Importing camper van from Germany

yardeyar

Hi, if a two year old 3,500kg camper is advertised in a German dealer with 6,500km/h for €50,000, that includes the German vat. My question is, as I am exporting it from Germany to Ireland can I buy the camper minus the vat? Will the German dealer sell it to me minus the German vat? Then when I get back to Ireland to register it, because its over 3,000kg/3 Ton does that mean I only have to pay €50 VRT and no vat? Thanks, Paul.

peasant

Not quite ...

You have to pay VAT on the purchase anyway. As you're buying from inside the EU you can do so in Germany and you'd be stupid not to, as VAT over there is only 19%.

As for VRT, once the van is over 3 ton UNLADEN then you pay 50 euro, if it is below that then the VRT is 13.5% of whatetever the VRT people say the OMSP of your van is.

So you better get your figures right before you take the plunge.

yardeyar

Thanks Peasant for your reply, we bought a secondhand Motorhome in 2006 in UK and all the paper work etc was easy enough, I'm heading to Germany in December so might have a look for a motorhome while there. YEAH!

chewed

yardeyar wrote: »

Thanks Peasant for your reply, we bought a secondhand Motorhome in 2006 in UK and all the paper work etc was easy enough, I'm heading to Germany in December so might have a look for a motorhome while there. YEAH!

Let us know how you got on!

dowtchaboy

lofloinn wrote: »

Or buy a minibus registered in Ireland and convert it, with the interior of a same make and model one you bring in from say, Germany but dont register the camper you import. Then seeing that the VRT is already paid on the minibus when it was registered in Ireland first, you will not have to pay VRT on it here to register it as a camper. But I suppose there is a bit of work on converting even if you have all the interior.
Good luck.
Liam.

Alas I think they have that one covered - if you want to avail of the special low road tax of sub €80 for campers you will have to have your minibus re-registered as a camper - and then they will hit you for VRT - I think that is correct. Maybe somebody on this forum who has done it can clarify the situation?

peasant

Moderator note:

the above quoted post from lofloinn was moved to another thread, so it's missing from the flow here.

lofloinn

If a vehicle has VRT paid on it here in Ireland when it was registered, eg. a vw Caravelle originally bought in Ireland. You can check with the Revenue just by giving them the registration No. and they will tell you how much VRT has been paid on any particular vehicle.
So therefore, if for example, you have a VW Caravelle, originally Irish, or even originally Uk reg. and imported into Ireland and VRT paid on it. Im not sure of the rates but just for example purposes, say there was at some stage €5000 paid on it to register it in Ireland say 5years ago and now you want to get it registered as a camper and you have it converted and the Revenue value it at €20000 and the VRT rate is say 25% so a forth of the value, that equels €5000 VRT But seeing that there has been €5000 VRT already paid on it 5years ago you will not have to pay VRT on it again.
And you will get your €80ish road tax also.

Now for you. Do you believe me? Ask the Revenue.

One case where this might be worth doing is if you could buy a crashed camper or if the camper you bought was originally a van, therefore not as finished as a Carvelle, the Caravelle is much better on the road also, smoother ride.
So what do you all think, worth doing?

Does anyone have a Reimo Variotech 2 seater bed?
I want one
Thanks.
Liam

cravings

Hello!

A friend has a campervan she's thinking of importing from germany. so we're currently researching all about insurance, VRT etc. it's quite an old van and she's worried it'll be taxed at a high rate because of its age (and therefore its potential CO2 emissions), and i've been reading a lot here and elsewhere, and haven't seen any mention of any campervan being subject to VRT higher than 14%.

It's a 1987 Mercedes 209D, professionally converted (it's really really nice), all german TUS and everything in order, 3.0L engine, ~93k kilometers on the clock, GVW just under 3 tons.

Most of the talk here seems to be about newer vans. so i suppose the question here is, has anyone any idea what she can expect from the VRT office, based on anyone's recent experiences with such a van? They seem to value things very highly? any recommendations?

i've been reading here for months, but never posted before, boards is great for info on everything!

dowtchaboy

cravings wrote: »

. it's quite an old van and she's worried it'll be taxed at a high rate because of its age (and therefore its potential CO2 emissions),....... VRT higher than 14%.

