Docklands Station opening

clubcrown

Redsoxfan wrote:

I know that it was publicised elsewhere, but was there advance notice of extra services at Clonsilla stations etc. in the last few weeks?

No, apart from some guy handing out leaflets, which he didn't have enough of.

No announcements, no posters, so sign up on the ticket office, nothing. Par for the course at this stage.

daymobrew

clubcrown wrote:

Its about the lack of information, not the trains themselves; if they had announced what was wrong yesterday then everyone could have made a choice to go to the other train, or leave the station, whatever. One announcement would have done it.

Agreed. This is my number one complaint about Irish Rail. I think it's time for another letter to Dick Fearn. I haven't written to him in a good while.

clubcrown wrote:

No announcements, no posters, so sign up on the ticket office, nothing. Par for the course at this stage.

I've known about the opening of the Docklands station for many months - it's been mentioned in newspapers (free local ones and national papers), been mentioned by Craig Doyle on TV ads and the times have been listed on the timetables since they were released in early January.
IMO leaflets will only get littered somewhere, just like those free morning newspapers (I hate the way they get strewn all over the place - please bring them home and recycle them - they're not heavy!).

MarkoP11

daymobrew makes a good point this has been very public in the media for ages.

The first two trains into Docklands on Monday had a combined load of 200, 50 odd on the 7:00 which for 7am is reasonable and 150+ on the 7:45 for first day that was very impressive, I'm sure it will quickly reach 300 on the 7:45 and continue to grow rapidly to saturation

clubcrown

MarkoP11 wrote:

daymobrew makes a good point this has been very public in the media for ages.

The first two trains into Docklands on Monday had a combined load of 200, 50 odd on the 7:00 which for 7am is reasonable and 150+ on the 7:45 for first day that was very impressive, I'm sure it will quickly reach 300 on the 7:45 and continue to grow rapidly to saturation

I didn't make my point clear enough I think

Heres the scenario; you don't have a timetable to hand. You arrive at Coolmine station just as a train is pulling in. There is no PIS on the train and there are no audio announcements of stations at any stage. Theres no working notice board at the station, and no audio announcements from the ticket office.

You're traveling to Sydney Parade. How do you know if this train is going to docklands or into town? So you jump on the train and end up in Sherrif Street, and late for work. The first opportunity you had to learn that the train was not going to town was when it didn;t go through Drumcondra - too late. This happened yesterday morning (not to me )

Don't get me wrong, I think its great that the new routes are there, but my point still stands; IE are bloody terrible are telling their customers *anything* thats new /changed.

How hard is it to have an automated voice in the station saying "the next train arriving is for Docklands", or something like that?

Chris_533976

IE are terrible at that. On the Mallow - Cork - Cobh commuter service (which is, in fairness, pretty good if a little expensive), they have electronic displays on the trains showing where its going. But more often than not the train coming from Mallow has "Mallow" on the front of it, and not "Cobh".

Bus Eireann are as shoddy as that. The 5W bus in Galway, going to Rahoon, is frequently displayed on the bus as the 5E, going to Ballybane. Its all one route, but the driver should change it at either end, to let people know hes going to Rahoon or Ballybane. This often doesnt happen, and the bus is labelled wrongly. I know from experience where the bus is going to go, but how would a tourist or a newcomer to the city react??

Honestly, its not hard to have a correct display saying where something is going. Its common sense. Everyone can accept that there will be a few mistakes and a few issues. But IEs and Bus Eireanns attempts at letting people know is nothing short of pathetic and laughable.

daymobrew

clubcrown wrote:

Theres no working notice board at the station, and no audio announcements from the ticket office.

The timetable is in front of the ticket office, but I take your point.

