TV License Loophole!

EricM

I was annoyed last week to receive a threatening letter addresed to me from an post saying i must pay the TV license.

Since I am renting my apartment i guess they got my name from NTL.

I mostly use my TV for watching DVDs and XBOX and i now regret subscribing to NTL.

What caught my eye was "for any person to have, hold, keep, install, maintain or use any wireless telegraphy apparatus without a current television license"
This got me thinking, i dont use wireless, i have a cable box.

So i read the wireless telegraphy act at
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988_19.html

Now it appears to me that even if my TV is capable of receiving wireless (RF) signals that i have to have a license.

So if i take apart my TV and remove the RF receiver (or use one without RF, such as a LCD/computer monitor) i would no longer have a "wireless telegrapy apparatus". and since NTL/DVD players/game system use SCART connections, i would not ever need the RF receiver.

Does anyone else agree?
Please give me your input.

Thanks,
Eric

qwertplaywert

you mother-fúcking genius

sweet-rasmus

i'd say it would take alot to argue it out tbh. there are too many licenses to pay as it is...

spurious

My father has some friends who live up the side of a mountain somewhere. They had a visit from the TV licence people.

They wrote a mad letter in Irish to them bemoaning the lack of Irish language programming and the general decline of the state since Vatican II, only worsened by the death of De Valera.

They never heard from them again - presumably their file has 'LOON' written on it.

Hagar

Gold star for effort. Let's know how it goes for you.

Isn't there a certain irony in being sent to gaol for non-payment of a TV Licence and being put in a cell with a portable TV that you don't have to pay a licence for?

qwertplaywert

there some boys

Hobbes

EricM wrote:

So if i take apart my TV and remove the RF receiver (or use one without RF, such as a LCD/computer monitor) i would no longer have a "wireless telegrapy apparatus". and since NTL/DVD players/game system use SCART connections, i would not ever need the RF receiver.

It would then fall under a "Broken TV" which basically says in the license laws that you have to pay.

turbot

Also - it is not possible to get an NTL Internet connection, unless you also subscribe to their TV service.

If we have to pay for a TV Licence, then I think the public should get to vote about the content it is used to create. This would be easy to do in terms of technology.

Cal

"any wireless telegraphy apparatus"

This if taken literally would also cover any mobile phones,radios or wireless routers. I think they have most things covered.

Cal.

Thrill

Scart can connect to satillite boxes so your t.v. set is still capable of recieving wireless signals.

EricM

From my understanding of reading the act i have come to the following conclusions.

It does not matter if you have NTL/cable/sky digital/broken tv. if your TV has a RF receiver, meaning it is capable (whether you use it or not) of receiving wireless transmissions you need a license.

If the TV does not have a RF receiver, it is NOT capable of receiving wireless transmissions, you can still use digital cable/sky digital/dvd player/xbox/ps2 etc... but not analogue cable or an ariel (RF/wireless) and you dont need a license because it does not meet the definition of "wireless telegraphy" in the act.

EricM

Cal wrote:

"any wireless telegraphy apparatus"

This if taken literally would also cover any mobile phones,radios or wireless routers. I think they have most things covered.

Cal.

Mobile phones, radios, routers are not "telegraphy" (TV) devices.

Hard Larry

I was always lead to believe you were paying for the pipe connection installed in your house regardless of wether you use it or not. I also thought I saw something recently about them bringing laptops and PCs into the act.

The best way to beat the system is not get in it. If you never start paying it they wont find ya. But thats disturbing about NTL grassing you up surely they are violating some privacy law there.

Cal

EricM wrote:

Mobile phones, radios, routers are not "telegraphy" (TV) devices.

Since when does telegraphy exclusively mean TV?

Cal.

BostonB

The detector van detect the signals from a tuner, so they know what you are watching and when you were watching it. By wireless telegraphy apparatus I think (but no 100%) its referring to the tuner not the TV itself. As that's the bit that allows you to watch broadcast signals. Thats why a Computer with a tuner requires a licence. But therefore a TV without a tuner doesn't. IMO at least.

Mind you if you have NTL you really can't complain about them asking you for a licence. Of course you could have no tuner and only use the BB connection. I doubt though a Judge would see the distinction, and bringing it to court would likely cost you more than paying the licence in the first place.

Thrill

The definition of a t.v. set is described by the broadcasting and wireless telegraphy act, 1988 as...

"Television set" means any apparatus for wireless telegraphy capable of receiving and exhibiting television programmes broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

This seems to cover more than just RF.

EricM

BostonB wrote:

Mind you if you have NTL you really can't complain about them asking you for a licence. Of course you could have no tuner and only use the BB connection. I doubt though a Judge would see the distinction, and bringing it to court would likely cost you more than paying the licence in the first place.

Yes but digital tv does not require a tuner.
So it is possible to have a TV/computer/etc.. without a tuner and still watch NTL digital or sky digital.

