Car Reg system is idiotic

redspider

No doubt this has been debated before ...

Yes, we have it for years now, 1988 or perhaps earlier, but the current car registration plate system we use in this country is idiotic. There are several problems with it.

The first one is that it is uses years as an identifier, and with just two digits. This results in numerous problems. For example, car values are associated with age, but instead of a linear and smooth depreciation, a car's age is misconstrued with the reg year. This results in probably around 40,000 vehicles being bought in January and a mere 1,500 cars bought in December. A second problem with the year is when classic car's if imported are being re-reg'd, there are clashes. eg: A 1907 car has problems getting re-registered if imported if the owner wanted to use 07, etc. With each passing year there are more and more of these. The third issue is the keeping up with the jones problem. There are many innocent victims of this, including some old ladies that I know of that change their cars every couple of years just to get newer reg. The cars they are selling are more than adequate for their requirements and they are just giving money to dealers.

Other problems surround the location/county ID. What useful purpose does it serve when people are registering their cars not where they live but at any address they can get access to? Also, when people move and when cars get sold as they invariably, do the county ID is of no value. Its of no value in the first place anyway. If its of no value, why not use letters more appropriately.

The same goes for the numbers. Its base ten and requires many symbols whereas a letter and number combination could be base 36 and would require far fewer symbols for the same number of cars.

A new more efficient and non-annual based system is left 'as an exercise' to the Minster, and a 1st class project in any primary school !

Redspider

prospect

This was covered very recently. And judging to the responses the last time round, I wouldn't be expecting much support.

Gerry

Your points are valid, but I haven't heard of any major pressure to change the system. The one issue that is under peoples control is the "keeping up with the jones". How can you be an "innocent victim" of this? Its rubbish. If someone is stupid enough to buy a new car every few years, thats their problem. People are obsessed with the number plate and won't be talked out of it.

Gregor Samsa

Most of the problems you outline are with people's perception of the system, and not the system itself.

The system we have is actually very good at doing what it is supposed to do: uniquely identify the vehicle. If a car speeds away from a hit and run, which is going to be easier for the average witness to remember: 92 G 4568 or 12HJ852K ?

Even partially remembering a reg number is helpful in identifying a car. The fact is that since we understand the format of the registration (year, county number), it makes it much easier to remember than some cryptic base-36 mess.

County letters are used as most people in the country can associate them with something easy to identify with (a county name), and it allows the sequential number that follows to be used up to 26 times (or more since L and LK are used in Limerick and TN/TS in Tipp).

About thinking that a car bought in January and December are the same "age", a quick look at the sequential number value will tell you roughly where what part of the year the car was registered in (lower numbers early, higher later - obviously county dependent, but then the reg number handily provides you with that information too). A small bit of research (something anyone should do when buying a car) will tell you exactly when it was registered.

As for having "07" on an imported classic car - I'm not sure what problems you allude to, but surley no one is going to see a Model T Ford with an 07 plate (I know, they were first produced in 1908, it's just an example) and think it's straight out of the factory? A 100 year gap is more than enough to avoid confusion between what's new and what's classic.

mike65

If anything 'keepy-uppy' is good for us cheapskates who can exploit all that date-stamped metal as it looses value.

Mike.

_Kaiser_

The "keeping up with the jones'" has nothing to do with cars. It's Irish begrudery and a reg change ain't gonna fix that!

The current system makes it very easy to identify a car when required (which is the point remember - it's not intended as a status symbol). Having the county included helps this.

Personally I'd never buy a new car anyway (unless I was swimming in money and I'm not! ) so having the year on the plate doesn't bother me - if anything, for the above reasons, I prefer it!

redspider

redspider wrote:

eg: A 1907 car has problems getting re-registered if imported if the owner wanted to use 07, etc. With each passing year there are more and more of these.

I don't think this is a big problem at all...
Infact who in their right mind would want a new style 07 plate on their classic car when they could get one of the old fashioned ZW ones.

RobAMerc

Agree totally mate but I wouldn't expect much support here.

This was covered recently where I was accused of being dishonest as I suggested hiding the age of an older car from the "Oh its an 97 banger brigade" so people might get past that to realise its still a serious bit of kit.

redspider

I realise its a known thing and in the overall scheme of the world and indeed Ireland, its not the highest of priority of things to fix. To me it just seems that the January sales figures compared with the December (and indeed the rest of the year) just gets worse and worse, and due to the squeeze at the dealers, customers can and do get ripped off. As another poster alluded to, the cars have been sitting somewhere for many months usually after being manufactured.

Note that most countries avoid the yearly peaks problem by adopting a better identification system. Even the UK moved to a six monthly system in recent years doing away with their 'traditional' "the year starts in August". That was after we copied their annual system, A reg, B reg, etc.

Maybe a month system could help, eg: 07A, 07B, 07C, etc, or a more neutral random letter system representing the year. I dont buy the theory that the current system is easy to identify cars. Most people when a car flashes by may have some grasp of the NN-County part, but its an 04-D-something wont help the Gardai, at all!

You all and I have more important things to be dealing with ....

redspider

Wishbone Ash

phutyle wrote:

it allows the sequential number that follows to be used up to 26 times (or more since L and LK are used in Limerick and TN/TS in Tipp)

And lets not forget Waterford - W and WD

Infact wrote:

who in their right mind would want a new style 07 plate on their classic car when they could get one of the old fashioned ZW ones.

ZV (ZW is Kildare)

mike65 wrote:

If anything 'keepy-uppy' is good for us cheapskates who can exploit all that date-stamped metal as it looses value.

Yes, I hope they continue to want to keep up with the Joneses.

Guy:Incognito

stick to the soccer forum redspider.




Oh, and the reg system is great.

ronoc wrote:

I don't think this is a big problem at all...
Infact who in their right mind would want a new style 07 plate on their classic car when they could get one of the old fashioned ZW ones.

Even if they do, its hardly like people will mix up the age anyway.

unkel

Stekelly wrote:

stick to the soccer forum redspider.




Oh, and the reg system is great

*spits drink laughing* Rarely have I agreed more with a post

cast_iron

Wishbone Ash wrote:

ZV (ZW is Kildare)

What makes ZW wrong and ZV right?

crosstownk

There is very little wrong with the current reg system.

I don't see any point in grading it monthly as suggested previously - as the current system uses numbers in series it's easy enough to spot if a car is an early or late registration for any given year.

Essentially the system offers easy identity of a vehicle - and it does just that quite well.

The chances are that if the reg number is late in sequence, the car is the next years model. For example, if you have a Sept 06 registered Passat, its actually an 07 model - the chassis number will easily verify this. Very few manufacturers change the production year on Jan 1st.

As for 'keeping up' - thats a mental problem - not a registration problem.

Wishbone Ash

cast_iron wrote:

What makes ZW wrong and ZV right?

I'm not fully with you on that question cast_iron.

ZW is a former registration format for Co Kildare.

ZV is an optional registration format assigned to imported vehicles more than 30 years old (if desired by the owner instead of the year/county/number) or it can be assigned to originally Irish registered vehicles once they reach 30 years of age (if preferred by the owner).

Maybe you could clarify your post?

Esel

One change that would make sense (for when people only get partial plate details) in an accident/robbery situ) would be for the number part to come first, not last.

12345 D 07 but the witness only gets the '12345' part. Much easier for the car to be traced, instead of 'Duh, it was an 07 D'.

Wishbone Ash

esel wrote:

One change that would make sense (for when people only get partial plate details) in an accident/robbery situ) would be for the number part to come first, not last.

12345 D 07 but the witness only gets the '12345' part. Much easier for the car to be traced, instead of 'Duh, it was an 07 D'.

If a person gets the make/model of car and the 07 D, it is a lot easier to narrow that down via PULSE that a mixed up number with no year.

It's an academic argument re robberies etc. anyway as a criminal is highly unlikely to use his own car.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote:

ZV (ZW is Kildare)

I knew it was Z some thing!:D

Esel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

If a person gets the make/model of car and the 07 D, it is a lot easier to narrow that down via PULSE that a mixed up number with no year.

It's an academic argument re robberies etc. anyway as a criminal is highly unlikely to use his own car.

1. You think the average Mrs. Brown on the street knows much about make and model? 'It was a red car, 07 D, you can find that on Pulse yeah?'

2. Who said anything about the witness getting a 'mixed up' number?

3. Robberies etc. A car with false plates can still be identified from street cameras before/after the robbery.

Silvera

The '1234-WW-07' format is already in use for Trade Plates.

There was an article recently where some dealers were calling for "a monthly registration system" for new cars. Didn't say how it would actually work. Perhaps small vertical numbers at the end (r/h side) of the plate (as with Italian plates) could be one possibility.....e.g. 01 for Jan, 02 for Feb etc etc

Victor

redspider wrote:

The same goes for the numbers. Its base ten and requires many symbols whereas a letter and number combination could be base 36 and would require far fewer symbols for the same number of cars.

Base 36 registrations are harder to read (ask the Royal Mail).

ronoc wrote:

Infact who in their right mind would want a new style 07 plate on their classic car when they could get one of the old fashioned ZW ones.

14 D 1 actually features in the Michael Collins film.

prospect

There is no problem with the reg system imo.

The problem (if you can call it that) is with the muppets who think they must have a current year plate.

However, as someone pointed out earlier, it is great for those of us who want to pick up a 2yo car for good money.

*edit - spelling*

Blitzkrieger

ronoc wrote:

Infact who in their right mind would want a new style 07 plate on their classic car when they could get one of the old fashioned ZW ones.

I don't know - I was thinking of putting a new style plate on my classic (when I get it). I think it's a great way of saying you don't give a fupp about keeping up with the Joneses. The only thing putting me off doing it is it might make it harder to sell on if some anorak wants an old style one.

cast_iron

My mistake Wishbone, I thought the ZV was for another county as opposed to the "old option".

Silvera

Victor wrote:

14 D 1 actually features in the Michael Collins film.

It's actually 15 D 1.........
Dublin's 2015 Lord Mayor won't be happy!:D
(He gets the first reg of each year for the official car)

Guy:Incognito

Yeah he's in a vel satis atm (or at least was last year), I've been keeping an eye out for it on the car sales sites.

Anyone know if they are sold off after the year or passed through a few people before being sold to the general public?

Wishbone Ash

Blitzkrieger wrote:

The only thing putting me off doing it is it might make it harder to sell on if some anorak wants an old style one.

That shouldn't be a problem as the 'anorak' can change a year format registration to a ZV (but not the other way around).

johnnyrotten

I think it works fine. If its not broken - Don't fix it.

BTW it started on 1st Jan 1987

sk8board

johnnyrotten wrote:

I think it works fine. If its not broken - Don't fix it.

BTW it started on 1st Jan 1987

I agree, but I think peoples main issue is that the annualised registration system has pushed everyone into 'reg-chasing', and 55% of the years cars are registered in the first Quarter or each year.

Seth Brundle

Not everyone!
Anyhow, so what if thousands want their cars at the start of a year. There are no reports of problems within the motor tax offices or VROs.

Wishbone Ash

kbannon wrote:

There are no reports of problems within the motor tax offices or VROs.

Nail and head - and some people would like us to believe that public servants can't/don't want to work. :rolleyes: