Smart going belly up?

tba

ah fook it, why can't his **** be simple?

Guerrilla Radio

Hey Matt- Dublin

You seem to have a propensity for the over dramatic there.
I also have a friend in Smart and they are definitely not
going into liquidation ,nor have the staff being told to clear their
desks.

This sounds like another nasty agent of Eircom polluting the waves
with it's disgusting propaganda

ellybabes

The worst thing is that this is barely goign to register on tonight's news - RTE had asked me to be interviewed about the whole thing, and now they've pulled the plug as "the whole news is going to be about BertieGate" apparently... Eircon couldn't have picked a better day to pull a stunt like this...

JJDoherty

ellybabes wrote:

...RTE had asked me to be interviewed about the whole thing, and now they've pulled the plug as "the whole news is going to be about BertieGate" apparently... Eircon couldn't have picked a better day to pull a stunt like this...

Exactly, a perfect day for Eircom to do this and be pretty sure it would be buried with the other news that is going on. Sorry but can I ask why RTE had asked to interview you?

dub45

Blub2k4 wrote:

The type that ADSL2+ doesn't have maybe?

ADSL2+ has nothing got to do with contention:rolleyes:

ellybabes

JJDoherty wrote:

Sorry but can I ask why RTE had asked to interview you?

I'm an affected customer and I've done some bits on TV and radio recently on other technology related stuff

DonkeyStyle \o/

God damn it anyway... more fúcking downtime and bullshít looking for a new provider.
I wasn't expecting to have to do this twice in the same year.
Already spent a month without a net connection waiting to be connected to Smart in the first place.
Oohohoh I'm about to get very angry... first comes the laughing though... lol!!!

ellybabes wrote:

A lot of us don't want to go back! And chances are after the "leaving message" that I left for Eircom, they won't want me back either!

Yep, I've given enough money to eircom over the years... I'm not going back if I can help it.

JJDoherty

ellybabes wrote:

I'm an affected customer and I've done some bits on TV and radio recently on other technology related stuff

Oh, alright, thanks for getting back. Still no news or statements from either side yet!

jd

Blub2k4 wrote:

The type that ADSL2+ doesn't have maybe?

ADSL2 can be contended, flavour of dsl has nothing to do with contetion

bk

ellybabes wrote:

Eircon couldn't have picked a better day to pull a stunt like this...

I'm suspicious that Eircom timed this exactly to happen today. They knew that on any other day it would be the top news item. This is a tactic often employed by PR departments.

leirbag

there are only 12,000 taxi drivers and they managed to bring dublin to a standstill some weeks back. somehow this strikes me as a much bigger issue.

I am one who will never again use Eircom, firstly for the exhorbitant prices for every service including the ones i was billed for but never signed up for. secondly because i believe that the root of Smart Telecoms financial woes is based in the number portability issue. I myself baulked at changing a number which i had for years but when i moved house and exchange i changed.

It took 4 attempts because eircom would not play ball but when i eventually got the service i was delighted.... 50% more bandwidth, cheaper calls etc.

however there can't be smoke without fire and the reality is that smart should have spent less on marketing and paid eircom to ensure the service. I feel sorry for the people who lost their jobs in this debacle which could have been handled on much better by all parties.

What i would like to see is that all affected parties gather some momentum and march up to dail eireann and demand that the minister for telecomunications put in place an emergency solution for those who rely on smart for their livelyhood and that the 45,000 customers stop being treated like cattle to be bought or sold to the highest bidder. the solution is that each Smarttelecom customer should be given the choice of service in areas where this exists and any setup costs be borne by our super flush government we are the taxpayer and i want some of my taxback to change supplier if neccessary.

I would prefer that eircom stop the "it's our ball" attitude and arrive at a reasonable agreement given that 4M euro is the corporate equivalent of a cup of coffee but failing this we should march on the government and lash them out of it using all the useless netopia and huawai routers modems etc that we have accumulated from this pair of messers.

once the spat is sorted then comreg could go about the business of perhaps regulating the industry and the monoplies commision (?) could also do their job:mad:

probe

jor el wrote:

Been with BT for broadband for three years now at two addresses and never had a problem with contention. I've had speeds from 512k/128k up to the current 3M/128k and have always had pretty much max speeds up and down.

If you were "with BT", there is a 95%+ chance that you were really with eircom. BT have only unbundled a handful of lines and rely on eircom to provide DSL service. You will have had the exact same contention ratio and other characteristics as a direct customer of eircom!

The only real competition to eircom on DSL at the moment is Magnet. Virtually everyone else is just re-selling eircom's wholesale product.

.probe

probe

peepingtom wrote:

I moved to BT when that offer came in ... its fantastic value for money (compared with other irish suppliers) but still over the odds compared to the UK market. BT will probably be the only one to survive and be a serious competitor to Eircom. However at the moment BT havent really got their act together regarding telephone support for broadband etc.

BT has never competed with eircom. BT's Dublin office used to be located at eircom's head office at St Stephen's Green West!

In terms of broadband they are just re-selling eircom's broadband. eircom love them. They do all the donkey work of billing and collecting money for eircom, and help create the illusion of competition.

BT typically add-on a voice calls package to supplement their margin. An intelligent broadband customer doesn't need this because they can use VoIP and call the world for free or at most 1 or 2c a minute on a PAYG basis.

.probe

uncle_sam_ie

leirbag wrote:

What i would like to see is that all affected parties gather some momentum and march up to dail eireann and demand that the minister for telecomunications put in place an emergency solution for those who rely on smart for their livelyhood and that the 45,000 customers stop being treated like cattle to be bought or sold to the highest bidder. the solution is that each Smarttelecom customer should be given the choice of service in areas where this exists and any setup costs be borne by our super flush government we are the taxpayer and i want some of my taxback to change supplier if neccessary.


:

You might even be joined with 40% of the population that can't even get DSL. Our useless Minister needs to go and Comreg should be abolished.

Sir Oxman

gadgetman496 wrote:

Should all Smart customers cancel their "Direct Debit" mandates immediately?

Let's face it, nobody had the decency to notify us we were being disconnected. :mad:

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have just done so on B.365.
I love my Smart BB but I don't want money disappearing from my account for a non-existant service. I will more than gladly pay by CC if I hear they've got the all-clear.
No way am I going back to eircon and line rental and download limits.
I don't know the technicalities of what's happened (bar the obvious bill outstanding) but if Smart can pay that and survive with just their BB offerings then Comreg/The Govt should help facilitate this immediately.

The small market shrinks again.

boomer_ie

art wrote:

Just checked and I can defintiely make out going calls on my Smart line but just discovered that I can't get incoming calls at all - the message on my mobile says "Network Busy" when I try ringing home?

Funny, i get that ringing Smarts 01 number chasing them for money they owe me....

machalla

Item was just on RTE news about Smart. They cut off a disabled lads BB and phone without warning of course. As he said embarassed him as a friend couldn't contact him and sent him a text asking if he had paid his phone bill. Nice to get a bit of spin in there but more mention of smart not paying bills than Eirscum doing their best to kill off competition.

According to Eirscum they requested payment from Smart 19 times. Not much else in the report except that any staff out in Smart responded with "no comment" to reporters questions.

bardcom

It strikes me that moving away from eircom just maintains the illusion of competition. If eircom had close to 100% market share, then Comreg and the government would be forced to fix the system. No more crap wholesaling and uncompetitive offerings. So my advice - everyone move to eircom. Leave BT, perlico, et al, behind until LLU becomes a reality, with full number portability and full choice.

Just my 2c (as a Smart Telecom customer)

themonk

surely this is very calculated move by eircom ... surely any business requires credit with its main suppliers of goods services ( eircom lines , cps etc ) and that debts would be cleared as a neccessity in order to continue operations ... will eircom reconnect service and use this as a gaffe to pay up > > ? or is it a low blow to crush the opponent

jor el

probe wrote:

If you were "with BT", there is a 95%+ chance that you were really with eircom. BT have only unbundled a handful of lines and rely on eircom to provide DSL service. You will have had the exact same contention ratio and other characteristics as a direct customer of eircom!

Since I'm a BT home customer, there's a 100% chance it's Eircom bitstream Contention has never been an issue though.

The only real competition to eircom on DSL at the moment is Magnet. Virtually everyone else is just re-selling eircom's wholesale product.

.probe

Indeed, but the wholesale products don't make as much revenue for Eircom as the direct to customer products. As such, the re-sellers do take custom and money (particularly in phone call costs) from Eircom.

Even Smart customers are paying Eircom in some way as LLU providers pay Eircom rent on an unbundled line. I guess you can't lose when you own all the infrastructure.

Blackdragon

Well Lads it looks like we wont get a straight answer from either Smart Telecom or Eircom today - RTE A nd Sky news Ireland both said no agreement has been made and none of the sides have commented any further - Guess we waiting untill tomorrow - Does anyone know when they gonna shut off my broadband?

themonk

Blackdragon wrote:

Does anyone know when they gonna shut off my broadband?

Do eircom earn money from smart LLU broadband customers ? if so would broadband be affected and what about smart business customers ? apparently there are 60 corporate customers for business voice and data

probe

themonk wrote:

surely this is very calculated move by eircom ... surely any business requires credit with its main suppliers of goods services ( eircom lines , cps etc ) and that debts would be cleared as a neccessity in order to continue operations ... will eircom reconnect service and use this as a gaffe to pay up > > ? or is it a low blow to crush the opponent

The fact that Smart has built up such "indebtedness" with eircom is a function of eircom's monopoly. Smart look alikes in France (eg www.free.fr) offer free unlimited phone calls within France and typically to 30 other countries, as well as up to 28 Mbits/sec broadband and a cable TV replacement offering far more channels than any cable company in Ireland - all for under €30 a month. And make a good profit on the business. Because the market in which they operate in properly regulated.

Smart's financial position was even more messed up by their inability to deliver on loop unbundling because eircom did everything they could to erect barriers. As I suggested in another forum, the Competition Authority has power to take action against monopolists under criminal law. If they presented a good case before the courts, the company may be found guilty of a criminal act, and it would then be up to the criminal assets bureau to recover any "ill-gotten gain" made.

Not that this would be of much help to the investors in Smart who lost millions or the business and residential customers of Smart who are largely without service today. But at least it would show eircom and their new owners B&B that they won’t be allowed get away with this codology for long.

There are further questions to be answered about the pressure eircom is reported to have put on ComReg to cancel Smart’s 3G mobile phone license, and give it to eircom. I seem to recall that Denis O’Brien’s ESAT telecom was in a similar financial position before it was granted a mobile license for the Digifone network.

As it stands, eircom has about 94% of the DSL broadband market (i.e. only 15,000 lines have been unbundled, and eircom is about to snap most of these up too!)

probe

probe

jor el wrote:

Even Smart customers are paying Eircom in some way as LLU providers pay Eircom rent on an unbundled line. I guess you can't lose when you own all the infrastructure.

Yes but the LLU fee is simply to cover the local loop between your premises and the service provision node - far cheaper than buying the wholesale package. Eircom is entitled to some payment to cover the cost of maintaining the line. But they are not entitled to 95% or even 50% of the market. The aim should be that no one company holds more than about 30%.

People would not tolerate it if Dunnes had 95% or even 50% of the grocery market. Why tolerate this position in the DSL market?

.probe

The_Hustler

All my services have been gone since yesterday

probe

themonk wrote:

apparently there are 60 corporate customers for business voice and data

There are a lot more than 50 corporate customers involved - not to mention about 1,000 schools who are contracted for Smart broadband.

I put a list up of the geographic phone numbers allocated to Smart (link below). This is one big mess for thousands of customers which will take weeks to sort out - if eircom is allowed to get its way.

.probe

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054998153&page=3

Blackdragon

The_Hustler wrote:

All my services have been gone since yesterday

What part of Ireland you living in? Im guessing all your services include Broadband also:(

The_Hustler

Yep, I can't make emergency calls, I can't receive calls, nothing works. The Broadband just says "cable disconnected".

I'm living in Dublin.

rockal

According to Smart techie "we are still here and broadband is still working for everyone" as of 7pm

Blackdragon

The_Hustler wrote:

Yep, I can't make emergency calls, I can't receive calls, nothing works. The Broadband just says "cable disconnected".

I'm living in Dublin.

That sucks - I dont have there phone service just have there broadband connection but so far i have not been affected but im expecting my connection to drop any minute.

I HATE EIRSCUM:mad: