Car Reg system is idiotic

what_car

redspider wrote:

No doubt this has been debated before ...

Yes, we have it for years now, 1988 or perhaps earlier, but the current car registration plate system we use in this country is idiotic. There are several problems with it.

The first one is that it is uses years as an identifier, and with just two digits. This results in numerous problems. For example, car values are associated with age, but instead of a linear and smooth depreciation, a car's age is misconstrued with the reg year. This results in probably around 40,000 vehicles being bought in January and a mere 1,500 cars bought in December. A second problem with the year is when classic car's if imported are being re-reg'd, there are clashes. eg: A 1907 car has problems getting re-registered if imported if the owner wanted to use 07, etc. With each passing year there are more and more of these. The third issue is the keeping up with the jones problem. There are many innocent victims of this, including some old ladies that I know of that change their cars every couple of years just to get newer reg. The cars they are selling are more than adequate for their requirements and they are just giving money to dealers.

Other problems surround the location/county ID. What useful purpose does it serve when people are registering their cars not where they live but at any address they can get access to? Also, when people move and when cars get sold as they invariably, do the county ID is of no value. Its of no value in the first place anyway. If its of no value, why not use letters more appropriately.

The same goes for the numbers. Its base ten and requires many symbols whereas a letter and number combination could be base 36 and would require far fewer symbols for the same number of cars.

A new more efficient and non-annual based system is left 'as an exercise' to the Minster, and a 1st class project in any primary school !

Redspider

it makes me laugh to see dubs who have moved out of dublin, and living in louth/meath/kildare/etc and not actually living in dublin, buying a new car and registering it at mammys address or a sisters/bros address.... just so that they can get a D reg......how sad can u get..........reminds me of the rainman film............
"must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg"


"must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg"

the sooner they change the system so that you have to register a car at your primary residential address the better.................

Wishbone Ash

what_car wrote:

"must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg"
"must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg"

It is important for resale values in the upper end of the market. How many Ferraris, Aston Martins, Maseratis, BMW 6/7 series, Bentleys etc, do you see with a LM, CN, RN etc. registration. It would be motoring suicide. Loads of successful rural business people ensure that their cars have Dublin plates also!

Seth Brundle

what_car wrote:

the sooner they change the system so that you have to register a car at your primary residential address the better.................

how would you propose enforcing this?

redspider

Stekelly wrote:

stick to the soccer forum redspider.
Oh, and the reg system is great.

I'll have you know that I have opinions on more than one subject area! ;-)

But I disagree, I dont think the reg system is great, as you say, and there are well known problems with it. Even the Dealers who benefit from the current system to a large degree also are affected by the problems it brings and are in two minds whether to push for a change or not.

I also spotted this:
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2007/01/21/story20361.asp

Licence to sell for those with 07 plates

Sunday, January 21, 2007 - By Tony Colley
Can you believe that we are nearly one month into the eighth year of the 21st century?

Unbelievable to think that a 99 registration plate is on the front of an eight-year-old car which is bound to have mileage in six figures.

Is it cool to have an 07 registration or does that desire come from a deep-seated insecurity that is rooted in a fear of owning anything that approaches its sell-by date?

No one can deny the occasion of that moment in early January when the first new year registration plate is spotted.

My reaction is firstly to identify the brand and model of the vehicle before looking at the proud and recently impoverished person behind the wheel.

Figures are up and starting to reach the lofty heights of the millennium year, when car sales reached an all-time high, driven by that compulsion to have a new-smelling car with that distinctive ‘double 0’ status.

Sales of cars for 2007 are expected to top 200,000, as figures for the early part of January would suggest a rise generally.

Naturally, all new car buyers are delighted with the Bond-like status of an 07 registration, and are happy to have waited until the arrival of the new year to get it.

In years to come, that car will psychologically be a year younger than an 06 car registered last December. Consequently, its re-sale value will be higher, irrespective of the mileage on the clock.

It’s not surprising that end-of-year car sales are lower and good deals can be done for a November/December car if you don’t mind the fact that, very soon, it will be last year’s car.

Compare two identical new cars with zero mileage. The brand new January 07 example will be marginally more expensive than the late December 06 one, but it’s three to five years later that it becomes much more noticeable.

When it comes to value for money, the more discerning and less ego-driven car buyer will wisely seek a model that’s about to be discontinued in favour of a newer version - advance warnings of replacement models can often be found in the motoring press.

If it’s an ‘end-of-year’ car that’s better still, so real bargains can be found in the classified ads. Check this out. Two Volkswagen Passats, both are 1.6 FSI Comfortlines. One is the old 2005 model with 21,000 kilometres, the other is the new 2006 model with 9,000 kilometres on the clock.

The difference in price is a massive €6,000.

Similarly, two BMW 520 2.2Ls - one is the current model (20 0 4 with 37,000 kilometres), one is the old (2003 with 62,000 kilometres).These have a difference in price of €13,000.

Across the water the registration system, while not having the actual year in the display, is not unlike our own.

However, the age is denoted by a letter, which changes every six months, so with a little knowledge, it is easy to work out how new or old the car is.

