Retired at 30

Digi_Tilmitt

I'm 19 and currently in college. I live at home. I work part time with two jobs, one pays about 700 a month, the other 200. I spend the 200 on stuff that I want/need and invest the entire 700 in shares. I do this by wire transferring from my bank account (in 2500 euro lumps) to an american online stock broker account where it is converted to dollars and I can buy american shares with. Currently I have only done one wire transfer, as I only started this in August, but the shares I bought have already increased alot...and I even got a $18 dividend credited to my account! Wow!

My plan is through relatively frugal living and wise investments, to hit one million by the time I am 30. I will then retire and live off the returns from my one million (by buying stocks with high dividend yields probably), in Japan!

That makes my life sound really boring...but trust me it isn't! I like stuff too and have my own deeply important dreams and things I want to and will do and see! But anyway, I was just wondering is anyone else trying anything even vaguely similar to this? Does anyone else think they can escape a life of toil in the fires of industry by channeling the majority of their income into investments? Even if you're not trying anything half as "extreme" I'd love to hear about it. I'd like some feedback too as to what you think of the whole thing, I imagine most people would think it's mad and whatever, but still it's interesting to see what others think.

DublinEvents

'Tis a risky thing you are doing there. I mean, sure you are getting dividends right now but what happens if you invest thousands later and suddenly the stock prices go down? What will you do then? You can't hope for the sun to always shine on you, you know.

Gurgle

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

My plan is through relatively frugal living and wise investments, to hit one million by the time I am 30. I will then retire and live off the returns from my one million (by buying stocks with high dividend yields probably), in Japan!

Best of luck with the whole plan.

Remember to spread your investments; a million spread wisely should see you set up for life. Put a good chunk of it in a guaranteed return account, another chunk in something like gold or copper. Today's high dividend shares could be tomorrow's Enron so don't put all your eggs in one basket or even one economy.

Might be wise to take a step back from Japan - Brazil, China and Russia are likely to be economies with major growth in the next 10 to 30 years.

Tazz T

A million would get you a house and a few pints with the change now. In ten years time, in Japan, it'll get you very little. What you're doing is very wise but I wouldn't expect to retire by 30. If it was that easy we'd all be doing it. I've been a regular investor for over 15 years and have yet to make my first 100,000. They don't have that 'shares can go up as well as down' in the small print for no reason. As anyone who was investing during the crash of 2000-2002 will testify. I personally lost 50% of all my investments and only recovered this year.

Try setting more modest goals first. My first goal was to use investments to get a deposit for my first house. That took a few years alone. Unless you plan staying at home for the next 10 years, that's something you'll have to consider.

My goal now is to get the money for a holiday home. I'm currently about halfway there. Hopefully in the next two years.

Then I'll consider investing for an early retirement.

hmmm

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

That makes my life sound really boring...but trust me it isn't! I like stuff too and have my own deeply important dreams and things I want to and will do and see! But anyway, I was just wondering is anyone else trying anything even vaguely similar to this? Does anyone else think they can escape a life of toil in the fires of industry by channeling the majority of their income into investments? Even if you're not trying anything half as "extreme" I'd love to hear about it. I'd like some feedback too as to what you think of the whole thing, I imagine most people would think it's mad and whatever, but still it's interesting to see what others think.

I'm doing somewhat similar, but over 20/25 years and enjoying my life on the way Have a read through the fool.com website for their retire early advice. 30 sounds very ambitious, but I think retirement on your level of saving at 40 is possible. Things happen too and priorities change, so I wouldn't be putting my life on hold to save (you might meet a nice girl, buy a house and have puppies) - but you can be both a good saver and enjoy life.

At this stage you should read read read, while you've little to lose if you make a mistake. I've found over the years that it is more important to avoid stupid losses investing than it is to find "the next big thing". In fact, the next big thing is often the wrong place to invest. I'd recommend you buy Malkiel's "Random walk down Wall Street" for some good advice. You're getting excited when you see your investments increase in value which is a normal reaction - but you should really be getting annoyed Most important thing I ever learned - the way small investors invest is completely the wrong way around. If you wanted to buy a house as an investment and the price of it kept going up, would you be happy to pay the higher price? Or would you prefer it fell and you could buy it cheaper? Same with shares - you should be happy to see share prices fall because you can buy more shares cheaper. Right now you've only experienced your investments going up in value, at times (maybe lasting years) they will go down in value. If you have read what the "greats" of investing have written you will be happy to accept this without getting depressed and knocked off track.

The rough rule of thumb quoted for withdrawing from your investments is no more than 4% a year. So with 1 million, that would give you 40k a year before CGT & Income tax etc. Is that enough for you to live on for 50 years?

The most important thing appears to be building a portfolio with an appropriate risk level. At your age, you could afford to put money into high risk investments that hold out the likelihood of high returns, because it the investments tank in value you have the ability to generate income to start again. As you get older and your working lifetime shortens, you will want to progressively reduce the risk of your portfolio.

So e.g. right now your portfolio could be a high risk portfolio looking something like this:
40% Stock market fund
30% Small caps value
20% Emerging markets
10% Technology/Biotech/Nanotech/Good knows what

along with a 6 month cash reserve. In that portfolio, your investment value could go down by 30% in a year - would you be able to deal with that mentally?