Mr Dick Fearn, Chief Executive,
Irish Rail,
Connolly Station,
Dublin 1

Slice

I agree about the poor communication. Saw adverts in today's papers about the opening of the new station - no maps - no pictures - just a graphic of a ribbon being cut by a pair of scissors

clubcrown

Slice wrote:

I agree about the poor communication. Saw adverts in today's papers about the opening of the new station - no maps - no pictures - just a graphic of a ribbon being cut by a pair of scissors

I thought "the first new station in the city center in 100 years" would be something to be embarrassed about, rather than boasting. Its basically saying that nothings changed since 1900 or whenever. They should fire their marketing department

Ste.phen

clubcrown wrote:

I thought "the first new station in the city center in 100 years" would be something to be embarrassed about, rather than boasting. Its basically saying that nothings changed since 1900 or whenever. They should fire their marketing department

I dunno, it's the 'a lot done, more to do' attitude again, isn't it?
"eh, sorry we sucked, we'll get right on it..."

daymobrew

In support of the statements of clubclown and Chris_533976, I overhead two guys on the train this afternoon talking about the new station.
"It's on the southside somewhere, near Ringsend".
At Ashtown station there is a poster on the platform showing the 'correct' location. I think that they were mising it up with Grand Canal Dock station.

These were obviously two guys who didn't see the media items that I mentioned.

Slice

daymobrew
These were obviously two guys who didn't see the media items that I mentioned.

I think with the opening of a new station, especially one as significant this where it will affect the routes and destinations of trains on an entire line, there's no such thing as too much communication and information. There's clearly been too little information here because I would have been clueless about the new station without reading Boards.

The RPA put IR to shame with regards information they communicate.

Victor

daymobrew wrote:

Victor wrote:

Not really, although where are the points at Clonsilla? Does a train need to reverse across the LC or does it simply pull in at the inbound platform on the way out (or return from the outbound platform)?

I think that the points are west of the station and therefore would not affect the LC.

Surely the train would need to cross the LC to use the points.

daymobrew wrote:

Victor wrote:

The level crossing closures at Clonsilla and Coolmine are less than say Sydney Parade. Also the Porterstown Road LC has been replaced by a bridge, so it isn't that bad.

Can you please explain the LC closing times document. I don't understand the figures.
For example, should the first line be interpreted as, at 8:05 it closes for 13mins? (though that doesn't seem right). I always thought it was about 2.5-3mins closed for each train (though worse it if is heading to Clonsilla and stops in Coolmine).

Mon-Fri	08:05	0:13	
Mon-Fri	08:13	0:08	
Mon-Fri	08:20	0:07	
Mon-Fri	08:21	0:01		Express
Mon-Fri	08:32	0:11		Both directions

A train passes at 08:05 and the previous train was 13 minutes before. Hardly that oppressive.

monument

BTW journalists who attended the launch were treated to a travel mug, a rail/bus ticket with a value of €8, the usually snacks, and err a press pack.

daymobrew

Victor wrote:

Surely the train would need to cross the LC to use the points.

I was thinking that if a westbound train pulls into Clonsilla it obviously crosses the LC. If the points are west of the station the train continues to the points, crossed to eastbound track and pulls back into the station to head east. It does not cross the LC until it is ready to leave. Two uses of LC.

If the points are east of the station it crosses the LC on first approach and drops off passengers, then it heads east, crossing the LC, changes tracks at the points, crosses LC to go back to the station, picks up eastbound passengers and crosses LC a 4th time.

Victor wrote:

A train passes at 08:05 and the previous train was 13 minutes before. Hardly that oppressive.

So 5 trains between 8:05 and 8:32. If the LC gates are closed for 3 mins each time then they are down for 15 out of 30 mins. It's obviously less because of the 8:20/8:21 trains will overlap.

Jip

A mate took a half hour to get through Clonsilla yesterday morning by car as opposed to the 10 minutes max when he usually gets caught at the level crossing.

NCS

Jip wrote:

A mate took a half hour to get through Clonsilla yesterday morning by car as opposed to the 10 minutes max when he usually gets caught at the level crossing.

I was stuck in it yesterday trying to get to the local creche - the traffic was murderous before the Docklands services came in and now, well let's say you need to be on foot or in possession of a sense of humour. The problem is that the traffic is not clearing when the gates are open due to the following obvious issues:

1. Opening the gates takes a finite amount of time even if the gatekeeper acts promptly.
2. Because of the orientation and width of the bridge, flow across it is punctuated by halting for pedestrians, cyclists, trucks and buses.
3. Lucan/Luttrelstown traffic is routinely backed up past the Portersgate entrance waiting to turn right on to the Clonsilla Road and across the bridge. Since for the most part this road is single lane, traffic turning left on to the Clonsilla Road cannot get past so the queue just builds. Moreover, there is a constant dripfeed on to this road from the Portersgate estate, further delaying matters.
4. On the Clonsilla Road itself, traffic is frequently halted just before the bridge by Clonee/Ongar bound cars trying to turn right.

The overall effect is that traffic flow across the bridge is not a simple linear function of the length of time the gates are open. It's always been bad at that crossing but it's a disaster now.

Time Magazine

Hopefully more people will get the train so

Zoney

I'm familiar with the bridge; it is absurd even if there was no level crossing.

The solution to all this isn't to restrict trains though - each one carrying hundreds when the backed up cars surely have less than 100 people unless the queues are truly shocking - even if they were it's unlikely they have more people than in the train.

Jip

Ibid wrote:

Hopefully more people will get the train so

No good to anyone trying to get from the D15 area to anywhere in the west of Dublin such as Lucan, Clondalkin, Tallaght and on and on and on.

AlekSmart

Hmmm,This is all most surprising.

I was under the impression that the Local Authority in cooperation with the Dept of Local Government (!!) and latterly the Dept of the Environment had spent significant amounts of public infrastructural funds on a complete upgrade of the Roads netwrok in that area?

Perhaps the posters are taking an unnecessarily pessimistic view of things ?

I am almost certain I read somewhere of the intense activities of Local Politicians and Civic Administrators such as the late Liam Lawlor and the nice Mr George Redmond in their quest to leave no stone unturned to ensure West Dublin remained as a model for the future.

Can it be their noble quest was unsuccessful...?

vandermeyde

daymobrew wrote:

I was thinking that if a westbound train pulls into Clonsilla it obviously crosses the LC. If the points are west of the station the train continues to the points, crossed to eastbound track and pulls back into the station to head east. It does not cross the LC until it is ready to leave. Two uses of LC.

If the points are east of the station it crosses the LC on first approach and drops off passengers, then it heads east, crossing the LC, changes tracks at the points, crosses LC to go back to the station, picks up eastbound passengers and crosses LC a 4th time.

So 5 trains between 8:05 and 8:32. If the LC gates are closed for 3 mins each time then they are down for 15 out of 30 mins. It's obviously less because of the 8:20/8:21 trains will overlap.

the points are on the city side (east) of the line about 300 yards before the Clonsilla LC....the docklands train goes from Platform 2 (the westbound platform), heads back towards the city and crosses back onto the correct track at those points just beyond the signal box/wheelhouse...

got the 8:45 to Docklands this morning and there was only about 50/60 people getting off in docklands...got the 17:10 home on Monday and there were about the same numbers....nice to get a seat but I don't see it lasting too long!!

mackerski

I'm from the area and I'm glad I can usually avoid the roads around that bridge, but it strikes me that there's a seemingly minor road adjustment that would offload Clonsilla bridge and allow cars between Clonsilla and Luttrellstown Roads without negotiating a level crossing.

In the last few years, a road was built that is essentially a southern extension of Blanchardstown Road South, continuing it south of Clonsilla Road. This road is wide and straight and away from housing, and it travels over canal and railway on a bridge. It then encounters a roundabout at the western edge of Carpenterstown. In typical Carpenterstown style, the roundabout has only one onward route, making it more of a 90-degree bend in disguise. However, this roundabout is located extremely close to the Luttrellstown Road, right by where it is joined by what I grew up calling the Porterstown Road (joins Lut. Road to Clonsilla Road, crossing railway at level crossing). It looks a lot like the roundabout was intended some day to provide access to the Luttrellstown Road, and clearly it would solve quite a few problems if it did.

murphaph

Yup, it's called Dr. Troy Bridge. Can't understand why it isn't properly connected either. Usual nonsense. It would alleviate Clonsilla LC almost completely IMO.

Ste.phen

murphaph wrote:

Yup, it's called Dr. Troy Bridge. Can't understand why it isn't properly connected either. Usual nonsense. It would alleviate Clonsilla LC almost completely IMO.

Just checked this out on Google Earth, I'm not too familiar with the area, but I presume the problem LC is the one on Coolmine road, and the bridge we're talking about is the one marked on Google Earth as 'The Courtyard'?

It goes over the train tracks, then goes out of Google's hi-res area briefly, then appears to be Luttrelstown Place.
Yahoo maps shows a roundabout in the area that Google has no imagery for.

What's the problem with cars using this route to avoid coolmine road? I can't tell from the maps.

[edit] never mind, i see what you mean now, it wasn't obvious on Google, Yahoo has maps for the area, i see the gap between the roundabout and Luttrelstown Road is only a few metres, and that using the bridge as-is presents a very roundabout way to get o Luttrelstown Road via some awkward housing estates. Disregard! [edit]

fletch

mackerski wrote:

It looks a lot like the roundabout was intended some day to provide access to the Luttrellstown Road, and clearly it would solve quite a few problems if it did.

I'm not so sure that this would solve everything. The junction of Porterstown Road and Luttrelstown Road (not sure if that's what it's called but it's the road with Luttrelstown Golf Club on it) is a very dangerous one for anybody trying to turn right and often backs up. The increase of traffic using this junction would just create further delays at this junction and a fair few more crashes.

mackerski

fletch wrote:

I'm not so sure that this would solve everything. The junction of Porterstown Road and Luttrelstown Road (not sure if that's what it's called but it's the road with Luttrelstown Golf Club on it) is a very dangerous one for anybody trying to turn right and often backs up. The increase of traffic using this junction would just create further delays at this junction and a fair few more crashes.

Big roundabout at the new junction, sever the link with the Porterstown Road and provide a spur between P. Road and the new road (I _think_ there's land to do this). I'm sure there are challenges in there, but it feels doable.

daymobrew

mackerski wrote:

Big roundabout at the new junction, sever the link with the Porterstown Road and provide a spur between P. Road and the new road (I _think_ there's land to do this). I'm sure there are challenges in there, but it feels doable.

Part of the problem with that area is that it is the planned route of the Metro West.

Skyhater

daymobrew wrote:

Part of the problem with that area is that it is the planned route of the Metro West.

Rout for metro west is east of the Roundabout/Bridge. The new roundabout exit would be to the west, so not a problem!!!

This option was mentioned by the Director of Fingal's Transport Division in this article..... so it may happen...... Question is WHEN????

NOTE: There is a load of Rubbish in the remainder of the article... The Bloody Council knew for ages that these extra services were coming... It was part of the planning permission for the Hansfield SDZ.

Pineapple stu

daymobrew wrote:

I was thinking that if a westbound train pulls into Clonsilla it obviously crosses the LC. If the points are west of the station the train continues to the points, crossed to eastbound track and pulls back into the station to head east. It does not cross the LC until it is ready to leave. Two uses of LC.

If the points are east of the station it crosses the LC on first approach and drops off passengers, then it heads east, crossing the LC, changes tracks at the points, crosses LC to go back to the station, picks up eastbound passengers and crosses LC a 4th time.

So 5 trains between 8:05 and 8:32. If the LC gates are closed for 3 mins each time then they are down for 15 out of 30 mins. It's obviously less because of the 8:20/8:21 trains will overlap.

There is a set of points the maynooth side of the station, the train comes from dublin stops usual platform then crosses over on the maynooth side then comes back and stops on the dublin bound platform. This crossover and signaling is going to be changed in august this year . Irish rail are in a no win situation, few trains then people give out, more trains people give out. what are they going to say when the navan branch reopens? on traffic, people are to lazy to leave the car at home and walk to the station, they would rather abandon it on a grass verge somewhere or double park blocking other cars or outside someones home in a houseing area near the station.Someone mentioned about the bridges on these line, as far as i know there is a presivation order on these so they cant be touched.The new phoenix park station is due to open around september/october with a car park to hold a few hundred cars.

Jip

cymro wrote:

The new phoenix park station is due to open around september/october with a car park to hold a few hundred cars.

And no room on the trains to accomodate the users of these cars ! Sometime only a handful of people manage to get onto the train at Ashtown.