's heads.

All martial arts require compliance for the introductory stage, but what I was suggesting was that compliance alone is borderline worthless which is what I saw on the videos on youtube, even from the videos on ninjitsu marked as "randori" or "sparring" - They still looked compliant, but my sparring videos were not compliant and had completely dynamic outcomes. That's the difference. I actually searched for sparring videos, only to find that same compliance, but yet when I searched for sparring videos of judo or whatever, there is no element of compliance.

Nothingcompares

I think it's a little unfair of Dragan to personally criticise Dlofnep. he asked someone "is this how you train" and instead of saying "yes it is" they saiad "yes it is but". He went one better then everyone else talking about the different aspects of training when he not only showed an alternative approach to training but showed himself doing it. He demonstrated the important principle that compliance training on its own is useless of Self-defence training but sparring is absolutely nessecary. But the compliance part, in judo like all martial arts, is important to learn the techniques, the mechanics and fluidity of them.

I think comparisons to the soccer forum are a bit unfair too. This isn't like a load of man united fans hijacking every liverpool thread saying liverpool are crap, the players are crap, the manager is crap just because there is some arbitrary reason for people supporting Man U rather than Liverpool and having irrational grudges.

dlofnep

Thanks NC.

Dragan

Nothingcompares wrote:

I think it's a little unfair of Dragan to personally criticise Dlofnep.

As i said, it was not a personal criticism at all. I was using it as an example as a point that i was making as another poster.

I was simply using it as an example of how things can be taken up the wrong way? Maybe i did this badly and if so i apologise for that.

Nothingcompares wrote:

I think comparisons to the soccer forum are a bit unfair too. This isn't like a load of man united fans hijacking every liverpool thread saying liverpool are crap, the players are crap, the manager is crap just because there is some arbitrary reason for people supporting Man U rather than Liverpool and having irrational grudges.

That is by and large exactly what it's like, to be honest. It's not very often that a thread does not go down the "this versus that" route over something. The simple fact is that the Higher Powers are watching, i think thats clear from DeVore's post. So if we want to keep this forum going then some agreement needs to happen.

dlofnep

Dragan wrote:

As i said, it was not a personal criticism at all. I was using it as an example as a point that i was making as another poster.

You didn't actually get my original point, which simply was compliance on it's own won't work and what I had seen, even from sparring videos led me to believe that it was still compliant at all stages.

Still not to worry. It's all done and dusted now.

Nothingcompares

Ok, I'll leave this issue with this post. The point I was making about the soccer is that thier problems was just random thread spoiling and trolling. Just because, for some reason, one guy has an attachment to liverpool and the other guy an attachment to man united. They're basically the same thing just some people get a bit emotional about these things.

The problem on this forum is different. It's not a case of a TKD guy saying Karate is crap do TKD. It's not a case of a Judo guy saying BJJ is crap do this. Why not? Because they are, BASICALLY, the same thing but just a different spin. And the reasons why some ppl do one rather than the other is either personal preference or a fluke, they just happened to start in that and continue.

The problem on this forum is when a new person asks for information they invariably infer a number of key assumptions. We, the audience, make a number of assumptions also. If some says they want to learn a Martial Art and they infer (or state) it's for self-defence reasons, we the audience presume they want to learn something in the most useful and efficient manner. This usefully conflicts with the martial art they mentioned in the post.

The question of which martial art is an arbitrary one just like liverpool or man united because a huge chunk will come down to personal preference. However, if the question is phrased which MA is best suited for these specific goals (fitness, fun, functional) their choice is greatly narrowed down. And the answer becomes a logical one.

If someone askes you for advice on how to start weight training you need to ask them why? Why - because a different program will suit different goals. If I say I want to do weight training and get as strong and explosive for sports and someone tells me do go and buy 2 25kg dumbbells and start bicep curling I'd hope someone would butt in and say no, do this, do powerlifting or Olympic lighting type lifts. They're more useful to your goal.

ALL martial arts can be fun, enjoyable and a way to meet new people.
NOT ALL martial arts are relevant to the idea of practical self-defence.

Finally, the great majority of people doing MMA or similar started off in Kenpo or similar so at least they know what they're talking about when they discuss the relative methods. Very few Kenpo or similar guys came from a MMA background.

Khannie

Nothingcompares wrote:

Finally, the great majority of people doing MMA or similar started off in Kenpo or similar so at least they know what they're talking about when they discuss the relative methods. Very few Kenpo or similar guys came from a MMA background.

Very interesting point.

