Abroad for cheaper treatment

ruffles

I want to get a few of my teeth crowned and the rest whitened, my boyf also wants some work done. We are considering a trip to Hungary over the xmas break to avail of the cheaper dental rates. Has anyone ever done this or heard of anyone and what can they recommend or advise. Thanks, i really wantt his work doen but am short of cash.

Bernadett

I am from Hungary and i use to live in Dublin for 4 years.My friend got his teeth done here with my dentis.He was so happy with them.He came out much cheaper and he had a good time as well.If you need any question about that let me know,because my dentis just start taking foreng pations.She is really amasing.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hummm....this comes up again and again. All quality dental care takes time and cannot be completed in a week. You can get good work done anywhere in the world but it generally takes time. Some of the quality of cheap dentistry I have seen has been so poor that it cost 10 times to origional cost of getting it done properly just to put it right. Any dental work can last a couple of years....its 5 years later when to gaps of the crown margins have caused massive decay and gum infection that you pay the price.

Dental work is health care.....would you get a replacement hip in hungary? If so go ahead and good luck.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Bernadette....whats your game...you cant post that its safer...safer than what. I see you signed up espically to tell us that information....I am suspicious that you may have a financial interest here. Your years in ireland have not improved your english either

shane86

Funny I came here to ask the same.

Got a betdown a few months back, could do with caps to restore maybe 20% of my two upper front teeth. I was told in the region of 400 odd. Is it possiblle for this type of thing to simply walk in, get an assesment and come back the next day for treatment?

Was thinking of making a lads weekend of it, fly out to Riga or Prague Friday, two day session, get teeth fixed Monday morning and fly back home. How reliable are these crowds, and what prices are we talking?

lomb

i think you need to be saving for implants if you have crowns fitted on the cheap. ive seen thousands of horrendously done crowns and they are not pretty. you arent necessarily paying for the crowns or the root canals or implants but for the experiance of the practitioner.
i see cost cut dentistry every day in the uk and on people from eastern europe and it is shocking.

el diablo

Jorge Echoing Washcloth wrote:

Your years in ireland have not imporved your english either

this was an unnecessary comment, especially from a "mod". and you spelt "imporved" incorrectly. or were you just being funny...:rolleyes:

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Thanks el diablo....bernadette as you can see has not posted on boards since. And her IP address is the same as poster touting for business in hungary here before. This is against forum rules.

I will try to type more slowley in the future....

Back to the origional post however.....I think if you are comfortable getting dental work from a dentist you dont know purely on the basis of cost then fire ahead but dont expect your local dentist to help if anything goes wrong. If only 20 % of your front teeth needs replacing then get simple white fillings for about 200 euro. If you go to hungary you will definatly end up with 2 or even more crowns ehich you may not need in the first place. Remember these dentist cater for those who think only of money and as such they think only for money thenselves. Just my opinion though

el diablo

Jorge Echoing Washcloth wrote:

Thanks el diablo....bernadette as you can see has not posted on boards since. And her IP address is the same as poster touting for business in hungary here before. This is against forum rules.

I will try to type more slowley in the future....

Back to the origional post however.....I think if you are comfortable getting dental work from a dentist you dont know purely on the basis of cost then fire ahead but dont expect your local dentist to help if anything goes wrong. If only 20 % of your front teeth needs replacing then get simple white fillings for about 200 euro. If you go to hungary you will definatly end up with 2 or even more crowns ehich you may not need in the first place. Remember these dentist cater for those who think only of money and as such they think only for money thenselves. Just my opinion though

ok, I forgive you...;)

I was considering going to Budapest for dental treatment (crowns). I suppose I should do lots of research before I make a decision...:rolleyes:

Bernadett

Well.................
Don't you think i could be busy and i am not sitting infront of the computer every day just answer you back??????
When i have time for a PERSON (who just like to make fun of me )i will reply back.
Anyway,if my ENGLISH is soooooooo BAD how did you understand me?
And i only wanted to help people because few friend of mine went to Hungary with dental problem and they came back satisfied.
THEY DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE ALONE FROM THE BANK TO GET THEIR TEETH DONE.
I think,you must be dentist and you do not like it people go to Hungary fix there teeth.You loose business .

Big_G

Dentists don't like it because it brings the whole profession down in people's eyes when they travel there to get work done and come back and it has to be replaced, retreated, etc.

I would be delighted if I were a prosthodontist or implantologist with all the people going abroad for cheap treatment, because they come back here and invariably need specialist treatment to reverse damage done. That's a lot of money for Irish dentists.