This perhaps slightly reduces the jump in value that we are accustomed to here in January every year.

Years ago, a car registered in a very rural region like Donegal or Sligo could never fetch the same price as its urban equivalent, but today the differences are marginal. The perception used to be that a car that has spent its life in a rural situation might have had a rougher ride than its urban counterpart and might not be in as good a condition.

The county identification registration system, introduced in 1987, is useful when tracing a car’s geographical history, but a complicated formula of letters could confuse even the most nerdy amongst us.

D for Dublin and C for Cork make sense but most are two letters - decipher WH, WW, WD, WX, TS and TN. Fairly easy for a native like myself but I have had difficulty in explaining some of these to tourists.

Vehicle registration numbers in Ireland were introduced in 1903 and many veteran and vintage cars carry very distinctive numbers. All ‘numbers’ contained either I or Z and this was consistent up to 1987.

Prior to that, a witty buyer might order an individual number eg, VIP 1 (this subsequently fetched a record price at auction). However, RIP 1 might not be considered appropriate on a hearse.

At one point in the early 1970s it was decided to reverse the order displayed on the plate.

Until then the letters preceded the numbers, so the entire sequence could run again with the letters at the end.

I recall spotting an Alfa Romeo in Dublin with the very individual registration 1 Z - the reverse of its counterpart, Z 1, from about 30 years before.

We in Ireland don’t attach the same significance to distinctive registration numbers as our nearest neighbours do, preferring to have a less conspicuous vehicle identity.

It is also illegal to transfer numbers from car to car in Ireland.

A glance at the classified ads in the English Sunday newspapers will show columns of pretty tenuous ‘numbers’ that are usually neither anagram nor acronym.

Recently at a classic car auction, the registration number M1 fetched a higher price than that achieved for a classic AC Cobra from the 50s, reaching over stg£300,000. The winning bid was from the proud father of a boy called Michael.

Ultimately our current system, like all previous ones, will become exhausted. I understand that there are more changes on the way and the suggestion is that new codes will be added to the administrative counties currently sharing codes.

These are likely to be CK for County Cork, GY for County Galway, DR for Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, FL for Fingal and SN for South Dublin.

Confused? You will be.

Its all very well people saying that it aint broke, but the evidence is there with sales in January about 20-30 times that of sales in December. Any country with half a brain in its transport planning has moved away from an annual system due to the inherent problems that it brings along.

In Ireland's case, we only adopted an annual system late on (1987), but in those 20 years the full range of possible affects of such a system have been borne out. Its all very nice in throey for people to estimate the month of a car based on numbers but in practice that doesnt happen. Even the dept staff would have difficulty knowing whether an 07-D-25634 is newer or older than an 07-LM-723.

The problem mentioned about car model's, such as 07, etc, being manufactured in 06, and perhaps as old as 2 years sitting in a large car park somewhere is a different problem. Manufacturers love the idea of putting ages on their cars for the same reasons.

Overall, its not the biggest problem we are facing in ireland or indeed in transport but if it was changed tomorrow, I would think it a step in the right direction.

redspider

Gregor Samsa

what_car wrote:

"must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg" "must have a dub reg"

Works both ways. There was a guy down the road from me when I lived in Dublin who wouldn't drive anything but a Cavan registered car. Another woman up the road who went to Wexford every two years to make sure she didn't get a D reg. In the end, who cares?

Seth Brundle

@redspider - I still don't see a problem and remain unconvinced on the need for change.
The fact that cars registered in December tend to fetch a lower resale price than one registered a month later is not a problem. People choose to avoid this but for those that don't they supply the second hand market with cheaper cars for those who are not vain enoough to consider year above most other things.

Wishbone Ash

phutyle wrote:

Another woman up the road who went to Wexford every two years to make sure she didn't get a D reg.

Why did she have to go to Wexford? All she had to do was give a Wexford address when buying in Dublin!

ninty9er

kbannon wrote:

@redspider - I still don't see a problem and remain unconvinced on the need for change.
The fact that cars registered in December tend to fetch a lower resale price than one registered a month later is not a problem. People choose to avoid this but for those that don't they supply the second hand market with cheaper cars for those who are not vain enoough to consider year above most other things.

Plus only an idiot would pay list price for a car in December, while you realistically have no choice but to do so if you want a new car in January (fair enough you can get a dicsount at any time of year, but Decemeber is an easy time to get a bigger one as dealers have targets to meet)

ninty9er

Stekelly wrote:

Yeah he's in a vel satis atm (or at least was last year), I've been keeping an eye out for it on the car sales sites.

Anyone know if they are sold off after the year or passed through a few people before being sold to the general public?

My cousin is currently driving 06-L-1 until the uncle sells it (it's a Prius btw, but 07-L-1 is an Avensis, cutbacks at city hall eh:rolleyes: )

Gregor Samsa

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Why did she have to go to Wexford? All she had to do was give a Wexford address when buying in Dublin!

She didn't buy new cars. I assume she felt Wexford had a bigger pool of used WX cars to choose from than Dublin.

