Importing a Car from UK

Jizzer

Hi,

I am going to London in the next few weeks to buy a second hand car (Porsche 911 (996))

I have 2 questions:

1) I am going to keep the UK plates on the car as I want to hold off on paying the VRT for as long as I can. I will keep it on UK plates on it forever if I can. The seller has agreed to MOT and tax the car for me each year (I will pay him for this). I will insure the car here in Ireland.
Does anyone see any issue in doing this? Will the Gardai stop me when I'm out and about driving the car? I am based in Dublin.
2) Is there anything else I should be aware off that I may not have conisdered?
3)I may be moving up Northern Ireland next year. I presume bringing a car from the UK to Northern Ireland and living there has no VRT implications?

Any help / advice is much appreciated.

Thanks.
J.

xabi

Jizzer wrote:

Hi,

I am going to London in the next few weeks to buy a second hand car (Porsche 911 (996))

I have 2 questions:

1) I am going to keep the UK plates on the car as I want to hold off on paying the VRT for as long as I can. I will keep it on UK plates on it forever if I can. The seller has agreed to MOT and tax the car for me each year (I will pay him for this). I will insure the car here in Ireland.
Does anyone see any issue in doing this? Will the Gardai stop me when I'm out and about driving the car? I am based in Dublin.
2) Is there anything else I should be aware off that I may not have conisdered?
3)I may be moving up Northern Ireland next year. I presume bringing a car from the UK to Northern Ireland and living there has no VRT implications?

Any help / advice is much appreciated.

Thanks.
J.

1) Yes
2) Its illegal
3) Correct

X.

Gatster

Just out of interest, which Irish insurer is doing this for you?

4JayZee

Hey there.

I'm doing this and have been since early 2005.

I suspect you'll get a bit of heat due to the car you have chosen - I was advised that a less 'memorable' car is better if you are planning this particular fraud/evasion/scam etc.

As for insurance, I have taken out a policy in the UK in addition to my Irish insurance - adds to the all important paper trail should you be challenged. Didn't get any trouble from my irish insurer - admittedly via broker that I do a lot of business with.

Please do read up on the penalties for VRT evaision - the risks are very real and a 996 is really going to attract attention. Everyone will want to report you (I rather expect this thread to become quite heated!).

Lastly, try to book and perhaps take a few trips to UK via Larne/Stranraer - recent UK fuel bills etc are useful to have. It won't stop a clueful customs officer or Guard but might make a tax checkpoint less stressful.

Best of luck and I hope you really enjoy the 996 - it was what I really wanted!

F.

DonJose

Best of luck, be careful that you don't drop the soap in the shower.

rebel.ranter

I know someone who has been doing this with a 993 in Galway fo the past 3 years. UK tax & Irish insurance. I have also seen a red 325i sport around Cork a few times in the past few weeks with UK plates & tax & an irish insurance disc.
Don't think I'd do it myself, especially in Dublin, too much potential heat in the big smoke! They'll take the car off you (Customs) & leave it to rot in a yard. I've heard stories where they deliberately leave windows & sunroofs open to let the weather get at the cars while impounded. A Porsche will definitely stir up jealousy & anger so I'd expect it would receive this treatment.
Enjoy the car, if you can.

Henry Ford III

Pay your taxes, just like the rest of us!

Nobody like VRT, but it's the law.

Jizzer

I don't have a problem paying the VRT.

I just want to hold on for a year so I can get the VRT down a bit as it does go down every year.

Jizzer

4JayZee wrote:

Hey there.

I'm doing this and have been since early 2005.

I suspect you'll get a bit of heat due to the car you have chosen - I was advised that a less 'memorable' car is better if you are planning this particular fraud/evasion/scam etc.

As for insurance, I have taken out a policy in the UK in addition to my Irish insurance - adds to the all important paper trail should you be challenged. Didn't get any trouble from my irish insurer - admittedly via broker that I do a lot of business with.

Please do read up on the penalties for VRT evaision - the risks are very real and a 996 is really going to attract attention. Everyone will want to report you (I rather expect this thread to become quite heated!).