It's a 1987 Mercedes 209D, professionally converted ...
.....
They seem to value things very highly? any recommendations?

I've brought in 2 older vans from Germany so here's my 2 cents worth: AFAIK the VRT system for campers has not changed - you can bring in the clunkiest most foul-smelling smokey beast you like and it will still be the same VRT rate.
However - they are REALLY strict on the definition of a camper - you MUST have 1.8metres height behind the drivers seat ie full standing height - ones where you have to bend down, or pop-tops will NOT be allowed as campers for the 13.33% VRT rate.

They also tend to value vans too highly - they seem to write down a car's value to nothing after about 13 years, but vans even over 20 years old keep a value in their eyes. It is worth appealing the valuation by the way - but you have to do this after you have paid up.

Because yours is not an original coach-built (no matter how well done it is) they may not value it too high - you could argue a 1987 non-coach-built would be say 5K?
However - if it is NOT considered a camper for VRT purposes this might suit you - their valuation for a 20 year old commercial van could be very low -
but then maybe you cannot avail of the 80 per annum road tax. That particular area is unclear. Go have a chat with your local VRO - the ones in Cork were quite helpful - it's the guys in Rosslare who make the final valuation decision and don't talk to mere mortals, but the local VRO guys can give you some clues as to what will and won't apply.

cravings

thanks for that, dowtchaboy. my friend would be very relieved if it wasn't taxed at 34% or so. it is definitely a campervan: it has a full high roof with a bed over the driving seats, good kitchen, all well ventilated etc.

Just to be clear, she's not trying to avoid paying or anything like that; what they ask for they will get, and if she feels the value has been overestimated, then yes, she will absolutely appeal. we've already been collecting together some adds for similarly aged, similar style campers in case we would need to argue the OMSP down.

was it since July that you brought in 2 old vans?

thanks again.

stapeler

cravings wrote: »

Hello!

A friend has a campervan she's thinking of importing from germany. so we're currently researching all about insurance, VRT etc. it's quite an old van and she's worried it'll be taxed at a high rate because of its age (and therefore its potential CO2 emissions), and i've been reading a lot here and elsewhere, and haven't seen any mention of any campervan being subject to VRT higher than 14%.

It's a 1987 Mercedes 209D, professionally converted (it's really really nice), all german TUS and everything in order, 3.0L engine, ~93k kilometers on the clock, GVW just under 3 tons.

Most of the talk here seems to be about newer vans. so i suppose the question here is, has anyone any idea what she can expect from the VRT office, based on anyone's recent experiences with such a van? They seem to value things very highly? any recommendations?

i've been reading here for months, but never posted before, boards is great for info on everything!

Age shouldn't have any effect on the VRT class, If it's over 1.8m and meets all the requirments of a motorhome then VRT should be 13%. A 1987 motorhome is unlikely to be valued any more than €6-7K so probably looking at VRT of less than €1000. The change in VRT post July shouldn't shouldn't effect this as it only considers new vehicles.
Make sure to research insurance as most companies will require a garage cert because of it's age.

cravings

Ok, this is sounding more promising, thanks. i just haven't seen it written anywhere on an official website or document that campervans are still subject to vrt at 13.3% since the changes introduced in July.

Dolmen have been contacted for a quote: the one they initially gave was higher than expected, but that may be because all they know is that it's a conversion.. maybe, if they saw photos of the van they would bring that down.

Stewarts' insurances were also called but because this wouldn't be a second vehicle, their camper van policy is unavailable.

thanks for the advice, this is looking more feasible.

dowtchaboy

cravings wrote: »

thanks for that, dowtchaboy. my friend would be very relieved if it wasn't taxed at 34% or so. it is definitely a campervan: it has a full high roof with a bed over the driving seats, good kitchen, all well ventilated etc.....

was it since July that you brought in 2 old vans?

Sounds like it should have no probs being classified as a campervan then - strangely enough they will walk out to your van and use a tape measure, and maybe take photographs even if it is perfectly obvious that it is a camper....:) .

You are probably aware of the silly VRT rate of a flat 70 or so Euro if the van is over 3 Tonnes (3,000Kg)? That's unladen weight so no adding sheets of lead or anything! I don't know that model of Merc - usually (I think) a 3 Tonne vehicle will have double wheels on the rear. Personally I'd rather have a smaller neater van than a big 'un unless I were full-timing or had a large family

No - I bought my first about 5 years ago and the second in Feb but I'm reasonably sure the VRT regime has not changed at all for campers.

By the way - I believe just being a NAMED driver on someone else's policy will qualify you as having a second vehicle. My understanding is that Dolmen also have higher rates if you the van is your only vehicle. Another source of insurance is Richardson Insurances - you have to do this through the Motorcaravan Club (www.motorcaravanclub.net) and be a member so that's an extra cost. I was with Richardson and now am with Dolmen - there's not a lot of difference though I think Dolmen are a bit cheaper and they may be more receptive to older vans and conversions - maybe someone else here knows?

gally74

hello,

are pop ups still not seen as a camper van, was looking at improting vw california, wanted a pop up as i can fit it in garage,

any help appreciated

dowtchaboy

gally74 wrote: »

hello,

are pop ups still not seen as a camper van, was looking at improting vw california, wanted a pop up as i can fit it in garage,

any help appreciated

AFAIK pop-tops are considered NOT to be "motorised caravans" (to use their term) for the purpose of VRT - ie you WILL have to pay "car" type VRT rates.

I thought pop-tops were considered to be campers for the road-tax - at least they used to be - but now I am not so sure.
(those VW California's are nice though.......)

cammy saoran

HI IS THERE ANY CHEAP MOTORHOMES FOR SALE IN IRELAND?? OBVIOUSLY NOT BUT I AM LOOKING FOR A CHEAP 1 AND SEEMS A LONG WAY TO GO FOR 1{GERMANY} sorry bout caps.

dowtchaboy

cammy saoran wrote: »

HI IS THERE ANY CHEAP MOTORHOMES FOR SALE IN IRELAND?? OBVIOUSLY NOT BUT I AM LOOKING FOR A CHEAP 1 AND SEEMS A LONG WAY TO GO FOR 1{GERMANY} sorry bout caps.

I am seeing them for sale everywhere - many for private sale at the side of the road - and much better condition and pricing than even less than a year ago. Saw quite a few on www.donedeal.ie recently. (look in Caravans section). Watch out for "cheap" though - go much below 10 grand or any home conversions and you are in dicey territory (IMHO).
db.

cravings

dowtchaboy wrote: »

Sounds like it should have no probs being classified as a campervan then - strangely enough they will walk out to your van and use a tape measure, and maybe take photographs even if it is perfectly obvious that it is a camper....:) .

You are probably aware of the silly VRT rate of a flat 70 or so Euro if the van is over 3 Tonnes (3,000Kg)? That's unladen weight so no adding sheets of lead or anything! I don't know that model of Merc - usually (I think) a 3 Tonne vehicle will have double wheels on the rear. Personally I'd rather have a smaller neater van than a big 'un unless I were full-timing or had a large family

No - I bought my first about 5 years ago and the second in Feb but I'm reasonably sure the VRT regime has not changed at all for campers.

By the way - I believe just being a NAMED driver on someone else's policy will qualify you as having a second vehicle. My understanding is that Dolmen also have higher rates if you the van is your only vehicle. Another source of insurance is Richardson Insurances - you have to do this through the Motorcaravan Club (www.motorcaravanclub.net) and be a member so that's an extra cost. I was with Richardson and now am with Dolmen - there's not a lot of difference though I think Dolmen are a bit cheaper and they may be more receptive to older vans and conversions - maybe someone else here knows?

ok thanks all who responded. this van has now been properly imported, registered, taxed and insured. i can't remember the exact figure (it really isn't mine, it is a friend's) but the VRT was in the area of €700, i think it's value was listed as €6,000 so that would be... well €780 would be 13% of $6,000 so about that. insured with dolmen, in the region of €600.. would have been cheaper if it was a second vehicle for the owner, but it's not.

all done though. happy out.

cammy saoran

under 10grand thats my kind of territory i'm afraid...lol lol thanks for reply though...germany here i come..

shigg

Hi

Help! I am very confused re VRT and VAT on imports of campervan from germany. I've been on to Revenue and they tell me if imotorhome is 2nd hand I have to pay 13.5% VRT and NO VAT. If its heavier than 3 tonne, its only 50 euro, above a certain height... So what is the story re VAT as I've read through all the threads on this and STILL confused....

Thanks a million X

peasant

You have to pay VAT somewhere.

In case of a second hand MH you're better off payin it in UK or Germany, as VAT is cheaper there (most prices in Germany are listed inclusive of VAT)

In case of a new motorhome (under 6 months/6000 km) Irish revenue insists that you pay Irish VAT ...so the best thing is to try and buy VAT free if you can, as getting the VAT back afterwards may take quite while.

cammy saoran

peasant...
"You have to pay VAT somewhere.

In case of a second hand MH you're better off payin it in UK or Germany, as VAT is cheaper there (most prices in Germany are listed inclusive of VAT)

In case of a new motorhome (under 6 months/6000 km) Irish revenue insists that you pay Irish VAT ...so the best thing is to try and buy VAT free if you can, as getting the VAT back afterwards may take quite while."

just been thru the same over 3000kg 50 euro flat rate,and under that 13.3% of the selling rate...whatever that is,you get the vehicle weighed yourself so load it up!!!,you need a certificate off a simi garage to prove vehicle is roadworthy about 100euro for dolmen insurance that is caravanmotoring club wanted DNA SAMPLE!!!! TAX IS 80EURO,you have to bring it to them then {vrt office} and they measure it 1.8meter inside and at least 3 rings on cooker hob and fitted sink,apparently there bringing in a doe this year so hurry up!!!,make sure your tanks are filled and cement bags under the seats..lol lol lol...new one's or 2 years or newer is 13.3% of ireland selling rate, no matter what the weight.. ITS ILLEGAL BUT WHO CAN STOP THEM..EU FREEDOM OF TRADE UNLESS YOUR IRISH!!!

shigg

Hey there - thanks for that. All the dealers state gross vehicle weight - the one i'm hoping to buy is 3.5 tonne gvw..is there any rule of thumb for unladen? Looking at a hymer swing 544. Is there much room for negotiation with dealers - they are quoting 18,000.. Had a price agreed with dealer in N. Ireland a couple of months ago and he gazzumped me, the b******!! Hope your camper going well. Tis the business, big time!! I used to have a vw (old ambulance) and it 'died' so DYING to get a new motor and get going!! Roll on electric picnic and the west of ireland rain!! Enjoy.

cammy saoran

no probs m8 mines a bargain buster 84' fiat ducato 6 berth but i can do it up,the hastle with changing over and vrt and insurance is off-putting but once your out there it all becomes worthwhile...enjoy your haggling..

peasant

cammy saoran wrote: »

just been thru the same over 3000kg 50 euro flat rate,and under that 13.3% of the selling rate...whatever that is,you get the vehicle weighed yourself so load it up!!!,you need a certificate off a simi garage to prove vehicle is roadworthy about 100euro for dolmen insurance that is caravanmotoring club wanted DNA SAMPLE!!!! TAX IS 80EURO,you have to bring it to them then {vrt office} and they measure it 1.8meter inside and at least 3 rings on cooker hob and fitted sink,apparently there bringing in a doe this year so hurry up!!!,make sure your tanks are filled and cement bags under the seats..lol lol lol...new one's or 2 years or newer is 13.3% of ireland selling rate, no matter what the weight.. ITS ILLEGAL BUT WHO CAN STOP THEM..EU FREEDOM OF TRADE UNLESS YOUR IRISH!!!

ahemmm ...I was talking about VAT, not VRT

also ...cement bags and filled water tanks ...not good advice, these guys aren't stupid and that would be attempted fraud (and they could get you for it if they wanted to) you don't usually get to weigh the yoke yourself, they weigh it for you. And...no offence... but the bit about the three rings and the two years ...that's just bull****.

We've been through this lot a gazillion times here, read before you spout nonsense please.

cammy saoran

peasant not nonsense u condescending ass,got it from vrt office in galway,AND YOU WEIGH IT YOURSELF!!!again from vrt office in galway why dont you ring and find out,or get a grown up to dial for yeh!!and i'm givin advice to people who requested it and thanked me for it,not to you who obviously has his own criteria on here,hows that job of yours going in vrt office anyhow!!!!!

and the bit about vat is horsesh!t,you cant pay vat in uk then exempt from here or everyone would do it and there is no vat in ireland on secondhand vehicles its VRT which was why i replied for vrt assessment.....oh and weighed it and paid 50euro,and still got the cement....to shigg your welcome to peasant GET A LIFE..your a moderator not a chief inspector.

stapeler

cammy saoran wrote: »

peasant not nonsense u condescending ass,got it from vrt office in galway,AND YOU WEIGH IT YOURSELF!!!again from vrt office in galway why dont you ring and find out,or get a grown up to dial for yeh!!and i'm givin advice to people who requested it and thanked me for it,not to you who obviously has his own criteria on here,hows that job of yours going in vrt office anyhow!!!!!

and the bit about vat is horsesh!t,you cant pay vat in uk then exempt from here or everyone would do it and there is no vat in ireland on secondhand vehicles its VRT which was why i replied for vrt assessment.....oh and weighed it and paid 50euro,and still got the cement....to shigg your welcome to peasant GET A LIFE..your a moderator not a chief inspector.

On both occasions that I've imported a motorhome I've had to have it weighed in the presence of a VRT inspector. On one occasion they told me to have it weighed myself, when I returned they insisted that the weigh-in had to be supervised so had to arrange appointment with VRT inspector.

VAT is payable on secondhand vehicles that are less than 6mths old or has less than 6000kms.
www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/faqs/private3.html gives all the details and has a FAQ section.



Regarding the Hymer 544, It's approx 2750kgs unladen. 250kgs is quiet a bit to add but it's possible. Add an awning, motorbike rack etc, etc. Avoid bags of cement as you wouldn't want one to burst and ruin your new motorhome. Getting caught with cement could be a difficult one to explain to the VRT official.

peasant

cammy saoran wrote: »

...to peasant GET A LIFE..your a moderator not a chief inspector.

Indeed, I'm a moderator and it's part of my job to make sure that no false information is given on this forum. As for your tone ...change it !

peasant

shigg wrote: »

Hi

Help! I am very confused re VRT and VAT on imports of campervan from germany. I've been on to Revenue and they tell me if imotorhome is 2nd hand I have to pay 13.5% VRT and NO VAT. If its heavier than 3 tonne, its only 50 euro, above a certain height... So what is the story re VAT as I've read through all the threads on this and STILL confused....

Thanks a million X

To answer this again (and maybe more clearly this time):

Any time you buy something as a private consumer, be it a bag of sugar or a motorhome, you pay VAT on it. Within the EU you can pay VAT in the country you bought the item and you don't have to pay VAT again when you bring it into Ireland ...even though the VAT rate in most other EU countries is lower than in Ireland.

There is an exception to the rule however: on new vehicles (all vehicles including motorhomes) Revenue insists that you pay VAT in Ireland. A "new" vehicle is any vehicle under 6 months and/or under 6000 km.
So, if you buy a new camper abroad, it is advisable to ask the dealer if he can arrange a VAT free sale (possible, with some paperwork). You can also claim the foreign VAT back once you paid it in Ireland ...but that is a long process and you will have outlayed the money for quite a while.

cammy saoran

well obviously different weigh ins around ireland but in galway they have no weighing facilities so you weigh it yourself,if you have to go to a vrt weigh in center then cement,would'nt be advised as i knew my fella at the local quarry it was'nt a problem,not too sure about the vat on vehicles 2 years or newer,as thats not my price range..as far as i can tell the unladen weight refeer's to no person in it as even at the quarry i was'nt allowed inside the vehicle cab as it goes to vrt with picture of cab attached..all my experience and if you don't want to take the chance don't,and if caught the vrt should be abolished as dutch business man is taking vrt ireland to court as it oppses everything baout freedom of trade,so it would'nt bother me either way if your not that way inclined,then paying the vrt and saying thanks sir is for you..