roundabout question

mkennedy

hi.
I have a roundabout query that someone might be able to answer...

i'm about to enter a small roundabout -no vehicles on it but there's a guy approaching fast from the road on my right (he's about 10 yards from roundabout but approaching fast while i'm about to enter roundabout).

I continue on to roundabout expecting him to slow down/stop as I got onto roundabout before him (and he should yield to traffic on roundabout ie me, right?)

however he continues at same speed onto roundabout without stopping because nobody is coming from his own RIGHT.

at this stage i'm still completing my turn on the roundabout and he nearly t-bones me from the right braking heavily.

who is in the wrong in this scenario?

timmywex

well, ghe didnt obey the yield/stop sign so he is in the wrong

BrianD3

This question was debated in this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036563

I don't think there was any definite conclusion though.

LFCFan

Traffic coming from the Right always has Right of Way on a Roundabout.

Jimoslimos

I'd disagree. The OP would be in the wrong. Just because you reach the roundabout first doesn't mean you have right of way - give way to traffic approaching from the right (don't need to be already on the roundabout)

scaldybelt

I would have thought that if you saw him approaching at speed from the right, then even though they weren't on the roundabout when you could have entered it, 10 yards isn't a lot of space for someone to stop - even if they wanted to - at a small roundabout!!

My guess is it would be hard to argue for either party in front of a Garda!
They could argue that you didn't yield to traffic from the right.
You'd be arguing that they were speeding - but yet you knew that as you entered the roundabout, hence an accident could have been avoided by you stopping.

Only my tuppence worth (and I've been in both scenarios previously).

dil999

You give way to traffic coming from your right. Not traffic on the roundabout. Yield does not mean stopping or slowing down. It means giving the right of way to traffic coming from your right. If there is nothing coming you keep going.

You obviously saw him coming from your right. he had the right of way and you should have yielded. If he had hit you in the side you would have been in the wrong.

Alun

Jimoslimos wrote:

I'd disagree. The OP would be in the wrong. Just because you reach the roundabout first doesn't mean you have right of way - give way to traffic approaching from the right (don't need to be already on the roundabout)

I disagree with your disagreement. The rule, as I understand it is that traffic joining a roundabout must yield to traffic already on the roundabout, which of necessity is coming from the right, but that's not the point.

Essentially as far as priorities go, a roundabout is nothing more than another section of road, albeit circular in shape and one-way, with lot's of T-junctions coming off it. To say that you should give way to people coming from the right, who haven't yet joined the roundabout makes no sense if you look at it like that. I mean, would you give way to someone joining the road you're coming onto at a T-junction who was joining at another T-junction 20m down the road?

The RoTR says

The following should also be carefully noted:
You should: Treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of
way to traffic approaching on the roundabout.

BrianD3

According to UK law
"Vehicular traffic approaching a roundabout should give way to vehicular traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout"

That seems pretty clear.

Some of the responses to this thread are pretty scary.

Jimoslimos

Well I'd disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement:)

Alun wrote:

Essentially as far as priorities go, a roundabout is nothing more than another section of road, albeit circular in shape and one-way, with lot's of T-junctions coming off it.

If the roundabout is just another section of road, then you should give way to all traffic approaching from the right (on or off the roundabout). Especially since this was a mini-roundabout there was no way the OP could have made the turn without clearing the road quick enough.

dil999

I think were covered by Irish Law

According to the Irish rules of the road:

For a roundabout it says:
"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of way to traffic already on the roundabout."

For a junction:
"Where roads forming a junction are of equal importance you must yield to traffic on your right."

its a moot point to give way to traffic that is ahead of you on the roundabout.

Alun

dil999 wrote:

I think were covered by Irish Law

.. which are (for these purposes) the same as UK law, except they word things much better, and less ambiguously than we do

For a roundabout it says:
"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of way to traffic already on the roundabout."

Yes, that's what I said .. don't see how that supports your point?

For a junction:
"Where roads forming a junction are of equal importance you must yield to traffic on your right."

This is intended for situations like in housing estates, where there are no other road markings indicating who has priority, such as a Yield or Stop sign.

Alun

Jimoslimos wrote:

If the roundabout is just another section of road, then you should give way to all traffic approaching from the right (on or off the roundabout).

How can traffic not actually on the roundabout be approaching from the right? And how far back from the Yield sign at the approach to the roundabout do they have to be exactly to be considered to be "approaching". You could be waiting all day to join a roundabout if you to took that to it's (il)logical conclusion.

Try thinking about the situation I described with two T-junctions joining the same road within 20m of each other, you wouldn't consider a car pulling up to the other T-junction as coming from the right, would you? Doesn't make any sense.

dil999

Alun wrote:

.. which are (for these purposes) the same as UK law, except they word things much better, and less ambiguously than we do


Yes, that's what I said .. don't see how that supports your point?

This is intended for situations like in housing estates, where there are no other road markings indicating who has priority, such as a Yield or Stop sign.

Its intended for all junctions, the signage just reaffirms the rule. Roundabouts do not always have yield signs. you treat them as a junction. you give way to traffic coming from your right whether they are on the round about or approaching the roundabout. Its very clear.

Can I ask if you have a full licence?

Dill

yayamark

looking at these answers i se why our insurance premiums are sky high compared to other eu countries.
if your on the roudabout u control it
if you see a car coming at speed on to the roundabout for gods sake wait for the fool to go in front of you
its all about common sense not legal jargon to get all tied up on.

dil999

[QUOTE=
if your on the roudabout u control it
[/QUOTE]


Not true. If you barrell onto the roundabout when its not safe to do so because a car is approaching from the right and you are on the roundabout whe he ploughs in the side of you then you are in the wrong.

The simple rule is give way to traffic coming from your right. be that at a junction or on a roundabout.

I drive a lot and the amount of people I see out there who cant safely use roundabouts is really really scary.

Alun

dil999 wrote:

Can I ask if you have a full licence?

I have a full licence, yes, and I got it in a country that had roundabouts long before 99.9% of Irish drivers had even seen one, let alone knew what they were for, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

Traffic that has not yet joined the carriageway of the roundabout is quite simply not on the roundabout, and cannot in any sane, reasoned way, be considered to be coming from your right .. they're on a different section of road.

I'm off to install my new LCD telly .. much more interesting than discussing the rules of the road with people who haven't got a clue. Bye!

yayamark

Not true. If you barrell onto the roundabout when its not safe to do so because a car is approaching from the right and you are on the roundabout whe he ploughs in the side of you then you are in the wrong.

who said anything about barrelling in to a roundabout?

you have misunderstood me completely!

if you are on the roundabout u control it people can only get on when you have made your way around

yayamark

didn't know lcd telles needed ti be installed?:rolleyes:

frodi

As above, if he was going so fast that you could not clear the roundabout before he entered then you should slow down and give way. Common sense rather than legal rights & wrongs. You might be legally right and therefore win the post mortem.

dil999

Alun wrote:

I have a full licence, yes, and I got it in a country that had roundabouts long before 99.9% of Irish drivers had even seen one, let alone knew what they were for, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

Traffic that has not yet joined the carriageway of the roundabout is quite simply not on the roundabout, and cannot in any sane, reasoned way, be considered to be coming from your right .. they're on a different section of road.

I'm off to install my new LCD telly .. much more interesting than discussing the rules of the road with people who haven't got a clue. Bye!

If its coming from your right its coming from your right, be it on the roundabout or approaching the roundabout, and if it has to brake to avoid hitting into the side of you then you are absolutely in the wrong.

Also its advisable to follow the rules of the road in the country that you are driving rather than the one you originally got your licence in :rolleyes:

(Were those roundabouts you refer to, the ones that the Romans built? )

Enjoy your new Telly

mkennedy

thanks lads for your replies - didn't think it would start such a heated debate, I thought there was a black and white answer tbh.

after reading this and the other recent thread from what I can see, there is no definite consensus on this (or am I wrong?)

I suppose there's 2 issues:
1) the legal issue where I still suspect in an accident I would not be in the wrong (you yield to traffic already on the roundabout only, nothing about traffic down the road approaching the roundabout afaik).

2) the common-sense approach of avoiding an accident by leaving the guy off (even though he's wrong??) and waiting a couple of seconds.

tbh in the past I used to think like a lot of the posters here who say "yield to everything on your right and if nothing's coming from the right fück everyone else"

but now I tend to think the other way ie you need to yield to those who got on the roundabout before you...

Sandwich

mkennedy wrote:

I suppose there's 2 issues:
1) the legal issue where I still suspect in an accident I would not be in the wrong (you yield to traffic already on the roundabout only, nothing about traffic down the road approaching the roundabout afaik).

2) the common-sense approach of avoiding an accident by leaving the guy off (even though he's wrong??) and waiting a couple of seconds.

Surprised at your conclusion. Many are making the erroneous analysis for two reasons :

1) they reason that because the roundabout is a 'road' and the other car is not yet on that road(ie. roundabout) they are therfore not 'on your right', therfore you have the right of way.
This is incorrect
2) they take the correct statement "cars on the rb before you have the right of way" to a false negative extrapolation - "cars not on the rb before you do not have the right of way"
Again incorrect to do so.

If you do not make that mistake, and instead correctly regard that the car is on your right, then you end up with your point 2) above- your common sense approach follows automatically - and according to the rules of the road!

dil999

Get out the "rules of the road book" and read it. There is no abiguity no confusion. They even have nice pictures to explain things

"Where roads forming a junction are of equal importance you must yield to traffic on your right."

"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction"

You yield to traffic coming from your right, whether or not they are on the roundabout or not. If you dont believe you can enter the junction (or roundabout) and be through it safely before the car coming from you right approaches then you yield to that car.

Sorry to be so in your face about this one, but as I said I drive a lot and I see so many near misses at roundabouts its scary. Particularly the small ones.

If you don't know the rules of the road you should not be driving.

dil999

to Sandwich

Thanks God! I thought I was alone

Wishbone Ash

dil999 wrote:

Get out the "rules of the road book" and read it. There is no abiguity no confusion

At the front of each edition it states: "This booklet is not an interpretation of the law"

mkennedy

apologies for my uncertainty but i'd just like to get a definitive answer- that's why I posted

however you have to admit there is disagreement/uncertainty/opinion in the responses as well (apart from a couple of posters)

ok so the issue is whether the rb is to be treated as a junction or a road in itself.
alun says road.
dil999 says junction.

tbh dil999 I am actually reconsidering your "rb as junction" argument - this was how i used to think before as well.

btw, just another query: what about cars stationery on a rb with cars coming from the right.
should such stationery cars not be on the rb in the first place so as to let cars from the right thru.

mkennedy

mkennedy wrote:

btw, just another query: what about cars stationery on a rb with cars coming from the right.
should such stationery cars not be on the rb in the first place so as to let cars from the right thru.

Assuming that the traffic is backed up from another obstruction on one of the exits from the rb, then merge in turn joining but leave a gap for traffic to cross and leave via other exits that are not blocked.

Wishbone Ash

mkennedy wrote:

what about cars stationery on a rb with cars coming from the right.
should such stationery cars not be on the rb in the first place so as to let cars from the right thru.

In roundabouts where this is a regular occurance, a yellow box is sometimes used to alleviate the problem. The main roundabout at Dublin Airport is an example of where it is in place.

TJJP

October 2006, Rules of the Road, post public consultation, pre-publication, summary extract:

ROUNDABOUTS

The specific rule relating to roundabouts is contained in Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997- article 15 requires that “a driver shall enter a roundabout by turning to the left”

You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of way to traffic already on the roundabout.

As you approach a roundabout you should take note and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should

• Decide as early as possible which exit you need to take,
• Mirrors - Signal – Mirrors- Manoeuvre at all stages,
• Signal your intentions in good time as to give other road users appropriate warnings,
• Get into the correct lane,
• Adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions,
• Be aware of the speed and position of all the traffic around you.

When you reach the roundabout you should;

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights,
• pay attention to vehicles already on the roundabout; be aware of their signals and try to judge their intentions,
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off,
• be aware of the presence of cyclists/motorcyclist alongside you before moving off.

mkennedy

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In roundabouts where this is a regular occurance, a yellow box is sometimes used to alleviate the problem. The main roundabout at Dublin Airport is an example of where it is in place.

just wondering then about the legalities of someone stationery on a roundabout (yellow box or not)and a guy coming from the right as I described in my first post is unable to stop in time and broadsides them.

seems the guy from the right would be at fault then I suppose.

whereas if you're moving slowly on the roundabout behind other traffic there's no defence-you got to get out of his way, right?

Wishbone Ash

mkennedy wrote:

just wondering then about the legalities of someone stationery on a roundabout (yellow box or not)and a guy coming from the right as I described in my first post is unable to stop in time and broadsides them.

seems the guy from the right would be at fault then I suppose.

whereas if you're moving slowly on the roundabout behind other traffic there's no defence-you got to get out of his way, right?

Common sense should prevail. A driver entering a roundabout with stationary traffic should have adapted his speed to suit the conditions. For example, a green light means you can proceed only if your way is clear and it is safe to do so.

shltter

Reading this thread makes me realise why our road deaths are so high

People in this country are obsessed with being in the right rather than avoiding an accident.

For the record you should yield to all traffic approaching from the right and all traffic already on the roundabout (ie if someone has already entered the roundabout but is driving slow then you are not entitled to drive into them because you are coming from their right)

If you arrive at the roundabout at the same time you should let the traffic from your right clear the roundabout first unless you can safely clear the roundabout without interfering with them.

Above all you should try to avoid any collision even if you believe that you are in the right.

Wishbone Ash

shltter wrote:

Reading this thread makes me realise why our road deaths are so high

I was thinking the same thing.

shltter wrote:

People in this country are obsessed with being in the right rather than avoiding an accident.

Above all you should try to avoid any collision even if you believe that you are in the right.

I'm sure anyone who frequently drives slow and heavy vehicles will have experienced situations where, on entering a clear roundabout, some little príck will come shooting in from the right learning on his horn. Do these morons not realsie that, when the truck/bus/tractor etc. commenced it's manoeuvre onto the roundabout, there was nothing coming from the right!

Alun

Let me get this straight. You're all saying that if you're approaching a roundabout, you're slowing down, preparing to stop if necessary, looking to your right and you see a vehicle approaching the roundabout from an exit to your right, that you'll always stop and let them join first? Even if it's a large roundabout, and there's a gap big enough that you could easily join the roundabout in front of them without inconveniencing them in any way?

Now don't get me wrong, if I'm approaching a roundabout and I see someone approaching the roundabout who clearly doesn't look like he's going to stop and is just going to plough on through regardless, I'll stop. I'm not about to sacrifice my life for a point of law, despite some rather snide comments on this thread to the contrary. I'm not that stupid, really I'm not.

Jimoslimos

Alun wrote:

I have a full licence, yes, and I got it in a country that had roundabouts long before 99.9% of Irish drivers had even seen one, let alone knew what they were for, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

I also got my full license in that same country. My understanding is that if you perform a manoeuveur that causes another driver (no matter how dangerously they are driving) to take evasive action (emergency brake, swerve, etc) you are in the wrong.

I think the OP's query was in regard to mini-roundabouts which tend to be treated differently to normal ones. Example; Driver turning right at a mini-rb will observe traffic coming towards him rather than traffic from the right

shltter wrote:

Reading this thread makes me realise why our road deaths are so high

People in this country are obsessed with being in the right rather than avoiding an accident.

For the record you should yield to all traffic approaching from the right and all traffic already on the roundabout (ie if someone has already entered the roundabout but is driving slow then you are not entitled to drive into them because you are coming from their right)

If you arrive at the roundabout at the same time you should let the traffic from your right clear the roundabout first unless you can safely clear the roundabout without interfering with them.

Above all you should try to avoid any collision even if you believe that you are in the right.

Agreed - excellent post

Jimoslimos

Alun wrote:

you'll always stop and let them join first? Even if it's a large roundabout, and there's a gap big enough that you could easily join the roundabout in front of them without inconveniencing them in any way?

No. As I said in my previous post, if you can join the roundabout without causing the other driver to take evasive action then that's fine. In such way its similar to a normal junction where traffic is joining a major road from a minor one. Traffic approaching is not an issue as long as you can perform the manoueveur safely.

Alun

Jimoslimos wrote:

I also got my full license in that same country. My understanding is that if you perform a manoeuvre that causes another driver (no matter how dangerously they are driving) to take evasive action (emergency brake, swerve, etc) you are in the wrong.

Agree 100%, but that wasn't really the point being argued was it? I still maintain that in many instances it is perfectly safe to enter a roundabout when there is someone else approaching the roundabout (i.e. not yet on it) from the right. There will also be many instances, depending on the speed of the other driver, the size of the roundabout, the distance between the two exits in question and a host of other criteria when it will not be. Surely that's the whole thing about "yielding" or "giving way" whichever way you want to phrase it, performing your manoeuvre in such a way as to not cause the driver of the other vehicle any inconvenience by making him brake or slow down unnecessarily. In that respect it's no different to simply turning out onto a major road at a T-junction, you judge the distances and speeds involved and make your judgement.

I got the impression that some posters were arguing that whatever the circumstances, that if you're at a roundabout waiting to join, and there's a car approaching the roundabout from the right that you should allow them to join first. Again, in some circumstances that may be a wise decision, but in general all it does is waste roundabout "bandwidth".

I think the OP's query was in regard to mini-roundabouts which tend to be treated differently to normal ones. Example; Driver turning right at a mini-rb will observe traffic coming towards him rather than traffic from the right.

Also agree 100%. "Official" mini-roundabouts or even just "normal" ones that are very small, or have exits very close to one another require slightly different treatment.

dil999

Alun wrote:

Agree 100%, but that wasn't really the point being argued was it? I still maintain that in many instances it is perfectly safe to enter a roundabout when there is someone else approaching the roundabout (i.e. not yet on it) from the right. There will also be many instances, depending on the speed of the other driver, the size of the roundabout, the distance between the two exits in question and a host of other criteria when it will not be. Surely that's the whole thing about "yielding" or "giving way" whichever way you want to phrase it, performing your manoeuvre in such a way as to not cause the driver of the other vehicle any inconvenience by making him brake or slow down unnecessarily. In that respect it's no different to simply turning out onto a major road at a T-junction, you judge the distances and speeds involved and make your judgement.

I got the impression that some posters were arguing that whatever the circumstances, that if you're at a roundabout waiting to join, and there's a car approaching the roundabout from the right that you should allow them to join first. Again, in some circumstances that may be a wise decision, but in general all it does is waste roundabout "bandwidth".

Also agree 100%. "Official" mini-roundabouts or even just "normal" ones that are very small, or have exits very close to one another require slightly different treatment.

Not sure if you a referring to me there, If so I didn't mean to give that impression. I think we are actually agreeing

as I said in an earlier post:

"You yield to traffic coming from your right, whether or not they are on the roundabout or not. If you dont believe you can enter the junction (or roundabout) and be through it safely before the car coming from you right approaches then you yield to that car."

the corrollary being that if you feel it is safe to continue through the rb you do so.

shltter wrote:

People in this country are obsessed with being in the right rather than avoiding an accident.

While I agree with your post 100% I think its really important that people are crystal clear on the the rules of the road. Its not just about being in the right.
If everyone followed them you would alway know what other drivers are going to do in any given situation, and hence the number of accidents would be drastically reduced.

I got my first drivers licence many years ago in the US (west coast) where they have very few roundabouts, but almost everyone obeys the rules of the road and it is a country where its always a pleasure to drive, with the exception of Manahattan.) I also did my test here (many years ago ) and while the test is much more technical, it yields a lot of very poor drivers

Alun

dil999 wrote:

"You yield to traffic coming from your right, whether or not they are on the roundabout or not. If you dont believe you can enter the junction (or roundabout) and be through it safely before the car coming from you right approaches then you yield to that car."

the corrollary being that if you feel it is safe to continue through the rb you do so.

I think we actually agree too, it's just that I was being somewhat pedantic in my interpretation of the phrase "yield". I still say you can't really "yield" to someone who hasn't actually joined the roundabout yet since they're not yet on the bit of road, the roundabout itself, that you have to yield to ... if you get my drift. What you can, and indeed should, do is anticipate that by the time you yourself join the roundabout they would have already joined it themselves and therefore be classed as traffic coming from the right. That's not really "yielding" in my book, it's anticipation and common sense, but as I said, I'm a pedantic so-and-so sometimes

BTW if you want real excitement, try some of the roundabouts that can still be found on the continent (which are fortunately a dying breed) where traffic coming onto the roundabout has priority, and traffic on the roundabout has to stop to let them on.

dil999

I've driven in France a few times, and that can be fun, especially in a manual when you find youself reaching down with your left hand and grabbing the window winder instead of the gear which are on the other side.

How's your new telly?

Alun

dil999 wrote:

I've driven in France a few times, and that can be fun, especially in a manual when you find yourself reaching down with your left hand and grabbing the window winder instead of the gear which are on the other side.

Although I was born and bred in England, I lived on the continent for 21 years before moving here 6 years ago, 13+ years in Holland and 7+ in Germany, so I've plenty of experience of driving on the both sides of the road. I have to say that I had few problems adapting either when over in the UK on holiday, or when I moved here. What did cause the most problems was that I always walked to the wrong side of the car to get in! .. but once I was driving it all slotted back into place again.

How's your new telly?

Brilliant .. mind you it should be for what it cost Now I'll be able to watch the Australian Grand Prix in luxury!

BrianD3

I'd agree with Alun. The roundabout is its own section of road and it also has at least one junction so that may be what the ROTR is referring to when it mentions junctions. The roundabout is a road with one or more side roads/junctions. The difference between the roundabout and any other road with side roads is that the roundabout is a loop. Traffic on the roundabout/main road has priority over vehicles wishing to enter the roundabout/main road. If someone barrels up to a roundabout and hits a vehicle that has already entered it then it's the same as someone entering a main road from a side road and hitting someone who has previously entered from another side road.

The general yield to vehicles from your right rule is as Alun says a general rule for when priority may not be clear.

If you are driving along a main road and you come to a junction which is like an inverted "Y" and you are on the left of the inverted Y then traffic from the minor road is approaching from your right. That doesn't mean they have priority over you. So this rule does not apply in all situations as some posters seem to be implying.

I agree that it is better to be safe than right and dead and I stated this in the original thread. However you still have to assume some competence in other drivers. Otherwise you'd have to come to a dead stop every time you came to a junction while driving along a main road in case someone coming from the minor road decides to ignore their stop sign and keep going.

It would be interesting to see what would happen in a driving test if you were waiting to enter a roundabout and "Yielded" to a vehicle which was still a distance away from the roundabout but approaching fast from your right. I believe you would be marked down for not making progress.

Altreab

Alun wrote:

I think we actually agree too, it's just that I was being somewhat pedantic in my interpretation of the phrase "yield". I still say you can't really "yield" to someone who hasn't actually joined the roundabout yet since they're not yet on the bit of road, the roundabout itself, that you have to yield to ... if you get my drift. What you can, and indeed should, do is anticipate that by the time you yourself join the roundabout they would have already joined it themselves and therefore be classed as traffic coming from the right. That's not really "yielding" in my book, it's anticipation and common sense, but as I said, I'm a pedantic so-and-so sometimes

BTW if you want real excitement, try some of the roundabouts that can still be found on the continent (which are fortunately a dying breed) where traffic coming onto the roundabout has priority, and traffic on the roundabout has to stop to let them on.

