[PR] They're on the way! New Intercity Railcars for National Network!

Victor

I wonder where they actually are, right now.

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=194

They're on the way! NEW INTERCITY RAILCARS FOR NATIONAL NETWORK! by Corporate Communications
31st January 2007



Iarnród Éireann has said the first 12 carriages of a 150-carriage order of new Intercity railcar trains, set to dramatically improve quality and comfort on the entire national rail service, have just left Korea by ship for Ireland.

The €322 million fleet of trains, together with a previous order of 67 carriages now operating hourly services on the Cork-Dublin route, will transform Ireland’s Intercity rail fleet from the oldest in the European Union to the newest by the end of next year.

The Intercity railcar order is funded by the Irish Government under the Transport 21 investment programme.

The first carriages, which were transported from Rotem’s factory in Changwon, Korea to the port of Masan, will arrive in Dublin Port in late February/early March.

Following a period of testing and commissioning, they will begin the process of transforming fleet across the network from this summer, when they will begin entering service, initially on the Sligo-Dublin route.

The entire fleet will be delivered through 2007 and 2008 and phased into service. Quality, comfort and frequency are set to improve on every single route on the radial Intercity network, courtesy of the 150-carriage fleet, operating on:
- Sligo/Dublin
- Rosslare/Dublin
- Waterford/Dublin
- Westport/Dublin
- Tralee/Dublin
- Tralee/Cork
- Galway/Dublin
- Limerick/Dublin

In addition, the arrival of the trains will provide a boost to capacity for Commuter area, as they will allow existing carriages in use on the Sligo and Rosslare lines to be redeployed on routes such as the Drogheda and Maynooth commuter lines, where demand is growing at record levels.

The fleet was ordered from Mitsui of Japan, in partnership with Rotem of the Republic of Korea and Tokyu Car Corporation of Japan.

Benefits to customers will include:
- Significantly higher frequency and capacity on all InterCity routes
- Modern on-board comfort standards
- The replacement of outdated fleet across the network; currently, over half the fleet on InterCity services is more than 30 years old
- Improved accessibility for mobility-impaired customers
- Better reliability and performance, with integral engines in each carriage

Features of the Intercity railcar fleet will include:
- Automatic PA and information display systems
- Fully air-conditioned
- Internal CCTV system for improved security
- Modern catering facilities
- Individual base seating
- Sleek carriage design
- Advanced safety features throughout

The 150 carriage Intercity railcar order will lead to frequency improvements across the rest of the network as follows, when all trains are in service in late 2008:

ROUTE FREQUENCY
• Dublin – Cork Hourly all day (in operation Jan 07))
• Dublin – Limerick Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak – mix of direct and shuttle services to/ from Cork service
• Dublin – Galway Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak
• Dublin – Waterford Every two hours all day
• Dublin – Sligo Every two hours all day
• Dublin – Westport 5 services per day - mix of direct trains and shuttle services Athlone-Westport, connecting to Galway service
• Dublin – Tralee Mix of through services and shuttle service Mallow-Tralee connecting to / from Cork service giving an overall 2 hourly service. (in operation Jan 07)
• Dublin-Rosslare Additional services to Arklow/Gorey/Wexford
• Branch lines Additional services

Chris_533976

STRIKE

easy_beez

I wonder how much extra this is going to put onto our fares, not that we're paying enough already!!!! 3, 5 maybe 10%.

chamar

Are they going to go any faster? I live in Wexford and it take 2 1/2 hours minimum to get to Dublin (80 miles) as well as there being no commuter service.....:mad:

Zhane

chamar wrote:

Are they going to go any faster? I live in Wexford and it take 2 1/2 hours minimum to get to Dublin (80 miles) as well as there being no commuter service.....:mad:

Just be glad we are getting a train. Those commuter trains are awful. I hate them.

KC61

chamar wrote:

Are they going to go any faster? I live in Wexford and it take 2 1/2 hours minimum to get to Dublin (80 miles) as well as there being no commuter service.....:mad:

There should be a reduction in journey times on the Rosslare route when these trains arrive, as they have a higher spec than the current commuter stock on the route. However, the section from Arklow to Wicklow has many speed restrictions that cannot be lifted due to the nature of the permanent way en route.

