Irish Rail, gangsters

Big Nelly

daymobrew wrote:

You had plenty of time to walk over to the other side. Surely, during your 10 minute wait you would have seen people come through the ticket office on the opposite side and use the pedestrian bridge.

Originally I thought you meant 10pm (based on the 10 minute wait and ticket office [which turned out to be the temp one] being closed), but, not now that the facts are out.

Can you read the bloody first post before you start your little rants, OK one more time

I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD BUY TICKETS THE FAR SIDE

Is that clear enough for everyone?

When I have got the train in before in the morning I would just buy in the little office. It is 1.95 FFS, its not like I cant afford 1.95. Sure it costs more for my bacon sarny in the morning that the train!!!:p

enterprise

At the end of the day you were FARE EVADING!!! You had reasonable time to purchase a ticket from the open ticket office. For you to claim "I didn't know what the building was on the other platform" just doesn't stack up with me. In fact its rather woodpeckerish of you.

If you had no means of buying a ticket at Coolmine and you were given a standard fare I would say you were hard done and if I was in your shoes I would refuse to pay it. But you DID HAVE MEANS OF PURCHASING YOUR TICKET at Coolmine. I was travelling on the LUAS one day, I had a monthly seaon ticket, however unbeknow to me I had lost it the previous day so when "tickets please" came it was a frantic search of my wallet to no avail. End result a €45 fine. Was I in the wrong? Yes, because I was travelling on the tram with out a ticket. Was I pissed off? Yes, big time! Did I pay the fine? YES.

Therefore stop whinging about it and pay the fine and think of it as a harsh lesson.

BuffyBot

Is that clear enough for everyone?

It's quite clear, I'm sure. Doesn't actually make that much of a difference, but it's clear.

KC61

Big Nelly wrote:

Can you read the bloody first post before you start your little rants, OK one more time

I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD BUY TICKETS THE FAR SIDE

Is that clear enough for everyone?

When I have got the train in before in the morning I would just buy in the little office. It is 1.95 FFS, its not like I cant afford 1.95. Sure it costs more for my bacon sarny in the morning that the train!!!:p

I would have to ask the question, what did you think the large building on the far side of the tracks was? I really do think that you are stretching credibility a bit too far by not even suspecting that it could perhaps be the booking office. Surely in the 10 minutes that you waited there you must have noticed people coming out of the booking office and over the footbridge? I'm afraid that I just can't think how you could not believe that a large building with turnstiles just inside the door couldn't be a booking office?

If not, well I have to say that I'm sorry, but really I cannot see where you can possibly think that you have a case. Pay the fine, and chalk it down to experience.

Calina

I don't particularly like yelling or anything like this but:

OP wrote:

I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD BUY TICKETS THE FAR SIDE

but you did know:

OP wrote:

THe point is here the policy for the last few years when coming from Coolmine and the little office is closed is that you buy your ticket at your destination.

Put it this way - you may well have gotten caught out on this but frankly...I'm not doing sympathy for you.

Seth Brundle

WRT the inspector 'lying' about you running for the train - how would he know whether you ran or not?

Seth Brundle

@ calina - I believe that the reference to the far side meant on the other side of the tracks and not the destination

Big Nelly

KC61 wrote:

I would have to ask the question, what did you think the large building on the far side of the tracks was? I really do think that you are stretching credibility a bit too far by not even suspecting that it could perhaps be the booking office. Surely in the 10 minutes that you waited there you must have noticed people coming out of the booking office and over the footbridge? I'm afraid that I just can't think how you could not believe that a large building with turnstiles just inside the door couldn't be a booking office?

If not, well I have to say that I'm sorry, but really I cannot see where you can possibly think that you have a case. Pay the fine, and chalk it down to experience.

Its tinted glass so from that side of the track you cant see anything. I never really thought about it to be honest if it was a ticket station or not. Didnt have to seeing as the policy was to buy at destination.

As mentioned above and please read the posts I have never got the train from that side so never seen what was in the building, yes I seen people walk across the bridge but sure they could have been coming from Castleknock and instead of taking a risk with there life on the bridge took the walk over.

Again if you are allowed get the ticket at destination for so long you dont really think about it, you just expect it to be the same. If this was a policy for 2-3 years and you took the train would you start running around like a mad man looking for a ticket cause you havent got one? or start checking in buildings on far side?

I will prob pay the fine, waiting for platform 11 to get back to me on it, but as I said to them I want to make sure that something is done about this so those f**kers in IE have to do something proper like put up an auto ticket dispenser on the Coolmine side or at least put up a proper sign telling you where ticket station is. I am going to makre sure it doesnt happen to someone else, not take the stupid attitude of "chalk it down to experience" so in a few weeks the exact same happens to someone else.

Big Nelly

enterprise wrote:

At the end of the day you were FARE EVADING!!! You had reasonable time to purchase a ticket from the open ticket office. For you to claim "I didn't know what the building was on the other platform" just doesn't stack up with me. In fact its rather woodpeckerish of you.

If you had no means of buying a ticket at Coolmine and you were given a standard fare I would say you were hard done and if I was in your shoes I would refuse to pay it. But you DID HAVE MEANS OF PURCHASING YOUR TICKET at Coolmine. I was travelling on the LUAS one day, I had a monthly seaon ticket, however unbeknow to me I had lost it the previous day so when "tickets please" came it was a frantic search of my wallet to no avail. End result a €45 fine. Was I in the wrong? Yes, because I was travelling on the tram with out a ticket. Was I pissed off? Yes, big time! Did I pay the fine? YES.

Therefore stop whinging about it and pay the fine and think of it as a harsh lesson.

Your a mod for this forum? God love regular posters on here. Do you know coolmine station? have you ever taken the coolmine - pearse train? have you a clue what you are talking about or you just having a rant to try and look cool cause your a mod here? if so grow up and read back. If your going to be a

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about something when someone comes on here to talk about transport then there is no way you should be a mod!!

The main problem here as I have said already is IE sudden change of policy, no proper signs to tell where to buy tickets. Telling complete lies when challenged about something. Pure ignorance of there staff.

Anyway talking to Platform 11, at least they sent some proper information and just didnt go off on a little power driven rant!! Thank you for being of no help what so ever! seen at least some proper posts from the users and nothing but drivel from the mod!!!:mad:

And what has your losing a ticket got anything to do with this? that was on Luas and not IE. Why not tell some other useless story. This is to do with the policy of IE where one week its ok to buy at destination and then next week that changes to catch people out. The luas have a proper ticket office at each station, not a half arsed shack on one side and a building on the other with no signs etc on other one!! yeah its a great setup. God Im so proud of Irish Rail, oh yeah they are the f**king jooke of European rail systems!!

KC61

Big Nelly wrote:

Its tinted glass so from that side of the track you cant see anything. I never really thought about it to be honest if it was a ticket station or not. Didnt have to seeing as the policy was to buy at destination.

As mentioned above and please read the posts I have never got the train from that side so never seen what was in the building, yes I seen people walk across the bridge but sure they could have been coming from Castleknock and instead of taking a risk with there life on the bridge took the walk over.

Again if you are allowed get the ticket at destination for so long you dont really think about it, you just expect it to be the same. If this was a policy for 2-3 years and you took the train would you start running around like a mad man looking for a ticket cause you havent got one? or start checking in buildings on far side?

I will prob pay the fine, waiting for platform 11 to get back to me on it, but as I said to them I want to make sure that something is done about this so those f**kers in IE have to do something proper like put up an auto ticket dispenser on the Coolmine side or at least put up a proper sign telling you where ticket station is. I am going to makre sure it doesnt happen to someone else, not take the stupid attitude of "chalk it down to experience" so in a few weeks the exact same happens to someone else.

I'm afraid that yes if I had been in your shoes I would check to see if there was an alternative location to purchase my ticket. I would have to say that a large building with an exit onto the platform (not necessarily the platform that you were on) would suggest to me that it was the booking office. There was nothing to stop you walking over the footbridge within the station to check out whether there was a booking office on the far side.

In fairness in the vast majority of stations on the IE network, be they commuter or Intercity, there is only one booking office and it isn't necessarily on the platform with the greatest throughput of passengers. This has been the case at Coolmine for some years now, but with a morning peak portacabin provided on the inbound side.

I wouldn't say that the "policy" was to purchase a ticket at the destination, I would say perhaps on the part of some people that the "practice" was. The terms and conditions have not changed. By travelling on IE trains you are deemed in law to have familiarised yourself with the said terms and conditions that apply thereto, and they clearly state that such behaviour is only acceptable when the booking office is closed. The fact that you didn't bother to try and see if there was a booking office (such as the large building opening onto Platform 1) is frankly your own tough luck.

I am genuinely sorry for your trouble, but I do think that with a bit of common sense you could have avoided all of this bother.

Ham'nd'egger

Ah FFS Big Nelly, chill out will ya?

You were clearly in the wrong on this, even if it was inadvertent. IE are being good enough to reduce a fine for which you can actually be sent down with a criminal record for so swallow the pill, pay up and get over the bridge (Ideally the footbridge as it is a safer crossing ) for something which was your own doing at the end of the day. It won't do you any good to refer to "previous policy" on the line yet not know that a ticket office on same line was open; to the wrong person it sounds myopic even.

And just think of two things with that €25...

1) Your taxi probably cost you that much home
2) Ask them to spend the €25 to make a sign for the ticket office.

shltter

Big Nelly wrote:

Your a mod for this forum? God love regular posters on here. Do you know coolmine station? have you ever taken the coolmine - pearse train? have you a clue what you are talking about or you just having a rant to try and look cool cause your a mod here? if so grow up and read back. If your going to be a

---

about something when someone comes on here to talk about transport then there is no way you should be a mod!!

The main problem here as I have said already is IE sudden change of policy, no proper signs to tell where to buy tickets. Telling complete lies when challenged about something. Pure ignorance of there staff.

Anyway talking to Platform 11, at least they sent some proper information and just didnt go off on a little power driven rant!! Thank you for being of no help what so ever! seen at least some proper posts from the users and nothing but drivel from the mod!!!:mad:

And what has your losing a ticket got anything to do with this? that was on Luas and not IE. Why not tell some other useless story. This is to do with the policy of IE where one week its ok to buy at destination and then next week that changes to catch people out. The luas have a proper ticket office at each station, not a half arsed shack on one side and a building on the other with no signs etc on other one!! yeah its a great setup. God Im so proud of Irish Rail, oh yeah they are the f**king jooke of European rail systems!!

It was only ever Ok to pay at the destination when you could not have purchased a ticket at the originating station.
The fact that IE accepted payment at Pearse St before is irrelevant as they would accept payment from you today as well on the presumption that whatever station you boarded at did not have an operating ticket office.

The simple fact is that you could have bought a ticket at Coolmine but for whatever reason and I accept it was an honest mistake you did not buy one there. Therefor you breached the rules and were fare evading you can not prove that you would have bought a ticket at the other end.
If IE accepted this excuse(however genuine it is) then they would never catch anyone for fare evasion as everyone could say the same thing.
What you were wearing or what you can afford is irrelevant you were on a train with no ticket despite the fact that the ticket office was open at the station you boarded at.
If the inspector had accepted your story it would be pointless having anyone checking tickets

Big Nelly

Hamndegger wrote:

Ah FFS Big Nelly, chill out will ya?

You were clearly in the wrong on this, even if it was inadvertent. IE are being good enough to reduce a fine for which you can actually be sent down with a criminal record for so swallow the pill, pay up and get over the bridge (Ideally the footbridge as it is a safer crossing ) for something which was your own doing at the end of the day. It won't do you any good to refer to "previous policy" on the line yet not know that a ticket office on same line was open; to the wrong person it sounds myopic even.

And just think of two things with that €25...

1) Your taxi probably cost you that much home
2) Ask them to spend the €25 to make a sign for the ticket office.

Taxi would have and I wouldnt have to had to walk from Pearse across to Pembrook road
Well you see if you dont complain then nothing will be done. It will go on the same and the 25 euro will just go into there profits. they need to spend to upgrade the station so this wont happen again.

Also if they didnt realise they where in the wrong then why after one mail drop from 70-80 euro to 25 straight away, to try and keep me quiet. Get me to think they are great and just pay up straight off

popebenny16

Its nice to see that the standards of the C&T forum are being well ahdered to and that the OP is getting the usual treatment dished out to those who end up at the wrong end of IE by the likes of Enterprise, Slitter and Ham'en'egger.

Now where is that conflict of interest thread again?

legs11

right there lads,

been reading this post, interesting:D
i have to back up the OP here, not on the fare evasion thing, but the facilities and general lack of organisation in the IE ticketing situation. as a country in whole, we tend not to complain, and accept things for what they are and get on with it. this is the main reason the country is royally f***** up, with regards to transport, roads, costs of stuff etc. we dont complain enough. and here the OP has every right to complain, if he does, and if more people do so then IE would have to upgrade their facilites, we are not in the mid 80s no more folks!

if you look at dublin, its a total mess. the transport and what not. the government had'nt the foresight to predict years ago what might the traffic be like in 2010. hmmmm, lets see a dual carriage way motor way ring road. problem sorted.......!
so after the ring road is nearly done, 25years in the making or whatever, its already over congested and they are extending the lanes...........nice
this lack of planning is evident pretty much throughout our country.
but, shur everythin is grand:D

Ham'nd'egger

popebenny16 wrote:

Its nice to see that the standards of the C&T forum are being well ahdered to and that the OP is getting the usual treatment dished out to those who end up at the wrong end of IE by the likes of Enterprise, Slitter and Ham'en'egger.

Now where is that conflict of interest thread again?

Benny, did you get a evasion ticket as well?

aliveandkicking

popebenny16 wrote:

Now where is that conflict of interest thread again?

Yes I find it strange that a moderator of this forum (enterprise) who consistently posts in favour of Iarnrod Eireann and who in the past has admitted to at least knowing IE employees (see thread here) has failed to declare anything in the conflict of interest thread. Surely moderators should be setting an example?

daymobrew

Hamndegger wrote:

2) Ask them to spend the €25 to make a sign for the ticket office.

I made signs for Drumcondra station a few months ago, at the bottom of the stairs that leads to each platform. I stuck them up myself. The previous ones were hand written. Mine were super laser printouts.
They've recently been replaced by proper plastic signs (with the same info as mine).

I'd be happy to print out a sign for the portacabin ticket office (the one not really visible from space) and stick it there.

Proposed Sign wrote:

This ticket booth is closed. Please purchase your ticket at the ticket office on the opposite platform

legs11 wrote:

the government had'nt the foresight to predict years ago what might the traffic be like in 2010.

No one predicted the expansion in car ownership or traffic that we have seen since the M50 opened. They worked with the forecasts that were provided to them.

markf909

I made signs for Drumcondra station a few months ago, at the bottom of the stairs that leads to each platform. I stuck them up myself. The previous ones were hand written. Mine were super laser printouts.
They've recently been replaced by proper plastic signs (with the same info as mine).

I noticed them last week. Well done on your initiative, its such a pity that IE cant even do the most fundamental of things like signage.

Johnny Jukebox

It is not unreasonable that when using a public transport facility, to assume that the ticketing facilities are readily available, and if not, to further assume that equivalent facilities are available at the destination. I would assert that this is a common pattern across railways worldwide.

To expect any prospective customer to exercise lateral thinking simply to buy a ticket is unreasonable IMHO. This incident is for a me a classic stereotype of all that is bad about state enterprise.

OP - prepare yourself well, and take it to the district court and represent yourself. I cannot believe any judge would deem your actions unreasonable based on the circumstances you have laid out in this thread. IE will of course be utterly impervious to the judgement.

I think the issue here cannot be simply wrong or right - its more whether the OP made reasonable assumptions and behaved reasonably in the circumstances and I submit that he did.

Victor

OK, folks, chillax. No need to attack people.

cold_filter

on the odd night where i go to blackrock on a weekend before heading into town on the dart. The whole station building is closed and there is nowhere to pay, no automated machines whatsoever. So when i get to Tara street i pay there as does everyone else its never a problem. The inspector seems to have a bit of an attitude problem as does the person you dealt with in IR. You should just email them the link to this thread and i'm sure they will drop the fine.

MarkoP11

If the station is locked up you are legally entitled to travel without a ticket provided you purchase one on train if available or at destination

In this case Coolmine was staffed and open at the time, the OP has not contested that

Slice

I cannot believe some of the responses on this thread.

I used to deal with complaint letters on a regular basis and had I received your email I would have taken it in good faith (assuming you're correct about the inadequate signage on the Dublin side of the station). From the sounds of things IE's attitude to their customers is appalling and in stark contrast to the attitude you'd expect from a private company.

What you should do is to write to one of their Directors outlining your case (whichever Director is most relevant). You should then stand by, and re-state your willingness to pay the original fare. You should close off your letter with notice that if they are not willing to drop the fine you reserve your right to pursue them for harassment.

This should get them off your case, especially if they're so precious about their revenue. Besides, they're not going to chase you for such a small amount anyway - it would cost them more to do so than it would to just accept your offer.

Slice

On an additional note: If you're serious in standing your ground you might also want to take photos of this lack of signage and the distance to the otherside of the station.

shltter

Johnny Jukebox wrote:

It is not unreasonable that when using a public transport facility, to assume that the ticketing facilities are readily available, and if not, to further assume that equivalent facilities are available at the destination. I would assert that this is a common pattern across railways worldwide.

To expect any prospective customer to exercise lateral thinking simply to buy a ticket is unreasonable IMHO. This incident is for a me a classic stereotype of all that is bad about state enterprise.

OP - prepare yourself well, and take it to the district court and represent yourself. I cannot believe any judge would deem your actions unreasonable based on the circumstances you have laid out in this thread. IE will of course be utterly impervious to the judgement.

I think the issue here cannot be simply wrong or right - its more whether the OP made reasonable assumptions and behaved reasonably in the circumstances and I submit that he did.

Ticket facilities were provided the OP chose not to bother using them

It would seem unreasonable to expect IE to staff full time two separate ticket offices on both sides of the platform because some people could not be arsed visiting the ticket office when it is open.

The OP says he was waiting 10 minutes it would have been much quicker for him to purchase his ticket at coolmine than to queue to pay it at a much busier station in Pearse St after his journey.

Seems to me that perhaps IE should cut off direct access to that platform when the temporary ticket office is closed and force all passengers to walk through the ticket office.

As for the issue of tourists if I was in another country the one thing I would not do is board a train without a ticket before I had assured myself that this was the only option.

Just a quick question to the OP can you not see that if IE accepted your explanation then they would have to accept that from everybody and fare evasion would be even more rampant than it already is.
While you are sure of your honest intentions the inspector has just found someone with no ticket who has passed through a station with an open ticket office. I'm sure he gets the I was going to pay when I got off excuse a 100 times a day.

shltter

popebenny16 wrote:

Its nice to see that the standards of the C&T forum are being well ahdered to and that the OP is getting the usual treatment dished out to those who end up at the wrong end of IE by the likes of Enterprise, Slitter and Ham'en'egger.

Now where is that conflict of interest thread again?

I have never hidden where I work.

As for the usual treatment it is just as nice to see the usual faces pop up to declare how unjust IE is.
What is funny is that the same people would be quicker to jump in and criticise IE for not protecting its revenue.
If IE let everyone off that had no ticket but had boarded at a station that had an open and staffed ticket office then the company would be in an even bigger hole in regards to its finance than it already is.

markf909

Seems to me that perhaps IE should cut off direct access to that platform when the temporary ticket office is closed and force all passengers to walk through the ticket office.

Bad idea.
Accesibility for wheelchair users and people with buggies/prams will be cut off.
There is no lift at coolmine station.

Slice

shltter: It would seem unreasonable to expect IE to staff full time two separate ticket offices on both sides of the platform because some people could not be arsed visiting the ticket office when it is open.

Perhaps it is unreasonable, but when public transport is supposed to mean exactly what it says on the tin it's disappointing to know that IE are not inclined to be as accommodating as they should be.

The effect of IE’s position is that they’re reducing the catchment-area of the station by adding to the time it takes for people in the vicinity to access it. Those people who already have a good distance to travel to the station will only stop using it once that distance (in time) becomes too great compared to other modes of transport available. Besides, what would be so wrong with a ticket machine in place of the second ticket office? Would the unions take issue with this? It's clear IE don’t intend on having a second person manning a second ticket office on a full time basis; ticket machine or no ticket machine.

shltter: As for the usual treatment it is just as nice to see the usual faces pop up to declare how unjust IE is.

So what exactly is so wrong with listening to the views of people who use the service? If your opinion is typical of IE's position then it only stands to serve a self-defeating agenda. You're clearly not willing to listen, and neither is John Byrne judging from his response to the OP. I understand profits matter less to IE than to a private company like Connex but that doesn’t mean IE are accountable to no-one.

The very fact that Luas was handed over to the RPA/Connex shows that there are consequences for providing a bad service.

I don’t want to knock P11 but I thought you’re supposed to represent rail-users? To the OP I would say stand your ground and perhaps talk to the Consumer Association who are generally more sympathetic in these matters. People who complain can often be unreasonable about their expectations but you still have a right to complain. If you were principled I definitely think you should stand your ground, I wouldn’t say that if I thought your position was an unreasonable one. Also, because IE is a semi-state body it wouldn’t hurt to talk to your local TD as someone mentioned earlier. You can write to them or meet them in person. Maybe even call them after your letter/meeting asking for an update – since they’re accountable to the likes of you and me you’re well within your right to do so. Poor signage and discreet terms and conditions is one of the biggest problems for consumers when it comes to exercising their rights.

Go for it (and don't forget to take photos)

daymobrew

Slice wrote:

The effect of IE’s position is that they’re reducing the catchment-area of the station by adding to the time it takes for people in the vicinity to access it.

Is 1 minute that much extra time? OP's "10 min long walk" comment is extremely inaccurate. If you look at the satellite image, note the scale in the bottom left - we're talking a distance of the order of 300 feet/100 metres from one side to the ticket office.
For further examples of the distances involved, have a look at the highly exaggerated walk times for the Coolmine station area, as listed on the DTO's website.