As you approach your saving goal, you'll want to rebalance, reduce risk and lock in your gains, so your portfolio might eventually look like
50% Cash/Bonds
40% General market fund
10% Small caps

One of the problems is that the stock market has underperformed for 10 year periods at a time, and if the next 10 years is one of those periods you won't make your investment goals. So it's a worthy goal to hope that with average stock market performance you can meet the goals, but I'd still ensure that your career choices are solid and can continue to provide you income into the future.

Digi_Tilmitt

I don't actually plan on investing in Japan, just living there. Didn't really make that clear.

Tis a risky thing you are doing there. I mean, sure you are getting dividends right now but what happens if you invest thousands later and suddenly the stock prices go down? What will you do then? You can't hope for the sun to always shine on you, you know.

Everything I invest I can afford to lose. Most people come out of college in debt or with nothing in their account. I'd be a fool if I believed everything I touch will turn to gold, but I do believe I have the right mindset to pick on the whole very sound investments.

If it was that easy we'd all be doing it.

Abstaining from spending 70% of your income isn't easy, but it's what I'm doing. Most people could invest alot more than I am with a concerted effort, but they chose to spend it instead. And by doing so they condemn themselves to have to work decades longer. Aswell I think the problem with most people is that they make such half assed efforts and then freak out the second something drops. You have to throw everything you have at it and keep a level head through the bad times. Anyone can make it if they save hard, have a really strong interest in investing and keep their head screwed on when things go against them.

A million would get you a house and a few pints with the change now. In ten years time, in Japan, it'll get you very little. What you're doing is very wise but I wouldn't expect to retire by 30. If it was that easy we'd all be doing it. I've been a regular investor for over 15 years and have yet to make my first 100,000. They don't have that 'shares can go up as well as down' in the small print for no reason. As anyone who was investing during the crash of 2000-2002 will testify. I personally lost 50% of all my investments and only recovered this year.

I hadn't really thought about having to get a house, that's a good point. ....I'll just have to save even harder!

Digi_Tilmitt

At this stage you should read read read, while you've little to lose if you make a mistake. I've found over the years that it is more important to avoid stupid losses investing than it is to find "the next big thing". In fact, the next big thing is often the wrong place to invest. I'd recommend you buy Malkiel's "Random walk down Wall Street" for some good advice. You're getting excited when you see your investments increase in value which is a normal reaction - but you should really be getting annoyed Most important thing I ever learned - the way small investors invest is completely the wrong way around. If you wanted to buy a house as an investment and the price of it kept going up, would you be happy to pay the higher price? Or would you prefer it fell and you could buy it cheaper? Same with shares - you should be happy to see share prices fall because you can buy more shares cheaper. Right now you've only experienced your investments going up in value, at times (maybe lasting years) they will go down in value. If you have read what the "greats" of investing have written you will be happy to accept this without getting depressed and knocked off track.

Yes I have read "A random walk down wall street", I thought it was brilliant. Though I completely disagree with the efficient market hypothesis. I consider myself most definitely a fundamental analyst, and think the market is often woefully inefficient in under and over pricing various shares.

The rough rule of thumb quoted for withdrawing from your investments is no more than 4% a year. So with 1 million, that would give you 40k a year before CGT & Income tax etc. Is that enough for you to live on for 50 years?

I have a plan to avoid paying tax (GASP ILLEGAL!!!)...but yeah I guess 40,000 would quickly be eroded by inflation through the years. But I really believe that it's absolute childs play to get a 10% return each year, so even if I spend 40,000, the remaining 60,000 would get added to my capital.

So e.g. right now your portfolio could be a high risk portfolio looking something like this:
40% Stock market fund
30% Small caps value
20% Emerging markets
10% Technology/Biotech/Nanotech/Good knows what

along with a 6 month cash reserve. In that portfolio, your investment value could go down by 30% in a year - would you be able to deal with that mentally?

I tend to invest in "value" stocks that I believe the market has way underpriced. As such I do not try to weigh my portfolio in any particular way. As long as everything in it is undervalued by my measure, I don't care what they are. If I found five semiconductor companies all of which I thought were undervalued I'd have no problem with my entire portfolio being made up of just them. As for large declines in my portfolio...no one can really say how they will react to it. I would really hope and am trying to mentally train myself to be able to cope and stay the course in the case of a large market decline. Obviously at the moment since I haven't experienced any bad times I can't say for sure, but I believe I would be up for it.

I'm doing somewhat similar, but over 20/25 years and enjoying my life on the way Have a read through the fool.com website for their retire early advice. 30 sounds very ambitious, but I think retirement on your level of saving at 40 is possible. Things happen too and priorities change, so I wouldn't be putting my life on hold to save (you might meet a nice girl, buy a house and have puppies) - but you can be both a good saver and enjoy life.

I agree, and I can definitely see myself going "off track" with unpredictable things affecting my life. As you said having a family with a girl would be the most obvious but there are plenty more. 30 is being optimistic really, but I'll strive towards that goal and see how it goes.

Sarsfield

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

I have a plan to avoid paying tax (GASP ILLEGAL!!!)...

But seriously, have you looked at all your current tax liabilities? Back tax plus penalties will very quickly erode anybodys wealth. And a spell in the pokey will diminish your future earning potential. Dodging tax isn't easy or socially acceptable anymore.

Digi_Tilmitt

Sarsfield wrote:

But seriously, have you looked at all your current tax liabilities? Back tax plus penalties will very quickly erode anybodys wealth. And a spell in the pokey will diminish your future earning potential. Dodging tax isn't easy or socially acceptable anymore.

I actually haven't dodged a penny yet, as I have unrealized gains. But the plan is basically I signed a thing with my American brokerage saying that I was paying tax on any capital gains in my home country, and so don't have to pay it to the American government. I will only ever be transferring money out from my Irish bank account into the American online broker. If I make massive massive gains that I owe tax on, the taxman will never know unless I started suddenly sending these massive transfers back into my Irish account which might then raise suspicion at the bank. So when I build up to whatever amount is big enough to sustain me without me needing to work in my american brokerage account, I will pack up and move to Japan (cause I really love Japan). I'll then transfer any money I need to live into a Japanese bank account and live off that. That's it.

Is there's any gaping holes in that plan...please tell me!

hmmm

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

Is there's any gaping holes in that plan...please tell me!

Yes, the Revenue might introduce an information sharing scheme with the US authorities and you are officially screwed (not too unlikely, they've done it with other jurisdictions). Also, the Revenue may query your outgoings (and any incomings) from your bank account if you're subject to an audit.

CGT is "only" 20% at the moment, it's best for your mental health to stay legal and not have to spend your days worrying about getting caught.

What happens if in 10/20 years time you decide you want to stay in Ireland? You will then have to transfer untaxed income into the country and declare it (with huge penalties), or sit around poor in Ireland while your wealth is out of your reach. Not worth it I think.

PDelux

one of the VPs in the company that I work for retired in his mid 40's which i thought was young. He only had the company stock but because he was a VP he had alot and owned it through the tech boom of the 90's.

Have you noticed as well that the slide in the dollar has eroded some of your gains? It has happened to me but i am not worried because i think its a temporary blip and wont carry on in the medium term.

Do you trade options too on your American brokerage?

When you talk about buying undervalued stocks do you mean like buying energy stocks now that oil is low(er)? for example Valero (VLO)

stepbar

I tend to invest in "value" stocks that I believe the market has way underpriced.

What criteria are you basing the decision to invest on?

Digi_Tilmitt

PDelux wrote:

one of the VPs in the company that I work for retired in his mid 40's which i thought was young. He only had the company stock but because he was a VP he had alot and owned it through the tech boom of the 90's.

Have you noticed as well that the slide in the dollar has eroded some of your gains? It has happened to me but i am not worried because i think its a temporary blip and wont carry on in the medium term.

Do you trade options too on your American brokerage?

The dollars decline has eroded my gains, but considering I will be transferring in more cash soon and fairly regularly from now on, I have alot more to gain from a weak dollar than a strong one.

I don't trade options, the only ones I could see myself involved with would be selling calls, but I find that the good premiums are all on stocks that are overvalued in my opinion, or "growth" as the people who buy into them like to call them. But I will always be on the look out for a reasonably priced stock with excellent premiums to pick up.

When you talk about buying undervalued stocks do you mean like buying energy stocks now that oil is low(er)? for example Valero (VLO)

What criteria are you basing the decision to invest on?

There are many factors and there are a few different "types" of good value stock that I look for. Generally the following criteria: I look for low P/E's, stock that has been overpunished for bad news, good dividend yields, high short interest. Also a stock that has been repeatedly hammered down by the market for no good reason. I wrote a pretty embarrassingly bad article for my website about my views on investing...it might give you more of an insight into my style. Here's the article.

stepbar

Thought so.... basing ur "investments" solely on the figures.... My advice......

Stick to the day job....:rolleyes:

Sangre

So you basically want to scrimp, save and basically reduce the quality of your life while you're in your prime?

No thanks.

Digi_Tilmitt

stepbar wrote:

Thought so.... basing ur "investments" solely on the figures.... My advice......

Stick to the day job....:rolleyes:

What would you suggest I do instead?

Digi_Tilmitt

Sangre wrote:

So you basically want to scrimp, save and basically reduce the quality of your life while you're in your prime?

No thanks.

I do not need to spend massive amounts of money to enjoy my life or be happy. At my current rate of spending I can enjoy all the things I want within reason. It would be different if I was miserable...but I guess some people need material goods to fill holes inside themselves more than others...

But I do really hate working. So I think reducing my consumption from a reckless diminishing returns level to a moderate yet satisfying level is a great deal for escaping slavery to work while I still have a small bit of kick left in me.

stepbar

Well first off ur looking at P/E yeah? P/E is not always an indication of a "value" investment. Have you looked at the industry P/E? What is the average? If the P/E is below the average well then it may be a good investment.