The purchase of new rolling stock has no impact on fares - it is capital expenditure. Increased fares pay for increases in current expenditure, such as fuel, wages, etc.

Red Alert

My god they're ugly. They really are.

Essentially you might be getting slightly improved seating but still with a very loud engine under your ass for your journey.

MLM

The new trains look pretty cool. Hope they stick a few on the new Limerick to Galway line

b3t4

I'm presuming the trains that they are getting in are the same as the trains running the Cork to Dublin route with the following statements.

Red Alert wrote:

Essentially you might be getting slightly improved seating but still with a very loud engine under your ass for your journey.

Have you been on the Cork to Dublin route recently on one of these new trains?

I found the new trains to be more than a slight improvement on the old trains. I found them comfier, roomier and well thought out.

For instance if you book your seat online it will put your name in lights over that seat on the train.

The heating works with no drafts and the announcements, although they get a little annoying due to the repetition, are clear and very easy to understand. They also scroll along in writing so that people with hearing impairments can see what's going on.

There is also a map of Ireland telling you how far along your journey you are.

These are the things I can think of off the top of my head. I think they are a vast improvement on what we had.

I did not notice the engine to be all that louder.

And from travelling in Italy and America the price of travelling by train in this country is lower in price.
A.

Victor

b3t4 wrote:

I'm presuming the trains that they are getting in are the same as the trains running the Cork to Dublin route with the following statements.

No, these are DMUs - diesel multiple units (an engine under every car or every second car), similar to the Arrow rail cars, but fitted for intercity / regional service rather than suburban service.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/9790539?view=Eircomnet

New rail carriages to arrive in March
From:The Irish Independent
Thursday, 1st February, 2007

THE first of 150 new rail carriages earmarked to replace Iarnrod Eireann's aging fleet have left Korea for Ireland.

The first consignment of a dozen carriages - costing €2.1m each - have been loaded in the Korean port of Masan, and are due to arrive in Dublin at the beginning of March.

Following a period of testing and commissioning, they will enter service on the Sligo-Dublin route. The entire fleet of 150 will be delivered through 2007 and 2008, and phased into service on all intercity routes. They will cost €322m. By the end of 2008 the fleet will be one of the newest in the EU. Currently half the fleet is over 30 years old.

The arrival of the trains will also provide a boost to capacity for commuter areas as they will allow existing carriages in use on the Sligo and Rosslare lines to be redeployed on the Drogheda and Maynooth commuter lines where demand is growing at record levels.

Carriages will be fully air-conditioned, have CCTV systems and each has its own engine.

Paul Melia

chamar

Zhane wrote:

Just be glad we are getting a train. Those commuter trains are awful. I hate them.

I've never actually taken that commuter thing that passes by my window everyday. It looks like an oversized dart. Not to mention that it is only a 'commuter' link if you don't mind getting into dublin for 10.30am. It would be good if they extended the early morning commuter from Gorey down to Wexford. ...

Hobbes

There are two kinds of trains that I saw when I was in Korea (excluding subway).

Normal train which was nice, and then the KTX which I have to say was absolute class. Very comfy and individual aircon for seat, had a TV showing movies/programs which you could listen to in your seat. High speed train though.

carrotcake

we're obviously not getting that one then!

John R

Hobbes wrote:

There are two kinds of trains that I saw when I was in Korea (excluding subway).

Normal train which was nice, and then the KTX which I have to say was absolute class. Very comfy and individual aircon for seat, had a TV showing movies/programs which you could listen to in your seat. High speed train though.

There won't be any similarity with those trains. They are high speed (200mph) electric units based on the French TGV stock and built mostly in France. The Irish trains are 100 mph diesels and certainly won't have video screens.

corktina

where are they now? i think they may be on that container ship in Devon (or ON Devon maybe .:) )

ardmacha

And from travelling in Italy and America the price of travelling by train in this country is lower in price.

I very much doubt if trains here are lower in price than Italy, which has very affordable rail fares and some pretty decent trains too.

J.R.HARTLEY

Currently half the fleet is over 30 years old.

The arrival of the trains will also provide a boost to capacity for commuter areas as they will allow existing carriages in use on the Sligo and Rosslare lines to be redeployed on the Drogheda and Maynooth commuter lines where demand is growing at record levels.

well i'd hope the over 30 year old carriages don't end up on the maynooth/drogheda lines, only the less older ones (if that makes sense), i have no complaint about the extra capacity but when you you are packed on the old trains its not always nice to be looking at the ground whizz by beneath your feet on a cold feb morning. some of the trains i have gotten have been falling apart, but overall its good news, fair play Iarnrod Eireann.

MarkoP11

Actually only 23% of the intercity fleet is over 30 years old, only Galway and Waterford routes have them. The average age of the commuter fleet is 5 years. The old trains are heading for the scrapheap. The problem is that suburban trains are currently on the Sligo/Rosslare Dublin routes, the first batch of intercity railcars go there releasing the commuter trains back to the suburban run, they date from 1999-2003

On the other hand the really old trains are reliable (only in summer) and there is many a passenger who would swap over crowding for them

Incidently the first 30 railcars due in 2007 where paid for by the NRA

SeanW

Zhane wrote:

Just be glad we are getting a train. Those commuter trains are awful. I hate them.

You and me both!

Red Alert

You will miss the Mark 2's when you've to listen to these for very long. Whatever about that I'd definitely take a Mark 3 coach rather than these things. The idea of a nice quiet train journey is over - once you stick an engine in something it just gets loud, you get vibrations etc, no matter how much engineering is done to reduce it.

A/C has been on all stock since the Mk2's and as such is not a selling point. Only the Mk3 push-pulls lack it because of power consumption problems.

And the ride quality on the Mk4 isn't all that much better than the Mk3 either.

It is also a waste of money considering the fact that we have serviceable 071 locomotives, and I'm not sure there will even be enough work for the 201 class at the end of all this. Does anyone know if the Mk3's are being retained as peak load coaches in all this mess?

MarkoP11

Mk4 ride is as good as a Mk3 since they fixed it, damn sight more comfortable drastically better interior and a lot quieter. The intercity railcar interior looks to be a better inside all the seats line up with windows and few if any are in airline style. I've seen the photos

The NI Railways 3CK which is classified as a regional train is perfectly quiet suffers from no vibration. Irish Rail refused the bid from Bombardier for the vibration heavy turbostar.

You won't find a single passenger who will complain when the Mk2d moving scrap heap is dumped, the Mk3 wont be missed either. What you will find is a bunch of sad trainspotters standing in the way of progress with pointless unfounded arguments just so they can take photos.

The passengers deserve better, a faster more reliable more comfortable journey. Industry experience shows passengers will flock to the new trains

Tazz T

Are there any studies or reports that compare the average speed of a irish train to other countries? I'd be interested in seeing how we fare against the rest of Europe. Our trains seems to be very slow in comparison to the ones I've been on on the continent.

Red Alert

No, from a practical point of view I certainly won't miss the Mark 2's. They're pretty antiquated by now. I don't see your point about the Mark 3's. The toilets could do with a refit but that's about it. A/C seems good enough too in them. But enough nostalgia!

My main beef with these things is that we're buying them unseen. Nobody knows what happens until the **** hits the fan. Compared to say buses, a demonstrator isn't always a viable option, especially with our rail gauge. However, seen as the order is so huge it might have been better to purchase one set with options for the rest, and give it a couple of months hard labour - 100MPH Running, doing fill-in duty on commuter, GAA Specials, trip to inchicore, RPSI Run (for the laugh). Get customer reaction, see its technical stamina in service.

Given the 201's and 071's availability - would a mixed DMU, Coach and push-pull order have been a cheaper and more value-for-money option?

A paint job on the Mk3's to look the same as the cork one I suspect would be advert enough for the non trainspotting public. Oh look, it's white!

dowlingm

there are advantages to standardising the fleet as much as possible, since it reduces the needs for spare crews trained on each variant and needing to "clear" each route for each type. That's one reason Aer Lingus dumped its mixumgatherum fleet in favour of A320s and A330s only.

Victor

dowlingm wrote:

there are advantages to standardising the fleet as much as possible, since it reduces the needs for spare crews trained on each variant and needing to "clear" each route for each type. That's one reason Aer Lingus dumped its mixumgatherum fleet in favour of A320s and A330s only.

