Armed gardaí to police streets over December

the_syco

julep wrote:

it's not a jungle out there. it's relatively harmless. nobody needs a gun. not one single person needs to be armed. ok, there is the exception of a select few gadai who do actually need to be armed in order to defend themselves agains the lunatic farmer holed up in his cottage. apart from that, there is absolutely no need for anyone to be armed in any way whatsoever.

Dublin is a place where, in broad daylight, on an open road, people get gunned down, drive by shotings happen, and you think we should just cover our f*cking heads in the sand? What'll deter you from acting a muppet more? A Garda coming towards you with a concealed pistol, or one with a SMG?

faceman

the_syco wrote:

Dublin is a place where, in broad daylight, on an open road, people get gunned down, drive by shotings happen, and you think we should just cover our f*cking heads in the sand? What'll deter you from acting a muppet more? A Garda coming towards you with a concealed pistol, or one with a SMG?

even a step below that, people get mugged in streets in broad daylight in open view of other people. Rarely does Joe Public step in. Easy pickings for criminals.

I have no issue with limited supply of armed gardai on the streets. They wont be just handing out firearms to everyone like christmas crackers, im sure there will be some form of test both psychological and physical before they can carry one. (Well i hope anyway!!!)

There are cctv cameras all over city centre, im sure we wont get a repeat of the rodney king epsiode in temple bar!

markk06

the_syco wrote:

What'll deter you from acting a muppet more? A Garda coming towards you with a concealed pistol, or one with a SMG?

Reminds me of when i was in Mexico... We stayed in cancun so it was certainly not the ghetto, but the security guards that patrolled the shopping centre carried automatic weapons.. there was the definite "dont **** with me" vibe about them...

The only guy not afraid of them was the guy who guarded the jewellers, with an m-16... I assume there were very few shoplifters here...

So maybe people would think twice about robbing a shop, shooting someone or battering someone if they faced the prospect of a bullet in the head

Dave!

markk06 wrote:

So maybe people would think twice about robbing a shop, shooting someone or battering someone if they faced the prospect of a bullet in the head

Do you think so or do you think that they'd get a gun too?

What do you think a heroin addict is gonna do? "Oh I'd better get off the drugs now..."? "Maybe I'll get a 9-5 job instead"?

No, it'll just mean that they'll have to get a gun and shoot the Garda first.

Sure, there'd be less kids going joyriding, less assaults on the street, etc., for fear of being shot, but it would greatly increase the level of danger that the Gardaí face, and that's not what we want. As it stands Gardaí aren't frequently caught in the middle of gun-fights. It's innocent by-standers. Do we want to throw our police-force into the mix too?

I'd also say that a great (unarmed) Garda presence on the street would cut down alot of the joyriding, assaults, etc. It's bloody ridiculous how few ya see on the streets. The only time I see a Garda in my area is when they're in my local chipper.

5500

In West Dublin (blanch,clondalkin,tallaght ect) its been quite common for the past few months to see armed gardai on checkpoints ect weilding machine guns so its nothing new really but strange pulling up to one having your tax checked by one gaurd and some special forces looking guy looking in your other window

Backtoblack

julep wrote:

holy crap. sh said "town" in reference to Dublin and she's from cork. wonders will never cease.
prepare to have your Cork citizenship revoked by angry boards members from Cork.

ah for god's sake. Dublin is not that big
Cork is an entire republic of its own.

Are there Cork members? I miss home!!!!

markk06

"No, it'll just mean that they'll have to get a gun and shoot the Garda first."



Firstly its not the heroine addicts that are shooting people.

You say that the criminals will arm themselves better if the Gardai have guns?? The simple fact of the matter is that criminals are arming themselves better. Crime in this country is getting much more ruthless.. Take for example the innocent plumber who was killed. These people dont care who they kill so next its going to be a Garda. So do you not think its better to protect our police force, the people who have defended our state for years against some of the most advanced criminal elements in the world, or let them try stop this problem with no armed assistance. Get real

Catari Jaguar

I believe that the Gardai don't even have a shooting range to practice?

How very clever :rolleyes:

There are already 3000 armed Gardai from what I know so this isn't very new.

Backtoblack

markk06 wrote:

"No, it'll just mean that they'll have to get a gun and shoot the Garda first."



Firstly its not the heroine addicts that are shooting people.

You say that the criminals will arm themselves better if the Gardai have guns?? The simple fact of the matter is that criminals are arming themselves better. Crime in this country is getting much more ruthless.. Take for example the innocent plumber who was killed. These people dont care who they kill so next its going to be a Garda. So do you not think its better to protect our police force, the people who have defended our state for years against some of the most advanced criminal elements in the world, or let them try stop this problem with no armed assistance. Get real

The poor junkies would inivitably end up selling the gun for a "hit"!!! :rolleyes:
And most of the ****ers that sell it are too clever to ever touch the stuff.

I don't think Guardai having guns would aggrivate the situation to be honest, as someone else mentioned, its not that uncommon to see some "special forces" for example at checkpoints etc, with uber-serious guns at hand.

CLADA

Lil Kitten wrote:

I believe that the Gardai don't even have a shooting range to practice?

I think they lost their tactics town in Templemore, it was replaced with some new building, as far as I know they use military ranges for firearms training.

netwhizkid

In the wake of what is going on in Dublin which now even makes Limerick look like two toddlers fighting over a mars bar. There is drastic Measures need ASAP, Firstly I think Michael McDowell should resign from his position as under his tenure killing have reached the levels last seen when the Black & Tans were were committing genocide against the Irish people. Except this time it is Paddy V Paddy and the odd eastern European.

I believe that the Gardai should be armed and it is good to see that this is now happening. We need many many more Gardai and I think that on top of the situation there needs to be at least two more Gardai Training Colleges Built. One Public, one Private, yes netwhizkid the red is advocating Private Enterprise. I reckon that in the region of 10,000 gardai are needed and creating the Gardai Reserve Force was the biggest joke in History.

We need proper judiciary and reform of the legal system, the fact of the matter is that many of these criminals that are walking the streets and gunning down innocent people should have been jailed many years ago or were released early in our revolving doors prison system. We need to double our Prison Capacity and this is another situation where the Private Sector can help, this should not be about political ideology but getting things done asap for the greater good, and any right or left wing politician who argues otherwise is very short-sighted.

As I mentioned earlier many of these criminals should be behind bars long ago only for the jailings of our legal and judicial system. Judges are doing wreck and many seem more concerned about their pensions ala Brian Curtin than actually doing their job and doling out Prison Time. Many of these career criminals began there criminal lives as young children and because of the failings fo the system went onto where we are today. Massive sums of Money should be spent on a Juvenile Rehabilitation System and also make the parents more responsible with heavy fines and prison time if they do not control their delinquent Kids.

I know all of this sounds radical but a radical plan is needed to stop the blood letting, Drugs are the scourge of Society and are the cause of all this Gangland Criminality. Drug Users need help and should get it but equally they should not expect society give a toss and the system should make light prison sentences mandatory for repeat offences of possession, and give the Gardai the powers to the search any person and their property without a search warrant if they don;t have this already. Employers should also be able to do a background search on potential employess to see if they are drug users and make it non-discriminatory if they wish to hire or not.

I really could write loads on this issue but I won't, reading the Sunday World this morning made my blood run cold and thank my stars I am so far away from Dublin. It is my firm belief that The Gardai need more powers not to have there excisting powers taken away as has happened in the wake of the Donegal Incidents and the John Carty case in Abbylara Co. Longford.

Guards are stuck behind desks doing paper work which could be outsourced affectively freeing up Gardai time and manpower. Equally seeing trained Gardai taking the speed limit in 50KMph zones instead of fighting Crime is disgraceful, like how trained must you be to write a speeding ticket and issue a fine, a special Gardai Road Core should be set up with new recruits who would only be like Traffic cops and this would save time in training while freeing up real guards to fight Gangland Criminality.

What are your views on this?

Boston

Backtoblack wrote:

or the murder in the IFSC etc etc?

What murder?

Backtoblack

I agree about McDowell. I don't know how many times this year he has been on tv looking frightfully embarrassed in relation to one scandal or another.

I think it makes more sense too to employ admin staff to do admin work.
A lot of us have to take Confidentiality Agreements at work at any rate, if that is the issue.

gurramok

Armed gardai is not a new thing where i'm from.

As said before, they were out in west dublin during operation Anvil, they even had a checkpoint with guys armed with UZI's standing around a squad car at end of my road, but its over year since that happened as Anvil was axed.

Heard on news that the garda drugs squad has not increased by a single member in 10 years!!

Dave!

markk06 wrote:

Firstly its not the heroine addicts that are shooting people.

Nice reading there :rolleyes: Jesus you even f*cking quoted me but you managed to get it wrong.

I didn't say that addicts are shooting people -- I said they WILL. They're not gonna stop commiting crimes, are they? Do you think they are? No, they'll need to get their money from somewhere. So if they face getting shot for robbing a shop, then they're gonna have to invest in a gun of their own so that (a) they have protection from the police, and (b) they can continue on their merry way funding their addiction.

markk06 wrote:

You say that the criminals will arm themselves better if the Gardai have guns?? The simple fact of the matter is that criminals are arming themselves better.

I didn't say that the gangland criminals are going to arm themselves better. I'm well aware that they're armed already with machine guns, and body armour in some cases.

But by arming the rank-and-file, you're going to force other criminals to arm themselves (eg. drug addicts), while the gangland criminals will continue to have guns. It will only endanger more lives, while it will probably lower the amount of joyriders we have. Who gives a sh*t about joyriders when the bloke who's mugging you could have a handgun rather than a syringe?

markk06 wrote:

Crime in this country is getting much more ruthless.. Take for example the innocent plumber who was killed. These people dont care who they kill so next its going to be a Garda.

The gangland criminals don't care who they kill, correct. They're going out with the intention of shooting someone.
But a drug addict or a career burgular generally wants to get some money and then shoot up or whatever. They don't go out to kill people. By putting a gun in their hand, you're going to increase the chance of them getting a fright and shooting whoever's in the house, or if a Garda sees them they're going to try be quicker on the draw, and then more people get killed.

markk06 wrote:

So do you not think its better to protect our police force, the people who have defended our state for years against some of the most advanced criminal elements in the world, or let them try stop this problem with no armed assistance.

If I thought giving the Gardaí guns would protect them then I'd be for it. But I'd be more inclined to think that giving them guns would (a) make firearms more prevalent and acceptable in society, (b) make society more dangerous, and (c) put guns in the hands of those who don't necessarily want one.

More guns aren't the solution IMO. I'm not the Minister for Justice so it's not my job to suggest an alternative.

markk06 wrote:

Get real

Ahh we've got a genius here...:rolleyes:

Backtoblack

LiouVille wrote:

What murder?

www.rte.ie/news
www.skynews.com
www.rueters.co.uk

or

www.google.ie

monument

Backtoblack wrote:

Where do you live? I don't feel safe walking around in Dublin alone at night. Haven't you heard about the serial killer over the weekend in England or the murder in the IFSC etc etc? Over halloween, I passed a burnt out car near the IFSC at 7am... still burning out. Relatively harmless might be a bit tame to describe a lot of what's being broadcasted on the 9am news every night... ~Thats my opinion anyway. Maybe you think it could be a lot worse.. like in parts of Africa maybe is it??

Maybe it isn’t safe around Dublin at night. But your examples are both of **targeted** groups which I’ll presume you don’t belong in.

The example relating to England is a serial killer who is only targeting prostitutes. As I’ve said on the other thread, the killing at the IFSC was a hit on a known gangland figure.

Was anybody harmed in connection with the burnt-out car?

Really, you’re getting carried away with the media’s hype, while you would be far better off taking calm steps to improve your own personal safety then worrying about gangland crime and other isolated events.

I’m not trying to talk down to you here but much of it is common sense, but often ignored. Stuff like…

• Know where you’re going in advance
• Be aware of your surroundings
• This goes double for using ATMs, look around it first and while in the line etc
• Look confident and stay calm, but don’t be arrogant – looking around is better then being in bull-headed tunnel vision
• Keep to busy and lighted streets and don’t take shortcuts down dark streets
• Don’t stare up at stupid Luas displays saying ‘beware of pick pocks’ because that’s just the kind if distraction that helps them
• For the bus/luas/dart having the correct change or a weekly/monthly tickets means you’re messing around less and you’re not distracted by looking for change
• Don’t unnecessarily have your phone/mp3 player/camera/etc on show
• Keep valuables out of loose coat pockets
• Replace trademark white Ipod earphones
• Think if you would be safer without earphones or just put one in one ear so you can still hear around you
• If you’re going to walk don’t wear shoes you can’t walk well in, bring a change if you have to
• Try to have at least one hand/arm free at all times
• When a person approaches you be aware of them and keep eye contact, keep a hand free, don’t look away if asked about a timetable or for directions, just tell them how to find it them selves
• After dark, keep away from obstructions that someone could hide behind, always be aware of your surroundings.
• Always stay near the curb.
• If someone in a vehicle stops and asks for directions, answer from a distance. Do not approach the vehicle.
• If followed, go immediately to an area with lights and people. If needed, turn around and walk in the opposite direction, your follower will also have to reverse direction.
• Do not display cash openly, especially when leaving an ATM machine

Silly me decide to google after I had most of the above written out, here’s some links…

http://www.co.whatcom.wa.us/sheriff/crimeprev/personal.jsp
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/holtips.htm
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/personalsafety.htm

Backtoblack

monument wrote:

Maybe it isn’t safe around Dublin at night. But your examples are both of **targeted** groups which I’ll presume you don’t belong in.

