Retired at 30

Zascar

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

stepbar

Zascar wrote:

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

If thats a dig at me then fair enough, I'm well able to take it. In fairness Zascar, if you come looking for advice here you should at least expect to have **** thrown at you. Personally I think Digi and Smemon are two nieve chaps. One is sticking every penny he's got into shares and has a very narrow view of how to invest; whilst the other is buying up / speculating in websites (much like the way ur man O'Gara on Dartmouth Sq speculates in the Ground Rents ) and trying to get huge amounts of traffic through them in the hope of selling them on for big profit / pulling in ad revenue from Google. And neither has a background in their chosen fields (Okay okay, not the be all and end all but it would help big time). Now you COULD'NT class this as being entraprenural. No way. What ever about setting up a proper business but not this sort of craic.

But look, good look to them both but boy does it make me frown.

Zascar

I've no problem with offering constructive criticism or pointing out failings etc, but it was the way you said that was just incredible dismissive and generally condisending, I don't think there was any reason for your 'tone'. Have a read again over your posts - I really don't think they deserved it.

stepbar

Well im sorry but that the way I am. I might not be so dismissive if they actually knew what they were talking about, had a bit of working experience in their fields and were able to properly justify the decisions / risks they are taking. Sometimes a sharp dose of reality is needed. In fairness, if it was that easy to make money we would be all doing it. Everyday at work, I see some great businesses that are not even turning a profit. Fundamentally the idea is rock solid but however the execution is not so good. My point is that its so black and white at the end of the day.

el diablo

Zascar wrote:

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

nice post there and I mostly agree. but I'm really just here to suscribe to this thread. it's interesting....;)

LundiMardi

OP, it's a very idealistic attitude you have.... but, it will most likely have changed withing a year or two. When you get a girlfriend, when you get a car etc... As you get old your outgoings will grow, it's not really something you can control.

smemon

LundiMardi wrote:

OP, it's a very idealistic attitude you have.... but, it will most likely have changed withing a year or two. When you get a girlfriend, when you get a car etc... As you get old your outgoings will grow, it's not really something you can control.

^^good point. I have both and both are both are very expensive to (a) keep (b) maintain

@ Zascar, i love those posts... the one's that spur you on, add a little spring in your step.... had it not been for posts like that and views like that, i wouldn't be taking risks or trying my hand at this.

If the internet was irish only, i wouldn't be interested in owning websites, that's a fact. Look at the way Alex Tew gets bashed yet he's a millionaire... another project on the way from him and it's getting bashed yet it's made him over $100,000.

I personally take my hat off to him, i'm of the American viewpoint where you stand back and admire an idea, then try to better it yourself. Rather than the Irish viewpoint of criticizing it and trying to take it down.

i've site i bought for $500, at the time of buying there were 3 other offers for $1000 but due to pressure on the buyer, he couldn't wait a few days and had to accept my bid.

so immediately i was sitting on a 100% return on investment. I could have sold it and made a 100% return on invesment within a few days. Now, i don't have a degree in business or 30 years experience in investing, but it doesn't take a genius to work out i got a good deal

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

stepbar

smemon wrote:

^^good point. I have both and both are both are very expensive to (a) keep (b) maintain

@ Zascar, i love those posts... the one's that spur you on, add a little spring in your step.... had it not been for posts like that and views like that, i wouldn't be taking risks or trying my hand at this.

If the internet was irish only, i wouldn't be interested in owning websites, that's a fact. Look at the way Alex Tew gets bashed yet he's a millionaire... another project on the way from him and it's getting bashed yet it's made him over $100,000.

I personally take my hat off to him, i'm of the American viewpoint where you stand back and admire an idea, then try to better it yourself. Rather than the Irish viewpoint of criticizing it and trying to take it down.

i've site i bought for $500, at the time of buying there were 3 other offers for $1000 but due to pressure on the buyer, he couldn't wait a few days and had to accept my bid.

so immediately i was sitting on a 100% return on investment. I could have sold it and made a 100% return on invesment within a few days. Now, i don't have a degree in business or 30 years experience in investing, but it doesn't take a genius to work out i got a good deal

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

I have respect for the likes of Sean Quinn who put everything on the line, created employment for thousands of people at a time where the amount of jobs available were as scarse as the teeth on a hen. He's now a billionaire. I have respect for Bill Cullen who had it harder than most coming from Summerhill (one of the most deprived places in Dublin) and nearly lost his shirt plenty of times. I have respect for Sean Mulryan who remortgaged his house to start Ballymore Properties in 1982, when the country was on its knees. These guys are REAL entrapreneurs and took REAL risks when no one else would give them the time of day. There is ZERO risk with what you are at. Infact you could continue to go ahead and develop sites for the next 5 years and still have ZERO risk. Its a form of bastardised "stock" trading where the "stock" is websites.

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

Neither do I but if you are going to talk about real entrapreneurship then this is not it. Sean Quinn left school at 14. However he didnt get to where he got to with out a bit knowledge gained from experience built up over the years and making the odd mistakes here and there. Why dont you keep pursuing a career retailing? Open up a shop? Open up 10 of them whatever you like. Because this internet stuff wont keep you in a job, hobby maybe, extra income maybe. Alex Tew may have made a million but you only have to take a look at the website and look at the sort of trash ads on it for god knows what. I couldnt have respect for that carry on. There was zero risk with what he done as well. Good luck to you but I dont buy into it at all.

You might want to have a look at this thread on "See The CV" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054984827&referrerid=&highlight=the%20cv
People slaughered it including myself. In fact this company featured in the Sunday Business Post, hard to believe I know.

damnyanks

You can make a living off websites easily. You neet to put a lot of time and effort into it. You won't do well out of it with google ad's unless you have some seriously high traffic coming to the site or are running some form of fraud.

I used to be mad for the ol websites knew pletny of people making money out of it. I don't see anything in smemon's tag to show he is making serious money but whats the harm in a little fun and trying to make serious money.

As far as alex tew, he got lucky. So what about the ad's on it, he doesnt care. He was a bum student who wanted 1mill. He got it, thats a successful undertaking. He met all objectives!

It's spawned idiots who think it will work for them. The novelty value is gone get over it

Digi_Tilmitt

Zascar, thanks for the advice. It would be nice for me to find a job that was at least somewhat enjoyable and that pays alot, but at least for the moment I don't think I'd be able to. Maybe as I get older and develop more intangible stuff like people skills and just general competance with responsibility I might be able to get something. But for now I'll continue the slow relentless march towards freedom with my part time job.

It's great also to hear some up beat encouragement from someone, I've heard "it can't be done" and "it can be done but not by you" so much that some doubt even kicked in, but a post like yours is enough to keep me inspired. I agree entirely with your commentary on the rain-on-the-parade posters. I think jealousy and personal regrets may be playing a part in some of the posts...

As for stepbar, I don't understand why you are so hostile to our budding enthusiasm. Again, maybe you were once like us but it blew up in your face, or maybe you just love to knock people down. Or maybe even you're just trying to get some sense into us. Still you could work a bit on making your posts less personal-attacks.

As regards my investment doings...I'm still on emergency tax. If I can get the manager of the shop I work at to sort out my tax for next pay then I'll be getting a pay for around 1800E. I've another 1900 in the bank, so that should make a nice transfer over to my stock account. At the moment I'm thinking I'll use 2500 to buy shares in the next undervalued thing I can find, and use the 1200 left over to buy options. I'll probably mess that up but I figure the best way to learn is (after reading about it and doing all the background etc, which I have) to jump in and see how I can work it.

smemon, it seems we are similar although taking different approaches to our goal. I think people should lean to whatever their strengths are, and it appears you seem to have an aptitude for website related stuff. Good luck! Hopefully we'll both make it good!

chump

Best of luck to you pal.

smemon

damnyanks wrote:

I don't see anything in smemon's tag to show he is making serious money but whats the harm in a little fun and trying to make serious money.

none whatsoever you're quite right, i've a very low traffic, low income network of sites. atm.

however they will have pulled in my first adsense cheque by the end of the month

i can't live off $100 every 6 months though

stepbar wrote:

Alex Tew may have made a million.... I couldnt have respect for that carry on.

well, i think i'd take $1m and have no respect from you, rather than make $0 and have your utmost respect

stepbar wrote:

Why dont you keep pursuing a career retailing? Open up a shop? Open up 10 of them whatever you like.

i've no interest in retail. Therefore i've no drive, no passion, no enthusiam to keep going when times get tough. With the internet, it's a different story. I know how it works, what people want, what makes money, what gets traffic, what drives traffic away...

the problem i have is that i can't custom sites so i have to pay to make a decent site.

granted, i haven't applied any of that to a decent website yet, but don't worry, my big projects are coming soon. My current sites are small fish and i realise/accept that. I'm by no means trying to live off my current sites

stepbar wrote:

this internet stuff wont keep you in a job

that's where i'll have to prove you wrong so

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

Good luck! Hopefully we'll both make it good!

hopefully... as regards 'risk', i think it's more about sacrifice... nowadays, we all have money. It's not the the 70's, 80's where every penny counted, we can afford to gamble with a bit of cash.

Unfortunately, guys our age 'invest' in a social life (drink, cars, girls etc...). We are, by choice, curtailing that or sacrificing it in the hope we'll be rewarded down the line whilst the rest live a life of 9-5 work.

as they say, bravery is rewarded

PH4T

stepbar wrote:

These guys are REAL entrapreneurs and took REAL risks when no one else would give them the time of day. There is ZERO risk with what you are at. Infact you could continue to go ahead and develop sites for the next 5 years and still have ZERO risk. Its a form of bastardised "stock" trading where the "stock" is websites.

Zero risk? That's not true.

What he's doing involves risk as does stock trading.

stepbar

PH4T wrote:

Zero risk? That's not true.

What he's doing involves risk as does stock trading.

Show me the risk. As far as I am aware both still have jobs, still have an income coming in. Have no borrowings to repay. As best risk is minimal.

smemon

stepbar wrote:

Show me the risk. As far as I am aware both still have jobs, still have an income coming in. Have no borrowings to repay. As best risk is minimal.

so you're saying in order to become an entrepreneur, i need to sell my car, move out on to the streets, take out loans all over the place and plough it into my dreams???

this is the 21st century, we live in one of the richest countries in the world... i'm 'risking' all i can afford to.

i have a car, thats it. The rest either goes into savings (with a view to spending it on projects later) or into these current projects.

Banks are practically throwing at me, being 19 and working part-time in retail :rolleyes: I'm investing time more so than anything else in this... it's a full time job. Literally, any free time i have is spent working on the internet, or studying how websites work.

I reckon i spend about 5 hours a day EVERY day AT LEAST, on the internet, along with some 39hour weeks at my day job. My brain can't stop thinking... i have to be thinking, doing something... every idea i come up with is typed up in notepad and stored on my hard-drive..

I'm addicted to this stuff... i can't get enough of it i will stop at nothing to earn a healthy living from it...

Over the next few months, i expect to see some of my ideas take off. I'm a 10% stakeholder in some very promising websites yet to be launched.

optiplexgx270

And do you give your parents anything for your keep? Poor feckers cant get rid of you.

stepbar

smemon wrote:

so you're saying in order to become an entrepreneur, i need to sell my car, move out on to the streets, take out loans all over the place and plough it into my dreams???

If needs be, yes. If you believe enough in your business then yes. However I doubt you would need to move out on the streets.

smemon wrote:

i'm 'risking' all i can afford to.

Well there you go, I rest my case. You're not really risking anything, all you are doing is gambling the bit of money you can afford to gamble. Whilst other lads spend their spare money on cars / women / sh1te, you spend it on websites. Theres no risk to that in fairness. Now, gambling other peoples money is another thing entirely.......

smemon

And do you give your parents anything for your keep?

yes, €50/week, plus loan of my car once in a while.

all you are doing is gambling the bit of money you can afford to gamble.

i'm gambling EVERYTHING i can afford to. I'm working to gamble

The risk is in the time invested... im effectively paying to work a full-time job, whilst getting paid for a part time one.

So i'm putting in 40hrs a week, paying for projects etc... which means i'm currently running at a loss on the internet. About $1400 invested, with $100 return. (plus 'stock' obviously).

For a 19 year old, that's a pretty big risk. $1400 is a lot of money to a teenager. About 5/6 weeks wages for me

Like i've said i have a car, long term gf etc... so it's not exactly loose change either.

By June, i'll have ploughed another $2k into websites, which is starting to get pretty serious, and i'd consider that a fairly big risk, considering my age.

I can't afford to lose all of that money, so therefore it is a risk.

Now, gambling other peoples money is another thing entirely.......

yes, but you have to understand i can't get other people's money at 19 with a part time job. I do have a credit card all right, but use it as a debit card and transfer funds immediately after buying something via e-banking.

Sonderval

Fair play to those who are actively trying to become millionaires via shares, investments, etc. I'm in the same boat - I plan to retire when I hit 40, unless I am in a supremely interesting job

Its interesting to note that when I say this to people, and when I generally talk about investments, people who dont invest tend to get a bit annoyed or talk down my plans. People see investing as some obscure one in a million lotto, when in fact I find it quite easy to play the markets. I actively began 6 months ago and I am already 35% up on my initial investment (locked in profits). I plan to double what I have within the next year. If I continue to make at least 30% profit each year and re-invest these profits, I will easily break a million within 20 years. I anticipate reaching that target sooner though

It seems many lack the capacity to dream and take real balls to the wall risks to achieve said dreams - I find that quite disheartening. I understand that people can be afraid to take risks with money, but there is no pockets in your coffin!

Lastly, Alexander the Great pointed out that "fortune favours the bold". Truer words have not been spoken, IMO.

PH4T

Sonderval wrote:

I actively began 6 months ago and I am already 35% up on my initial investment (locked in profits). I plan to double what I have within the next year. If I continue to make at least 30% profit each year and re-invest these profits, I will easily break a million within 20 years. I anticipate reaching that target sooner though

Lastly, Alexander the Great pointed out that "fortune favours the bold". Truer words have not been spoken, IMO.

30% profit a year!

LOL well if the bull markets of recent years continue for the next 20 years then I see no hole in ur plan.

But what about years where you lose 30%?

Sonderval

Ever heard of shorting the market? Or option calls? Plenty of ways to make money if your on the ball and not risk-averse.

EDIT: This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly think I plan for a 20 year bull run? Does Wall St., the worlds foremost capital generating machine, suddenly pack up shop when the bears are in town? Thats not how it works.

Plissken1

smemon wrote:

this is the 21st century, we live in one of the richest countries in the world... i'm 'risking' all i can afford to.

I am afraid we are only really rich on paper, our governments insistance on ignoring long term investments, like infrastructure, and manufacturing,while focusing totally on short-term gains, such as, property and the financial services sector, will soon leave our asses swinging in the wind. Still, look on the bright side, there will be bargains a plenty when it all goes tits up.

PH4T

Sonderval wrote:

Ever heard of shorting the market? Or option calls? Plenty of ways to make money if your on the ball and not risk-averse.

My point is that it is easy to make money in a bull market like last year. Shorting the market is all well and good but how will you know when to do it? More than likely you won't. Most professional active fund managers get it wrong. 30% returns every year on an absolute basis are pretty unrealistic. 10% and you'd be doing well.

PH4T

Plissken1 wrote:

I am afraid we are only really rich on paper, our governments insistance on ignoring long term investments, like infrastructure, and manufacturing,while focusing totally on short-term gains, such as, property and the financial services sector, will soon leave our asses swinging in the wind. Still, look on the bright side, there will be bargains a plenty when it all goes tits up.

You may be right on the property front but manufacturing has no future in Ireland whereas the Financial Services industry is one with hugh growth potential. Look at the contribution the City of London makes to the UK economy.

damnyanks

Sonderval wrote:

Ever heard of shorting the market? Or option calls? Plenty of ways to make money if your on the ball and not risk-averse.

EDIT: This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly think I plan for a 20 year bull run? Does Wall St., the worlds foremost capital generating machine, suddenly pack up shop when the bears are in town? Thats not how it works.

That really doesn't help you. When it goes wrong (It will at some point). Your exposure is unlimited. So thats not your answer.

hmmm

Not even Warren Buffet can generate 30% a year. Let's talk realism. Historically the US market has returned about 10.5%, but that includes periods of high inflation, post war boom etc. So let's take a long run average of say 8%. Take 2% inflation off of that and 1% fees, 5% return per annum.

It's been shown, over and over and over again that the vast majority of investors will not beat the market return. From my point of view, I plug 5% per annum return into my spreadsheet and see how much I have to save to reach my goal.

PDelux

It's been shown, over and over and over again that the vast majority of investors will not beat the market return.

That's true actually.... but its fun trying:)
(I think its 70-80%!)

damnyanks

Anything is possible. You can make a 30% return on your money easy if you are very aggresive and have a lot to invest.

A lot of people have seriosuly good knowledge about industries that no one can top.

Digi_Tilmitt

Just got another wire transfer of funds into my account...another step closer to retirement!

I agree we (the young guys investing agressively) are probably really naive about our ability to get brilliant returns, but i still think it's really worth a go. Also just because some of you older guys couldn't do it or lacked the commitment doesn't mean you should begrudge us!

Anyway....I was so excited tonight when my funds appeared in my account...I ran around the kitchen shouting about how I was going to "dominate the market!" and that "the world will be mine!". This stuff is fun if nothing else, at least until it all blows up in my face. Unfortunately I don't see anything that I think is really undervalued at the moment...a few thigns that I was watching and hoping for further declines in went up a bit lately so it looks like I might be sitting on the fence for a little bit.

Sonderval

It is fun if nothing else, and I dont think 30% is an unreachable target. However that is my business and my opinion.

I think alot of people seem to fail a person before they try. To quote Will Smith: "You got a dream, you gotta protect it. People can't do something themselves, they wanna tell you that you can't do it. You want something? Go get it. Period"

That really doesn't help you. When it goes wrong (It will at some point). Your exposure is unlimited. So thats not your answer.

They are not the only options - I merely pointed at them as ways to make money off a weak market.

Maybe when I reach my first year of trading in August I'll post my results and let people see my methodology (unless thats breaking some charter rules).