Not quite, Aer Lingus has sub-varients (I'm not sure what the actual diferences are).

http://www.flyaerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Corporate/fleet.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1053055196.1170546826@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjaddkdiggklicefecfigdffgdfki.0&P_OID=-8064&Category=0

UK & Europe Routes 
Aircraft Type 		Quantity 	Engines 
Airbus A321 		6 		2 x CFM56-5B3 
Airbus A320 		21 		2 x CFM56-5B4 
Long-haul Routes 
Aircraft Type 		Quantity 	Engines 
Airbus A330-300		4 		2 x GE CF680E1A3 
Airbus A330-200		3 		2 x GE CF680E1A4

It does make sense to minimize the number of models in a fleet, but one has to manage (a) requirements suburban -v- intercity (b) block obsolesence and mass failure - you don't want all your trains to go bang at the same time.

I'm wondering if some of the soon to be retired rolling stock could be used to augment suburban services, e.g. put intercity stock on limited stop service on the Northern line (acceleration not as good as DMUs) on longer trains.

dowlingm

Victor - the EI fleet used to be Fokkers, Saabs, BAe 146s, Airbuses, Boeings At least they're down to two types (A320/A330) and two subtypes in each - a huge improvement in rationalisation - in fact in some ways almost too much. The issue is more that parts are virtually identical between the subtypes and so is crew qualification. In the old days you had to have spare flight and cabin crews rated for 146s, 737s and 320/1s - now you just have to cover that one A320/1 type.

IE has the same problem they have many different types of train and made by different manufacturers so commonality is... uncommon. IE can't simplify beyond four basic types - IC, regional, suburban DMU and DART. Mk4+Enterprise will be around a while and the 22000 series should simplify regional but the 2600/2700/2800 fleets and the mixed DART fleets will add complexity, training and maintenance issues for some time to come.

John R

MarkoP11 wrote:

The NI Railways 3CK which is classified as a regional train is perfectly quiet suffers from no vibration. Irish Rail refused the bid from Bombardier for the vibration heavy turbostar.

Have you actually travelled on the NIR C3k? I did yesterday and there is noticeable vibration and intrusive engine noise on high power. They are far better than the current IE DMU stock but are far from perfect. I hope these new units are a big step up from the standard of the C3Ks because they will be used for much longer journeys. Dublin-Tralee or Westport is a long way to be listening to the drone of an underfloor diesel, even a muffled one.

MarkoP11 wrote:

You won't find a single passenger who will complain when the Mk2d moving scrap heap is dumped, the Mk3 wont be missed either. What you will find is a bunch of sad trainspotters standing in the way of progress with pointless unfounded arguments just so they can take photos.

What is it with the P11 trainspotter obsession? You are like a bunch of gay-bashers trying desperately to repress their homosexuality.

Red Alert

I've heard a rumor that the Mk3 push-pulls are going to be around for a while and will undergo some sort of refit - anyone back this up?

DerekP11

John R wrote:

Have you actually travelled on the NIR C3k? I did yesterday and there is noticeable vibration and intrusive engine noise on high power. They are far better than the current IE DMU stock but are far from perfect. I hope these new units are a big step up from the standard of the C3Ks because they will be used for much longer journeys. Dublin-Tralee or Westport is a long way to be listening to the drone of an underfloor diesel, even a muffled one.



What is it with the P11 trainspotter obsession? You are like a bunch of gay-bashers trying desperately to repress their homosexuality.

Yes both Marko and I have travelled on the C3K.

As for the last part of your post....well, what can one say about such a broad, misguided statement. That point made about trainspotters is a reality not an obsession.There are web sites dedicated to the facts that will back it up. Its not some kind of homophobic type spin devised by a homophobic type organisation that doubts its own beliefs. Ordinary everyday users of the rail system couldn't care less about the demise of something old for something new. The only exception to this was the use of comuter railcars on the Sligo and Rosslare lines. Ordinary passengers complained about this. Trainspotters bring this criticism upon themselves, by publically declaring their love for the retention of trains that should have seen the cutters torch years ago.

As I have many Gay friends, I find the use of the term Gay-bashers in this thread offensive and unecessary.

Metrobest

DerekP11 wrote:

I find the use of the term Gay-bashers in this thread offensive and unecessary.

As is the use of the capital G in the word gay.

DerekP11

Metrobest wrote:

As is the use of the capital G in the word gay.

I just typed it the way John R typed it.;)