The example relating to England is a serial killer who is only targeting prostitutes. As I’ve said on the other thread, the person killing at the IFSC was a hit on a known gangland figure.

Was anybody harmed in connection with the burnt-out car?

Really, you’re getting carried away with the media’s hype, while you would be far better off taking calm steps to improve your own personal safety then worrying about gangland crime and other isolated events.

I’m not trying to talk down to you here but much of it is common sense, but often ignored. Stuff like…

• Know where you’re going in advance
• Be aware of your surroundings
• This goes double for using ATMs, look around it first and while in the line etc
• Look confident and stay calm, but don’t be arrogant – looking around is better then being in bull-headed tunnel vision
• Keep to busy and lighted streets and don’t take shortcuts down dark streets
• Don’t stare up at stupid Luas displays saying ‘beware of pick pocks’ because that’s just the kind if distraction that helps them
• For the bus/luas/dart having the correct change or a weekly/monthly tickets means you’re messing around less and you’re not distracted by looking for change
• Don’t unnecessarily have your phone/mp3 player/camera/etc on show
• Keep valuables out of loose coat pockets
• Replace trademark white Ipod earphones
• Think if you would be safer without earphones or just put one in one ear so you can still hear around you
• If you’re going to walk don’t wear shoes you can’t walk well in, bring a change if you have to
• Try to have at least one hand/arm free at all times
• When a person approaches you be aware of them and keep eye contact, keep a hand free, don’t look away if asked about a timetable or for directions, just tell them how to find it them selves
• After dark, keep away from obstructions that someone could hide behind, always be aware of your surroundings.
• Always stay near the curb.
• If someone in a vehicle stops and asks for directions, answer from a distance. Do not approach the vehicle.
• If followed, go immediately to an area with lights and people. If needed, turn around and walk in the opposite direction, your follower will also have to reverse direction.
• Do not display cash openly, especially when leaving an ATM machine

Silly me, decide to google after I had most of the above written out, here’s some links…

http://www.co.whatcom.wa.us/sheriff/crimeprev/personal.jsp
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/holtips.htm
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/personalsafety.htm

Ah thanks!

I know all that really though, not being at all ungrateful..
Rape/muggings happen though too etc. You can't say really that it's only hookers and druggies (&company) getting injured and so on.
And no thankfully i fall into neither of the two categories!

Time Magazine

julep wrote:

I live in Leixlip. Not the friendliest of places on a Saturday night, but I still confidently stride through the main street with my bag of chips and battered sausage from sammy's.

julep: soon to be mod of Long-Term Illness.

Battered sausages from Sammy's...

monument

Backtoblack wrote:

Ah thanks!

I know all that really though, not being at all ungrateful..
Rape/muggings happen though too etc. You can't say really that it's only hookers and druggies (&company) getting injured and so on.
And no thankfully i fall into neither of the two categories!

“Rape/muggings happen though too etc” - I know they do - that's what the above advice is aimed to avoid.

For those of you in gangs out there, I’d recommend a bullet proof vest, an MP5, and a maybe think about a change of profession.

Boston

Backtoblack wrote:

www.rte.ie/news
www.skynews.com
www.rueters.co.uk

or

www.google.ie

Their not links to any information about killings in the IFSC. You're a liar. You see, I think i know the murder you're talking about(firday night before last), it happened close to where I live in the northStrand, which is by no means the IFSC.

markk06

DaveMcG wrote:

Nice reading there :rolleyes: Jesus you even f*cking quoted me but you managed to get it wrong.

I didn't say that addicts are shooting people -- I said they WILL. They're not gonna stop commiting crimes, are they? Do you think they are? No, they'll need to get their money from somewhere. So if they face getting shot for robbing a shop, then they're gonna have to invest in a gun of their own so that (a) they have protection from the police, and (b) they can continue on their merry way funding their addiction.



I didn't say that the gangland criminals are going to arm themselves better. I'm well aware that they're armed already with machine guns, and body armour in some cases.

But by arming the rank-and-file, you're going to force other criminals to arm themselves (eg. drug addicts), while the gangland criminals will continue to have guns. It will only endanger more lives, while it will probably lower the amount of joyriders we have. Who gives a sh*t about joyriders when the bloke who's mugging you could have a handgun rather than a syringe?



The gangland criminals don't care who they kill, correct. They're going out with the intention of shooting someone.
But a drug addict or a career burgular generally wants to get some money and then shoot up or whatever. They don't go out to kill people. By putting a gun in their hand, you're going to increase the chance of them getting a fright and shooting whoever's in the house, or if a Garda sees them they're going to try be quicker on the draw, and then more people get killed.



If I thought giving the Gardaí guns would protect them then I'd be for it. But I'd be more inclined to think that giving them guns would (a) make firearms more prevalent and acceptable in society, (b) make society more dangerous, and (c) put guns in the hands of those who don't necessarily want one.

More guns aren't the solution IMO. I'm not the Minister for Justice so it's not my job to suggest an alternative.



Ahh we've got a genius here...:rolleyes:

Its quite easy for you to say, whilst sitting reading your Sunday World or posts on Boards about the situation, that the Rank and File Gardai should not be armed. Its also possible that this may be true, however when you refer back to the subject of the discussion you will see that it is not on whether all Gardai should be armed but is regarding the fact that there will be Armed Patrols on the street in order to deal with the rise in organised crime. The stance i am coming from is that we need more of these patrols and units set up to quash the serious rise in violent criminal activity in our capital.

The people dealing with this are in organised crime units and in some cases members of the ERU. If you look back to my previous posts you will see that i pointed this out. Unfortunately the war on crime cannot be won unless the Gardai with the help of government and the judiciary come down hard on these career criminals and guns for hire and to do this it is necessary to give them the firepower they need. Try imagine you are a detective, would you not rather have a gun at your side to protect you if people similar to "Marlo" Hyland come driving by rather than face the prospect of being gunned down
, defenceless in cold blood...

CLADA

The prospect of arming the gardai across the force is not being considered. Armed Gardai have always patrolled the streets of Dublin, any unmarked car with plain clothes officers is an armed patrol. I think the headlines are a bit misleading and as usual are to keep the crime correspondents columns full of the usual "armed gardai patrol ...", "armed ring of steel ..." etc...
I think a more accurate headline would be " Increased armed patrols in Dublin to support unarmed Gardai..."

Backtoblack

monument wrote:

“Rape/muggings happen though too etc” - I know they do - that's what the above advice is aimed to avoid.

For those of you in gangs out there, I’d recommend a bullet proof vest, an MP5, and a maybe think about a change of profession.

After that guy was shot in the IFSC, I phoned my dad to ask him for a bullet proof vest for xmas coz I've moved from the sticks to Dubwarlin. He has said that I would also need an Uzi, so i think i'm getting both!

Thanks again for the advice. My dad is not really getting me armour/guns.
Just in case anyone takes me seriously. Just joking.

Backtoblack

LiouVille wrote:

Their not links to any information about killings in the IFSC. You're a liar. You see, I think i know the murder you're talking about(firday night before last), it happened close to where I live in the northStrand, which is by no means the IFSC.

No I'm talking about the one on Wednesday night (.. is there a need to confirm that there is an actual increase in crime?..) Here's the link for ya!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1214/shooting.html

markk06

CLADA wrote:

I think the headlines are a bit misleading and as usual are to keep the crime correspondents columns full of the usual "armed gardai patrol ...", "armed ring of steel ..." etc...

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there CLADA...

Gardai with automatic weapons isnt a new thing either, apparently this was commonplace back in the Eighties, to have detectives with UZIs due to the high amount of bank raids and kidnappings by the provos

punchdrunk

seen two of these coppers getting out of a big nissan 4x4 tonight at store street,they had the bulletproof vests on and all the gear
i was glad to see them

the_syco

julep wrote:

I live in Leixlip. Not the friendliest of places on a Saturday night, but I still confidently stride through the main street with my bag of chips and battered sausage from sammy's.

Thanks to the cops, that is. Before the cop station was there, there'd be fights on Thursday/Friday/Saturday, after the nightclub closed. And the cops from Lucan either wouldn't come, or take 30 minutes to get to Leixlip. Never mind the fights at the Hitchin Post, or Rockafella's. The presence of the cops calmed them alot.

Likewise for Gardai with SMG's. Half the use of them is the image. You'll think twice about doing something illegal if there's a cop nearby, and twice so when the cop is armed.

markk06 wrote:

Gardai with automatic weapons isnt a new thing either, apparently this was commonplace back in the Eighties, to have detectives with UZIs due to the high amount of bank raids and kidnappings by the provos

The provos raided banks, the Gardai go around with Uzi's. The scum hit the post-offices, the Gardai get SMG's. I call it moving with the times, tbh.

Alkers

Why Uzi's? I can't think of a worse weapon for them to have...

markk06

Simona1986 wrote:

Why Uzi's? I can't think of a worse weapon for them to have...

And what is your weapon of choice???