Lastly, try to book and perhaps take a few trips to UK via Larne/Stranraer - recent UK fuel bills etc are useful to have. It won't stop a clueful customs officer or Guard but might make a tax checkpoint less stressful.

Best of luck and I hope you really enjoy the 996 - it was what I really wanted!

F.

Surely the Gardai will give me one warning? Or will they tae the car of me straight away?

In terms of taxing a and MOT'ing a car with UK plates, do you go back once a year to do this? Do you have a friend whose address you can use..I presume you need a UK address to do the MOT and Tax?

4JayZee

Jizzer wrote:

Surely the Gardai will give me one warning? Or will they tae the car of me straight away?

In terms of taxing a and MOT'ing a car with UK plates, do you go back once a year to do this? Do you have a friend whose address you can use..I presume you need a UK address to do the MOT and Tax?

yep - In my case, I own an apartment that is currently rented out. Management agent collects all relevant post and sends it back to me.

As for a warning - what do really expect? Sympathy?

Its illegal and the Guards are perfectly entitled to seize the car, on the spot, and turf you out. I've only ever heard apocryphal stories about this happening but it is the risk.

I do know that most people, when caught, get given seven days to re-register (i.e. pay!) or prove that the car has left the country.

F.

Henry Ford III

Jizzer wrote:

I don't have a problem paying the VRT. Pay it when it's due then.

I just want to hold on for a year so I can get the VRT down a bit as it does go down every year. As above. Mr. Joe Soap & the rest of us get no discount - why should you?

Easy.

cujimmy

Jizzer wrote:

The seller has agreed to MOT and tax the car for me each year (I will pay him for this).

So the seller is keeping ownership and the all important log book?

Jizzer

cujimmy wrote:

So the seller is keeping ownership and the all important log book?

He told me he would pay it each year and MOT it. Maybe I can just use his address or do does he still have to be he owner??? In which case there is no way I will touch it.

Jizzer

4JayZee wrote:

yep - In my case, I own an apartment that is currently rented out. Management agent collects all relevant post and sends it back to me.

If I own an apartment in Northern Ireland, eventhough I just have it rented this will cover me a I have a Northern Ireland Address. Correct? Or do I need to get a Northern Ireland licence also?

Esel

Jizzer wrote:

If I own an apartment in Northern Ireland, eventhough I just have it rented this will cover me a I have a Northern Ireland Address. Correct? Or do I need to get a Northern Ireland licence also?

Basically, it's illegal for a resident to drive a temporarily imported vehicle (what you are hoping yours will be seen as). You will have to prove you are a resident of the UK, with mortgage/rent receipts, utility bills, even payslips being asked for as proof. The car will be seized if Gardai or Customs (be very afraid of them!) suspect a scam. Customs do not mistreat seized cars. You will have to pay the VRT plus possible penalties to get it back, and you could face prosecution for related offences.

If you show Irish insurance, your story of being a non-resident will be blown. All things considered, not a plan.

pburns

Hypothetically speaking - what if you had a UK apartment (not rented out) but spent 90% of your time in Ireland. You'd have electricity bills etc. in your own name.

Not really practical or plausible but if you were thinking of buying a Veyron for example it might just be worth it!

Jizzer

The choice in the UK is so much better for the high end stuff.

So I will probably buy a UK car either way.

BostonB

If you are buying a 996 look into the RMS oil leaks and engine failures due to liners cracking and bearings breaking up in 996s and Boxsters. Friend had one go at 19k and out of warranty. But Porsche covered it because it had a complete Porsche main dealer service history. If I was getting one I'd get one with an extended warranty. Unless its a turbo of course.

Traumadoc

Buy a 993 and save money by avoiding the depreciation of the 996, and pay less VRT.

Does anyone know how accurate the revenue VRT calculator is?. I looked at the VRT on a 1996 993 and they say 6922 euro (OMSP 23075).

Gerry

You will get the car taken off you if you try this for a year. Best of luck with it though, the peasants who can't afford porsches will be happy to pay their taxes while you skip yours.