Roper wrote:

Then maybe instead of being drawn into an argument they can just dismiss your opinion as that of an over-enthusiastic newbie, or as just a w@nker.

I laughed. I agree and disagree though. On boards.ie in general, many consider post count important for example. Beyond, say 50 posts, your opinion is as valid as any others IMO. Or, just because I'm a mod doesn't mean that people shouldn't tell me to STFU from time to time (hell...we ALL have bad days). I'm sure I've said plenty of noob things on here, and everyone's aware that I'm a MA noob, but I'd hate to have it plastered across my sig or something.

It becomes very clear after a short while of using this board who has the experience (e.g. paddy, roper, colm, etc.) and who doesn't (me, etc.) anyway.

On the original point, I think that the nature of this forum is that people will push their own, or a similar / related discipline. I have laughed (inside) at some of the recommendations that have been made, but I wouldn't disagree with them. As was pointed out by Dev, I think the best way forward is probably to:

DeVore wrote:

Cut out the criticism of other arts, cheer your own side, dont boo the other team.

If this were a rule, it would really cut out a lot of the sh*te.

Happy Paddy's weekend lads.

cowzerp

i dont see a problem with friendly debates about different arts-most of the time its the best part of the forum-my problem is when people say do this instead of that, for no reason other than there bias. or tell someone who asks about where a kenpo club is to do tkd instead!

Clive

As a Traditional Martial Artist myself, I've never had a problem with a Mixed Martial Artist on the internet. It seems that a lot of the problem stems from two issues

1) Some "MMA" people (hate that term) are still in the evangelical stage, they feel duped and that they've wasted their time with a particular art or arts and now they've "seen the light". They want to share their revelation with others.

2) Some "TMA" people (hate that term too) don't seem able to apply their skills online, by which I mean, defuse the situation before it becomes a confrontation.

EXAMPLE (using TKD because, as a black belt, I'm allowed to say whatever I want about it)

CLIVE: I'm interested in WTF TKD in Meath - anyone know of any clubs or could offer any recommendations. Navan would be ideal, but willing to travel if needs be.

EVILC: TKD sucks! I did it for years, and all I ever got was an empty wallet! Find a boxing gym and don't waste your time, then learn some ground, cos that roolz!

At this point, I could enter into an argument with this mysterious, yet sexy EVILC, or I could side-step him, leaving his post to speak for it's own stupidity and his inadequacy, like a pair of knickers flapping slowly in the wind.

I could give an example from the opposite side, but I'm sure we all get the point.

astfgl

Khannie wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeVore
Cut out the criticism of other arts, cheer your own side, dont boo the other team.


If this were a rule, it would really cut out a lot of the sh*te.

Happy Paddy's weekend lads.

it would kind of defeat the point of people coming on to this board and asking whats the best MA to do for X reason, because after the first poster gave an answer, none of us would be allowed to contradict him/her.
There is nothing wrong with criticism. Its how we learn and improve.
So one group criticises anothers claims. Well just back up your assertions.
There is no-one on this board stopping others from getting their opinion across (its very hard to cut across someone on a text based forum)

The only rule should be back up what you say. Not just throw your opinion about. Then we get arguments with resolutions instead of one side questioning the other, and the other having a hissy fit.

super_furry

Unless you do it with your bare hands, don't bother.

vasch_ro

lately I haven't been posting that much on the forum, and I do read all of the posts and threads , no matter what their about because I love martial arts.
I say keep us as one happy family thats what I like about this forum the great big mix!
(whats really scary is I thought Devore was off visiting Hammerhead Gym in Thailand , but he's still checkin up on us !!!!:) )

Lemming

TBH, the sadist side in me would cheer if this forum was split in two. I'm sick of reading cock-swinging MMA arguments every other post. There's a reason why I rarely ever post in this forum any more .. and a reason why I don't read it all that often either.

And that "Meath" thread is the perfect example. There are a lot of other names I haven't seen post in a while that I would hazard a guess don't post for reasons similar to mine (and some with whom I train and have freely admitted to having the same opinion as myself). In short, I can't be bothered dealing with idiots trying to justify their own use of time. I'll simply get on with what I'm doing instead of dealing with someone who is nursing an inferiority complex and trying to swing their cock about to make up for it.

Someone posted a while back with a very innocent question of how come it's almost all MMA guys posting in this forum and Millionaire answered telling why. Quite a fitting moment of commentary that speaks volumes of where this forum is today. Not in a good place.

So, with that in mind, I propose that they rename this to the MMA forum and be done with it. I am fed up, p*ssed off, and f*cking irate that a domineering (and yes, that's exactly what the MMA users have become - "domineering") culture has been allowed to develop unchecked and alienated many users.

Christ, it's like a f*cking private members club.

astfgl

You know something, i changed my mind, split the damn forum. I'm sick of bullsh!t posts from chicken sh!t anti MMA posters like Lemming who instead of answering the criticism from MMA posters, just hijack threads with their incescant whinging about how everything is an MMA versus the world argument.

Lemming

astfgl wrote:

You know something, i changed my mind, split the damn forum. I'm sick of bullsh!t posts from chicken sh!t anti MMA posters like Lemming who instead of answering the criticism from MMA posters, just hijack threads with their incescant whinging about how everything is an MMA versus the world argument.

astfgl, I'm not anti-MMA. I'm anti-cock-swinging. You train your way, I'll train my way. What I'm "whinging" about is what is a simple lack of fundamental respect for other arts that has been displayed.

The fact that you just don't get it kind of underscores my argument.

dlofnep

Lemming wrote:

TBH, the sadist side in me would cheer if this forum was split in two. I'm sick of reading cock-swinging MMA arguments every other post. There's a reason why I rarely ever post in this forum any more .. and a reason why I don't read it all that often either.

And that "Meath" thread is the perfect example. There are a lot of other names I haven't seen post in a while that I would hazard a guess don't post for reasons similar to mine (and some with whom I train and have freely admitted to having the same opinion as myself). In short, I can't be bothered dealing with idiots trying to justify their own use of time. I'll simply get on with what I'm doing instead of dealing with someone who is nursing an inferiority complex and trying to swing their cock about to make up for it.

Someone posted a while back with a very innocent question of how come it's almost all MMA guys posting in this forum and Millionaire answered telling why. Quite a fitting moment of commentary that speaks volumes of where this forum is today. Not in a good place.

So, with that in mind, I propose that they rename this to the MMA forum and be done with it. I am fed up, p*ssed off, and f*cking irate that a domineering (and yes, that's exactly what the MMA users have become - "domineering") culture has been allowed to develop unchecked and alienated many users.

Christ, it's like a f*cking private members club.

I can see why you are upset - but you think that everyone is posting or suggesting MMA or what not as an option to boast, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

I still think we should seperate these forums. What's the worst that can happen? If someone here wants to check out MMA stuff, they have the option of going to the MMA forum, if someone wants to check out traditional MA's, they can just go to that forum.

It gives people the CHOICE to read what they want. I think it's a good way for everyone to get back into what they want to do. The trad posters can discuss what they want, and the MMA guys can discuss what they want. Everyone is happy.

Will the forums slow down a bit? Only a trial run could tell. And for someone to even suggest that a trial run is alot of work for the admins, they are lieing. It's a simply function within vbulletin to add a subforum and in this case, I think it's needed. If it doesn't work out, they can just merge the forums back together - no harm done.

Personally, I'm kind of tired of people accusing me of hijacking threads for merely suggesting options for arts.

MrO

astfgl wrote:

You know something, i changed my mind, split the damn forum. I'm sick of bullsh!t posts from chicken sh!t anti MMA posters like Lemming who instead of answering the criticism from MMA posters, just hijack threads with their incescant whinging about how everything is an MMA versus the world argument.

Lovely - ever considered becoming a mod? You could look after both forums

Musashi

I think the forum should be left as is.

Reasoned arguement never hurt anyone, sometimes it gets heated but try Politic.ie for size and tell me what heated is!

If some people want another forum to chat, in Paul (PMA-IRE) has Martial Arts Ireland, with seperate forums for every style except maybe Savate/Boxe Francaise! Is it slower than this site? Currently yes, but it has been gaining momentum and is now one of the regular sites I log in to. I still read here, skipping that which holds no interest for me. Dlofneps Judo thread was a must read since I know him though Sometimes threads and info crop up here that's not duplicated over on MAI, so it's worth it to me to browse both.

It would seem an easy answer for anyone wanting a site split to just use a pre-existing site rather than messing with this one? I am not trolling for numbers here, it's just an idea you can take on board or dismiss as you like.

damo

Fair enough, i have nothing against anyone practicing any kind of martial art, the only thing that gets me is when someone asks for advice on which martial art to take up and the words 'self defence' are used. That is all.

It's irresponsible or idiotic and potentially dangerous to endorse a particular type of martial art as having 'self defence' qualities - when that art has been proven to have no effectiveness at all in a real situation.

I think that is where most of the arguents originate and therefore having seperate boards wouldnt be such a bad idea.

meh

RuggieBear

astfgl wrote:

You know something, i changed my mind, split the damn forum. I'm sick of bullsh!t posts from chicken sh!t anti MMA posters like Lemming who instead of answering the criticism from MMA posters, just hijack threads with their incescant whinging about how everything is an MMA versus the world argument.

personal abuse.
banned. pm me in a week and i'll unban you.

pma-ire

i like it the way it is!

this question has been bashed about before again and again. but it's fine the way it is for what it is.

adonis

i also just read this forum.

I posted once about Selling TaeKwanDo Pads that were too big for me.

I spelt TaeKwanDo with an E at the end ( a spelling error).
I had only started TKD about 1 month...anyway, a load of people came down all heavy saying that "its not spelt with an E...blah blah" and saying that i showed no respect etc.. etc...
As a virgin poster and someone that was starting to learn martial arts i was pretty shocked.

Id suggest a sticky be put up with all the arts listed and their pros and cons.
The TKD by Jon, BJJ by John Kavanagh etc etc...As these are the most qualified that post on this board and are thus the most qualified to speak

that would perhaps stop the arguments that occur when someone comes on asking what martial art is good for what...?

Tim_Murphy

I reckon a few people need to chill a bit!

I can where some people are coming from, but at the end of the day it you're going to make claims about somthing, re self defence or whatever else, then be prepared to be able to back it up. If you can't do that without getting annoyed or agitated then maybe you need to think about what you are doing a bit more. I don't bother getting involved much in these type of conversations anymore, just because I've heard it all before and don't really have anything new to contribute.

I spelt TaeKwanDo with an E at the end ( a spelling error).
I had only started TKD about 1 month...anyway, a load of people came down all heavy saying that "its not spelt with an E...blah blah" and saying that i showed no respect etc.. etc...
As a virgin poster and someone that was starting to learn martial arts i was pretty shocked.

You disrespectful heathen! Missed that thread. Some TKD folk get up on their high horses about that kind of stuff alright. I've seen people have arguments about whether it's spelled Taekwon-Do or Tae Kwon Do! :rolleyes:

Tim_Murphy

The TKD by Jon

Jon's not the most qualified to talk about TKD! :rolleyes: He's only a 2nd Dan!!!

pma-ire

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Jon's not the most qualified to talk about TKD! :rolleyes: He's only a 2nd Dan!!!

did'int he do his 3rd dan ? or is that this year??

Valmont

Clive wrote:

like a pair of knickers flapping slowly in the wind.

Beautiful.

If I didn't know the self defence/martial arts forum, this thread makes it seem like every discussion inevitably descends into an acrimonious tma v mma debate. It happens every now and then, it's not a big deal anyway. At least I don't think so.

A lot of the MMA guys have tma experience (including myself) and can offer their advice, opinions whatever to threads like 'karate in Bray' or 'Kenpo in city centre'. I don't want to be jumping back and forward between two forums. Especially because I still have a 56k modem:eek:

BobbyOLeary

I hadn't been on this in a while so I missed all of this stuff. Weird reading through an argument after its finished. Anywho, this whole argument really made me laugh, not at anyone or their particular art or its effectiveness or their mother but at the idea of closing down a forum due to too many arguments!

I thought that was the idea of a forum, debates (in which i hold a masters degree), hell I joined this forum to partake in a debate about Kenpo! I thought this was brilliant, a chance to talk to many other martial artists from tons of disciplines. Thats how I still see this place!

Segregating a forum just so people don't have to argue their MA's case is a bit pointless I think. Worse than pointless, it sidesteps the whole issue. Kind of like how you can't have a debate about women in the workplace without being labeled a sexist by at least one person, so you don't have the debate at all.

I, personally (who else?), would leave this forum if the debates on here stopped. I can read Irish Fighter for advertisements, I come on here for discussion.

Niall Keane

I'd like to see a split, personally I practice a TMA, I don't think anyone here on boards who knows me would question the effectivness of what I do, but TMA V MMA is not my point.
Basically, I love Chinese Martial Arts, I have posted hear before, once at 12am to find the next day by 6pm all of page 1 was touching on MMA. Thats great for your sport and I'm glad when any sport gets such interest, but recently I havn't being posting as I know that I personaly wouldn't trawl past 1 or 2 pages, and I guess there is a lot of people who similarly haven't got hours to do so, so I feel that any posting is a waste of time, before anyone notices it, it's pages away.
No GAA fan would buy a paper with 20 pages on Rugby with maybe an occasional GAA article? Would they even look at it, let alone contribute to it?
I'm sure we'll all be able to contribute to general discussions, but if there isn't a spilt / (option of a TMA board), I can't see this forum holding any further interest for those interested in TMAs.