Do you have an understanding of the concept of a company strategy? Who are the competitors? Where are they positioned relative to the company? What is the management team like? What experience do they have? What percentage of shares do management own? What assets do they have? How are they valued? Is there any hidden value that could be unlocked?? etc etc etc etc etc etc I could go on. DO NOT BASE YOUR INVESTMENTS SOLELY ON THE FIGURES because you are taking a VERY NARROW view.

Digi_Tilmitt

stepbar wrote:

Well first off ur looking at P/E yeah? P/E is not always an indication of a "value" investment. Have you looked at the industry P/E? What is the average? If the P/E is below the average well then it may be a good investment.

Do you have an understanding of the concept of a company strategy? Who are the competitors? Where are they positioned relative to the company? What is the management team like? What experience do they have? What percentage of shares do management own? etc etc etc etc etc etc I could go on. DO NOT BASE YOUR INVESTMENTS SOLELY ON THE FIGURES because you are taking a VERY NARROW view.

I know that P/E is a relative indicator, I do look for low P/E's relative to what the company is involved in.

Most of the rest of the stuff you mentioned is far too subjective. Anyone can convince themselves that such and such a company has an amazing management and so even at this insane price it's still a good buy. I cut out most, but not all of that stuff from my analysis, as it's really too easy so see things that aren't there when you consider such stuff.

I would strongely disagree that there is any benefit to your way of doing things. In fact I would say it only clouds your mind with useless ridiculously subjective information that will lead you to justify unsound fundamentals and buy shares in companies that you shouldn't.

I don't care if the CEO is a lauded as a "genious" or the management has a billion years of experience between them. If it's not making money I'm not interested.

stepbar

OMG :rolleyes: You really are talking sh1te; you havent got a clue, not a clue. And that article well my god.... The absolutely nothing new about what your talking about there........ Ha ha "buy low, sell high" up ya boy ya......

Seriously how can you say a share is a good investment or not if your not able to look at the whole picture? How can you invest in a share if you dont understand the underlying market that the company operates in? What is the point in investing in a semi conductor company if you dont understand the micro / macro conditions that it operates in and the conditions that affect profitability? Amateur investors look at the figures, the professionals look at the future potential and then justify the investment with the figures. If your are going to be serious about "investing" as least get a book out on strategy and have a good long read of it.

Digi_Tilmitt

stepbar wrote:

OMG :rolleyes: You really are talking sh1te; you havent got a clue, not a clue. And that article well my god.... The absolutely nothing new about what your talking about there........ Ha ha "buy low, sell high" up ya boy ya......

Seriously how can you say a share is a good investment or not if your not able to look at the whole picture? How can you invest in a share if you dont understand the underlying market that the company operates in? What is the point in investing in a semi conductor company if you dont understand the micro / macro conditions that it operates in and the conditions that affect profitability? Amateur investors look at the figures, the professionals look at the future potential and then justify the investment with the figures. If your are going to be serious about "investing" as least get a book out on strategy and have a good long read of it.

While subjective knowledge certainly helps, to give it significant weighting is really a bad idea. As I have said above, it's far too open to interpritation. It's really easy to convince yourself to buy into something that isn't making money because of vague factors that your brain considers a plus, but at the end of the day those factors are still attached to a company that's not making good profits.

I do look and listen about general market trends and factors, but it is most definitely not the main thing I use to make judgements on what to buy. Yes I allow it to affect me, but its influence is very small compared to financial fundamentals.

To me you sound like a technical analyst, trying to see something where there's nothing. The numbers are there in front of you. Use them.

hmmm

meh I'm with Digi on this. You should consider a company in its entirety of course, but my initial screens are all financial ratio and not industry based. Philip Lynch (one of the few to beat the index) had his strategy of buying companies in boring industries, preferably distasteful industries (e.g. undertaking), as he said himself mafia involvement was a plus and with an appropriate set of financial figures. He put a lot of faith in PEG as a metric. Buffet & his mentor Graham are classic "value" investors, Dreman is a noted contrarian who believes that investors overpay for growth.

If you decide that there are inefficiancies in the market EMH (personally I believe they really only exist in special situations and micro caps), then it takes a good 10 years for you to figure out whether your strategy is right or wrong.

daveg

I'm not going to talk about shares but I have 2 thoughts for you OP. Before I do I just want to say best of luck with your plan, it's a very fresh idea.

Firstly your 19. I'm 32. I have a wife and a child. I remember when I was 19. A lot of things will change (actually nearly everything) over the next 10 years for you. Priorities will change for number one. As someone else pointed out you may, and probably will, meet someone and will settle down. Then you have to think about buying a house etc. What I will say is you saving now will help if priorities change and you take a different direction. I'm not trying to say that you will be married with kids in 10 years time. What I am trying to say is that both you and your priorities will be total different in 10 years time.

Secondly why are you aiming to live in one of the highest cost of living countries in the world? Why not Thailand? You may find the lump sum you need to retire will be much less for somewhere like Thailand.

Just to add working for a living, when it's something you enjoy, is not so bad. Personally I'd find it very hard not having routine and a purpose everyday if I were not working. I know this as I was once out of work for 3 months. I went mad. Concentrate as much on your studies n college as you do on trying to make that million.

Best of luck with it OP.

Kingkong

Found this thread very entertaining. Really does show that investing is more an art that a science I think. With so many theories and views is investing pot luck at the end of the day. Yes you can control risk but not without sacifcing returns. How come the majority of mutual funds managed by highly paid so called professionals fail to beat the market index. Are all investors at the mercy of the market at the end of the day.

PDelux

Have you conisdered spread betting? If you know what you are doing it is definitely a way to make money fast. (you can lose money fast if you dont know what you're doing:) )I know alot of people here, from past posts, are against it but it might be worth a look.
Some good reasons for it are:
-you need less cash which means you can spread the money over a larger number of stocks.
-no tax on the gains
-more risk but more profits
-say one of your stocks in your portfolio is taking a beating from bad news or whatever, you can hedge against this by selling the stock on your spread betting account

The spread betting websites usually have a simulator, before you think about setting it up you can try the simulator to see how it works.

damnyanks

To make any substantial gains you are better off looking into future / option contracts as opposed to straight forward cash equities. It's far more volatile so you could lose a bomb but if you know what you're doing it can go very well.

Obviously you are at the mercy of the market.

PDelux

Digi, there is a special "Where to Invest 2007" issue of BusinessWeek magazine this week you should get. Has some really good articles.
This is a great magazine.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/06_52/B4015magazine.htm

smemon

pretty romantic plans there...

i'm 19, basically doing the same thing only investing in internet ventures.

the only difference is that i own and control the 'businesses' which i invest in.

i'm not content to be a millionaire or retire at 30, you can't live off a million nowadays. 10 years down the line, you DEFINITELY won't be able to live of a million euro.

in 10 years time, you'll be lucky to get any kind of a house for €1m

stepbar

smemon wrote:

pretty romantic plans there...

i'm 19, basically doing the same thing only investing in internet ventures.

the only difference is that i own and control the 'businesses' which i invest in.

i'm not content to be a millionaire or retire at 30, you can't live off a million nowadays. 10 years down the line, you DEFINITELY won't be able to live of a million euro.

in 10 years time, you'll be lucky to get any kind of a house for €1m

Stop calling yourself an entrepreneur will ya and take your head out of your arse :rolleyes:

http://www.answers.com/entrepreneur&r=67 and thats only one definition of which there many.

Where is the risk in divvying up a few websites and pulling ad revenue from them? ZERO (In fact dont be going telling roy keane what your at... he'd sue the sh1te out of ya)

Your young (and nieve...) ill give you that.. but DEFINATLY NOT an entrepreneur

smemon

stepbar wrote:

Your young (and nieve...) ill give you that.. but DEFINATLY NOT an entrepreneur

granted, i'm playing it safe with some sites, the one's you know about. But i've invested quite a bit in projects which are just getting off the ground. I've spotted niches, examined the competition and backed my ideas with cold hard cash.

Obviously i won't tell you what they are until i've firmly established them. I've stupidly bought into one or two things which haven't paid off and learned from it

I've also offered to takeover websites currently running at losses a measure of my confidence. (or a measure of my stupidity as you would say )

Put it this way, if i continue to develop sites at the rate i've done over the last 6 months or so, i'll be able to live comfortably off the net within the next 3 years and have sites worth quite a bit i can flog at anytime to get me out of trouble should trouble arise.

Reyman

Try this website - http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com.

Some interesting points !

Zascar

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

stepbar

Zascar wrote:

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

If thats a dig at me then fair enough, I'm well able to take it. In fairness Zascar, if you come looking for advice here you should at least expect to have **** thrown at you. Personally I think Digi and Smemon are two nieve chaps. One is sticking every penny he's got into shares and has a very narrow view of how to invest; whilst the other is buying up / speculating in websites (much like the way ur man O'Gara on Dartmouth Sq speculates in the Ground Rents ) and trying to get huge amounts of traffic through them in the hope of selling them on for big profit / pulling in ad revenue from Google. And neither has a background in their chosen fields (Okay okay, not the be all and end all but it would help big time). Now you COULD'NT class this as being entraprenural. No way. What ever about setting up a proper business but not this sort of craic.

But look, good look to them both but boy does it make me frown.

Zascar

I've no problem with offering constructive criticism or pointing out failings etc, but it was the way you said that was just incredible dismissive and generally condisending, I don't think there was any reason for your 'tone'. Have a read again over your posts - I really don't think they deserved it.

stepbar

Well im sorry but that the way I am. I might not be so dismissive if they actually knew what they were talking about, had a bit of working experience in their fields and were able to properly justify the decisions / risks they are taking. Sometimes a sharp dose of reality is needed. In fairness, if it was that easy to make money we would be all doing it. Everyday at work, I see some great businesses that are not even turning a profit. Fundamentally the idea is rock solid but however the execution is not so good. My point is that its so black and white at the end of the day.

el diablo

Zascar wrote:

Digi: Fair play to you mate. Having an attitude like yours for saving and investing at 19 is fantastic. I was much the same but never managed to me as frugal, always had good intentions but I have a taste for the expensive things in life and always spent most of my money instead. Only now at 26 and I really beginning to put a decent amount aside for saving and investing. But if you can keep yours up and refine your investing abilities you are well on the way to financial independence long before most people. Just work on making more money so you can invest more. Why settle for just 1 Million – Aim for 2 or 3! May take you a while longer but you will have a better quality of life for longer! Maybe think of living in Thailand, you can live like a king there for very little money. Explore the options.

Personally I think you should open your mind to your attitude to work. Realistically no one likes working as much as they like doing their own thing, but if you can fine something you enjoy that makes you enough money to have a comfortable life and some extra to save and invest continually, you are more likely to retire in a better state. Working is a part of life for 99% of us, its not that bad. You are 19 and no 19 year old wants to spend their days working, but I'd try to find an enjoyable career that will enable you to have a good life now, retire earlier than most and live well then. My view is I don’t necessarily want to retire young, I just want to be wealthy. The more money you have the more you can make. Work hard now, climb the ranks, acquire and develop skills and grow your earnings. Earn more money and live a better quality of life when you can afford the things you only dream about now. Give that some thought. You already have an aptitude to saving and investing well, apply that in a business or career and watch it flourish. Why not get a job in the financial industry, you already seem to have a far better idea than 99% of people your age!

Smemon: Same goes. I too did a little web entrepreneurship when I was younger. I used to design websites before every man and his dog were having a go, and it made me a very decent living for quite a few years. I never did exactly what you do, but fair play for giving it a go. Have a crack at a lot of things, you only need one to get popular before you can sell it and do very well. I was always interested in computers etc, but ended up doing a business degree and then working in IT sales, but now I earn more money than any of my piers and

And a message for some of the negative posters on this thread: You should be absolutely f**king ashamed of yourselves. A few young ambitious lads come here asking for advice and you shoot them down saying they are wrong and calling them idiots. Absolutely disgraceful. They should be positively encouraged and given constructive advice as to how to improve their plans and ideas. It is utterly pathetic of you to come in here and take them to shreds. I used to make a lot of posts like this and usually got decent helpful advice, but all it took was one fcukwit to rain on your parade with some depressing bullshiit to curb your enthusiasm.

Guys a very important piece of advice is do not get put off by people throwing only negatives at you. Yes it is important to understand the risks and downsides, but don’t let it stop you pursuing your dreams. Ask any successful person and they will tell you about the mistakes they made and how they learnt from them, the big risks they took, some did not go so well but others may have made them millionaires. You will always find some completely anal risk averse people who will probably never about to half of what you will.

Best of much lads, keep asking questions, learning and just GO FOR IT.

nice post there and I mostly agree. but I'm really just here to suscribe to this thread. it's interesting....;)

LundiMardi

OP, it's a very idealistic attitude you have.... but, it will most likely have changed withing a year or two. When you get a girlfriend, when you get a car etc... As you get old your outgoings will grow, it's not really something you can control.

smemon

LundiMardi wrote:

OP, it's a very idealistic attitude you have.... but, it will most likely have changed withing a year or two. When you get a girlfriend, when you get a car etc... As you get old your outgoings will grow, it's not really something you can control.

^^good point. I have both and both are both are very expensive to (a) keep (b) maintain

@ Zascar, i love those posts... the one's that spur you on, add a little spring in your step.... had it not been for posts like that and views like that, i wouldn't be taking risks or trying my hand at this.

If the internet was irish only, i wouldn't be interested in owning websites, that's a fact. Look at the way Alex Tew gets bashed yet he's a millionaire... another project on the way from him and it's getting bashed yet it's made him over $100,000.

I personally take my hat off to him, i'm of the American viewpoint where you stand back and admire an idea, then try to better it yourself. Rather than the Irish viewpoint of criticizing it and trying to take it down.

i've site i bought for $500, at the time of buying there were 3 other offers for $1000 but due to pressure on the buyer, he couldn't wait a few days and had to accept my bid.

so immediately i was sitting on a 100% return on investment. I could have sold it and made a 100% return on invesment within a few days. Now, i don't have a degree in business or 30 years experience in investing, but it doesn't take a genius to work out i got a good deal

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

stepbar

smemon wrote:

^^good point. I have both and both are both are very expensive to (a) keep (b) maintain

@ Zascar, i love those posts... the one's that spur you on, add a little spring in your step.... had it not been for posts like that and views like that, i wouldn't be taking risks or trying my hand at this.

If the internet was irish only, i wouldn't be interested in owning websites, that's a fact. Look at the way Alex Tew gets bashed yet he's a millionaire... another project on the way from him and it's getting bashed yet it's made him over $100,000.

I personally take my hat off to him, i'm of the American viewpoint where you stand back and admire an idea, then try to better it yourself. Rather than the Irish viewpoint of criticizing it and trying to take it down.

i've site i bought for $500, at the time of buying there were 3 other offers for $1000 but due to pressure on the buyer, he couldn't wait a few days and had to accept my bid.

so immediately i was sitting on a 100% return on investment. I could have sold it and made a 100% return on invesment within a few days. Now, i don't have a degree in business or 30 years experience in investing, but it doesn't take a genius to work out i got a good deal

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

I have respect for the likes of Sean Quinn who put everything on the line, created employment for thousands of people at a time where the amount of jobs available were as scarse as the teeth on a hen. He's now a billionaire. I have respect for Bill Cullen who had it harder than most coming from Summerhill (one of the most deprived places in Dublin) and nearly lost his shirt plenty of times. I have respect for Sean Mulryan who remortgaged his house to start Ballymore Properties in 1982, when the country was on its knees. These guys are REAL entrapreneurs and took REAL risks when no one else would give them the time of day. There is ZERO risk with what you are at. Infact you could continue to go ahead and develop sites for the next 5 years and still have ZERO risk. Its a form of bastardised "stock" trading where the "stock" is websites.

i don't buy into the argument that you need degree's, experience & 'fields of knowledge' to succeed in business. All you need is cop on and money imo

Neither do I but if you are going to talk about real entrapreneurship then this is not it. Sean Quinn left school at 14. However he didnt get to where he got to with out a bit knowledge gained from experience built up over the years and making the odd mistakes here and there. Why dont you keep pursuing a career retailing? Open up a shop? Open up 10 of them whatever you like. Because this internet stuff wont keep you in a job, hobby maybe, extra income maybe. Alex Tew may have made a million but you only have to take a look at the website and look at the sort of trash ads on it for god knows what. I couldnt have respect for that carry on. There was zero risk with what he done as well. Good luck to you but I dont buy into it at all.

You might want to have a look at this thread on "See The CV" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054984827&referrerid=&highlight=the%20cv
People slaughered it including myself. In fact this company featured in the Sunday Business Post, hard to believe I know.

damnyanks

You can make a living off websites easily. You neet to put a lot of time and effort into it. You won't do well out of it with google ad's unless you have some seriously high traffic coming to the site or are running some form of fraud.

I used to be mad for the ol websites knew pletny of people making money out of it. I don't see anything in smemon's tag to show he is making serious money but whats the harm in a little fun and trying to make serious money.

As far as alex tew, he got lucky. So what about the ad's on it, he doesnt care. He was a bum student who wanted 1mill. He got it, thats a successful undertaking. He met all objectives!

It's spawned idiots who think it will work for them. The novelty value is gone get over it

Digi_Tilmitt

Zascar, thanks for the advice. It would be nice for me to find a job that was at least somewhat enjoyable and that pays alot, but at least for the moment I don't think I'd be able to. Maybe as I get older and develop more intangible stuff like people skills and just general competance with responsibility I might be able to get something. But for now I'll continue the slow relentless march towards freedom with my part time job.

It's great also to hear some up beat encouragement from someone, I've heard "it can't be done" and "it can be done but not by you" so much that some doubt even kicked in, but a post like yours is enough to keep me inspired. I agree entirely with your commentary on the rain-on-the-parade posters. I think jealousy and personal regrets may be playing a part in some of the posts...

As for stepbar, I don't understand why you are so hostile to our budding enthusiasm. Again, maybe you were once like us but it blew up in your face, or maybe you just love to knock people down. Or maybe even you're just trying to get some sense into us. Still you could work a bit on making your posts less personal-attacks.

As regards my investment doings...I'm still on emergency tax. If I can get the manager of the shop I work at to sort out my tax for next pay then I'll be getting a pay for around 1800E. I've another 1900 in the bank, so that should make a nice transfer over to my stock account. At the moment I'm thinking I'll use 2500 to buy shares in the next undervalued thing I can find, and use the 1200 left over to buy options. I'll probably mess that up but I figure the best way to learn is (after reading about it and doing all the background etc, which I have) to jump in and see how I can work it.

smemon, it seems we are similar although taking different approaches to our goal. I think people should lean to whatever their strengths are, and it appears you seem to have an aptitude for website related stuff. Good luck! Hopefully we'll both make it good!

chump

Best of luck to you pal.

smemon

damnyanks wrote:

I don't see anything in smemon's tag to show he is making serious money but whats the harm in a little fun and trying to make serious money.

none whatsoever you're quite right, i've a very low traffic, low income network of sites. atm.

however they will have pulled in my first adsense cheque by the end of the month

i can't live off $100 every 6 months though

stepbar wrote:

Alex Tew may have made a million.... I couldnt have respect for that carry on.

well, i think i'd take $1m and have no respect from you, rather than make $0 and have your utmost respect

stepbar wrote:

Why dont you keep pursuing a career retailing? Open up a shop? Open up 10 of them whatever you like.

i've no interest in retail. Therefore i've no drive, no passion, no enthusiam to keep going when times get tough. With the internet, it's a different story. I know how it works, what people want, what makes money, what gets traffic, what drives traffic away...

the problem i have is that i can't custom sites so i have to pay to make a decent site.

granted, i haven't applied any of that to a decent website yet, but don't worry, my big projects are coming soon. My current sites are small fish and i realise/accept that. I'm by no means trying to live off my current sites

stepbar wrote:

this internet stuff wont keep you in a job

that's where i'll have to prove you wrong so

Digi_Tilmitt wrote:

Good luck! Hopefully we'll both make it good!

hopefully... as regards 'risk', i think it's more about sacrifice... nowadays, we all have money. It's not the the 70's, 80's where every penny counted, we can afford to gamble with a bit of cash.

