The man whos arms exploded.

iregk

Just wondering if anyone happened to catch the doc on Discovery last night about Greg Valentino? Very interesting. I liked the way they did it by not just concentrating on him but on body building as a whole and looking at both sides of the steroids debate.

The young english chap was a gimp. His attitude typifies everything that is wrong with professional sport today. "I'm going to get to the top and I don't care what I have to do to get there. If its taking steroids then so be it!". Now some of you know that I'm a cyclist so you know how I feel about that line.

Anyone else happen to catch it?

EWheelChair

Some weird ****, i missed it myself but i did see the ads and i've read up alittle. What was the english lads name do you know?

justsomebloke

I have to say it was a very lob sided "debate" as the programme set out to vilive steroid use and no matter what the people you use steroids said caused their problem the show saif it was the drugs must have done it.

e.g. mick harte said, his poor eating habits, 13 hour working days and stress where major factors in his heart attack but the programme tried to suggest that it was only down to steroid use.
Also they tried to suggest the reason greg valentino got the infection was due to the steroids themselves where as he admits that he was using unclean needles to inject himself with (seriously this bloke seems like a bigger tool everyday) and this was a hell of a lot more likely to have caused the infection.

Even down to the music they used when they where talking about steroids was made to gve people the impression that steroids where pure evil.

And In relation to the english guy he at first said that he didn't think a majority of BBers where using roids and after he done some of his own research did he find out that most of them do some sort of cycling of roids so it was only at this point that he said he would do roids as he wanted to compete as a BB so you can't really blame a kid for wanting to play on a level playing field now

TerrorFirmer

I didn't like the way they continuously implied that it was solely down to the use of Steroids that caused the infection even though Valentino openly said he used unclean needles, which were obviously the source of the problem. Any user of needles, like just taking insulin or something, would still have gotten an infection in those circumstances....just not to that gross extent given the size of his arms.

Trying to self drain the wound of the infection though....that was stupid, stupid, stupid!

Degsy

Well in fairness you only hafta look at the guy to realise he's not the sharpest knife inthe drawer..

quozl

jsb wrote:

And In relation to the english guy he at first said that he didn't think a majority of BBers where using roids and after he done some of his own research did he find out that most of them do some sort of cycling of roids so it was only at this point that he said he would do roids as he wanted to compete as a BB so you can't really blame a kid for wanting to play on a level playing field now

I've heard that excuse from cheaters in a number of sports. It's a lie they tell themselves to convince themselves it's ok. If the competition bans a substance then you're cheating. If it doesn't then knock yourself out.

Anybody using banned substances in competition is cheating scum and is robbing those who don't cheat. There's no two ways about it.

justsomebloke

quozl wrote:

I've heard that excuse from cheaters in a number of sports. It's a lie they tell themselves to convince themselves it's ok. If the competition bans a substance then you're cheating. If it doesn't then knock yourself out.

Anybody using banned substances in competition is cheating scum and is robbing those who don't cheat. There's no two ways about it.

Oh I completly agree with this, however just because I agree with it doesn't make the problem go away. The problem is that in certain sports drug use is at best swept under the carpet or worse a general blind eye is turned by the governing body e.g. when was the last time you saw a story about a body builder being kicked out of a comp for using steroids and then compare this to other sports. So you can say that anyone who uses roids is cheating but when in a sport where you are competeing against competitors most of whom have cycled roids and you just going to sit back and never get anywhere in the sport no matter how naturally gifted you are, there is always goign to be incentive to use roids especially if nothing is done to try and stop you

STaN

didnt see it but...

ew

iregk

I think it is a very fair point the way they showed him reusing dirty needles and then said that it was roids that caused the infection. Any person with a brain cell could determin where it came from.

That said I though all the stuff about the heart and strokes was quite good. I did get the feeling though the way the magazine chap (promoter of roids) was very shifty and wouldn't look straight that he was in some way lying to himself about the effects they have had on his body.

justsomebloke

here is mick hart actually on sky news,

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-steroidchat_1309061400,00.html

you will notice that towards the end when the interview hasn't turned into the witch hunt they where looking for they to try and lay the blame of mick's heartattack on his use of drugs (I do believe that his use of so many different types of steroids may have effected him but that it was only a contributary factor that went along with the rest of his unhealthy lifestyle)

Pherekydes

That programme was the best advert against the use of steroids.

Premature death from heart attack, stroke and cancers increase dramatically with steroid use.

The steroid guru was in denial; he's hardly going to blame his steroid use for his heart attack, is he? All the factors he cited may have been contributory, but so may his steroid use.

Dragan

Slow coach wrote:

That programme was the best advert against the use of steroids.

Premature death from heart attack, stroke and cancers increase dramatically with steroid use.

I find that pretty funny to be honest. All the people they use in the show were idiots....Michalek was well know for going above and beyond in her use of steroids...what he was doing was not sane.

I also find it funny that anabolic compounds that can be prescribed to the terminally ill and effort to cure them can cause instant cancer/heart attacks in the healthy.

I suggest some study into the actually effect of anabolics on the body, as opposed to simply believing a show on tv.

quozl

Dragan wrote:

I also find it funny that anabolic compounds that can be prescribed to the terminally ill and effort to cure them can cause instant cancer/heart attacks in the healthy. .

There are a lot of drugs you give to sick people because they're already in such a bad state that they're worth the risk. It's faulty logic to think that because someone sick may benefit from a drug that it will also benefit, or even not harm, someone healthy.

Take EPO as an example of this. A drug that increases heamoglobin levels that are low due to cancer and chemotherapy but which when given to someone with healthy blood results in overly high haemoglobin levels that raise the chance of heart attack and stroke, particulalry while dehydrated.

Pherekydes

Dragan wrote:

I find that pretty funny to be honest. All the people they use in the show were idiots....Michalek was well know for going above and beyond in her use of steroids...what he was doing was not sane.

I also find it funny that anabolic compounds that can be prescribed to the terminally ill and effort to cure them can cause instant cancer/heart attacks in the healthy.

I suggest some study into the actually effect of anabolics on the body, as opposed to simply believing a show on tv.

Instant cancer? Or instant heart attacks? Where did you pick that up from? I find that pretty funny to be honest. I suggest some study into the actual effects of anabolics on the body, as opposed to simply making up drivel.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/Infofacts/Steroids.html

Honestly, there are too many studies linking steroid abuse to cancer, increased incidence of stroke, etc, to quote them all here. What parts of the show on TV did you not find credible?

t-ha

Slow coach wrote:

Honestly, there are too many studies linking steroid abuse to cancer, increased incidence of stroke, etc, to quote them all here.

OK, just quote/link to a few of the most important ones.

Pherekydes

Am I your slave? Google them yourself, if you're interested.

because_I_can

I dont know about studies but i do know of a sizable number of athletes that have taken sensible amount of AS and cycled them. They have had no health problems as much as 25 yrs later...

On the flip side you have idiots like this guy and huge jaws and gh guts of the top BBers. They are taking more in a week than most of the athletes ive known have taken in an entire career.

EPO did cause a spate of heart attacks among top cyclists when it first came out in the 80's. That seemed to stop after a year or so presumably because of different formula or dosage?

I have no problem with steroid users - i just dont want to have to compete with them.
Personally id never touch them.

is it not better to train well, eat well and look after yourself with your only vice being Anabolics as opposed to smoking 20 a day, eating crap and drinking the head off yourself regularly all of which definitely puts millions in their grave prematuraly every year?

t-ha

Slow coach wrote:

Am I your slave? Google them yourself, if you're interested.

The following is quoted directly from the fitness forum charter;

In addition, in debates try to be concise with your points, back them with existing literature if they are major points. Do not post unfounded allegations or state potential links if you cannot defend your points. I will not tolerate unfounded scaremongering.

I presume you get where I'm going with that.

quozl

T-Ha, there are two studies linked at the bottom of the page SlowCoach provided.
Google will provide you with more if you want them I'm sure.

My main issue with steroid abuse is not the damage it does to individuals but more the fact
that it is cheating. If there's prize money involved then it's basically theft. Theft not from the
organisers but from the person who you beat who isn't themselves cheating.

Pherekydes

t-ha wrote:

I presume you get where I'm going with that.

Dragan wrote:

I also find it funny that anabolic compounds that can be prescribed to the terminally ill and effort to cure them can cause instant cancer/heart attacks in the healthy.

How's about that for an unsubstantiated quote? Is that covered in the charter?

And I had linked to a study on another website. So I didn't make "unfounded allegations" or engage in "unfounded scaremongering".

peterk19

i didnt see the show but this report on this thread is pretty interesting, also Greg Valentino was taking Synthol which is not a steroid at all its an oil you inject into to muscle to make them look bigger

t-ha

Slow coach wrote:

How's about that for an unsubstantiated quote? Is that covered in the charter?

Yes, if you choose to take him up on it. I'm not going to, as I think it's quite clear that he was exaggerating in order to be funny, but you can if you want.

You made a claim that there was such a quantity of research published, showing links between steroids, cancer and strokes that they could not be quoted here. Presumably you meant we'ld be overwhelmed by the sheer number of papers (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suggested that you just link to some of the more important ones. I have no problem with you making your claim but I want you now to back up your statements. If you can't, then your argument is unsubstantiated, and you should not have stated the information as fact.

Slow coach wrote:

And I had linked to a study on another website. So I didn't make "unfounded allegations" or engage in "unfounded scaremongering".

You made the above claim about the quantity of research papers showing links between steroids and cancer, and steroids and strokes. The study you linked to was poorly referenced, with neither of the two papers used dealing with the claims you made.

Post the links to the studies you are taking your information from or make a retraction.

P.S. I don't use AAS or condone others to, I just hate misinformed argument.

iregk

peterk19 wrote:

i didnt see the show but this report on this thread is pretty interesting, also Greg Valentino was taking Synthol which is not a steroid at all its an oil you inject into to muscle to make them look bigger

According to Gred Valentino he has never used Synthol in his life. Only variants to AS so you can't really say that.

Also that link is quite good, it opened my eyes a bit. Quite ironic though that John Romano who promotes the use of Steroids so much is a columist for the magazine "All Natural Muscle".

peterk19

iregk wrote:

According to Gred Valentino he has never used Synthol in his life. Only variants to AS so you can't really say that.

Also that link is quite good, it opened my eyes a bit. Quite ironic though that John Romano who promotes the use of Steroids so much is a columist for the magazine "All Natural Muscle".

yea but it is very obvious he is using synthol and a hell of a lot of it, steroids dont give you unnaturally shaped muscles like thatand nobodies genetic makeup is that bad, look up images on the effects of synthol and it will prove i can just say that, it makes ur muscles look like a bag of oil, and at the end of the day would u admit to injecting oil into your arms.

oh and John Romano is the senior editor of "Muscular Development Magazine" not "All Natural Muscle"

t-ha

iregk wrote:

According to Gred Valentino he has never used Synthol in his life. Only variants to AS so you can't really say that.

Ronnie Coleman says he only uses protein, creatine and glutamine. Do you want to take his word for it too? Valentino's arms are synthol - he's the synthol poster-boy and advertises the stuff on his website.

iregk

peterk19 wrote:

oh and John Romano is the senior editor of "Muscular Development Magazine" not "All Natural Muscle"

Yes he is senior editor of Musclular development mag but also writes a colum in All Natural Muscle...

Guv

quozl wrote:

I've heard that excuse from cheaters in a number of sports. It's a lie they tell themselves to convince themselves it's ok. If the competition bans a substance then you're cheating. If it doesn't then knock yourself out.

Anybody using banned substances in competition is cheating scum and is robbing those who don't cheat. There's no two ways about it.

You have proof positive that these people in a number of sports cheated? Did they tell you or did you catch them taking the banned substance? Perhaps you saw their test results - sample A and sample B? Interested to know how you know they are cheaters?

Guv

because_I_can wrote:

On the flip side you have idiots like this guy and huge jaws and gh guts of the top BBers. They are taking more in a week than most of the athletes ive known have taken in an entire career.

is it not better to train well, eat well and look after yourself with your only vice being Anabolics as opposed to smoking 20 a day, eating crap and drinking the head off yourself regularly all of which definitely puts millions in their grave prematuraly every year?

It is a myth that the top bb'ers take insane amounts of gear - you will find nobobys in gyms all over the world who take more gear than professional bb'ers. The difference is that the top bb'ers are genetically gifted and for the most part work the asses off to get into shape and train harder and longer than the nobodies. A good example for me is the Maryland Muscle Machine Kevin Levrone who was on gear for at most 5-6 months of the year and gained 20-30lbs before standing on stage at the olympia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlZdX1YtcPo

Louie Simmons of Westside Barbell Club had a great quote: "I've got a bottle of Test and a double layer denim bench shirt sitting in the back of my gym and I've yet to see it bench 100 pounds." The lifter is still doing the work, man!

iregk

Guv wrote:

You have proof positive that these people in a number of sports cheated? Did they tell you or did you catch them taking the banned substance? Perhaps you saw their test results - sample A and sample B? Interested to know how you know they are cheaters?

I don't think he was specifically saying that this person or that person is cheating and I know they are. I think it was more of a general quote. I.e. Floyd Landis for one claimed that its ok he took epo because a lot of the other guys are on it. In other words I dont feel guilty and I dont think I cheated because so many others are doing it.

quozl

Guv wrote:

You have proof positive that these people in a number of sports cheated? Did they tell you or did you catch them taking the banned substance? Perhaps you saw their test results - sample A and sample B? Interested to know how you know they are cheaters?

Did you bother to read the post I was replying to? We're talking about SELF-CONFESSED users of PEDs claiming they only did it because everybody else does it. Now admittedly they could be lying that they've used PEDs but that seems a bit unlikely.

There's a few athletes out there I personally feel the balance of probability is they're abusing PEDs but I don't go around accusing people. Because you can't be sure. This is another reason drug cheats are scum, they bring suspicion on those who haven't cheated.

Dragan

Slow Coach, at the risk of sounding a little bit tired, which i am, twas a heavy weekend i fear.....

Stop being a dick. I assume you watched the show and that is why you are comenting on it? If you had done you would have seen the Steve Michelak says the following

"The second you take an anabolic steroid....the second you let one of them things into your body......cancer....strokes....heartdisease" - now then, thats a paraphrase, but what he said was very much along the same lines.

Slow coach wrote:

Instant cancer? Or instant heart attacks? Where did you pick that up from? I find that pretty funny to be honest. I suggest some study into the actual effects of anabolics on the body, as opposed to simply making up drivel.

As such, i am not making up drivel, merely making a sly reference to the contents of the show....which you were backing up yes? I believe you said

Slow coach wrote:

That programme was the best advert against the use of steroids.

So on one hand, the show was excellent...but you also refer to one of the main points from the show, from one of the shows main subjests to be drivel?

The whole show is drivel....now doubt there are some MAJOR valid points behind not using Anabolic Steroids....of course there are, but my problem is sensationalistic journalism like that show, taking on two major players from the scene who everyone connected with the scene will tell you are lose cannons, and not exactly typical prototypes of a bodybuilder.

If you lack the mental fortitude, or even the desire, to connect a comment about a program to the actual program itself, the comment itself having occured within the program, then thats your business i suppose. However, if you have jumped into this post and not even seen the program in question then i find it hard to understand why?

Pherekydes

Dragan wrote:

Stop being a dick.

This is enough for me.

Good night, buddy.

BreadBoard

OMG just had a look on youtube at this idiot. Nearly got sick watching him injecting himself.

Degsy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yT8GPG7978


no mention of synthol though..not a balanced point of view methinks

Degsy

look at this halfwit..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc-qPqkxCsU

Dragan

Slow coach wrote:

This is enough for me.

Good night, buddy.

Thats a shame, i assume you either got a school boy upset, or simply read the read of my post and thought "Dammit, the verb he used to describe my behaviour was completely accurate" and decided not to post.

Slow Coach, i suggest a very simple action. You either watched the show or you did not.

If you did, then you missed my reference to what Steve said, and thats your issue not mine.

You then started harping on about "unsubstantiated quotes" as if i had burned a copy of the bible while killing a new born foal.

I can only apologise for giving the readers of this thread ( and i was right to do so it would seem, in everyones case but yours ) then credit for having the mental fortitude to pick up on my reference to one of the main points of the show.

If you didn't get it then thats your hard candy, not mine amigo.

If you did not watch the show, then fair enough, i can understand why you would misinterpret what i had said and go off on one. However, without having seen the show you should not have partaken in the thread.

Simple.

t-ha

Dragan wrote:

If you did, then you missed my reference to what Steve said, and thats your issue not mine.

Sorry - I didn't pick up on it either till you pointed it out.

OK, Dragan's substantiated his comment - I'm still waiting for you to do the same...

mloc

Injecting steroids into your arms aren't going to make them look like that. He is clearly using Synthol, whether he admits it or not. The guy looks ridiculous.

The fact remains, there has never in history been one mortality proved to be attributed to steroid use. There are, of course, risks and side effects, but in the majority of cases a sensible individual using correct dosing and administration techniques along with regular health check ups would have little to worry about.

Pherekydes

Dragan wrote:

Thats a shame, i assume you either got a school boy upset, or simply read the read of my post and thought "Dammit, the verb he used to describe my behaviour was completely accurate" and decided not to post.

Surely you mean noun. In the context. i.e. You are a something. The word something here is a placeholder for a noun. I wouldn't be arsed answering to someone who resorts to childish taunts and namecalling but anyway...

As regards the show, I saw it and I got the reference mentioned, but he's hardly going to be an authority on steroids and cancer, now is he?

Pity, Dragan. I tagged you as one of the straight-talking good guys. But it appears I got you wrong.

thirtyfoot

because_I_can wrote:

i do know of a sizable number of athletes that have taken sensible amount of AS and cycled them.

Thats interesting, are these Irish athletes and if so are they in competitive sports, ie, olympic sports. I can only speak for track and field but I would know or have known lotst of the sprint/power athletes and training groups in the past 10 years and I'd say there is zero drug use in Ireland in that sport. There was one guy, a multi-eventer and I think he did powerlifting too, who was caught but other than him I can't remember anyone (he wasn't very good by the way!)

Dragan

Slow coach wrote:

Pity, Dragan. I tagged you as one of the straight-talking good guys. But it appears I got you wrong.

To be honest I cannot overly worry about what people on the board might think of me. All I can do is post what I post and people will take it as they will. In fairness Slow Coach, I don't think we have ever even interacted in a thread up until this point so there is not even a quasi-almost-friendship that can build up between poster on a message board, or even a vague familiarity.

In fairness, it's like being stopped walking down the street by someone you have never met who tells you they "used to think you were cool." Your never really gonna care too much.

Once again, I didn't call you anything, merely pointed out that you were acting like something, which has now been enforced by the fact you did see the show and you did pick up on my quote. I even quoted what he had said in a context of disagreement and you still decided to hinge on that, twist it around and imply that I had somehow pulled some statement of fact out of the air and said "Look at this, for it is Truth". I was making fun of the show, you apparently knew this, yet somehow decided to run with it to your own ends. Fair enough, good on ya.

Also, I don't think this thread particularly disputes my reputation as a straight shooter. And I never really claimed to be a "nice" guy. I am what I am, people like me or they don't. C'est la vie.

iregk

I think the argument has run its course. Time to leave it there lads. The last thing we want is to turn a civilised forum into something like the football forum where we start attacking each other over grammer and spelling...

t-ha

iregk wrote:

I think the argument has run its course. Time to leave it there lads. The last thing we want is to turn a civilised forum into something like the football forum where we start attacking each other over grammer and spelling...

Grammar

oh lordy - I amuse myself so...

Dragan

iregk wrote:

I think the argument has run its course. Time to leave it there lads. The last thing we want is to turn a civilised forum into something like the football forum where we start attacking each other over grammer and spelling...

Actually, everyone always mentions the football fourm as a place where maybe things get a little out of hand!!! I think i'm glad i don't like football!!

iregk

t-ha wrote:

Grammar

oh lordy - I amuse myself so...

God dam it the one post I had to get perfect and I got the spelling wrong!!!!!:D

p.s. I don't think lordy is actually a word;)

t-ha

iregk wrote:

p.s. I don't think lordy is actually a word;)

Coloquialism.

g'em

t-ha wrote:

Colloquialism

iregk

hahaha love it gem.

t-ha

That's not how we say coloquialism where I'm from...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Dragan

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Andy Gray says football.