Looking @ a BMW 3 series opinions?

Elessar

I am also interested in the 3 series. Can we get some more opinions. Apart from the badge, what sets it apart from say, a similar spec A4 or Passat (which are generally cheaper at the same level)?

Eoin

Elessar wrote:

I am also interested in the 3 series. Can we get some more opinions. Apart from the badge, what sets it apart from say, a similar spec A4 or Passat (which are generally cheaper at the same level)?

Apart from the fact that it's RWD, the compact is also a hatchback - not a saloon like the two cars you mentioned.

CarLover

Elessar wrote:

I am also interested in the 3 series. Can we get some more opinions. Apart from the badge, what sets it apart from say, a similar spec A4 or Passat (which are generally cheaper at the same level)?

Good question. I can only speak for the coupe.

RWD makes a big difference. That's how cars are supposed to be made (or 4WD). It gives the car balance...and far superior handling.

The A4 is a nice car. It handles well (for a front wheel drive car). To compare like with like though you need to be comparing class with class. So BMW coupe you'd compare to Audi TT....with similar engine size. Unless you're in the market for a 3 series saloon?

A Passat is a family saloon...and not even a luxury family saloon. I don't think you can comapre that to a BMW to be honest. Best of the bunch though if you're looking at one is the 130BHP TDI. Great performance.

Besides the badge snobbery that follows BMW there's fantastic build quality, great handling and performance (if you go for a straight six), well thought out internal design, practicality and finish. So it's about luxury as well as handling.

Biro

CarLover wrote:

Good question. I can only speak for the coupe.

RWD makes a big difference. That's how cars are supposed to be made (or 4WD). It gives the car balance...and far superior handling.

The A4 is a nice car. It handles well (for a front wheel drive car). To compare like with like though you need to be comparing class with class. So BMW coupe you'd compare to Audi TT....with similar engine size. Unless you're in the market for a 3 series saloon?

A Passat is a family saloon...and not even a luxury family saloon. I don't think you can comapre that to a BMW to be honest. Best of the bunch though if you're looking at one is the 130BHP TDI. Great performance.

Besides the badge snobbery that follows BMW there's fantastic build quality, great handling and performance (if you go for a straight six), well thought out internal design, practicality and finish. So it's about luxury as well as handling.

To be honest, the 3-series handling characteristics are a little over-rated. It is good, and the steering is nice in them, but they're not exceptional. RWD isn't necessarily equal to better handling either. Compare for example an integra type R to a peugeot 505!! It does help for sure, and for two cars with a well configured chassis and a sporty orientation, the RWD will give a sharper drive no question.
For the normal driver though I can't think of a reason to push them towards a 3-series over, say, an A4. Each have pro's and cons, and most new 3-series buyers I reckon wouldn't know which wheels were driven anyway, let alone be fussy about their steering inputs.

BnA

I would strongly advise against buying that car for 2 reasons. 1 practical, 1 not so.

1) When the time comes for you to more on, you will find it almost completely impossible to sell. I don't mean difficult or it may be a bit of a pain in the butt to sell, I mean it will be nigh on impossible to sell.

I know it doesn't matter to you and fair play to you but generally Compacts are only ever bought by people who want to get a bare fingernail into the BMW badge. They cannot pay the Tax\Insurance and MPG's on a 2.5 litre car. They will only want 1.6 or maybe the 1.8 at a stretch. But, 2.5 not a hope.

On the other hand, larger engined BMW's are bought by people who are more into their cars and into their BMW's in particular and are not afraid to spend a few quid on Tax and Juice to drive a nice car. And (as the reply's in this thread will have shown you) to the vast vast majority of those people, the Compact is quite simply embarassing. The Coupe is cool, the Saloon isn't bad, but the Compact is awful.

So basically, people who buy Compacts want small engines. People who want power, don't want compacts.

2) My second point is the same as everyone else here. It is utterly utterly awful.

How about something like this (And you'll save yourself a grand):
http://www.cbg.ie/Car_detail.asp?CBGID=589667&ID=874619&NumPics=3&Make=BMW&Model=325i%20SE&frmFilter=#

Or you have any number of E36 or 46 coupes to choose from. Can you honestly tell me that you think this

http://carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=329779

looks better than this :

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=496211

P.S. If anyone's on the lookout for a early Ci Coupe bargin I just came accross this on Carzone.....
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=572988

CarLover

BnA wrote:

I would strongly advise against buying that car for 2 reasons. 1 practical, 1 not so.

1) When the time comes for you to more on, you will find it almost completely impossible to sell. I don't mean difficult or it may be a bit of a pain in the butt to sell, I mean it will be nigh on impossible to sell.

I know it doesn't matter to you and fair play to you but generally Compacts are only ever bought by people who want to get a bare fingernail into the BMW badge. They cannot pay the Tax\Insurance and MPG's on a 2.5 litre car. They will only want 1.6 or maybe the 1.8 at a stretch. But, 2.5 not a hope.

On the other hand, larger engined BMW's are bought by people who are more into their cars and into their BMW's in particular and are not afraid to spend a few quid on Tax and Juice to drive a nice car. And (as the reply's in this thread will have shown you) to the vast vast majority of those people, the Compact is quite simply embarassing. The Coupe is cool, the Saloon isn't bad, but the Compact is awful.

So basically, people who buy Compacts want small engines. People who want power, don't want compacts.

2) My second point is the same as everyone else here. It is utterly utterly awful.

How about something like this (And you'll save yourself a grand):
http://www.cbg.ie/Car_detail.asp?CBGID=589667&ID=874619&NumPics=3&Make=BMW&Model=325i%20SE&frmFilter=#

Or you have any number of E36 or 46 coupes to choose from. Can you honestly tell me that you think this

http://carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=329779

looks better than this :

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=496211

P.S. If anyone's on the lookout for a early Ci Coupe bargin I just came accross this on Carzone.....
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=572988

Absolutely spot on post!!

CarLover

Biro wrote:

To be honest, the 3-series handling characteristics are a little over-rated. It is good, and the steering is nice in them, but they're not exceptional. RWD isn't necessarily equal to better handling either. Compare for example an integra type R to a peugeot 505!! It does help for sure, and for two cars with a well configured chassis and a sporty orientation, the RWD will give a sharper drive no question.
For the normal driver though I can't think of a reason to push them towards a 3-series over, say, an A4. Each have pro's and cons, and most new 3-series buyers I reckon wouldn't know which wheels were driven anyway, let alone be fussy about their steering inputs.

The coupe has far better handling to the saloon. And it's RWD steering/ handling characteristics are pretty obvious if you step into an A4 afterwards. But again I'm not comparing like for like. I've driven a 1.8T before and various 3 series. There's no comparison in my opinion.
The overall experience is quite different. I suppose it depends on how into cars you are. I'm not necessarily a badge snob...love lots of cars as long as they're good. But I would definitely notice the difference.

I'd agree though that if you're driving a 316 or 318i you may not see what all the fuss is about!

prospect

Elessar wrote:

I am also interested in the 3 series. Can we get some more opinions. Apart from the badge, what sets it apart from say, a similar spec A4 or Passat (which are generally cheaper at the same level)?

First of all, I assume you are interested in the 3 series saloon, if you are comparing to an A4 or Passat.

Personally, and this is only personal opinion (as nearly everything else you hear on boards), I think very little sets it apart.

The BMW is a fine car. They are nicely built and reliable. But are they worth the premium price tag, NO. The only main differences between the 3 series and the other cars you mentioned are the price, the standard equipment and the BMW is RWD.

Is the BMW more reliable, NO. It is reliable, but it is far from the most reliable brand on the market.
Is it the ultimate in performance, unless you go for an M car, NO. Some models performe better than rivals, but similarly the opposite is also true.
Do you get more standard equipment for your money, NO.
Do you get better re-sale, sometimes, but not always. You really need to get a high spec'd one to guarantee good resale as there are so many 3-Series BMWs on the market. You will pay a premium for a top spec machine, and this kinda negates the resale argument.

Everything else is subjective, looks, interior design. I find the looks to be, meh. I find the interior to be harsh and bland. But others love that.

So, I would say drive them all, and decide on which one you think you would WANT to drive, as opposed to which car you HAVE to use to go to work in the morning.

Elessar

prospect wrote:

First of all, I assume you are interested in the 3 series saloon, if you are comparing to an A4 or Passat.

Personally, and this is only personal opinion (as nearly everything else you hear on boards), I think very little sets it apart.