Unfortunately, guys our age 'invest' in a social life (drink, cars, girls etc...). We are, by choice, curtailing that or sacrificing it in the hope we'll be rewarded down the line whilst the rest live a life of 9-5 work.

as they say, bravery is rewarded

PH4T

stepbar wrote:

These guys are REAL entrapreneurs and took REAL risks when no one else would give them the time of day. There is ZERO risk with what you are at. Infact you could continue to go ahead and develop sites for the next 5 years and still have ZERO risk. Its a form of bastardised "stock" trading where the "stock" is websites.

Zero risk? That's not true.

What he's doing involves risk as does stock trading.

stepbar

PH4T wrote:

Zero risk? That's not true.

What he's doing involves risk as does stock trading.

Show me the risk. As far as I am aware both still have jobs, still have an income coming in. Have no borrowings to repay. As best risk is minimal.

smemon

stepbar wrote:

Show me the risk. As far as I am aware both still have jobs, still have an income coming in. Have no borrowings to repay. As best risk is minimal.

so you're saying in order to become an entrepreneur, i need to sell my car, move out on to the streets, take out loans all over the place and plough it into my dreams???

this is the 21st century, we live in one of the richest countries in the world... i'm 'risking' all i can afford to.

i have a car, thats it. The rest either goes into savings (with a view to spending it on projects later) or into these current projects.

Banks are practically throwing at me, being 19 and working part-time in retail :rolleyes: I'm investing time more so than anything else in this... it's a full time job. Literally, any free time i have is spent working on the internet, or studying how websites work.

I reckon i spend about 5 hours a day EVERY day AT LEAST, on the internet, along with some 39hour weeks at my day job. My brain can't stop thinking... i have to be thinking, doing something... every idea i come up with is typed up in notepad and stored on my hard-drive..

I'm addicted to this stuff... i can't get enough of it i will stop at nothing to earn a healthy living from it...

Over the next few months, i expect to see some of my ideas take off. I'm a 10% stakeholder in some very promising websites yet to be launched.

optiplexgx270

And do you give your parents anything for your keep? Poor feckers cant get rid of you.

stepbar

smemon wrote:

so you're saying in order to become an entrepreneur, i need to sell my car, move out on to the streets, take out loans all over the place and plough it into my dreams???

If needs be, yes. If you believe enough in your business then yes. However I doubt you would need to move out on the streets.

smemon wrote:

i'm 'risking' all i can afford to.

Well there you go, I rest my case. You're not really risking anything, all you are doing is gambling the bit of money you can afford to gamble. Whilst other lads spend their spare money on cars / women / sh1te, you spend it on websites. Theres no risk to that in fairness. Now, gambling other peoples money is another thing entirely.......

smemon

And do you give your parents anything for your keep?

yes, €50/week, plus loan of my car once in a while.

all you are doing is gambling the bit of money you can afford to gamble.

i'm gambling EVERYTHING i can afford to. I'm working to gamble

The risk is in the time invested... im effectively paying to work a full-time job, whilst getting paid for a part time one.

So i'm putting in 40hrs a week, paying for projects etc... which means i'm currently running at a loss on the internet. About $1400 invested, with $100 return. (plus 'stock' obviously).

For a 19 year old, that's a pretty big risk. $1400 is a lot of money to a teenager. About 5/6 weeks wages for me

Like i've said i have a car, long term gf etc... so it's not exactly loose change either.

By June, i'll have ploughed another $2k into websites, which is starting to get pretty serious, and i'd consider that a fairly big risk, considering my age.

I can't afford to lose all of that money, so therefore it is a risk.

Now, gambling other peoples money is another thing entirely.......

yes, but you have to understand i can't get other people's money at 19 with a part time job. I do have a credit card all right, but use it as a debit card and transfer funds immediately after buying something via e-banking.

Sonderval

Fair play to those who are actively trying to become millionaires via shares, investments, etc. I'm in the same boat - I plan to retire when I hit 40, unless I am in a supremely interesting job

Its interesting to note that when I say this to people, and when I generally talk about investments, people who dont invest tend to get a bit annoyed or talk down my plans. People see investing as some obscure one in a million lotto, when in fact I find it quite easy to play the markets. I actively began 6 months ago and I am already 35% up on my initial investment (locked in profits). I plan to double what I have within the next year. If I continue to make at least 30% profit each year and re-invest these profits, I will easily break a million within 20 years. I anticipate reaching that target sooner though

It seems many lack the capacity to dream and take real balls to the wall risks to achieve said dreams - I find that quite disheartening. I understand that people can be afraid to take risks with money, but there is no pockets in your coffin!

Lastly, Alexander the Great pointed out that "fortune favours the bold". Truer words have not been spoken, IMO.

PH4T

Sonderval wrote:

I actively began 6 months ago and I am already 35% up on my initial investment (locked in profits). I plan to double what I have within the next year. If I continue to make at least 30% profit each year and re-invest these profits, I will easily break a million within 20 years. I anticipate reaching that target sooner though

Lastly, Alexander the Great pointed out that "fortune favours the bold". Truer words have not been spoken, IMO.

30% profit a year!

LOL well if the bull markets of recent years continue for the next 20 years then I see no hole in ur plan.

But what about years where you lose 30%?