paying for neighbour's electricity

pwd

update on this:

well we got another huge bill at the start of last month.
We've been busy. Got in touch with him this week and he admitted he had not done anything about changing the situation. Arranged to meet him this evening. My gf rang him to confirm that this afternoon and he said he wouldn't be over and that it was compliated to sort out with the esb - since they have him down as having 4 meters for 4 apartments - whereas actually there are 5 (or 6?) - so he wasn't going to change it in the near future. If we want to move out at the end of our lease grand (june) and if we make a reasonable suggestion for reimbursement for what has been paid so far ok too.

Seems dodgy as hell. Not chomping on the bit to move out as the rent is good, and as far as I know they are still generally unusally high in dublin at the moment. But also not wanting to have a load of hassle and ridiculous bills.

replytohere2004

could an electrician put one of those coin meters in the other flat?
€20 on ebay or even one of these yokes

Victor

I seriously think you need to up the ante on this and get a solicitor.

mukki

why don't you just move? sure god knows what other ways he is cutting costs,

sharing meter with a neighbour? just split it 70:30
lead pipes?, just run the tap for a few mins
abspestos roof? sure just wear a mask

pwd

The landlord's agent called yesterday and said that our neighbour had said she'd no hot water. I told him that the timeswitch for it was between the two flats in the hall - and that it had been set to 24hour. When we found this out we kept it off. It had been turned to 24hr a couple of times since and we had just turned it off -we don't know/talk to our neighbour and we are getting huge bills.
He said that they couldn't change the meters because the flat wasn't registered. I said it's not registered with the esb or it's not registered at all? He said pardon I repeated myself he said he didn't know.
He said that the esb wouldn't divide the house any more so that the landlord was going to rennovate the floor and convert it into one two-bedroom apartment when our lease runs out at the end of next month - and asked me if that was ok. I said he was giving me a lot of information at once and that we'd have to think about this.
Then he said they'd make sure we weren't out of pocket and that we could be compensated - he said the landlord would call yesterday evening to make a suggestion. He didn't call.

pwd

My gf rang the esb to check that the last bill was paid - he said he was going to pay that. It wasn't. Then she rang again to talk to someone in network supply.
They said that there would be no problem with installing another meter - and also that it's illegal to run two households from one meter. So the landlord was lying when he said they couldn't add another one.
Then my gf rang the landlord. He admitted that he was not allowed to have more than four apartments in the house, after having a court case with the neighbours. So he's admitted he's breaking the law and that the 5th apartment is not registered.
Even now he's quibbling about how much to repay us. He's caused a huge amount of hassle with all this. I intend to notify the relevant people - whoever they are - about this situation.

Agent J

You have him by the balls now it seems...

Forgive me if the questions have already been answered.

Are you registered with the PRTB?

www.prtb.ie

Now you would know this because you can check it with them and they would have sent you a letter to the registered address. IE whatever address you are at.

If he hasnt he can be done for that and if he has multiple places then he can be done for all of them. Now you can take a complaint to them even if he hasnt registered you with them but the beautiful part is that he cant take a complaint because he is the landlord.

Not to mention revenue.

If it was me personally i would play hard ball with this one if you are going to be leaving anyway.

You can also ring up the ESB and tell them you are moving and get them to change the name to your landlords name. I would suggest thinking about doing this asap as it moves responability from you to your landlord.

blah

Great story! Hooray for the little guy! Down with greeedy landlords!

(Edit: just realised this was posted ages ago)

pwd

Posted ages ago but still not resolved
Since then a strange man let himself into our apartment when my gf was there alone and asleep - scared the carp out of her. He was mortified - an electrician the landlord had told to go over and given a key.
And he cut off our hot water.
He said to move out by the end of june. He didn't give us written notice so we don't have to.
Here's a draft of an email to him. We'll send him something tonight:


Further to our discussion with you, you have made no effort to come to some arrangement with us. Rather you seem to be trying to bully us.

-You gave a man a key to our apartment and told him to enter without telling us. He came in while (my gf) was alone and asleep and scared her quite badly.

-You appear to have cut off our hot water - and our cold water temporarily. We told you we have not been using the hot water. This does not mean you should cut it off without asking or even informing us.

-You told us another meter could not be installed in the house. When we contacted the esb this was revealed to be untrue.

We will be leaving apartment (address) by the end of July. This is our 42-day written notice as required by law. http://threshold.ie/menu.asp?menu=83.

We have been in touch with threshold. Both advisors we spoke to were shocked at this situation and strongly urged us to take it up with the PRTB. Even now we would rather avoid the stress associated with what we are told is a drawn out process, especially when dealing with unregistered landlords. However if we are not satisfied with your response we will do so. We have given you far more than a fair amount of time to rectify things - it has been six months since we first spoke!

We had inexplicably high esb bills last winter which caused us a great deal of worry stress and confusion. Eventually we were shocked to figure out that our neighbour was on our esb meter. Then we told you about this in good faith that the situation would be sorted out.
Since then you have fobbed us off, lied to us, not turned up when we arranged to meet you without calling to say, been rude to us, hung up the phone on us, cut off our hot water, invited at least one man to enter our home without our knowledge or consent. We have tolerated all this politely, trying and failing to get you to communicate with us in a reasonable manner.

From this point on we will only communicate with you in writing, unless absolutely necessary to do otherwise.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

babytooth

daveirl wrote:

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and the guards,
make his life awkward.

he facilitated breaking and entering. there are laws there for you to use.

MysticalSoul

When he said he wasn't registered, it could be to do with The Land Registry too (all new known addresses are supposed to be registered with them).

Do you have his PPS Number?

pwd

don't have his pps number.
He's not registered with anyone for the flat - he admitted he has no planning permission for it.

dudara

Time to seek professional legal advice.

Obviously he's not registered with the PRTB, because otherwise you would have his PPS number.

I would also estimate that the electricity consumed by two flats would be approximately equal, but slightly greater for the 2-person flat. So you are definitely owed a significant rebate.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

dudara wrote:

I would also estimate that the electricity consumed by two flats would be approximately equal, but slightly greater for the 2-person flat. So you are definitely owed a significant rebate.

A one person apartment uses almost as much energy as a two person apartment - one fridge, one cooker, one TV, same heating, same lights and water heating would only be slightly less as a similar amount of hot water gets wasted. However in this case, someone was leaving hte hot water on 24x7 as they weren't paying for it.

babytooth

Victor wrote:

A one person apartment uses almost as much energy as a two person apartment - one fridge, one cooker, one TV, same heating, same lights and water heating would only be slightly less as a similar amount of hot water gets wasted. However in this case, someone was leaving hte hot water on 24x7 as they weren't paying for it.

you dont need anything, not even his name....

ring the esb and tell them that your landlord was messing with the meter and you can smell burning and that there was sparks, you think he was fiddling with the meters...they'l move on that pronto.

Ring the corpo and tell them that your landlord has built an extra apartment w.out planning permission and that the extension proves a health hazard.

Ring the revenue and tell them that your landlord is not declaring his rental income. claim you rent relief, its worth 640 euro to you this year and 600 from last year, all you need to do is fill in the Rent Form 1, you dont need his pps number at all.... 1200 odd euro, that pays a months rent, or a nice holiday...and it is your money so claim it.

http://www.revenue.ie/forms/rent1.pdf

fill it in, and attach a note stating that the landlord won't give you his pps, just put his name down, they'l find him in about 10 minutes...thats all you need.

Ring the PTRB and make a complaint that your tennancy is not registered, they will ask you a few questions such as the address, amount of tennancys in that address and the landlords name...give them all the details that you have and let them do the rest....
http://www.prtb.ie/pubregfaq.htm

If i was you, i'd speak to a solicotor and make a formal comlaint to the guards on the issue of breaking and entering. Get a copy of all complaints, then present them in written format to the landlord.

I know this may appear like hassle, but you really should claim your rent and should report him. I mean, if you do nothing then he continues to do the wrong thing over and over, and really, its all you deserve if you do nothing about it, the whole saying "for evil to propser

daveirl

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WizZard

Pursue this matter, please.
It's not worth letting landlords like that get away with this kind of thing.

intheknow

babytooth wrote:

you dont need anything, not even his name....

ring the esb and tell them that your landlord was messing with the meter and you can smell burning and that there was sparks, you think he was fiddling with the meters...they'l move on that pronto.

Ring the corpo and tell them that your landlord has built an extra apartment w.out planning permission and that the extension proves a health hazard.

Ring the revenue and tell them that your landlord is not declaring his rental income. claim you rent relief, its worth 640 euro to you this year and 600 from last year, all you need to do is fill in the Rent Form 1, you dont need his pps number at all.... 1200 odd euro, that pays a months rent, or a nice holiday...and it is your money so claim it.

http://www.revenue.ie/forms/rent1.pdf

fill it in, and attach a note stating that the landlord won't give you his pps, just put his name down, they'l find him in about 10 minutes...thats all you need.

Ring the PTRB and make a complaint that your tennancy is not registered, they will ask you a few questions such as the address, amount of tennancys in that address and the landlords name...give them all the details that you have and let them do the rest....
http://www.prtb.ie/pubregfaq.htm

If i was you, i'd speak to a solicotor and make a formal comlaint to the guards on the issue of breaking and entering. Get a copy of all complaints, then present them in written format to the landlord.

I know this may appear like hassle, but you really should claim your rent and should report him. I mean, if you do nothing then he continues to do the wrong thing over and over, and really, its all you deserve if you do nothing about it, the whole saying "for evil to propser

They will all be after him at the same time..Glad I am not his postman...or his doorbell !!

pete4130

Jeez, I just read through this thread and the landlord is doing a whole host of things he shouldn't be.

1) Contact a solicitor.

2) He should be registered with the PRTB as a landlord. If not, this is illegal.

3) As a registered landlord he should be paying tax on rental income per annum if it's over a certain amount (I think it's €7620 a year. Anything over this is taxable). If your paying him more than that per year, he should be paying tax. If he has 5 or 6 apartments he is more than likely getting alot more than this. So contact the revenue.

4) Contact the ESB about 2 flats sharing 1 metre.

5) He has breached your tennancy agreement entering or letting an agent of his enter without your consent (the electrician). You are entitled to peaceably tennancy.

6) Contact Dublin City Council planning department, let them know of the extra apartment thats is not meant to be there. PM me if you'd like me to get you a senior planners number.....I work in a different dept. for DCC (and they hate to get bad publicity so bear that in mind when your requesting them to take action).

7) Get an electrician yourself to assess the situation as this is a professional witness as to what the set up was. Get the electrician to write you a summary of the situation.

8) It could be an idea to change your locks to stop any further unlawful entry.

This landlord seriously seems like he's making your life hell. You have my sympathies and I'll keep my fingers crossed that you take some action against him. I know its easier said than done.

patrickolee

... or just move out!

daveirl

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jmayo

patrickolee wrote:

... or just move out!

Why should he let the landlord screw them and then scamper with their tails between their legs. Maybe that happened in the good old days in Ireland but at least now we do have some laws to protect the tenant.
It wasn't alone the English landlords that screwed the tenants of this country our own have been excellent at it as well.

Follow the good advice from babytooth and pete above.
The landlord deserves everything he gets.
He has hurt you and you girlfriend financially and mentally, now hurt him by hitting the only thing he cares about, his pocket.

robd

pwd,

I would add to previous suggestions. After reporting him to the PRTB use the PRTB to seek compensation for the ESB Bills. It might take 6 months but they should be able to recover a fair amount to cover the extra electricity due to the illegal sub divide.

As per other posters, you absolutely need to report him to all authorities listed. He is hoping to resolve the situation by replacing you with a vulnerable person whom he can get away with this with.

pwd

Well after a great deal of reluctance on the part of my grilfriend and myself, we are filing complaints against him with all relevant bodies, and possibly a complaint of harassment also. In the last 48 hours he has called us squatters and scammers and threatened to change the locks on our apartment. I've already notified the PRTB that all flats in this house are unregistered - they confirmed this after he said they were registered.
Most of the recent developments are described in an email exchange so I will post that here later. (I don't want to do it now because it's quite lengthy and a number of names and personal details need to be edited out first)
You are correct that our reluctance to be stressed just leads to further stress as people lke this just perceive anything like this as weakness. I am a nervous wreck at this point but furious and feel better for taking decisive action. He really has pushed us into this.
Thanks again for all your replies so far.

pwd

great dublin city council require proof that the flats have been built within the last 7 years to do anything.

pwd

next on the list is revenue. No answer from them so far. He has numerous pieces of post to businesses that are not present here which seems suspicious to me also.

patrickolee

I'm guessing if it's a "converted georgian house", it wasn't "built within the last 7 years "?

pwd

well it wouldn't be when the house was built but when it was converted into flats. I'll ask the esb if they can tell me when the meters for flats were installed.