The new revisions to the act (im not sure if they are actually put into law yet) still require the device to have a RF receiver/tuner.

EricM

thrill wrote:

"Television set" means any apparatus for wireless telegraphy capable of receiving and exhibiting television programmes broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

Still wireless.

A TV without RF receiver cannot recive wireless broadcasts.

mick.fr

In France you have to pay TV license based on any TV tuner capable machine.
It means if you buy any PS2, satelite module, satelite dish, VCR, the shop where you bought it from will send your details to the tax office (Mandatory) and then if you are not already registered with them you will receive the bill.

This law caused many issues in France because Grandpa and Grandma when they bought PS2 to their grandchildren, many bills went out lol.

The Irish law is also, as far as I understood, covering any capable TV tuner device. This includes TV tuner card for PC.

Now if you do not want to pay you have to prove that the TV Tuner feature of your device has been disabled by a professional. This would be ok in France, but here I do not know.

superdudeman007

If there really is a loophole, they'll probably see this and change the rules.

It's just like the way RTE are obviously monitoring boards - if someone bitches about the lighting on Six One or the positioning of a vase on the set of Seoige and O'Shea, it magically changes.

Thrill

EricM wrote:

Still wireless.

A TV without RF receiver cannot recive wireless broadcasts.

You mean if i took out the RF reciever from my T.V. then my sky box, which is connected by scart lead, would not work?

is_that_so

I think you could find yourself in court OP. I had a visit as well at one time and we got 28 days to sort it out. Good luck with it or just get rid of the TV.

Zambia

1: I challenge anyone to prove the existence of an An Post detector van !!!

2: If you never pay it your house still appears on a database of premises without TV's. You will get a visit from an inspector.

3: Messing with the inards of a TV is not advisable. There is enough residule vlotage in there to really surprise you.

Pay the licence and express you distaste at the minister of Communications office.

If you are intent on not paying it , do not answer the door to strangers. They are only ever looking for your ,vote , your cash or your balls. Think about it has any stranger ever knocked on your door and given you good news.

Hagar

Zambia232 wrote:

Think about it has any stranger ever knocked on your door and given you good news.

Yes. Many times.

Rb

OP: I say you give it a shot, good luck with it and report back how it went.

byte

EricM wrote:

Yes but digital tv does not require a tuner.
So it is possible to have a TV/computer/etc.. without a tuner and still watch NTL digital or sky digital.

The new revisions to the act (im not sure if they are actually put into law yet) still require the device to have a RF receiver/tuner.

Yes, it does. Any digital TV device such as an NTL box or Sky box all have tuners. So you'd still need to pay the license, regardless of what you do with the TV tuner.

Lump

Just Pay! Or get rid of your tv and play your consoles on a monitor.

If you have sky, you still have to pay the license....

John

Milktrolley

We got the whole threatening letter dealy because if you leave out the townland in our address, the post will still get to us. We paid the licence with our full proper address, yet got the letters addressed to our shorter one. Kinda annoying.

Anyway, if you are planning on doing it, you would also need to remove whatever tuners from any VCRs, DVD Recorders et al, seeing as how you could always get the RF signal through those and connect it to your TV via SCART. They may very well have the loophole you mentioned covered elsewhere though, so if you try it, fair fecks but take care!

Hobbes

EricM wrote:

A TV without RF receiver cannot recive wireless broadcasts.

It is still a TV though. Just because it can't receive wireless broadcasts when the guy bops around there is nothing to stop you at a later point putting the thing back in you took out. Hence the "Broken TV" part of the law.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/media/tv_licences#rules

Mossy Monk

pay your tv license you tight fisted bastard

BaZmO*

BostonB wrote:

The detector van detect the signals from a tuner, so they know what you are watching and when you were watching it.

You do know that the "detector van" didn't actually detect anything? It was just used to scare people into thinking they'd caught if they didn't get a license.

Victor

Hard Larry wrote:

The best way to beat the system is not get in it. If you never start paying it they wont find ya. But thats disturbing about NTL grassing you up surely they are violating some privacy law there.

Who delivers your NTL bill?

Zapho

thrill wrote:

Scart can connect to satillite boxes so your t.v. set is still capable of recieving wireless signals.

Then technically, you'd have to pay a tv licence for a PC monitor that has composite in or s-video in too, but you don't.

Lump

Mossy Monk wrote:

pay your tv license you tight fisted bastard

LOL, nice reply

Hobbes

Zapho wrote:

Then technically, you'd have to pay a tv licence for a PC monitor that has composite in or s-video in too, but you don't.

Don't worry they are trying to change the law in that regards.

BaZmO* wrote:

You do know that the "detector van" didn't actually detect anything? It was just used to scare people into thinking they'd caught if they didn't get a license.

Not true at all. Some nice tech on it...
http://www.tvlicensing.biz/detection/index.htm

There are also ways to view PC monitor screens from a distance as well.

byte

That link doesn't seem to work, Hobbes.

Deflector

LicenCe.

Unless you go to high school and drive to the mall to get gas.

The broken set provision covers everything - move on, focus your energies elsewhere, stop being so mean-spirited about having to pay for Irish 'programs'. Or 'shows' - sorry.
Welcome to the grown up world of taxation for the greater good.

supergrip

EricM wrote:

Yes but digital tv does not require a tuner.
So it is possible to have a TV/computer/etc.. without a tuner and still watch NTL digital or sky digital.

The new revisions to the act (im not sure if they are actually put into law yet) still require the device to have a RF receiver/tuner.

yes it does. the tuner is in the STB. Tuner none-the-less. Without a tuner of some sort, regardless of where it is located, you will not be able to watch digital or analog tv.

jor el

EricM wrote:

Since I am renting my apartment i guess they got my name from NTL.

Nah, with the Data Protection Act in place it's not possible for them to do this. Cablelink used to dob people in alright, but that was before Data Protection. It is however very possible for the guy doing the inspection to ask the postman who is currently receiving letters at any address without a licence. Armed with a name, they simply send out the letter.

The only way to avoid paying is to get rid of all TVs from the house and invite an inspector in to show him you have none. That should stop the letters for a while but they'll probably start again after a bit.

Shouldn't the embarrassment alone be enough reason for you to get a licence and stop being a TV sponger? Oh the shame!

Victor

jor el wrote:

Nah, with the Data Protection Act in place it's not possible for them to do this. Cablelink used to dob people in alright, but that was before Data Protection.

RTE used to part own Cablelink.

radioman

BostonB wrote:

The detector van detect the signals from a tuner, so they know what you are watching and when you were watching it.

This post made me laugh hysterically.

jor el wrote:

It is however very possible for the guy doing the inspection to ask the postman who is currently receiving letters at any address without a licence. Armed with a name, they simply send out the letter.

This does happen. I worked as a postman and often got asked by the license inspectors who lived where.

skywalker

Victor wrote:

Who delivers your NTL bill?

The data protection act states information can only be used for the purpose it is collected for though doesnt it? NTL sending you a bill and putting your address on it has nothing to do with a tv licence.

spurious

They don't have to breach the Data Protection Act at all. They just presume everyone has a TV and act accordingly.

Address without TV licence listed = visit.

RaiseTheBlinds

Mossy Monk wrote:

pay your tv license you tight fisted bastard

no,... dont give them another penny,... this government taxed us over 100 million last year that they couldnt spend,.... not everybody is minted from the celtic tiger, only a select few and its bloody tough to survive if your not rich and wealthy in todays world.

i can understand needing a licence for a car / motorbike / and even a dog,......but having a licence for a tv is like having to have a licence for a fridge or a dining table.

its absolutely absurd !!! then they tax people 40E a year for having a credit card !!! crazy. never mind the bin charges.

look how this money is being spent and swindled. they want the money out of your pocket and into their's and they dont care what excuse they need to conjure up.

is_that_so

RaiseTheBlinds wrote:

no,... dont give them another penny,... this government taxed us over 100 million last year that they couldnt spend,.... not everybody is minted from the celtic tiger, only a select few and its bloody tough to survive if your not rich and wealthy in todays world.

i can understand needing a licence for a car / motorbike / and even a dog,......but having a licence for a tv is like having to have a licence for a fridge or a dining table.

its absolutely absurd !!! then they tax people 40E a year for having a credit card !!! crazy. never mind the bin charges.

look how this money is being spent and swindled. they want the money out of your pocket and into their's and they dont care what excuse they need to conjure up.

Don't forget the kitchen sink.

DonalN

and an arm and a leg...

Mossy Monk

RaiseTheBlinds wrote:

no,... dont give them another penny,... this government taxed us over 100 million last year that they couldnt spend,.... not everybody is minted from the celtic tiger, only a select few and its bloody tough to survive if your not rich and wealthy in todays world.

i can understand needing a licence for a car / motorbike / and even a dog,......but having a licence for a tv is like having to have a licence for a fridge or a dining table.

its absolutely absurd !!! then they tax people 40E a year for having a credit card !!! crazy. never mind the bin charges.

look how this money is being spent and swindled. they want the money out of your pocket and into their's and they dont care what excuse they need to conjure up.

you are on the wrong forum. this thread is about the tv license. society would be better off without you tax dodgers :mad: :mad:

MoreBeer

Mossy Monk wrote:

pay your tv license you tight fisted bastard

Well said! I couldn't put it better myself.

Stark

RaiseTheBlinds wrote:

i can understand needing a licence for a car / motorbike / and even a dog,......but having a licence for a tv is like having to have a licence for a fridge or a dining table.

Well the government isn't providing you food for your fridge or dining table. It is providing you channels for your TV.

I agree with you on the credit card ripoff point though.

wingnut

Get a slingbox and a PC monitor. Set the slingbox up at a mates house that pays the TV licence.

Lump

Or just pay the license.....