Now how about been pedantic on this roundabout
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm

Alun

Altreab wrote:

Now how about been pedantic on this roundabout
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm

I've actually driven round that one. Not as difficult as you'd initially think if you imagine it being stretched out a bit when it then becomes just a big circular road with lots of individual roundabouts spread around it.

The "interesting" aspect of it is that if you say want, for example, to exit at the exit immediately to your right as you enter, you actually have two options. Either go all the way around the outside taking each little mini-roundabout in turn, or (the shorter option) take the second exit at the first mini roundabout , going around the inside of the main roundabout the 'wrong' way for a short distance, and then take the second exit at the second mini roundabout to exit. (Hope I've got that right!).

dil999

Alun wrote:

I've actually driven round that one. Not as difficult as you'd initially think if you imagine it being stretched out a bit when it then becomes just a big circular road with lots of individual roundabouts spread around it.

The "interesting" aspect of it is that if you say want, for example, to exit at the exit immediately to your right as you enter, you actually have two options. Either go all the way around the outside taking each little mini-roundabout in turn, or (the shorter option) take the second exit at the first mini roundabout , going around the inside of the main roundabout the 'wrong' way for a short distance, and then take the second exit at the second mini roundabout to exit. (Hope I've got that right!).

My Brain just exploded

Alun

dil999 wrote:

My Brain just exploded

Here's a page that shows it in a bit more detail. If you click on the "Bird's Eye View" link at the bottom of the page you can even see an aerial photo of the thing

mkennedy

BrianD3 wrote:

Traffic on the roundabout/main road has priority over vehicles wishing to enter the roundabout/main road. If someone barrels up to a roundabout and hits a vehicle that has already entered it then it's the same as someone entering a main road from a side road and hitting someone who has previously entered from another side road.

from what I discern from dil999's posts he is adamant that this is not the case.
his view seems to directly oppose the above.
there still seems to be disagrement on this tbh..

BrianD3

Reading back through the thread I now believe that dil999 has made a flawed argument.
The quote from ROTR:
"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of way to traffic already on the roundabout."
Does not support his POV, in fact it's the opposite.

And this combined with:"Where roads forming a junction are of equal importance you must yield to traffic on your right"
also does not support his POV either on its own or in conjunction with the earlier quote.

The whole point is that you treat a roundabout as a junction in that you yield to traffic already on the roundabout, as has already been stated this is the same principle as yielding to traffic on a main road when pulling out of a T junction. As for yielding to traffic on your right when roads at a junction are of equal importance - the latter is not the case for a roundabout. The roundabout itself is of "greater importance" than the roads leading on to it. And due to the fact that the roundabout is in a loop any vehicle on the roundabout could be said to be to the right of any vehicle waiting to join the roundabout from any side road - even if the vehicle on the roundabout is "ahead" of the vehicle waiting to join.

I can see this thread going around in circles so I'll go back to the original quote which I think sums it up best
"Vehicular traffic approaching a roundabout should give way to vehicular traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout"

dil999

BrianD3 wrote:

The roundabout itself is of "greater importance" than the roads leading on to it. And due to the fact that the roundabout is in a loop any vehicle on the roundabout could be said to be to the right of any vehicle waiting to join the roundabout from any side road - even if the vehicle on the roundabout is "ahead" of the vehicle waiting to join.

OMG! :eek:

From the rules of the road (again :rolleyes: )

"Where roads forming a junction are of equal importance you must yield to traffic on your right."

"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction"

A T junction is not a junction of equal importance, and is not relevant ot the argument. Read the rules of the road.

BrianD3

dil999 wrote:

"You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction"

Don't quote out of context please. The correct quote is:

You should treat the roundabout as a normal junction, which means you yield right of way to traffic already on the roundabout

When the ROTR refers to junctions and roundabout in the same sentence it is referring to traffic entering the roundabout in terms of yielding to traffic already on the roundabout.

A T junction is not a junction of equal importance adn is not relevant to teh argument

It is entirely relevant. A roundabout is not a junction of equal importance either. The presence of "yield" signs on entry is a giveaway here...as is the quote "Vehicular traffic approaching a roundabout should give way to vehicular traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout