Nightclub closing hours vs how much we drink

Cianos

Wicknight you seem to be so anti-fun its unreal. Your argument is basically saying that any kind of fun or enjoyment should be negated in favour of maximum civil order.

Also you wrongly believe that by further restricting peoples freedom and ability to choose will make for a better society. People are not 'stupid', people are just people...what's so great about you that you can sit and judge people and place yourself so high above everyone else?

Sad Professor

I agree with a lot of what Wicknight has said, especially about people drinking for something to do. Why else are young teens so desperate to turn 18 and start pubbing/clubbing? Because there's nothing else to do. I'm of a generation that doesn't know how to socialise without alcohol to loosen them up first. I know so many people who can't even walk into a pub/club on their own (or even with a group sometimes) without a couple of drinks first.

But I disagree that earlier closing times will help solve the matter. Brute force tactics don't work. The problem is cultural: we celebrate drinking as the national pastime and yet we still hold it out as a forbidden fruit to young people. We make no attempt to teach them how to drink responsibly. In fact we actually teach them the opposite. We joke and brag about how irresponsibly we drink. I mean, its actually cool in this country to get absolutely s**tfaced and say/do stupid things. You can use being drunk as an excuse for almost anything.

I'm still not sure where I stand on 24 hour pubs but I don't think it would have a huge effect either way on Irish drinking culture. Its not so much how we drink but why we drink. And because we enjoy it isn't a good enough answer. There's lots of things one can enjoy doing, why do Irish people have such a hard time find anything but drink?

coffee_cake

Cianos wrote:

Wicknight you seem to be so anti-fun its unreal. Your argument is basically saying that any kind of fun or enjoyment should be negated in favour of maximum civil order.

Any kind of fun or enjoyment? The only thing I've seen him wanting to limit is alcohol comsumption (maybe I'm wrong, if someone could point out to me where he was limiting anything else that'd be good) which is certainly not the only source of fun or enjoyment in this country. The problem is that far too many people think so and think they need to go out and drink to have fun. There was even an AH thread recently where the op said they were giving up alcohol and therefore had pretty much nothing to do on a saturday night. That's a problem.
People need to cop on and stop binge drinking because they are spending stupid amounts of money on it and not doing anyone any good. I sometimes wonder why many of the people going out don't just buy a bottle and sit at home in the corner drinking it because as drunk as they get they sure as hell can't be interacting with their friends that much due to being incapable...

as for closing hours, I'm in two minds about this one. I think people absolutely need to cop on and drink less but if there's a chance they'd go less nuts with nightclubs being open longer then maybe it should be given a go...
I could see some people calming down and not chugging the drink while they can because there's no pressure anymore... but I could see others taking advantage of it to (somehow) drink even more than they did before...

I bet if we made everyone enter a club and spend the night without a drink the vast majority of people would say they hated the experience.

It can be fun, dancing is certainly fun, but pubs are definitely better
particularly when there are pool tables
that said I'm as happy to go out to eat or sit in a cafe in the evening with friends as go to the pub so... *shrug*

Zombrex

Cianos wrote:

Wicknight you seem to be so anti-fun its unreal.

"Anti-fun" .... Groan :rolleyes:

Maybe you should ask yourself the question why you need to get drunk to have fun Cianos?

Cianos wrote:

Your argument is basically saying that any kind of fun or enjoyment should be negated in favour of maximum civil order.

Yes Cianos, that is my argument :rolleyes:

I also want to steal all your lollipops

Cianos wrote:

People are not 'stupid'

Actually "people" (16-35 year olds, particular women) by and large are very stupid when it comes to their own health and doing damage to their bodies. The rising alcohol, drugs and obesity levels in Ireland evidence of that.

Cianos wrote:

what's so great about you that you can sit and judge people and place yourself so high above everyone else?

Well I'm not an idiot, so I seem to have some advantages ...

Cianos

sad professor wrote:

I agree with a lot of what Wicknight has said, especially about people drinking for something to do. Why else are young teens so desperate to turn 18 and start pubbing/clubbing?

Good post Sad Professor. It's not that drinking is just 'something to do', its something they are not supposed to do. In my view young people are so desperate to go pubbing/clubbing because as you said yourself, its a forbidden fruit. They want to rebell and do what they are told they cant...like most other things teenagers do. Is it not better for a child to have his/her first beer with his parents at dinner than to be introduced to a naggin of vodka in a field somewhere?

Wicknight wrote:

Maybe you should ask yourself the question why you need to get drunk to have fun Cianos?

I never said I need to get drunk to have fun Wicknight, in fact I would drink very little on a night out in comparison to a lot of people. But guess what...getting drunk is fun and its something people enjoy doing! On top of this, (and you may want to sit down for this one) 99% of the population go out every weekend, get drunk and dont cause a bit of hassle even though they may crawl in through the door at 10 past the 4 am Ted

Wicknight wrote:

Actually "people" (16-35 year olds, particular women) by and large are very stupid when it comes to their own health and doing damage to their bodies. The rising alcohol, drugs and obesity levels in Ireland evidence of that.

Actually, most people are well aware of the negative sides of drug abuse nowadays with the amount of health articles and sensible drinking campaigns. But it is still their choice. You cant force people into making the healthier choice, its their body and they can drink whatever they please. Closing bars at 12pm is not going to turn us into a nation of athletes. So do you think shops should stop selling cigarettes at 12 too for all the smokers out there who cant say no to another fag?

If bars close at 12pm, as much as you'd like it to be so, the population is not going to be tucked up in bed at 12.30 all nice and sober. People will just drink at home where they can drink a lot more because a. its only 12 o'clock, b. there is no bouncer trying to shove them to the door and c. its way way cheaper!

I am well aware that there is a big drink problem in Ireland but enforcing stricter rules is not going to make it any better. Taxing drink further, closing bars earlier are all short sighted quick fix solutions that will not force people into changing their habits in the long term. Whats needed is a more relaxed attitude to drink in general, to allow people to make decisions of their own accord and to alleviate the strain put on gardai, hospitals and other services every weekend. As other posters have said it could be messy for a while as people adjust to their new found freedom but in the long run people will adapt a more mature attitude towards drink if they are forced to be responsible within themselves out of their own choice.

coffee_cake

Cianos wrote:

Good post Sad Professor. It's not that drinking is just 'something to do', its something they are not supposed to do. In my view young people are so desperate to go pubbing/clubbing because as you said yourself, its a forbidden fruit. They want to rebell and do what they are told they cant...like most other things teenagers do. Is it not better for a child to have his/her first beer with his parents at dinner than to be introduced to a naggin of vodka in a field somewhere?

Exactly. If only we had a little more relaxed culture with the odd bit of alcohol at home like they seem to in central europe... that way alcohol isn't such a big deal and people don't go nuts on it.

Sad Professor

Cianos wrote:

Is it not better for a child to have his/her first beer with his parents at dinner than to be introduced to a naggin of vodka in a field somewhere?

bluewolf wrote:

Exactly. If only we had a little more relaxed culture with the odd bit of alcohol at home like they seem to in central europe... that way alcohol isn't such a big deal and people don't go nuts on it.

I agree. I think ones first experience of something, especially alcohol, definitely has a big influence on how that person views it, probably for the rest of their life. For example, a child who suffers drunken violence from a parent is probably not likely to drink as an adult, or if they do may become violent themselves. If ones first major experience of alcohol is in a pub/club (as I think it is for most middle-class teenagers) then they may come to see socializing and drinking as being inextricably linked.

Alcohol as a forbidden fruit is certainly the primary drive behind underage drinking IMO. But I still think if there were better facilities and activities for teenagers in this country, and/or if more parents encouraged their kids to take up hobbies, as well as taking a more relaxed approach to alcohol, the problem wouldn't be nearly as bad. Alcohol is recognized as being such a huge part of Irish culture and yet you can't legally drink it till your 18. So is it really any surprise that the minute we do turn 18 (or look old enough) we run to the nearest pub/club and get completely hammered.

We aren't teaching our kids properly.

Zombrex

Cianos wrote:

I never said I need to get drunk to have fun Wicknight, in fact I would drink very little on a night out in comparison to a lot of people.

Then how would my suggestion ruin your fun?

Cianos wrote:

But guess what...getting drunk is fun and its something people enjoy doing!

So is speeding. And chucking rocks at trains....

If it wasn't "fun" to do people wouldn't do it and we wouldn't have a problem would we?

Cianos wrote:

On top of this, (and you may want to sit down for this one) 99% of the population go out every weekend, get drunk and dont cause a bit of hassle even though they may crawl in through the door at 10 past the 4 am Ted

You figured that 99% using the best statistical analysis available today did you? :rolleyes:

Here are some real figures for you -

41.1% of the male population and 30% of the female population regularly binge drink. This is the highest in Europe.

20% deaths of women under 29 from road accients or falls are caused by alcohol. 37% of all drownings are caused by alcohol.

88% of all public order offense and 48% of all criminal offenses :eek: are alcohol related

Intoxication of minors in a public place has increased by 370% in the last 10 years.

25% of all A&E attendents are there because of alcohol related injuries, with 1 in 8 still drunk when they get there.

30% of all male patients and 8% of women in Irish hospitals have been found to have serious underlying alcohol related damage to their bodies.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/theafternoonshow/story/1070711.html
http://www.healthpromotion.ie/topics/alcohol/alcofacts/statistics/

So please, 1% of the population is a nonsense statistic.

Cianos wrote:

Actually, most people are well aware of the negative sides of drug abuse nowadays with the amount of health articles and sensible drinking campaigns.

No actually most people have no clue about the damage drinking does to them. Most people don't even know what is actually classified as "bringe drinking". For a man it is 4 pints. Surprised?

Cianos wrote:

You cant force people into making the healthier choice

Actually, you can. When was the last time you saw a Coke being sold with actual cocaine in it?

Cianos wrote:

So do you think shops should stop selling cigarettes at 12 too for all the smokers out there who cant say no to another fag?

I think cigarettes should be banned completely from pubs. Oh wait, they are. And it has had a huge effect in decreasing the numbers of smokers.

Funny that the "give them as much as they can have" attitude amazingly didn't decrease the numbers of smokers isn't :rolleyes:

Cianos wrote:

If bars close at 12pm, as much as you'd like it to be so, the population is not going to be tucked up in bed at 12.30 all nice and sober.

They don't have to be tucked up in bed, they don't even have to go home. They just have to stop drinking.

Jesus, where did this idea come from that if you can't get sh1t faced there is no point being out in a night club? Ask yourself that question if you think we don't have a drink problem in this country :rolleyes:

Cianos wrote:

As other posters have said it could be messy for a while as people adjust to their new found freedom but in the long run people will adapt a more mature attitude towards drink if they are forced to be responsible within themselves out of their own choice.

Seriously, has the whole world gone nuts. I swear I am in a South Park episode

1 - Relax drink laws, give peopel the freedom to drink as much as they like when they like
2 - ?????
3 - Mature attitude to alcohol consumption

What is stage 2 Cianos? What makes our culture go from the state it is now to a mature attitude to alcohol? What is stopping us from having a mature attitude to alcohol now? Licencing laws? The high price of alcohol?

After years of awareness campaigns being ignored by the general population, especially young people smoking decreased when people were simply not allowed smoke.

Heck even the plastic bag tax forced people to think about reusable bags.

"Freedom of consumption" and easy unlimited access has never forced or made anyone think responsibily about something that they weren't already being responsible about.

Zombrex

Sad Professor wrote:

I agree with a lot of what Wicknight has said, especially about people drinking for something to do.

I'm not actually saying that people go drinking to a pub or a club because they have nothing else to do.

My point was that when you are actually in a night club, apart from dancing, there is nothing to do. This makes people slightly nervous, because as a culture we worry about simply standing around doing nothing. So, for something to do in the night club, people drink, simply as something to occupy the time while they are standing around chatting (which is hard to do because of th sound) or waiting to dance.

Picking up on blue's point about the pool, next time you are in a pub watch how much people drink when they are doing something like watching the match, or playing pool, or at a table quiz or something, and then watch how much someone drinks (even yourself) when they are doing nothing but sitting around. It will probably be more.

Then watch how much people drink in the same period in a night club enviornment. It will again increase.

To save you the trouble people already have, and people drink faster and therefore consume more the less they have to physically do in the enviornment they in. Some people call this "nervous drinking", though its not like you have to be really uncomfortable to do this, it is more of subconscious reaction.

Men do this more than women because they tend to find one-on-one social interaction more unnerving with out a 3rd party topic of discussion such as a football game.

It would be a very interesting social experiement to see how people would find an enviroment like a night club if they could not order drinks, even non-alcoholic ones.

Cianos

Wicknight wrote:

Then how would my suggestion ruin your fun?

huh? I said I drink a little amount in comparison to most people, I didnt say I never drink. I dont know why your making this comment.

Wicknight wrote:

So is speeding. And chucking rocks at trains....

If it wasn't "fun" to do people wouldn't do it and we wouldn't have a problem would we?

Even if it wasnt fun people would still do it actually. And as fun as they may be, chucking rocks at trains and speeding are highly dangerous acts towards other people. People drink to enjoy themselves and the act of consuming an alcoholic drink is not putting anyone at risk. The act of drinking a drink is not comparable to throwing rocks at trains and speeding.

Wicknight wrote:

41.1% of the male population and 30% of the female population regularly binge drink. This is the highest in Europe.

20% deaths of women under 29 from road accients or falls are caused by alcohol. 37% of all drownings are caused by alcohol.

88% of all public order offense and 48% of all criminal offenses :eek: are alcohol related

Intoxication of minors in a public place has increased by 370% in the last 10 years.

30% of all male patients and 8% of women in Irish hospitals have been found to have serious underlying alcohol related damage to their bodies.

25% of all A&E attendents are there because of alcohol related injuries, with 1 in 8 still drunk when they get there.

Cianos wrote:

I am well aware that there is a big drink problem in Ireland

Wicknight wrote:

So please, 1% of the population is a nonsense statistic.

Your statistics dont give any reading on the proportion of total drinkers to the amount that cause hassle because of drinking, which was my point in the first place. What proportion of people in a club will end up in a fight for example? What proportion of people in the whole of Dublin city on any given weekend night will end up in a fight? As I said, the vast majority of people go out to unwind and enjoy themselves with their friends, and do not cause any hassle.

Wicknight wrote:

No actually most people have no clue about the damage drinking does to them. Most people don't even know what is actually classified as "bringe drinking". For a man it is 4 pints. Surprised?

They may not know the intricate medical details of the effects of alcohol on the system, but most people do know that alcohol is bad for you. If you asked thousands of people 'is drinking bad for your health?' do you really think most people would not say 'yes'? Yet even knowing that drinking is bad for them, its a sacrifice most people are willing to make...why? Because they enjoy it.

Wicknight wrote:

Actually, you can. When was the last time you saw a Coke being sold with actual cocaine in it?

What does this have to do with it? Plenty of ingredients in various products have been deemed unhealthy and since removed to protect unaware consumers. Are you saying they should remove alcohol from beer?

Wicknight wrote:

They don't have to be tucked up in bed, they don't even have to go home. They just have to stop drinking.

A whole country stops drinking at the stroke of midnight...right. If this was to be voted on what kind of support do you think this notion would get?

Wicknight wrote:

Jesus, where did this idea come from that if you can't get sh1t faced there is no point being out in a night club? Ask yourself that question if you think we don't have a drink problem in this country :rolleyes:

Cianos wrote:

I am well aware that there is a big drink problem in Ireland

Wicknight wrote:

What is stage 2 Cianos? What makes our culture go from the state it is now to a mature attitude to alcohol? What is stopping us from having a mature attitude to alcohol now? Licencing laws? The high price of alcohol?

I'm not going to pretend I have have all the answers, but I think that our attitude towards drink needs to change before we mature as a nation of drinkers. If our attitude towards drink does not change, we are going to continue drinking the same amount regardless. And I do not think tightening closing times will change our base attitude towards drink. Unless you took an extreme approach, close pubs at 10pm and have them only serve 25 year olds and older, charge €20 for a pint, a year in jail if your caught giving abuse to the local chipper.

So now hardly anyone drinks, the country runs like clockwork...but does this mean people are happier? Is society better? Or is there something unhealthy about putting so many restrictions on people to the point where the individual feels he or she may as well have shackles around the ankles. Should we always be willing to sacrifice our own personal freedom and choice, the ability to be responsible? Its a question of how far along the nanny state road you want to go before things start turning sour.

Zombrex

Cianos wrote:

huh? I said I drink a little amount in comparison to most people, I didnt say I never drink. I dont know why your making this comment.

Do you need drink to have fun? If you don't then not having drink will not stop you having fun, will it?

Cianos wrote:

People drink to enjoy themselves and the act of consuming an alcoholic drink is not putting anyone at risk.

No one is talking about banning alcohol. No one is suggesting people don't drink. What I am saying is that there is a limit, a point when your desire to have as much fun as you can cross the line where it is damaging yourself and other.

Cianos wrote:

Your statistics dont give any reading on the proportion of total drinkers to the amount that cause hassle because of drinking, which was my point in the first place. What proportion of people in a club will end up in a fight for example? What proportion of people in the whole of Dublin city on any given weekend night will end up in a fight?

Tell me?

Cianos wrote:

As I said, the vast majority of people go out to unwind and enjoy themselves with their friends, and do not cause any hassle.

If that was the case we would not have a problem would we?

Cianos wrote:

They may not know the intricate medical details of the effects of alcohol on the system, but most people do know that alcohol is bad for you. If you asked thousands of people 'is drinking bad for your health?' do you really think most people would not say 'yes'? Yet even knowing that drinking is bad for them, its a sacrifice most people are willing to make...why? Because they enjoy it.

No because they don't actually understand what it is doing to them.

A doctor in one of the papers a few weeks ago told an interviewer about a woman in her 30s who broke down when she was told she had the liver of a 60 year old. People know "drinking is bad for you" but they have no idea what it does or how quickly it does it.

Cianos wrote:

What does this have to do with it? Plenty of ingredients in various products have been deemed unhealthy and since removed to protect unaware consumers. Are you saying they should remove alcohol from beer?

No, I'm pointing out that your argument that people should just be free to do what ever the hell they want even it is harmful to them is ridiculous, and not followed in any other area of public safety. So why drinking?

Cianos wrote:

A whole country stops drinking at the stroke of midnight...right. If this was to be voted on what kind of support do you think this notion would get?

Probably very little, just like the smoking ban.

Cianos wrote:

I'm not going to pretend I have have all the answers

You don't seem to have any answers

Cianos wrote:

If our attitude towards drink does not change, we are going to continue drinking the same amount regardless.

Our attitude to drink, just like our attitude to smoking, would change the more it is restricted. People don't smoke 10 cigs very quickly before they get to the pub to last them through the night.

Cianos wrote:

And I do not think tightening closing times will change our base attitude towards drink.

That is what people (smokers mainly) said about the smoking ban. People won't follow it, the pubs will go out of business, people will stay at home, no one will go out for a cigarette.

Attitudes did change because they were forced to change.

Cianos wrote:

Or is there something unhealthy about putting so many restrictions on people to the point where the individual feels he or she may as well have shackles around the ankles.

If not being able to get a drink past 12 midnight would make you feel like you have shackles on your ankles you have a drinking problem.

Cianos

Wicknight wrote:

Do you need drink to have fun? If you don't then not having drink will not stop you having fun, will it?

No I dont need to drink to have fun. But I like drinking, so even if I am already having fun I would still like to have a drink. Whats wrong with that?

Wicknight wrote:

If that was the case we would not have a problem would we?

If 100,000 people go out, and 1% get into a fight, that is a lot of fighting. That is a problem. Your calling of my (off the top of my head) 1% estimate nonsensical obviously means you think the number is far higher. So you think there would be what, 20,000 fights? The incidents that do happen are obviously problematic and in cities there is a big strain put on services due to the high volume of people. However, the vast majority of punters go out and do not cause hassle. How can you not agree with this?!

Wicknight wrote:

No, I'm pointing out that your argument that people should just be free to do what ever the hell they want even it is harmful to them is ridiculous, and not followed in any other area of public safety. So why drinking?

But people are free to do whatever they want even if it is harmful to them. If I want to go to Woodies and drink a litre of turpentine, I can. If I want to go to the offlicense, buy 30 beers and a litre of vodka and drink til every drop is gone, I can. The only way you can stop people from doing so is to ban the drug altogether. Theres always going to be people who go over the line, but they are going to do it regardless, or unless their attitude changes over the long term. So the question is what is the best way of changing peoples attitude.

Wicknight wrote:

You don't seem to have any answers

And your answer is??? Close all bars at 12. See how many people get behind you on that one.

Wicknight wrote:

Our attitude to drink, just like our attitude to smoking, would change the more it is restricted. People don't smoke 10 cigs very quickly before they get to the pub to last them through the night.

That is what people (smokers mainly) said about the smoking ban. People won't follow it, the pubs will go out of business, people will stay at home, no one will go out for a cigarette.

Attitudes did change because they were forced to change.

The Irish attitude to drink and the Irish attitude to smoking are in different leagues. 30% of Irish adults smoke while around 75% of Irish adults drink regularly. People dont go out to smoke, they go out to drink. Smoking is not seen as a social thing, drinking is. You can still smoke when you go out, albeit a little more inconveniantly but for the most part it does not effect your night out. Bars closing at 12 will have a massive impact. Drinking is fun, smoking while enjoyed by some is an unwanted addiction for most. One of the main issues regarding the smoking ban was for the betterment of working conditions for employees. You cannot drink passively. No matter how much booze is sold in a bar the barmans health is not effected.

Wicknight wrote:

If not being able to get a drink past 12 midnight would make you feel like you have shackles on your ankles you have a drinking problem.

Sigh...your persistence to tar me (and other posters) as closet alcoholics for the sake of your argument is wearing quite thin at this stage. You have a talent for taking peoples point way out of context. Let me say it for you nice and clear; I do not have a drink problem. Just because someone disagrees with your views on drinking does not mean they have a drink problem.

Zombrex

Cianos wrote:

So the question is what is the best way of changing peoples attitude.

That is the question. And this is the answer

At least, this it the practical answer. Your "lets hope everyone just some how manages to realise to drink responsibly but I don't know how that will actually come about after all I don't have all the answers" answer doesn't really count.

But then I don't really think you are arsed finding an answer, I think your main interest is that you are allowed to continue doing what ever it is that you do on a Friday night.

Cianos wrote:

Sigh...your persistence to tar me (and other posters) as closet alcoholics for the sake of your argument is wearing quite thin at this stage.

I don't think you are a closet alcoholic. I would imagine you are a young person, probably male, who has recently discovered the "joys" of going out, either in college or just finished college, and you have become so wrapped up in the modern culture of drinking as a form of social recreation you can't view any other way to spend a Friday or Saturday night.

But then I could be completely wrong, you could be an 80 year old grandmother. It doesn't really matter who you are. Your argument that not being able to buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or club after midnight would some how "shackle" your civil liberties is nonsense either way.

Cianos wrote:

You have a talent for taking peoples point way out of context.

Er, weren't you the poster who said I was on an "anti-fun" crusade and that I want any fun activity to be banned?

Cianos wrote:

I do not have a drink problem.

Good for you.

coffee_cake

People dont go out to smoke, they go out to drink. Smoking is not seen as a social thing, drinking is.

I've heard of "only a social smoker" before

When I asked people who drink heavily why they go out, they say they go out to socialise and have fun
"drink" isn't necessarily included in that
so if they just want to drink, they can buy it in the offlicence and stay home
or if they don't just want to drink, restricting drink in nightclubs or whatever shouldn't be so much of an issue

As for calling you a closet alcoholic, you might not be but there are plenty of people wandering around AH for example who'd agree with you when they do certainly have some kind of drinking problems
going out binge drinking every weekend or more to get completely plastered is a problem, even if "everyone else does it"

lostexpectation

Cianos wrote:

No I dont need to drink to have fun. But I like drinking, so even if I am already having fun I would still like to have a drink. Whats wrong with that?

do you really need to drink that many gallons of liquid ?

Cianos

Wicknight wrote:

That is the question. And this is the answer

At least, this it the practical answer.

Practical? You call closing all bars at 12 practical? Right..have you ever been in Dublin city centre at 3am on a Saturday night? If you have you would know it can be quite chaotic. This is from thousands of people spilling on to the street at the same time. Now, whats taking place at around 12? People are leaving bars as that is around the time most bars would be closing. Some of these people would be going home, some for food, some to a club/late bar, and a large proportion of them would be going home. So, you have all the people who would go out to a club/late bar remaining in the city centre. And you have all the people who are on their way home leaving the city centre. This leaves a period of around 2 and a half hours before all the clubs/late bars close. In this time the large proportion of people who are not going on to a club/late bar are making their way home. Then a while later you have the rush of people leaving the clubs who also want to get home. Now, can you imagine what it would be like if you had all the people who would not have gone to a club, and all the people who would have gone to a club out on the streets at the same time? It would be like Dublin at 3am, except not only do you have all the clubbers, you have all those people who were just going to a normal bar and who intended on going home around 12 anyway. ie, a much larger amount of people. At least with bars closing around 12 and late bars/clubs closing around 2.30 you have a certain level of staggered closing times which dilutes the flow of people. Your proposition would have ALL the punters trying to get taxis, buses, food at the same time. Doesn't sound very practical to me.

Wicknight wrote:

Your "lets hope everyone just some how manages to realise to drink responsibly but I don't know how that will actually come about after all I don't have all the answers" answer doesn't really count.

I said I dont have all the answers, it doesnt mean I dont have an opinion. I dont have all the answers, and you dont either. At least we are discussing it though.

Wicknight wrote:

But then I don't really think you are arsed finding an answer, I think your main interest is that you are allowed to continue doing what ever it is that you do on a Friday night.


I don't think you are a closet alcoholic. I would imagine you are a young person, probably male, who has recently discovered the "joys" of going out, either in college or just finished college, and you have become so wrapped up in the modern culture of drinking as a form of social recreation you can't view any other way to spend a Friday or Saturday night.

But then I could be completely wrong, you could be an 80 year old grandmother. It doesn't really matter who you are. Your argument that not being able to buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or club after midnight would some how "shackle" your civil liberties is nonsense either way.

Being neither a young student or an 80 year old grandmother, I would have a problem with that yes and I am certain most individuals between the two extremes would also have a problem with that. What would it take for you to feel your civil liberties are being compromised? Quite a lot it seems.

Wicknight wrote:

Er, weren't you the poster who said I was on an "anti-fun" crusade and that I want any fun activity to be banned?

I'll admit my first post was fairly brash, but the point I was trying to make was that you seem to have little or no appreciation or preservation for the positive sides of socialising. People enjoy going out after a working week to meet their friends, have a few drinks, unwind, meet a nice lady or man etc etc. These are all good things which people enjoy doing. Obviously people can do it to an unhealthy extent. But you have to have an appreciation for the enjoyment that people get from going out. You cant dismiss the fact that thousands of people across the country do it regularly as a source of enjoyment or pleasure much like you would have your things that you enjoy. And there is a lot of positivity in that. And yes of course there are other things to do that dont involve drinking, and they should be encouraged.

Cianos

lostexpectation wrote:

do you really need to drink that many gallons of liquid ?

huh?

caff

Anyone onsider lookin at the reports of what is happening in the UK where they now can get 24 hour licences??

http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,,1956469,00.html
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/display.var.1039650.0.yorks_24hour_drinking_laws_one_year_on.php
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/uk/article_1225708.php/Drinking_law_reform_defies_apocalyptic_predictions