I have heard (and this is second hand - I heard it from another dentist who had the benefit of examining a patient before and after treatment in Hungary) that dentistry isn't bad in Budapest, but that at least one of the dentists there is fond of doing unnecessary root canal treatment underneath crowns, which would shorten the lifespan of a tooth (normally root canal is meant to lengthen the lifespan of a tooth).

That's my response to you Bernadett. They might not have needed a loan (I might have to check my spelling there) to get their teeth treated in Hungary, but they certainly needed one to repair them when they got home.

In Ireland, as fitzgeme rightly pointed out, you are getting the benefit of highly trained, experienced (for the most part), and most importantly ETHICAL (again for the most part) dentistry. I have yet to see any ethically treated patients from Eastern Europe (particularly Romanian dentistry - invariably the worst dentistry I have ever seen - stuff that wouldn't have been done here in the 1920's - no joke), but to be fair I haven't seen any from Hungary or the Czech Republic.

In this life, you get what you pay for. Irish dentists may seem like a lot of money, but it's like the old boots economics - you could buy a crappy pair of boots for a tenner every year, or you could shell out two hundred euro and get ones that will last 20 years, and be more comfortable.

Also, I should point out that you will be likely to be treated by a native English speaker if you go to a dentist in Ireland. Verbal communication with a patient is fifty percent of diagnosis (symptoms), the other fifty percent being visual or tactile contact (signs).

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Very well said Big G. I have specialist training and as you rightly say every patient that goes away and gets suboptimal treatment is money in the bank for me...however I am a professional and wish people to get good treatment to save them pain....expense and time in the future.

Also welcome back Bernadette

hunnymonster

I've spent a couple of grand on Dentistry in Ireland in the last 18 months. About 10 % of my salary in that time but as The dentists here have said I was paying for quatlity work. Most of the procedures required several appointments and a lot of work. For example the current crown I'm having done took 4 appointments each at 2 week intervals
1. diagnostic appoinment when the tooth first broke including xrays and discussion of possible treatment
2. appointment 2 weeks later. I think the delay was to see if the tooth was behaving itself and there was a question of possible root canal. A temporary crown was fitted at this stage and various moulds taken.
3. I was back last week to have the crown fitted but the dentist wasn't entirely happy with the shape of it (I gather it's made somewhere else) so he sent it back to be readjusted.
4. not had this yeat but should be this week sometime.

So 4 hours of the Dentists time (and 3 of an assistant) plus materials (the crown is for a back tooth so we opted for metal as it's a funny shape/location & the dentist reckoned metal would give the longest term results), overheads.... 800 euro seems reasonable for this. I'm hoping MED2 and vhi will stump up some of the costs.


Would I consider dental treatment abroad, yes, but only if I thought there were more advanced techniques available there, not as a cost cutting measure. My teeth are too important to me for that.

Traumadoc

We got our cosmetic dental work done in Australia done before we left as we knew that the prices charged in Ireland were double the prices there- but its not the Irish dentists fault - everything is double in Ireland -the costs of setting up are so high, equipment staff, rent, insurance....
Generally the service in Ireland is first class- but you have to pay for it.

lomb

at the end of the day in any vibrant economy a two tier system is inevitable possibly even desirable as someone has to pay and why should the taxpayer pay for something that isnt especially necessary.
its a debateable point if anyone really needs teeth. personally i think people do but many patients might disagree when looking at cost/benefit ratio. bottom line there is cheap dentistry(extractions, quick fills, quick scale and polish etc, attempts at root canals might last a few years or longer, plastic dentures), good dentistry( quality crowns, quality fills, reasonable periodontal treatment, orthodontics when/if needed, chrome dentures ,fixed bridges etc to replace teeth, top of the line dentistry-(dental implants / bone grafts , perio treatment done to spec if needed like surgical access via a flap and application of a membrane, root canals done under magnification/lighting, fixed bridges, cosmetics including veneers)
trying to explain the above to patients is like scratching a blackboard:)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

hunnymonster wrote:

Would I consider dental treatment abroad, yes, but only if I thought there were more advanced techniques available there.

Thanks for your comments hunnymonster. I think that in this information age where Ireland leads the way in education and technology the days where "modern techniques" are not available here are long since gone. There is a lagre specialist community in Ireland for those who have the most complex treatment needs or wish the most ideal and predictable outcomes. There are also some super general dentists who can treat at an extrordinary level.

I think this is the same in most modern countries. Unfortunatly the publics level of knowledge has not yet caught up with their desire for advanced treatments.

lomb

Jorge Echoing Washcloth wrote:

Unfortunatly the publics level of knowledge has not yet caught up with their desire for advanced treatments.

Agree completely, i know from discussion with an irish general dentist in dublin working for last 35 years that most patients dont want a referrel to a periodontist to control their gum disease when they hear of cost and thats in a well to do area of dublin 6 ehre property is 1 mill +. he said he wanted to write a book on it

here is an example of what can be done with modern dentistry but would take about 1-2 years and about 50000ish euro
http://www.advanceddentistry.co.uk/cases/full-mouth-rehabilitation-dental-implants.htm
the options here are
cheap option or nhs option in uk- do nothing and solve pain by removing decayed roots, fob off about rest and/or plastic dentures accepting he will be loosing all teeth as bite has collapsed with loss of back teeth(this is what happens if you extract the molars/premolars), he is biting on his palate or roof of mouth.---cost from 50 euro -300 euro.
mid level option extraction of all teeth except the canines, cut canines down to roots after root canaling and install full dentures over gum and roots, helps keep some bone so more comfy long term---cost about 2000 euro+ for 2 sets of dentures inc 1 after everything has healed, root canals etc
very good option-extract everything then place implants, then implant supported dentures, so dentures being held in by 4-6 implants on top without palate covered by plastic, and 4 implants on bottom holding in lower denture. both are like false teeth held in by clip attachments to implants sunk into bone
gold option-implant/ prosthetic reconstruction as you can see here 50 grand, not many dentists can do this or have experiance in this. many dentists dont even believe this is possible believing it to be 'experimental' but it is:)
i think that sums dentistry up, its not one size fits all, different dentists cater to different patients, as they are different business models. typical uk nhs or irish medical card type practices cater to the 1st option ie high volume, they couldnt even contemplate understanding option 3/4.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Lomb thank for the post, indeed I agree with you 100%. The problem arises when those without training, skills, often minimal education or the will to do anything but bolster their gross revenue, start doing these complex treatments. Here is a case I am currently carrying out a 40,000 euro rehab on, similar to the one lomb linked to above....the patient had a really bad reconstruction done on the cheap (still cost around 4000 euro) at a dental practice in the north 6 years previously and when she attended she had multiple painful abcesses under the bridge....the bridge was broken..some bridge autments were fractured......the bridge had caused extensive wear of the lower teeth....it looked terrible and the porcelain/acrylic had cracked....catastrophy. I see these all the time...this will take 25-30 visits.....50 - 100 hours of chair time and is so complex it will involve several other specialists.

Dont get me wrong....you cant get great dentistry in the north...but this will be the price you pay if you do it quickly or cheaply.

Big_G

I think you mean "can" get good dentistry in the north.

lomb

hmm that looks nasty fitzgeme, what are u doing for her, looks like perio disease, decay under the crowns bridges, loss of posterior support, bruxing. looks like a regular nhs patient to me:(

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Treatment position - 3 months in a splint to get a repeatable CR
Perio - Full mouth root debridement, crown lengthening lower 3-3 with 2 months healing.
Opening the virtical dimension 2mm off a full mouth diagnostic wax up.
Onlay - lowermolars
Crowns - Lower 4-4
Implants - Lower 56/567 Upper 54/2356
Remove bridge and temporise.
Simgle crowns and everything left.
Endo retreatments on viable abutments by endodontits.

Oh the list goes on...and on....and on

lomb

nice plan, are you splitting the ridge on the lower right or doing an onlay. post the pics when you are done/as you are doing will be very interesting.

Wight

I'm gonna illustrate the problem with a little annecdote so humour me for two minutes.....

About 12 months ago I saw a patient from Poland who had been home for 3 weeks and had just returned to Ireland. About 2 days before she was due to fly back to Ireland she developed pain which required a root canal treatment of the tooth in question. She went to her own dentist who did the first half of the root treatment only. The dentist inisted the second part could NOT be done there and then, that it would have to be left for a bit. The patient brought with her x-rays and a letter from the polish dentist (Letter was in polish but the patient translated it sufficiently for me) outling what she had dnoe so far and asking if we could complete the root treatment.

The first part of the root treatment was executed superbly. The patient's other work was to an excellent standard also. This was a good dentist. However, note that the dentist refused point blank to complete it and insisted it be completed in Ireland as it was not appropriate to try and "rush" the job. I have no doubt this dentist would absolutley refuse to do a complex treatment plan involving crowns etc. in a week on a patient who's "popped over" for a holiday.

There are some good dentists in Central Europe, I've seen their work first hand. But I'll bet anything none of them are offering crowns in a week. That simply isin't compatible with delivering quality care, end of story...

Rigsby

Jorge Echoing Washcloth wrote:

Bernadette....whats your game...you cant post that its safer...safer than what. I see you signed up espically to tell us that information....I am suspicious that you may have a financial interest here. Your years in ireland have not improved your english either

"People in glass houses....". Your own english is not up to scratch. You spelt "especially" wrong.:rolleyes:

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Rigsby wrote:

"People in glass houses....". Your own english is not up to scratch. You spelt "especially" wrong.:rolleyes:

Thanks for that comment Rigsby it has really added to the discussion, and I look forward to more of this quality input from you in to future.

Wight...I agree there are good dentists in any country, these dentists however are not quick or cheap and dont need to take forign holidays makers on for cheap and dirty treatment.

peppermint

Fitzgeme, I can understand your frustration on some of the work you have seen being done by Hungarian dentists, but you have to keep in mind that not everyone works on the same quality in any profession. I myself am Hungarian, and it happened to me that I got a filling done by one dentist which had to be done by another dentist in half year's time, and it's perfect ever since... These cases happen everywhere.
On the education of dentists in Hungary, as far as I know, they have to go through the regular 5-6 years on medical university, and then they can start out on their specializing, and at the end of those years, they have to take an exam. Also, dentists are not allowed to perform surgical activities in Hungary, they could be sued for doing so as oral surgeons get specialist training above the regular dentistry one and again, it's a separate exam.
Another example that there are 'honest' dentists in Hungary as well: before we moved here, I visited an oral surgeon, because I had to have all my 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed, and he advised me not to do it there, as the time was very short before our move, and I didn't have proper time to rest and said that after such a surgery I should be resting for 5 days at least before flying. The exact same guy had my husband's wisdom teeth extracted as well, and he was satisfied with him.

Having all these said, I'm not going to fly home to have these done as I cannot afford the time spent in the air and having to take days off from work. Which leaves me in a situation slightly worrying: I have to get my wisdom teeth removed, I have to have orthodontist treatment to straighten my teeth, and my husband will need his implant replaced soon...
As you mentioned, no one likes to go to dentist s/he doesn't know, so from my perspective having to go to a dentist here is exactly the same as for an Irish person going to someone in Hungary.

And another thing is, imho the good Hungarian dentists are not the ones who advertise their services on the internet to 'markets' like Ireland, UK, etc., but the so-called local ones.

Big_G

I hope by needing his implant replaced soon you mean the crown on the implant. An implant should never really need replacing soon. Failure of an implant is not as predictable as that. If it's successful, it's usually successful forever.

I think the main point that has been established here is that quality treatment takes time. Time, as has been often pointed out, is money. Therefore cheap often = bad.

There are plenty of Eastern European dentists practicing in Ireland, from what I hear, btw.

The main thing I have a problem with in this country is "f-in dentists are rippin everyone off, I'm going to such and such an Eastern European country to have my teeth fixed." This is a poor attitude. Considering the level of professionalism, training, equipment costs and every other cost, I think dentistry is one of the few service areas in Ireland where a person can get value for money (compare to the legal profession, construction, trades, medical profession - who have very little overhead compared to dentistry, INSURANCE and many others). The cost of saving a tooth is really no cost at all imo.

lomb

Big_G wrote:

The main thing I have a problem with in this country is "f-in dentists are rippin everyone off, I'm going to such and such an Eastern European country to have my teeth fixed." This is a poor attitude. .

people complain about alot of things. they complain about stamp duty, doesnt stop them buying houses. they complain about vrt on cars, doesnt stop cars driving out of the showroom. they complain about....
you get fairly cynical fairly soon:)

RainyDay

It's worth remembering that most travel insurance policies specifically exclude cover for any travel undertaken for medical treatment. So any medical issues arising from treatment abroad or even routine issues like lost bags or missed connections would not be covered.

pjproby

i am sure that we have all met irish people who have has bad dental work performed by irish dentists so criticising foreign dentists strikes me as slightly rich particularly as the irish dental profession was a tightly controlled one for many years with entry to the profession restricted by the number of college places made available. This was the ultimate restrictive practice carried out by the professional classes to enrich themselves.

Big_G

1. Criticising foreign work has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of college places in Ireland to graduate dentists.
2. As lomb rightly pointed out, most people had to go to the UK just to get a job after 5 years of training here. Quite a few still do.
3.College places have only gone up in the last 15 years, especially with the new DDH.
4. To suggest that Irish dentistry limited the number of dentists who could work here is complete bunkum, as Ireland was for a long time one of the easiest entries in Europe for foreign dentists to qualify. It still is significantly easier in relative comparison to Canada, USA, Japan, etc.
5. Stay on topic.