Garda reserves pay

thebaz

Apparently if you are lucky eneogh to become a Garda reserve , you do so for no pay !
Why in this day and age , where everything costs money , would you spend your time off, out trying to arrest the bad , the dangerous and the possibly innocent , free of charge ?
I know i can think of doing better things on the weekend, than playing cops and robbers for real , on the dangerous streets of our cities ?

I'd also wonder what type of person would want to perform these tasks free of charge , i.e could it lead to a worrying form of right wing vigilantism ? policed by people with a grudge against certain types !

rubadub

Many would do it for free if they got the same perks regular gardai get.

Free food, whores, drugs, drink, niteclubs, immune from arrest, no parking fines, get their mates off chargers etc....

Bluetonic

Can't see this thread lasting too long.

Dragan

I understand the idea of volunteering for something might be a bit large to understand but people do so all the time.

Sometimes it's done for unselfish reasons, sometimes not.

Nice to know the good people of boards will always be around to chat about why others shouldn't do it.

Sam Vimes

thebaz wrote:

I'd also wonder what type of person would want to perform these tasks free of charge , i.e could it lead to a worrying form of right wing vigilantism ? policed by people with a grudge against certain types !

are you suggesting that there might be some non-vigilantes in the reserve? that's dangerous talk that is

Sad Professor

TBH I never supported the idea of a garda reserve, but I think not paying them is a good idea. Yes it may attract some scumbags (I doubt they'd be accepted though) but it will attract also decent people who as Dragan says want to do it for unselfish honest reasons.

b3t4

Sad Professor wrote:

Yes it may attract some scumbags (I doubt they'd be accepted though)

A friend of a good friend got accepted and he'd be nearing that category. He has in the past dealt drugs and been put off the road for a couple of years due to dangerous driving.

My faith in the Garda reserve dropped even more so when I learnt of this.

A.

BossArky

thebaz wrote:

Why in this day and age , where everything costs money , would you spend your time off, out trying to arrest the bad , the dangerous and the possibly innocent , free of charge ?

Obviously you didn't read through yesterdays thread on the free papers

Sad Professor

b3t4 wrote:

A friend of a good friend got accepted and he'd be nearing that category. He has in the past dealt drugs and been put off the road for a couple of years due to dangerous driving.

My faith in the Garda reserve dropped even more so when I learnt of this.

hmmm just as I suspected: I was wrong. Maybe there are no good people left in the country to do it so they have to make do with guys like that. I guess its a lot of work and training when you're not getting paid for it.

ArphaRima

Who is in charge of selection?

I bet anything that Gardai are selecting below-par candidates in some kind of vain attempt to see the new reserve service fail.

However, I had absolutely no idea the garda reserve was unpaid! Is this really true?!
No wonder the garda regulars were against it! Imagine someone doing your job for free; how can you compete with them?

Dooom

Was it not said it was a non-paying job a while back? Maybe I'm just psychic.
If they'll let me wear a batman suit I'm in.

Sad Professor

it was made clear from the beginning that it was unpaid. That was the cause of the controversy - full-time garda would lose their over-time so some volunteer in a uniform could go play garda in their place

ArphaRima

Eeeeek. I had no idea. I am completely against unpaid volunteers.
Training is expensive in any form. A high staff turnover may be more costly than payment to keep them.

And there should always be reward for any profession. I just hope their reward is a feelgood factor, not reward from other sources.

Thrill

fluffer wrote:

Eeeeek. I had no idea. I am completely against unpaid volunteers.

I presume you just mean garda volunteers, and not the likes of Simon, SVDP and other charities.

I don't see why people would be against more guards on the streets,
volunteers or paid Garda. The community crime watch programs don't seem to be having any effect that i know of. Its worth trying at least, imo.

The_Conductor

rubadub wrote:

Many would do it for free if they got the same perks regular gardai get.

Free food, whores, drugs, drink, niteclubs, immune from arrest, no parking fines, get their mates off chargers etc....

You have a rather bizzare idea of what Gardai get up to.....
While there may be a few bad apples in the barrel, as indeed there are in any profession, the vast majority of the Gardai are firm but fair upholders of the law. How would you like to help at a checkpoint and be cursed and verbally abused by every second driver, called out to false calls- so local kids can get their thrills, called out to real call-outs where you know there is an above average chance that the people you are being called to aprehend may be armed and dangerous.....

Its a very tough job- the public in general have no idea just what the job entails......

As for free food and the list of other freebies that you are suggesting- do you really think this is true? You have some very strange ideas......

DublinWriter

rubadub wrote:

Many would do it for free if they got the same perks regular gardai get.

Free food, whores, drugs, drink, niteclubs, immune from arrest, no parking fines, get their mates off chargers etc....

I've a fair few mates and family who are members of An Garda Sìochàna, and I have to say the above is complete bullshite.

There's a recent publised case of a guard caught in possession of drugs during a raid of a known drug supplier. The case has been adjured to February and was published in various national and regional newspapers. I wouldn't class that as 'protecting' your own. Many guards are drummed out each year on Section 49 drink-driving and other crimes arising as a result of a public prosecution.

Secondly there appears to be a shift in opinion in the rank and file over the introduction of the reservists. Attitudes are changing.

However time will tell. First of all, if reservists are to be visually different in terms of uniform then it will be a disaster. Every scumbag will try it on when they know they are dealing with a reservist.

Many think reservists will free up regular members on 'static' duty, e.g. protecting ex-presidents and senior foreign diplomats from some rowdy throwing a beer-can over the fence of their D4 residences, but in reality, most of those high-faluting types would kick up a stink if they knew it was a reservist protecting their rose-bush.

I think the changes may be subtle and cultural. Remember the guards lived in barracks, much like the Army still do, up until the mid-1950's, and there still is a 'Barrack', or 'us and them' mentality alive in the force. In fact, it was a civillian Garda Commissioner, the first and last in the history of the state, who modernised the force during this period.

Having said that, how many police forces around the world still have a professionally paid band?

But back to the reservists. Who would do it? Hopefully after the vetting process is applied, civic minded people who's every single action isn't qualified by the typical Celtic Tiger Cub question of "what's in it for me?"

Personally I'm 50/50 on it. Sure it's worked for the Army, but the FCA isn't called into active combative service four hours a week.

monkeyfudge

fluffer wrote:

Who is in charge of selection?

I bet anything that Gardai are selecting below-par candidates in some kind of vain attempt to see the new reserve service fail.

Sounds like the plot by Captain Harris to discredit Commandant Lassard and his recruits.

ArphaRima

That dastardly scoundrel!

Made me laugh...!

Conar

smccarrick wrote:

How would you like to help at a checkpoint and be cursed and verbally abused by every second driver

Sorry for drifting off topic, but are we actually allowed to curse and verbally abuse Garda? Honest question.

il gatto

I think it might work in cities, where a volunteer will be anonymous and will not know the majority of people he encounters. In rural areas, even though you'll be posted some distance from home, people will still know you and you'll know them. A complete disaster. Losing a good job and pension is a great incentive for police to behave. If you don't get paid, your more likely to not care about bending the rules.
As far as the perks go, cops never, ever pay into a nightclub where I live. If they're not recognised, they flash the badge. I know of at least one young Guard who's regularly coked off his head, and who has been caught drink driving and got away with it. I'm not bashing the Guards, but there's a major problem with disipline and accountability in the force. I've read of countless cases that have been thrown out of court because the Guard didn't show up to give evidence.
Umpaid, power tripping, Templemore rejects is not the way to go in the ruchest economy in Europe. Stop squandering money and employ proper police (and an ombudsman ffs)

ArphaRima

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/Garda%20Reserve%20Notes.pdf

Leaving Certificate Examination or Irish
Leaving Certificate Vocational Programme :
a. A grade not lower than B3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level
in Mathematics, and
4
b. A qualifying grade in two languages, one of which must be English or
Irish, as follows :
Irish: a grade not lower than C3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another
level,
English or another language: a grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary
Level, and
c. A grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, in not less than two other
subjects.

I'm not sure they will be able to get too many people with such tough requirements..

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

The_Conductor

fluffer wrote:

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/Garda%20Reserve%20Notes.pdf

Leaving Certificate Examination or Irish
Leaving Certificate Vocational Programme :
a. A grade not lower than B3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level
in Mathematics, and
4
b. A qualifying grade in two languages, one of which must be English or
Irish, as follows :
Irish: a grade not lower than C3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another
level,
English or another language: a grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary
Level, and
c. A grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, in not less than two other
subjects.

I'm not sure they will be able to get too many people with such tough requirements..

Thats not tough.....
Thats a pass in two languages (one of which must be English or Irish) and maths and 2 other subjects at leaving cert level. Its not exactly rocket science.....

Gone West

thebaz wrote:

Apparently if you are lucky eneogh to become a Garda reserve , you do so for no pay !
Why in this day and age , where everything costs money , would you spend your time off, out trying to arrest the bad , the dangerous and the possibly innocent , free of charge ?
I know i can think of doing better things on the weekend, than playing cops and robbers for real , on the dangerous streets of our cities ?

I'd also wonder what type of person would want to perform these tasks free of charge , i.e could it lead to a worrying form of right wing vigilantism ? policed by people with a grudge against certain types !

You are basically what is wrong with this country.

ferdi

monkeyfudge wrote:

Sounds like the plot by Captain Harris to discredit Commandant Lassard and his recruits.

ArphaRima

smccarrick- Sorry I was being sarcastic.

The_Conductor

fluffer wrote:

smccarrick- Sorry I was being sarcastic.

thebaz

FuzzyLogic wrote:

You are basically what is wrong with this country.

Oh i apologise , its my fault we have to pay over inflated prices for nearly everything , from coffee to houses, rent to wages , parking to food -- and i then have the neck to question why people would like to spend there spare time, arresting there fellow citizens , at there own expense !

??

Hail 2 Da Chimp

thebaz wrote:

I'd also wonder what type of person would want to perform these tasks free of charge ,

I've done a lot worse for free.... She knows who she is! -_-

Gone West

thebaz wrote:

Oh i apologise , its my fault we have to pay over inflated prices for nearly everything , from coffee to houses, rent to wages , parking to food -- and i then have the neck to question why people would like to spend there spare time, arresting there fellow citizens , at there own expense !

??

Why question them?
Would you have "the neck" to question why people volunteer for St. Vincent de Paul, or voluntary work in a hospice/with homless people, etc.
Or even the army reserves, there is no real pay for that either.

Is it beyond your basic grasp of reality that people could do work because they want to. Or that they want to give something back to the society that has treated them so well?

Inflated prices has nothing to do with the issue, really...
Also, I suggest you read a basic book on economics. Or perhaps the wikipedia article.

thebaz

FuzzyLogic wrote:

Why question them?
Would you have "the neck" to question why people volunteer for St. Vincent de Paul, or voluntary work in a hospice/with homless people, etc.
Or even the army reserves, there is no real pay for that either.

Is it beyond your basic grasp of reality that people could do work because they want to. Or that they want to give something back to the society that has treated them so well?

Inflated prices has nothing to do with the issue, really...
Also, I suggest you read a basic book on economics. Or perhaps the wikipedia article.

Maybe you should be carefull with your condesending assumptions , and then blaming me for the countrys ills , for your info i was in the SVP , and helped the elderly and less fortunate -- but that voluntary work , for me is completly different to part term membership of the Garda.