She is also an idiot.

Wishbone Ash

phutyle wrote:

She didn't buy new cars. I assume she felt Wexford had a bigger pool of used WX cars to choose from than Dublin.

Yes, sorry - I presumed you meant a new car.

sk8board

kbannon wrote:

Not everyone!
Anyhow, so what if thousands want their cars at the start of a year. There are no reports of problems within the motor tax offices or VROs.

oh yes there is, unfortunately. Both this year AND last year, the reg office in Rosslare introduced an on-line registration feature for car garages. It crashed for 2 whole days last year and very few cars were registered on the 2nd and 3rd of January. Drove the garages NUTS!

This year it crashed for the 2nd Jan. The only reason it didn't go down for longer was that a lot of garages started registering their pre-sold cars on New Years Day, soon after mid-night.

The sales director of our local garage told me this just a few hours ago today; I was picking up a new car for my better half.

unkel

What kind of system is that, that it can't handle a couple of thousand registrations a day? :rolleyes:

sk8board

unkel wrote:

What kind of system is that, that it can't handle a couple of thousand registrations a day? :rolleyes:

You would think!

I guess if there are 22k reg's in first week of this year, there are probably 4.5k regisrations per day on the 2nd and 3rd during working hours.
Its probably an Atari 2600.

Incidently, wifes reg is 07 D 13xxx, although i saw one in the garage that was 16xxx.

IrishRover

phutyle wrote:

She didn't buy new cars. I assume she felt Wexford had a bigger pool of used WX cars to choose from than Dublin.

She is also an idiot.

PMSL

sk8board wrote:

Its probably an Atari 2600.

and ROFL

Blitzkrieger

Wishbone Ash wrote:

That shouldn't be a problem as the 'anorak' can change a year format registration to a ZV (but not the other way around).

Sweet. Are you sure though - I thought it was the other way around? That you could change from a ZV to a '67 but not from a '67 to a ZV.

Wishbone Ash

Blitzkrieger wrote:

I thought it was the other way around? That you could change from a ZV to a '67 but not from a '67 to a ZV.

Vehicle Registration and Taxation Regulations 1992 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI318Y1992.html

Section 9

(4) The identification mark of a vehicle shall remain assigned to the vehicle and no other such marks shall be assigned to the vehicle save in such circumstances as may be determined by the Commissioners or where the owner of the vehicle requests that the identification mark assigned to a vehicle which reaches 30 years of age be replaced by a mark in the ZV series.

In simple terms, any vehicle over 30 years old can have it's registration replaced with a ZV one.

Esel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Vehicle Registration and Taxation Regulations 1992 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI318Y1992.html

Section 9

(4) The identification mark of a vehicle shall remain assigned to the vehicle and no other such marks shall be assigned to the vehicle save in such circumstances as may be determined by the Commissioners or where the owner of the vehicle requests that the identification mark assigned to a vehicle which reaches 30 years of age be replaced by a mark in the ZV series.

In simple terms, any vehicle over 30 years old can have it's registration replaced with a ZV one.

Pretty sure this means that an existing registered car, under 30 years old, can be changed to ZV when it reaches 30 years old. It says nothing about being able to change from say 70 D 12345 to nnnnn ZV.

G Luxel

I have seen a 06 reg car but it was originally registered in the UK and bears a high reg december number but it was only registered a few days ago. How this affect its value, I dont know. I think the owner or dealer should have got a month related number, ie low figures

Someone mentioned Model Ts as not possible to get a 07 on them. I do know
that in 2003 there were 5 of them built by Ford from scratch to celebrate the company's I00 anniversary, so you never know, one of them might turn up here.

Wishbone Ash

esel wrote:

Pretty sure this means that an existing registered car, under 30 years old, can be changed to ZV when it reaches 30 years old. It says nothing about being able to change from say 70 D 12345 to nnnnn ZV.

I'm 99.9% sure.

Esel

G Luxel wrote:

I have seen a 06 reg car but it was originally registered in the UK and bears a high reg december number but it was only registered a few days ago. How this affect its value, I dont know. I think the owner or dealer should have got a month related number, ie low figures.

Not possible, afaik. Numbers are allocated in sequence. Say you import a Jan 03 car - you will get the next available number in the 03 series for the county you are registering in.

Wishbone Ash

esel wrote:

Not possible, afaik. Numbers are allocated in sequence. Say you import a Jan 03 car - you will get the next available number in the 03 series for the county you are registering in.

You can request to get numbers that have not been allocated. I think most local authorities hold the first 200 numbers, unless they have been reserved. There may be some left over. Occasionally, a top end imported car can be seen with a low number presumably to 'hide' the fact that's it's an import.

Victor

These are likely to be CK for County Cork, GY for County Galway, DR for Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, FL for Fingal and SN for South Dublin.

Presumably South Dublin would be SD (could be mistaken for SO - Sligo) or DS in the style of South Tipperary (TS).

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote:

Presumably South Dublin would be SD (could be mistaken for SO - Sligo)

Or as I overheard one day "SO - that's South Offaly". :rolleyes: