How many eggs is too much eggs

bugle

Hi im a regular fella in the gym and i train for soccer on my off days,so im generally fit. As well as taking a protein supplement i also try and take as much protein throughout the day I can, example:scrambled eggs in the morning,beans and a pint of milk, for lunch i could have another two eggs etc etc. My main concern is the eggs as someone in work told me im eating drastically too many.Is this two much eggs to be eating, i am removing the yolk from the boiled eggs as it contains most the cholesterol. Id say im at least averaging 20 eggs a week. any imput would be great

amazingemmet

In a recent study (american journal of sports medicine last year sometime) done its been found that increased egg intake significantly lowers LDL cholestrol, the bad one and raises HDL, as well as lowering triglceride levels.

Personally I'm averaging about 40-50 eggs a week

bugle

holy crap thats a lot, well thats eased my mind anyway!!:D

davyjose

Yeah I heard that too - one of the lads in work was getting a hard time and I was trying to defend him, spotted something online somewhere saying that most of the cholesterol doesn't get converted directly into cholesterol in your own body, in much the same way that fat from a steak doesn't go straight to your belly without passing go, but has to get metabolised first.

rubadub

amazingemmet wrote:

Personally I'm averaging about 40-50 eggs a week

Is that with the yolks?

Paul Newman couldnt match that!

Beelzebub

Is this the study which you are referring to?:

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/suppl_5/556S

The conlclusion states:

"Although our results suggest that higher egg consumption is associated with lower serum cholesterol, this study should not be used as a basis for recommending higher egg consumption for regulation of serum cholesterol."

It doesn't recommend high levels of ingestion.

Getting your cholesterol checked would be advisable in any case.
Everybody is different, some are more prone to developing higher serum cholesterol levels than others.

g'em

amazingemmet wrote:

Personally I'm averaging about 40-50 eggs a week

Enjoying the Anabolic Diet then Oh bendy one ??

unreggd

Weird

the docs said my Dad had high cholesterol from eatin too many eggs [one a day]

Dragan

Personally I average a minimum of 4 whole eggs a day, every day. Have done for some time. I get my bloods done every 6 months and my doctor has never had anything to raises his eyebrow over.

because_I_can

amazingemmet wrote:

Personally I'm averaging about 40-50 eggs a week

:eek:
How much protein do you get per day?
full egss or just the whites?


Dont believe all doctors. Most havent a clue about a lot of things health related.
just cause someone has a piece of paper doesnt mean they know everything.
They're just the same as you and me, drank like mad thru college, scraped exams, bluff like fvck etc etc

bugle

if i can, i take out the yolks,cus i heard it contains most of the cholesterol.i was just wondering if there was such a thing as too many and if 4 a day was actually too many.if some people are ok with 40-50 a week then that tells me it cant be that bad

wasabi

The egg yolk is the GOOD bit! Packed full of vitamins and minerals.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Egg_Yolk.html

Like Emmet said, eggs do good things for your cholesterol levels. It isn't eggs people should be worrying about, it's refined carbs and trans fats, not to mention pesticides and antibiotics and all the other crap that comes in 'food' these days :mad:

brianthebard

I was restricting myself to about 6 per week, I'm definitely going to start eating more eggs from now on though! great protein and one of my favourite foods, a winner on all levels!!!

rediguana

My girlfriend will only eat the yolks. She's viciously fussy, generally.

Nobody ever died from eating too many eggs, that's my very unscientific position. Just like nobody ever got fat from eating too many nuts, or drinking too much olive oil.

But surely you'd grow to detest eggs if you ate more than (say) twelve a week?

davyjose

I think I read somewhere that you get better protein absorption when you eat the whole egg. Sometimes I don't though, if I'm feeling a bit too weighty.

brianthebard

rediguana wrote:

My girlfriend will only eat the yolks. She's viciously fussy, generally.

Nobody ever died from eating too many eggs, that's my very unscientific position. Just like nobody ever got fat from eating too many nuts, or drinking too much olive oil.

But surely you'd grow to detest eggs if you ate more than (say) twelve a week?

I guess using different receipes is important?

wasabi

Depends

Did you know that if you're a chef you're allowed have as many pleats in your hat as ways you know to cook eggs?

Personally I love omelettes, come in the door and you can have an omelette and salad on the plate ready to go in about 15 mins, and you can more or less throw in anything you have in the kitchen to make a different one each time

There's also boiled eggs, they're good to go in salads. Eggs florentine, scrambled or poached eggs for brekkie. Frittatas. Also quiches and souffles and tortes, slightly bold with the flour and pastry but soo tasty for special occasions.

rediguana

brianthebard wrote:

I guess using different receipes is important?

As it always is. But it's a big world, innit? Try other stuff.

It's like that old saying. You know - too many eggs spoil the broth.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

estariol

I eat 10 to 20 a week, discarding every second yolk (mainly eat omlettes), the amount of whole egges you eat should depend on the rest of your diet, ie what other sources of protein and fat/cholesterol you're getting.....meat, nuts etc.
Remember too much protein is bad for your liver, and too little fat screws you for your fat soluble vitamins.

amazingemmet

@Beezlub no thats the study i was talking about, the one i read was using athletes and had some of them eating up to 10 eggs a day iirc

@g'em yes the anabolic diet is great need to refine it a little though

@because i can whole eggs not just the yolk and i'm averaging 300-400gms of protein a day, 300gms of fats and <30gms carbs

g'em

estariol wrote:

Remember too much protein is bad for your liver, and too.

I'd like to see some back up for a claim like that.

davyjose

g'em wrote:

I'd like to see some back up for a claim like that.

g'em I think he meant kidneys - there has been some research, it's to do with them being unable to flush away all of the waste product (ketones) when you metabolise it.

amazingemmet

Eh ketones are what fats are reduced to in the body and all the studies have shown on the are excess protein consumption is bad if you have a pre existing kidney disorder

davyjose

Yeah, I don't know WHERE i got that from but I think the gist of what i'm saying has cropped up in certain theories. That too much protein effectively puts strain on the Kidneys.

Beelzebub

amazingemmet wrote:

@Beezlub no thats the study i was talking about, the one i read was using athletes and had some of them eating up to 10 eggs a day iirc

@g'em yes the anabolic diet is great need to refine it a little though

@because i can whole eggs not just the yolk and i'm averaging 300-400gms of protein a day, 300gms of fats and <30gms carbs

What? no that's the study or no that's not the study?
You do eat the whole eggs?
And can you point me to the study that you are talking about?

That diet sounds extremely unhealthy eg too much protein/fat and not enough carbs.
"Both deficient and excessive protein intakes have been shown to affect bone health negatively, although lower and upper thresholds have not been determined."
I would hazard that you are above the upper threshold.
From here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3961/is_200304/ai_n9225884
But if you get most of your protein from Meat this not an issue:
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbones.html

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Beelzebub

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

There appears to be some evidence that it does though:

http://www.annecollins.com/diet_news/high-protein-kidneys.htm

Credentials:
http://www.anemia.org/about/council/crawford.jsp

g'em

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

exactly. there has been reports of excessive protein being bad news, but only in those where renal function is weakened by disease or via genetic predisposition. It has no known proven ill effects on the liver at all.

g'em

Beelzebub wrote:

There appears to be some evidence that it does though:

http://www.annecollins.com/diet_news/high-protein-kidneys.htm

Credentials:
http://www.anemia.org/about/council/crawford.jsp

They're speaking specifically about high-protein weight loss diets and dehydration though. It's really rather hard to get an excess of protein in your daily diet unless you go out of your way to do so. In Emmet's case he's highly active, would train virtually every day and requires a high-protein diet in order to sustain that.

davyjose

Can I ask, is there any point to having 300g protein per day, I mean can your body use it as fuel as efficiently as carbs, and if so what is the benefit of getting all your energy from protein and fat, rather than carbs?

estariol

g'em wrote:

I'd like to see some back up for a claim like that.

credentials will be my degree in biochem, msc & approx 10 yrs as a research scientist including estensive research on the protein biochemistry of the fed fasting cycle, ketosis, the conditions of cold stress and the formation of BAT.
Basic fact excess protein is metabloised putting huge deamination stress on the liver.................try Kimball's Biochemistry.

eat excess protein and try smelling your pee.....that smell is due to the presence of excess ketones.

g'em

estariol wrote:

credentials will be my degree in biochem, msc & approx 10 yrs as a research scientist including estensive research on the protein biochemistry of the fed fasting cycle, ketosis, the conditions of cold stress and the formation of BAT.
Basic fact excess protein is metabloised putting huge deamination stress on the liver.................try Kimball's Biochemistry.

eat excess protein and try smelling your pee.....that smell is due to the presence of excess ketones.

You don't even need to smell the pee, just force yourself into ketogenesis and enjoy keto breath. I was never a big fan of Kimball's either, always found Voet & Voet an easier textbook to work from, and it's the one I recommend to my students.

If you've done published studies to prove that excessive (and in fairness, what constitutes "excessive"? Are you saying that the usual recommendation or around 1.2 - 1.8g protein/ kg body weight for a weightlifter or 0.8g/kg for hte "regular" person" is too much? Or are we talking about levels above and beyond that?) protein will result in irrevesersible liver damage and/ or disease then I'd genuinely love to see them, because to date I have yet to read a journal article that suggests that excessive protein will do more harm than good to the liver of an otherwise healthy individual.

As I said before when it comes to renal or liver damage induced by protein consumption there seems to virtually always be a pre-existing condition that renders that indivudal vulnerable to disease or ill-effects. The liver is a particulalry hardy organ and copes with a lot worse than too many amino acids in the gut. But hey, if I'm wrong I'd prefer to know about it!! Surely after 10 years' worth of "research on the protein biochemistry of the fed fasting cycle, ketosis, the conditions of cold stress and the formation of BAT" you've published extensively on the claims you've made??

Edit: sorry, didn't define my protein recommendations...

Dragan

*hums that Star Trek battle music ala Captain Kirk while the nerds get ready to scrap it out*

My money is on G'em......she's got chutzpah!

justsomebloke

I love a nerd off, as the rest of us are generally all winners from the new bits of info we get from both parties in them:D

davyjose

jsb wrote:

I love a nerd off, as the rest of us are generally all winners from the new bits of info we get from both parties in them:D

Exactly

Pygmie

g'em wrote:

You don't even need to smell the pee, just force yourself into ketogenesis and enjoy keto breath. I was never a big fan of Kimball's either, always found Voet & Voet an easier textbook to work from, and it's the one I recommend to my students.

Do you lecture in biochemistry G'em? Can you recommend some courses?

t-ha

davyjose wrote:

Can I ask, is there any point to having 300g protein per day, I mean can your body use it as fuel as efficiently as carbs, and if so what is the benefit of getting all your energy from protein and fat, rather than carbs?

My view is that although protein can be used for energy, its primary purpose is to act as the building blocks for muscles and other tissues. Carbs are by far the best macronutrient for raising insulin levels & I feel that a carb/protein combination is best for getting your body into an anabolic condition. Protein only does not raise insulin as much and is not as effective for anabolism, and is, in my experience, the most expensive macronutrient to buy.

As such, a super-high protein & low carb diet merely achieves what a more balanced protein & carb combination could've done at multiples of the price at the grocery till.

I have seen nothing to suggest that progressive over-eating of protein builds more muscle. To be more specific, if your pee smells like skanky sugar puffs, you don't need the amount of protein you're eating & you're literally pissing money away.

The benefits of using protein & fat for energy are mostly that;
1] You don't have meals that combine alot of carbs with alot of fat. These types of meals can lead to fat gain, as the carbs supply your bodies energy needs so much of the fat is excess. In a protein/fat diet, more of the fat will be used for energy.
2] Ketones, which are manufactured from protein for energy, are generally produced on demand & even in the case of caloric surpluses based on very high levels of protein many of these calorie containing ketones are excreted in your urine (making it smell like skanky sugar puffs). This, in combination with point [1] means that you can avoid fat-gain easier on this type of diet without having to be as careful as you would with carbohydrates (though you can still gat fat if you try hard). Carbohyrates are readily turned into triglycerides if they are not used for energy and stored as fat.

amazingemmet

Beelzebub wrote:

What? no that's the study or no that's not the study?
You do eat the whole eggs?
And can you point me to the study that you are talking about?

No that wasn't the study the one I read was in the taken from the american journal of sports medicine 2006 can't remember the author though. Also if you can try read the articles by dr mario dipasquale and it'll help you understand the type of diet i'm on

soma

What's the modern/general concensus on eating Raw Eggs?

justsomebloke

soma wrote:

What's the modern/general concensus on eating Raw Eggs?

don't, cook them

g'em

jsb wrote:

don't, cook them

how succinct :rolleyes: but true though. soma there's really two reasons for cooked vs raw eggs : with raw eggs there's always the risk (albeit) small of salmonella contamination. But more pertinently cooking eggs makes them more "bioavailable" - our bodies can utilise the protein they contain more easily.

Beelzebub

g'em wrote:

They're speaking specifically about high-protein weight loss diets and dehydration though. It's really rather hard to get an excess of protein in your daily diet unless you go out of your way to do so. In Emmet's case he's highly active, would train virtually every day and requires a high-protein diet in order to sustain that.

Judging by some of the diets that have been posted on this forum I it seems that people are finding it quite easy to obtain an excess of protein in their diets.
By which I mean more than 2grams of protein per Kg of bodyweight.

This section applies to High protein intake, regardless of whether you are trying to lose weight or not:

"Increased protein intake leads to a build-up of nitrogen in the blood. The nitrogen ends up at the kidney in the form of urea, where it needs to be cleaned from the blood and got rid of in the urine," explained Crawford. "The resulting increase in urination can cause dehydration, further straining the kidneys," he added.
High protein intake can cause dehydration - therein lies one potential for kidney damage.

Further from the same source:
http://chat.dailymail.co.uk/dailymail/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=24&thread=9498391&message=9498391

I would suggest that anyone embarking on this so called "anabolic diet" have both their liver and kidney functions tested at the outset and at frequent intervals on this extreme regime.
I would also suggest that everyone should have these checked yearly.
You will not know you have kidney damage until it is too late.
When kidneys are damaged they will not recover.(The exception to this is acute kidney failure from which they may then recover)
The liver is a more resilient organ indeed the only one which regenerates itself.
But risking damage to either of these organs is to say the least foolhardy.
I would further suggest that you avoid the diet until clinical research proves it to be safe.

davyjose

t-ha wrote:

My view is that although protein can be used for energy, its primary purpose is to act as the building blocks for muscles and other tissues. Carbs are by far the best macronutrient for raising insulin levels & I feel that a carb/protein combination is best for getting your body into an anabolic condition. Protein only does not raise insulin as much and is not as effective for anabolism, and is, in my experience, the most expensive macronutrient to buy.

As such, a super-high protein & low carb diet merely achieves what a more balanced protein & carb combination could've done at multiples of the price at the grocery till.

I have seen nothing to suggest that progressive over-eating of protein builds more muscle. To be more specific, if your pee smells like skanky sugar puffs, you don't need the amount of protein you're eating & you're literally pissing money away.

The benefits of using protein & fat for energy are mostly that;
1] You don't have meals that combine alot of carbs with alot of fat. These types of meals can lead to fat gain, as the carbs supply your bodies energy needs so much of the fat is excess. In a protein/fat diet, more of the fat will be used for energy.
2] Ketones, which are manufactured from protein for energy, are generally produced on demand & even in the case of caloric surpluses based on very high levels of protein many of these calorie containing ketones are excreted in your urine (making it smell like skanky sugar puffs). This, in combination with point [1] means that you can avoid fat-gain easier on this type of diet without having to be as careful as you would with carbohydrates (though you can still gat fat if you try hard). Carbohyrates are readily turned into triglycerides if they are not used for energy and stored as fat.

That's very interesting, t-ha, and helpful too. Just one thing, on a low carb diet, how would you make up for nutrients and vitamins, you would lose from vegetables. Most of the Carbs i eat, (after my porridge that is) come from vegys!!!

rubadub

That link mentions BBers but gives no figures. Endurance runners do not have that much muscle on them. In this link it gives figures for both

If an individuals protein requirement increases in response to exercise, then changes in protein metabolism will become apparent

A study found that endurance athletes (defined as training for at least 12 hours per week for at least 5 years) require 1.37 g/kg/day of protein to maintain nitrogen balance compared to 0.73 g/kg/day for sedentary individuals

It has been found that 2.0 to 2.2 g/kg/day of protein was barely sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate intensity weight training. Furthermore, weightlifter's protein requirements increased proportionally to training intensity. Research has shown that 2.0 to 2.6 g/kg/day of protein are required for periods of very intense weight training, whereas protein intakes of 2.0 g/kg/day maintained a positive nitrogen balance during periods of less intense weight training.

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Protein.html

amazingemmet

I've had mine tested and they're normal plus anyones bloodwork i've seen has shown huge changes for the better hdl is up, ldl down, and everything else is textbook. The reseach has been done and its safe. Seeing as you seem to have access to journals heres my reading list to accompany the logic behind the anabolic diet, its just a copy paste so some won't be relevant but its friday and i've just trained my ass off so am too lazy to sort them but they're all worthwhile reading so you can see the clinical research that proves it safe

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Beelzebub

Raw egg whites on their own ain't so good for you as they can lead to Biotin(a B vitamin) deficiency

t-ha

davyjose wrote:

That's very interesting, t-ha, and helpful too. Just one thing, on a low carb diet, how would you make up for nutrients and vitamins, you would lose from vegetables. Most of the Carbs i eat, (after my porridge that is) come from vegys!!!

Well, even low-carb diets will typically allow for 30 - 50g of carbs per day (however low the level needed to induce ketosis). Most veggies that I eat have something in the region of 3 - 7g of carbs per 100g, so at an average of 5g/100g that would still allow you 600g - 1kg of veggies a day. Loads!

Certaintly I've done contest-type dieting before and I kept the veggies in there virtually to the end.

Beelzebub

By clinical research I mean research done on human subjects who have been on the 'anabolic diet/solution' either long term or short term. Published research on these tests.
These kinds of tests haven't been carried out...yet as far as I am aware.
But if you have the data I'd love to see it.
As I said I would wait until this research has been carried out rather then be the guinea pig.
If it's proved safe then sign me up!

amazingemmet

If you search t-nation.com for a thread titled "my experience on the anabolic diet" you can see some results before and after of bloodwork etc. not conclusive but its a start

soma

g'em wrote:

how succinct :rolleyes: but true though. soma there's really two reasons for cooked vs raw eggs : with raw eggs there's always the risk (albeit) small of salmonella contamination. But more pertinently cooking eggs makes them more "bioavailable" - our bodies can utilise the protein they contain more easily.

Interesting.

The reason I asked is that this discussion of eggs reminded me of a routine I had about 12-13 years ago when I was a long distance runner. It's something I wouldn't dream of doing now (for the primary reason of salmonella you mentioned above), but back then (I can only guess that it was on the advice of some coaches) every day I used to have a huge glass of milk with two raw eggs in it.

I guess I should be glad I survived