Millionaire

just pop over to PMA Irelands new forum.... thats a much better idea, and all the sections sub forums are there, so you do not have to look at the stuff that does not interest you....

StrateBlastJim

I do BJJ not MMA, Jui jitsu is a traditional martial art, but most people here seem to think that over the last 100 years it has changed by coming to us all from brazil.

I have heard many people in training claim they came up with a new move, only for them later realise that its in every judo/jui jitsu book ever writen.

Unfortunetly the "MMA" guys seem to have allowed this MMA tag, along with the "TMA" guys accepting a TMA tag.

The difference is not the styles, its (and most of the older posters here will see this coming) the TRAINING METHODS. We have all read through arguements where john has tried, in vain it seems to convince people that he for one is willing to learn from any style. However if you show him a lock or move he will want you to prove it works while he trys to prevent it.

This makes sense to him, and personally to me to.

It seems to me that many of the "MMA" guys here are begining to forget that its not our style that we believe to be better, but the fact that we want resisting opponents to practice against.

As for threads going off topic, i believe it is a small number of the "MMA" (clive hates that tag) guys who seem to be on all those types of threads, and IMHO they seem to be among the least qualified to talk about mma etc.

Now im probably pissing these few off, but it seems they are still in the man i was tricked for all those years phase, if you notice the likes of kav, mark leonard, the shane, twokingmick, roper and tim murphy tend not to even post on the threads that go down that, and if they do its to dismiss EVERYONE as taking things too far.

Roper wrote:

Europe (the band that is) had a song called "Ninja Survive".

I have nothing else to contribute, good day.

From ninja thread.

Tim_Murphy wrote:

I reckon a few people need to chill a bit!

From above.

To the guys who dont do mma, maybe think who is this person ruining my thread?? does his/her opinion mean anything to me, and is he/she really off topic and if so maybe bring it to the attention of the mods.

To the guys who do train mma/bjj/thai/judo etc. dont be so quick to start posting, don't be needlessly pushy, we dont have to try to convince everyone on every thread about MMA's supposed greatness. Its perfectly alright if someone asks for clubs/"best style" mention mma/bjj/thai clubs nearby/the TRAINING METHODS, but stop putting down other arts, the experts on here from those arts obviously enjoy them and so get alot out of them.

Sorry about the post guys, im bored in work, and its been awhile since john brought up training methods, and at the moment hes away so someone had to remind a few mma guys why they are argueing.

I believe that the board should stay as is, but everyone need to respect each other a little more.

If you notice on the other thread about why people started its mostly cause training looked fun. so if all we get is a good time then everyone should be happy.

Jim
-Likes to talk........Alot.

yomchi

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Jon's not the most qualified to talk about TKD! :rolleyes: He's only a 2nd Dan!!!

Damn u Murphy for dragging me back here

It's nice to note someone appreciates the work I put into ITF TKD!

If your looking for advice on TKD and info every pattern up to Yoo Sin..I'm your man :cool:

Paul, 3rd dan in June - Bulgaria!

columok

I click on "Post Reply" knowing that the crux of what i'm gonna say has been repeated by the sensible amongst my good friends here on boards. Good recent posts by Clive and Jim btw. As for Roper well "The Ninja Squad" or "American Ninja" are about as ninjatastic as they get

MMA guys: what is that? What's in a label? What's in a box? What's in semantics? My attitude to martial arts training is the same as my attitude towards religion, science and most other areas of life. I value empiricism, reason and loath unfounded claims. I've practised and continue to practice traditional martial arts for about 7 years now. I must be on the TMA side. So many times over so many years we've debated the futility of labels and they keep coming back...

I used to value questioning every ridiculous claim by every ridiculous person. I think we all remember some of the more enjoyable claims: Larry Tatum groundfighting, Magick Lightning bolts and so forth. Many of us know the feeling of being gypped by poor training methods and the desire to sing from the rooftops that it's all an illusory image based sham. I don't feel the need to wander into a catholic church and start explaining to everyone how unnecessary and illogical it all is. If a catholic (religious person) starts debating with me on the other hand well thats something else entirely.

Without healthy vigorous debate this board would stagnate to nothingness again. However when people are making stupid ignorant posts* then they just build up defensive barriers. Debate with the willing. Those who aren't ready for rational reasonable debate shouldn't always be dragged forcefully into the light. The brain will wake up. Give it a chance.



*MMA ownz TMA. Thai rulez !!!1!!!!!