The BMW is a fine car. They are nicely built and reliable. But are they worth the premium price tag, NO. The only main differences between the 3 series and the other cars you mentioned are the price, the standard equipment and the BMW is RWD.

Is the BMW more reliable, NO. It is reliable, but it is far from the most reliable brand on the market.
Is it the ultimate in performance, unless you go for an M car, NO. Some models performe better than rivals, but similarly the opposite is also true.
Do you get more standard equipment for your money, NO.
Do you get better re-sale, sometimes, but not always. You really need to get a high spec'd one to guarantee good resale as there are so many 3-Series BMWs on the market. You will pay a premium for a top spec machine, and this kinda negates the resale argument.

Everything else is subjective, looks, interior design. I find the looks to be, meh. I find the interior to be harsh and bland. But others love that.

So, I would say drive them all, and decide on which one you think you would WANT to drive, as opposed to which car you HAVE to use to go to work in the morning.

You know, in essence I would agree with you. BMWs are expensive cars. I was looking at the coupe or the saloon (wouldn't go for a hatchback like that), but it's like anything, you're paying for a premium brand and supposedly good driving. Like people who buy Sony tvs or expensive alienware PCs knowing there are other models that are similar for much cheaper.

The only way to find out is to drive the cars, which I will do once I get my full licence.

How is the coupe (318i/320D) compared to the saloon models?

Mc-BigE

OP. any pics of the car your looking at? I’ve seen a couple of nice ones around with wider wheels and a nice body kit (BMW kit i think) which improves the looks .
325 engine is going to be expensive to tax and insure if your young.

you should also look at the Audi A3 (newer 3 door model) as an alternative

Eoin

Elessar wrote:

How is the coupe (318i/320D) compared to the saloon models?

You should probably start a new thread for this?

I don't think the e46 coupe came in a diesel model (320CD) over here - I certainly have yet to see one on Irish plates. The e46 coupes are named with a "c" after the number - e.g. 318ci, where as the saloon will be 318i or 318SE etc (I think this denotes the trim level).

Mc-BigE

Interesting info. Thanks to everyone that put loads of effort in to their posts!

My views.
Looks wise its subjective and I'm not too pushed on what people think it looks like to be honest. I quite like it.. Lets face it if everyone had the same taste in cars it would be quite a boring world.

Tax, insurance and running costs have been priced and look managable.

BnA: Interesting point about selling on, I don't agree 100% with you but it is something I want to look into further.

So Far for me:
For:
Good Performance
RWD / handling
Looks (no sniggering down the back!)


Against:
Possible lack of resale value
Fuel /Tax

Mc-BigE wrote:

OP. any pics of the car your looking at? I’ve seen a couple of nice ones around with wider wheels and a nice body kit (BMW kit i think) which improves the looks .
325 engine is going to be expensive to tax and insure if your young.

you should also look at the Audi A3 (newer 3 door model) as an alternative

http://carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=329779

Edit: fixed url

RobAMerc

eoin_s wrote:

You should probably start a new thread for this?

I don't think the e46 coupe came in a diesel model (320CD) over here - I certainly have yet to see one on Irish plates.

Yes there is - 320cd is the coupe diesel you can even get a convertible diesel too.

Eoin

RobAMerc wrote:

Yes there is - 320cd is the coupe diesel you can even get a convertible diesel too.

I know there is one available, I have just seen feck all of them over here. I have seen a few on carzone alright, at least one of them on UK plates. If it was available over here, I would have thought it would be a much more common sight.

Fey!

OP - whilst I don't personally like the looks of the compacts, the best of luck with it if you choose it.

I am inclined to agree with posters who have mentioned the difficulty of resale - consider that the main dealer is finding it difficult to shift, and they'll be warrantying it. The 2.5 version will probably not appeal to many, as I feel the compact is more for the badge snobs (I feel the same about the 1 series).

Having only driven an e36 compact (the older one), I found it to be more cramped to drive than it's coupe counterpart (that said, I'm big and fat!). This may not be the same with the e46, though.

Best of luck with it.

Stky10

As the owner of a compact, there's nothing wrong with them. I like the look of them, whereas I don't like the look of most of the saloons (although I like the coupe's, I'll probably trade up to one next time I'm in the market). That doesn't mean I was looking for a "bare fingernail into the BMW badge" when I bought it. I couldn't really give a monkeys for the BMW badge or for those that think it important either. I'll drive what I like, and not what someone who wonders if people think him silly or a w***er by what he drives thinks. I've got quite a few compliments from friends/acquaintances since I've got it about how well it looks (it being in black helps probably).

While most compacts in Ireland are the 1.8L 316ti petrol, if you search around enough you'll find a 2.0L 318ti petrol or a 2.0 diesel 320td. They'll be much easier to sell on than the 2.5L version and yet should give you the performance you're looking for without the high(er) cost of tax and fuel.

kdevitt

The compact is a smashing car to drive - will be picking up one for the missus in a few months. Thought about the 325 - but as said above, theres a limited market for it so will be going for the 320d instead.

That said - I'd avoid the one you listed. The interior is definitely an acquired taste and I'd imagine you would have issues trying to sell it on.

unkel

RobAMerc wrote:

Yes there is - 320cd is the coupe diesel you can even get a convertible diesel too.

I don't think either was ever sold in this country

kdevitt

unkel wrote:

I don't think either was ever sold in this country

They were - Joe Duffys had a 320cd for sale a while back. Lovely car too.

unkel

kdevitt wrote:

They were - Joe Duffys had a 320cd for sale a while back. Lovely car too.

There are a few other S/H ones on carzone at the moment:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=574899

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=535033

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=568614

I thought they weren't originally sold here though?

kdevitt

Fairly certain they were offered here - the one in Joe Duffys was unregistered, was parked up near the parts desk.

unkel

kdevitt wrote:

Fairly certain they were offered here

As in most things BMW, I'll take your knowledge over mine, K

I just seem to remember advising someone to go for the diesel coupe a few years back, only to be met with a response that it wasn't actually for sale here. If only the search on boards.ie would work properly again I might have found that link!

Eoin

kdevitt wrote:

They were - Joe Duffys had a 320cd for sale a while back. Lovely car too.

Could it not have been an import? I would have thought that Ireland would be a particularly strong market for it, and there would be a lot more around.

Gatster

If you can get to the UK , this looks good. Theres quite a few on Autotrader.co.uk, a black one with 29k for £8500 as well as the above.

As for 320cd, I saw an 06-D registered one on the M50 before Xmas in the dark grey colour, they were definitely available...

unkel

Gatster wrote:

As for 320cd, I saw an 06-D registered one on the M50 before Xmas in the dark grey colour, they were definitely available...

As Eoin suggested, that could have been a UK import

bazz26

There are quite a few 320cd coupes for sale on carzone.ie. It looks like the diesel was only available in the facelifted E46 coupe.

Owen

Lots and lots of FUD on this thread. Firsly Ronoc, don't be a bit afraid of a Compact. It's been discontinued since 2004, and we still get regular enquiries for them. They were are a sought after model for a lot of people. The 6 pot 2.5 Litre engine may just put a few people off due to prohibitive tax, service costs, and insurance, but having 6 cylinders is always a positive selling point to the right punter - if you can find them! Compacts sell is equal numbers to Men and Women. I had a 320ti SE demo compact, in 04, and I seriously considered buying one for carting around my Music Equipment, it was that versatile with the hatch, and still had that great e46 dashboard.

To answer the question on the 320cd, yes, very few sold. They were offered in Ireland, and I sold 2 myself. Quite expensive, and have a limited audience, but a great machine. 1 of the ones I sold is coming back in on a trade in quite shortly, and I'm looking forward to selling it for the second time.

These are unusual models, and our road tax, and VRT system limits their audience. In the UK people weigh up their options, and buy the engine that fits their requirements. What we spend on VRT, the UK spends on Leather, SatNav, larger displacement engines, etc.

I'm not spending much time on boards, or thread watching anymore, so if anyone has specific questions, please feel free to PM me. Thanks to Unkel for giving me the heads up on this thread.

unkel

ned78 wrote:

To answer the question on the 320cd, yes, very few sold. They were offered in Ireland

Thanks ned78, for the definitive answer on that one

ned78

ned78 wrote:

Lots and lots of FUD on this thread.

Thanks for the info ned78

Yeah I was surprised by the response to be honest. Not much feedback about the things like driving it or performance. More the looks or how hard it would be to sell. Both of which I care little about!

Its a fairly big investment so I plan on holding on to it for a while. That and its a fairly inconspicuous looking hot hatch. Test driving it tomorrow so I will keep yees updated.