TheNog

Like the rest of the posters, I would not recommend trying to escape VRT. It is just not worth it. you could be lucky but there is a big focus on foreign cars here. If you insure the car with an irish company then u are screaming out that u are avoiding the vrt. If u insure the car in england with an english address then your insurance will only allow u 90 days driving in a foreign country. Either way for will be screwed.

Gatster

but there is a big focus on foreign cars here. If you insure the car with an irish company then u are screaming out that u are avoiding the vrt. If u insure the car in england with an english address then your insurance will only allow u 90 days driving in a foreign country. Either way for will be screwed.

Not all entirely true. The big focus may be there, but there are plenty of people on UK plates that have been for months/years, although if insured in Ireland it does smack of genuinely trying to avoid it.

The second part certainly isn't true of all English policies. I know of people insured here with UK companies for upto 6 months at a time, and so long the car is returned within that period it re-validates it for another 6 months. I know people who live in France & Spain with UK cars that are insured via the UK, it depends on how much you are willing to pay and how friendly you are with your insurance company.

332289

Dagon

Just to balance this argument out a bit... and I have a bit of experience in this area.

I've been driving non-registered, non-taxed UK vehicles for nearly 1 year now (buy them in, then sell them on, then get another one). The longest car I've had was my 1990 MR2, which I kept for nearly 5 months without any problems (stopped at Gardai checkpoints on two occasions). Here are two simple facts:

1. Gardai don't give a crap about VRT. They want you to drive safe, and insure your car. Treat them openly, with respect. Hand over all documents and tell them you're going to register asap, as soon as you get all the documents together. Show proof that you are in the proces of registering.
2. Should customs stop you, they will give you 2 weeks to register. It is advisable that you do so. If this never happens (and it may not), then just enjoy your car.

I know members of the Gardai and they know about my cars. They honestly don't give a crap if you never VRT the thing - it ain't their job. Drive it safely, insure it, and don't draw too much attention to yourself. I know a few lads where I live and the customs gave them two weeks.

BTW, I live in "the country" as ye Dubs say! It is possible that things are different and more stringent in the city (tougher cops, tougher customs), so please not I'm only speaking from personal experience / knowledge.

ambro25

TheNog wrote:

If u insure the car in england with an english address then your insurance will only allow u 90 days driving in a foreign country. Either way for will be screwed.

Factually incorrect. Gatser's second paragraph is. But friendliness with your UK insurer has nothing to do with it: you just pay more for the priviledge. Simple as.

As for France, they'll insure you in Ireland on FR plates for a full year, renewable annually, with an address in France or an address in Ireland. Again, you pay for the priviledge. Now that one, however, unlike UK above, depends on how friendly you are with your French insurer (read: how much biz you have put their way over time). Oh, yeah... Funnily enough, they insure you on IE plates in FR with a FR address just the same - only at FR prices

Jizzer

Dagon wrote:

Just to balance this argument out a bit... and I have a bit of experience in this area.

I've been driving non-registered, non-taxed UK vehicles for nearly 1 year now (buy them in, then sell them on, then get another one). The longest car I've had was my 1990 MR2, which I kept for nearly 5 months without any problems (stopped at Gardai checkpoints on two occasions). Here are two simple facts:

1. Gardai don't give a crap about VRT. They want you to drive safe, and insure your car. Treat them openly, with respect. Hand over all documents and tell them you're going to register asap, as soon as you get all the documents together. Show proof that you are in the proces of registering.
2. Should customs stop you, they will give you 2 weeks to register. It is advisable that you do so. If this never happens (and it may not), then just enjoy your car.

I know members of the Gardai and they know about my cars. They honestly don't give a crap if you never VRT the thing - it ain't their job. Drive it safely, insure it, and don't draw too much attention to yourself. I know a few lads where I live and the customs gave them two weeks.

BTW, I live in "the country" as ye Dubs say! It is possible that things are different and more stringent in the city (tougher cops, tougher customs), so please not I'm only speaking from personal experience / knowledge.

What do you do regarding the Motor tax and MOT on an English Car? (What do you need to do this..an english address / utility bills?)

Are you insured in Ireland(what company?) or are you insured in the UK.

Yep I have heard the same from people with UK cars here. They have no probs at all!

rowanh

Speak for yourself Gerry.. Im not happy to pay my taxes and the only porsche i could afford would be a banger 944. I think it would be worth it if the risk will not nother you, bear in mind though if you drive fast then it would be worht the few grand to not worry about being caught speeding and end up loosing your car.

Another thing you might consider is store the car in the uk for 6 months then "prove" you where living there and as far as i know there is no vrt. I dont think this would be hard if storing it for six months is not a problem. Of course this would also be fraud of some sort.

whippet

my lord there is an awful lot of crap being spouted here!!

I have two real experiences in recent years.

First one: A premium car imported, owner was going to pay VRT, was waiting on funds and was careful not to drive on UK plates. Decided to take it for a short spin to keep it fresh. After 1.2 miles (by the clock) pulled over by two guards (in dublin) .. asked to produce documentation .. obviously couldn’t. He was left standing at the side of the road while the two young cops went for a joyride. Immediately he went to VRT office, paid the money got the new plates made up and went to the station where the car was being stored. After a lot of begging was given the car back that evening, but was told he was very lucky.

Second case: Someone who was UK based for 4 years decided to bring two cars home. One was only purchased 3 months prior to moving back to Ireland (this was a more premium car).He left the second car in the UK and drove the older car on UK plates for 6 months (never stopped), but had kept an address, phone bill, bank account and credit card account, tax and insurance in the UK on both motors. When he went to declare both cars, they had no interest in the smaller car, but took 8 weeks to process the other car. Constantly looking for more paperwork, on occasion phoning out of the blue to ask some questions about the car, where it was bought, why did one person have two cars etc … eventually cleared VRT free.

The lesson really is, the law isn’t vague and penalties are severe. It is clear and transparent what is and isn’t allowed, you will need to produce as much information and paper work as they require and see fit.

On an other hand, by driving your 996 illegally in Ireland you are not only cheating the rest of us out of our share of VRT you are not paying any road tax to use the car on the roads that our motor taxes pay for. (cue .. rants and flaming about how the government don’t use motor tax on roads etc ).

To be honest as I have paid my legal obligations on all the cars I have owned, if I knew you I would be very very tempted to make a call to the customs informing them of your activities. Call me bitter, jealous or whatever you wish, but I am willing to contribute my legal share, if you decide that you should be exempt .. do so at your own peril.

Henry Ford III

whippet wrote:

my lord there is an awful lot of crap being spouted here!!

I have two real experiences in recent years.

First one: A premium car imported, owner was going to pay VRT, was waiting on funds and was careful not to drive on UK plates. Decided to take it for a short spin to keep it fresh. After 1.2 miles (by the clock) pulled over by two guards (in dublin) .. asked to produce documentation .. obviously couldn’t. He was left standing at the side of the road while the two young cops went for a joyride. Immediately he went to VRT office, paid the money got the new plates made up and went to the station where the car was being stored. After a lot of begging was given the car back that evening, but was told he was very lucky.

Second case: Someone who was UK based for 4 years decided to bring two cars home. One was only purchased 3 months prior to moving back to Ireland (this was a more premium car).He left the second car in the UK and drove the older car on UK plates for 6 months (never stopped), but had kept an address, phone bill, bank account and credit card account, tax and insurance in the UK on both motors. When he went to declare both cars, they had no interest in the smaller car, but took 8 weeks to process the other car. Constantly looking for more paperwork, on occasion phoning out of the blue to ask some questions about the car, where it was bought, why did one person have two cars etc … eventually cleared VRT free.

The lesson really is, the law isn’t vague and penalties are severe. It is clear and transparent what is and isn’t allowed, you will need to produce as much information and paper work as they require and see fit.

On an other hand, by driving your 996 illegally in Ireland you are not only cheating the rest of us out of our share of VRT you are not paying any road tax to use the car on the roads that our motor taxes pay for. (cue .. rants and flaming about how the government don’t use motor tax on roads etc ).

To be honest as I have paid my legal obligations on all the cars I have owned, if I knew you I would be very very tempted to make a call to the customs informing them of your activities. Call me bitter, jealous or whatever you wish, but I am willing to contribute my legal share, if you decide that you should be exempt .. do so at your own peril.

Excellent post.

Dagon

God, there is such a culture of fear on this forum :rolleyes:

I know I'm in the minority when say this but... relax...

I was actually stopped by gardai and given 1 penalty point for driving in the "hatch marked" area of the road while waiting for a chance to pull out. And yes, I was driving a non-VRT'd car.

When he asked me about the car, I gave him all documentation - went with it step by step with him, and told him I only had it in the country a couple of weeks and was in the process of VRTing it (not a lie). He looked through it vaguely, took it back to the police car. After a few minutes he came back and gave me my penalty point, and said nothing about the registration.

Just be honest about it and let them know you intent to VRT it, at some point

By the way, I DO intend to VRT my car eventually, but when it suits me. It's a dumb law, and the EU state that it shouldn't even exist, and are fining out government every year. If you want to pay it straight away, then fine. Just don't complain about those of us who like to dodge around it when we can!

By the way, I'm insured in Ireland and I don't pay anything else for now (no UK tax, or MOT - they mean nothing here anyway). I also drive safely, which is much more important than paying these dumb taxes imo.

sinbadfury

Henry Ford III wrote:

if I knew you I would be very very tempted to make a call to the customs informing them of your activities. Call me bitter, jealous or whatever you wish, but I am willing to contribute my legal share, if you decide that you should be exempt .. do so at your own peril.

Common problem with certain types here in Ireland. VRT is criminal, we all hate it, but more importantly are not prepared to do anything concrete to try and get it changed.

If someone wants to try and avoid the tax, albeit at their own risk, which they know and assume, then that is not the concern of any 'do gooders' like yourself.

Leave people to live their life the way they want. Now I don't know why you think one citizen should report another for the non-important issue of VRT, it is nothing short of bitter, and will not reduce your tax liability, improve the road you drive on or make your life better, unless of course you feel fulfilled as an Irish person for doing 'your-duty'

Why cant the Irish population get together and fight things like the VRT instead of turning on each other, over a measly couple of grand that makes no huge difference to society.

Also, just to note, I personally would pay VRT and do things by the book if I imported a vehicle, thats the way I am, but I sure don't begrudge others who are trying to save some cash....it's their choice and as long as they are insured and safe, heh, get on with your life...

whippet

Dagon wrote:

By the way, I DO intend to VRT my car eventually, but when it suits me. It's a dumb law, and the EU state that it shouldn't even exist, and are fining out government every year. If you want to pay it straight away, then fine. Just don't complain about those of us who like to dodge around it when we can!

By the way, I'm insured in Ireland and I don't pay anything else for now (no UK tax, or MOT - they mean nothing here anyway). I also drive safely, which is much more important than paying these dumb taxes imo.

you have just tripped yourself up in a big way there.

It might be a dumb law but it is the law. As far as I am aware the EU are not fining IReland for charging VRT. Plus we are not the only country that charges import on motor cars.

With regards to calling Motor tax a dumb tax, who or what will pay for the roads that you intend driving on? Your car isn't even MOTed, so there is no record of how safe your car is, how much pollutants it produces etc ....

Tax evasion is tax evasion regardless of the format, just like people who sponge off the system by not paying income tax etc, so I don't have to 'relax' and tolerate the likes of you who sponge off the majority of drivers who pay their share. If I am aware of someone evading tax I might at my discretion as a citizen of ireland report them.

On another note .. customs are more interested in risk to the exchequer and will work on the basis of trying to secure the most amount of lost revenue with their time. If that means stopping the Porsche with a potential VRT liability of €30K while allowing 4 mid 90's BWMs pass by on UK plates that is fair enough. But if you get caught you have chosen to take the risk and complaints about how you were left standing on the side of the road without the car will fall on deaf ears!!