Smart going belly up?

Gadgetman496

Eircom were at my house at 4.30pm today. I was not there but I had my wife well versed. She just told them that they would have to talk to me.

I'm one of those people that never lost my broadband connection, their obviously out to get all Smart customers back.

These guys are hungry, so I suspect they will return, at which point I will have a long, long, long chat with them. My tactic will be to take up as much of their time & resources before I do eventually show them the door.

I'm bad, real bad am I.

Ardent

Diver79 wrote:

Yes we know, Smart didnt pay their bills. We get it...

Would you not think it would have been more beneficial for Eircom to work with Smart in an effort to get the issue sorted?

Also, do you agree that the actions taken by Eircom were made in a deliberate attempt to wipe out its competitor?

I for one think so anyway.

I sent off a fairly scathing email to Comreg early last week about the whole disconnection fiasco - I was pretty angry at the time - and got just back a lengthy reply where they maintain their hands were tied due to contractual commercial obligations between Smart and Eircom. To quote:

ComReg wrote:

Because the ongoing difficulties were of a contractual and commercial nature, ComReg legally could not make any comment in advance as doing so would and could expose the regulator. Comreg has no remit in the area of commercial contracts made between operators.

I think Comreg need to be endowed with more powers if this is the case. Personally, I think it's unacceptable for 45,000 consumers to be disconnected overnight without warning over a payment dispute. Proper regulation should aim to prevent this type of thing occurring IMO.

Gadgetman496

Isn't it sweet...

mbur

An analogy

Imagine we are in the air travel business.

Smart airlines fleet of modern aircraft are all in midflight and full of passengers when eircom air decide to take their punative action. Now because of eircoms monopoly position it happens that all pilots on all airlines are employed by eircom air. At the secretly arranged time all the pilots on these smart flights are instructed to drain the fuel tanks and to parachute out of the aircraft. Eircom air have already done a deal with the government run support services (radio and radar) to ignore any Smart air flights distress calls.

By some miracle and heroic action by Smart employed cabin crew all flights manage to do belly landings into the sea. There is no loss of life. This is amazing considering that there are now 45,000 ex-passengers bobbing up and down in the sea. Now the recently privatised rescue services swing into action. The swimming passengers are told they can only be rescued if they sign up (now) to 12 month contracts for 'aviation services'. The ex-passengers find it hard to understand this megaphone message over the roar of the chopper blades.

About 12,000 passengers who had BB class seats realise that they can swim to land and within one and one half days all are on dry land. The Smart airline rescue chopper would rescue everyone else for free but smart are instructed by eircom air and the government that they can only rescue a small minority of the customers and if they do eircom want 120 euro for every passenger rescued.

Now that seems fair.

Gadgetman496

Good on ya mbur....;)

digitaldr

Interesting article in Sunday Business Post

Dellas

Hmmm are Imagine making good profits??? What are they like???

mbur

Dellas wrote:

Hmmm are Imagine making good profits??? <snip>

At those prices they have to be..

Whatever way you look at it this stealth attack by eircom was an almighty blunder. Just consider what has happened to what might have happened if they had been a bit bolder and served say a months notice on comreg of their intentions. Comreg and the govt would have put together some ill though out plan like the one fine gael are proposing whereby all smart customers get told (probably at smarts expense) to shift off or else. The moment this deal is made (smart can only watch this happen) Smart are gone from the LLU business (or whatever).

As it is Smart still have assets in place, have a handy and possibly profitable LLU product and a loyal customer base. Lets not forget that they have already scored a useful p.r. advantage with the +3meg rollout. Eircom on the other hand have made a lot of enemies and still have a real competitor on their doorstep.

A long time ago in a small country there was a locally owned tyre factory which had the Firestone franchise. The lions share of the tyre market in that country was held by the Dunlop group. The Dunlop group decided to start a price war and put the little guy out of business. So for about about five years tyres were incredibly cheap in that little country.

The little guy played along with the big guys and matched their prices for as long as he could. When he was down to his last Rolls Royce he made his move. He phoned mr Bridgestone in Japan (the real biggie of the tyre business) and said "Wanna buy a tyre factory? I'll run it for you." So yer man sold his business, Dunlop realised that they were now well out classed in the deep pockets department and tyre price shot back up to their normal level.. Luckily for mr Dunlop the japs wanted to make a profit today and didn't much hold with this pricewar stuff.

Right now I'd say that despite its dificulties Smart Telecom looks to be a pretty attractive buy to any number of the bigger players. This imagine deal won't impress eircom much but it is a clue to what may eventually happen.

The real pity is that its the little guys (who made the smart brand what it is) who are the most vulnerable right now.

sayonara

dub45

mbur wrote:

An analogy

Imagine we are in the air travel business.

Smart airlines fleet of modern aircraft are all in midflight and full of passengers when eircom air decide to take their punative action. Now because of eircoms monopoly position it happens that all pilots on all airlines are employed by eircom air. At the secretly arranged time all the pilots on these smart flights are instructed to drain the fuel tanks and to parachute out of the aircraft. Eircom air have already done a deal with the government run support services (radio and radar) to ignore any Smart air flights distress calls.

By some miracle and heroic action by Smart employed cabin crew all flights manage to do belly landings into the sea. There is no loss of life. This is amazing considering that there are now 45,000 ex-passengers bobbing up and down in the sea. Now the recently privatised rescue services swing into action. The swimming passengers are told they can only be rescued if they sign up (now) to 12 month contracts for 'aviation services'. The ex-passengers find it hard to understand this megaphone message over the roar of the chopper blades.

About 12,000 passengers who had BB class seats realise that they can swim to land and within one and one half days all are on dry land. The Smart airline rescue chopper would rescue everyone else for free but smart are instructed by eircom air and the government that they can only rescue a small minority of the customers and if they do eircom want 120 euro for every passenger rescued.

Now that seems fair.

Or for those who talk of an open market - imagine if the Government had merged Aer Rianta and Aer lingus and then sold them off? And the combined company in a dispute with another airlne suddenly said 'Sorry lads you aint using our runways?''

simp

ComReg facing questions over Smart Telecom debacle
10/10/2006 - 07:21:55

The Communications Regulator is due to appear before a Dáil committee today to answer questions about the Smart Telecom debacle.

More than 40,000 of the company's customers had some of their services withdrawn by Eircom last week because Smart had not been paying its line rental bills.

The Oireachtas Committee on Communications is expected to question ComReg today about whether it was aware of Smart's financial difficulties and if it could have alerted customers to the situation.

It also wants assurances that such an incident will not happen again.

http://breaking.tcm.ie/2006/10/10/story280282.html

Ardent

simp wrote:

ComReg facing questions over Smart Telecom debacle

Proper order.

Sponge Bob

simp wrote:

It also wants assurances

an Assurance from Comreg is as good as Reusable Toilet Paper .

art

miju wrote:

good hard effective business by ericom IMHO which most businesses would more than likely do themselves if given half the opportunity

So the fact that Eircon has prevented me from being able to make emergency 999 calls for several days is just cool, good hard business ethic. **** the little people afterall, it's just business... :rolleyes:

dub45

art wrote:

So the fact that Eircon has prevented me from being able to make emergency 999 calls for several days is just cool, good hard business ethic. **** the little people afterall, it's just business... :rolleyes:

And its good hard business that an essential part of the nations infrastructure can be uses as part of a business dispute by a private company.

Great stuff in this open market!!!!!:rolleyes:

MOH

Ardent wrote:

I for one think so anyway.

I sent off a fairly scathing email to Comreg early last week about the whole disconnection fiasco - I was pretty angry at the time - and got just back a lengthy reply where they maintain their hands were tied due to contractual commercial obligations between Smart and Eircom.

At least you got a reponse, they just ignored me. Any one else get a reply from ComReg?

Hamilcar

dub45 wrote:

And its good hard business that an essential part of the nations infrastructure can be uses as part of a business dispute by a private company.
Great stuff in this open market!!!!!:rolleyes:

The infrastructure belongs to eircom, fairly purchased from the democratically elected Government of the day.

The 'Nation' can always buy it back if they so wish. I'm sure eircom would be amenable to a fair offer.

bounty

the whole system is rigged to make comreg powerless, our government is shjte

po0k

Hamilcar wrote:

The infrastructure belongs to eircom, fairly purchased from the democratically elected Government of the day.

The 'Nation' can always buy it back if they so wish. I'm sure eircom would be amenable to a fair offer.

Yes.

And I am Jeebus.

art

Save me Jeebus.

I still can't make calls

miju

art wrote:

So the fact that Eircon has prevented me from being able to make emergency 999 calls for several days is just cool, good hard business ethic. **** the little people afterall, it's just business...

yeah about the while 999 thing i'm suprised no-ones brough it up yet

surely given the fact that practically everyone in the country has a mobile these days you could just use a mobile to call 999????

dub45

miju wrote:

yeah about the while 999 thing i'm suprised no-ones brough it up yet

surely given the fact that practically everyone in the country has a mobile these days you could just use a mobile to call 999????

Well sure if everyone has a mobile lets close Eircom down - obviously Eircom thought the power of the landline was pretty important if they chose to use it the way that they did - and there are plenty of people who dont have mobiles - lots of them older and poorer in case you had not noticed.

watty

20% of folk now don't have landline for the reason of expensive line rental and Mobile. Even though we are one of the more costly areas in Europe, my Mobile bill is always less than Eircom Line rental. (PAUG).

constitutionus

watty wrote:

20% of folk now don't have landline for the reason of expensive line rental and Mobile. Even though we are one of the more costly areas in Europe, my Mobile bill is always less than Eircom Line rental. (PAUG).

exactly why i shifted to smart in the first place. i only wanted broadband so i didn't get affected by this issue thank god (though i didn't seem to get the upgrade either!) and i use my mobile for phoning but to be honest i text more than anything else and thanks to 3 its only costing me 5c ago.

im absolutely delighted to have nothing to do with eircom what so ever. damn kip was screwing me for 100 euro every two months for dial up! and that was only after 6pm to midnight.

if they actually put as much effort into providing a good value for money service as they do trying to screw over competitors with dirty tricks campaigns they mightn't be hemorrhaging as many customers as they are!

dub45

Hamilcar wrote:

The infrastructure belongs to eircom, fairly purchased from the democratically elected Government of the day.

The 'Nation' can always buy it back if they so wish. I'm sure eircom would be amenable to a fair offer.

Ownership of something doesnt necessarily confer the right to do with the owned asset what one likes.

For instance lots of joe public own cars fairy purchased and not only fairly purchased but which necessitate the ongoing payment of lots of lolly to the Govt to continue using said purchase - however there are many restrictions on the use of the fairly purchased car and I dont think the gardai would take too kindly to using the fairly purchased car to block the premises of someone who owed joe public money.

Theres lots of restrictions on what you can do with your own house - even if you own a square in a nice area of Dublin you cannot invite a few friends to park their cars there or the judge will be very harsh on you.

but when it comes to the nations communications system ah sure do what you like with it to further your own interests:rolleyes:

PixelTrawler

Interesting to hear ComReg call themselves toothless
http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1010/smart.html

Apparently they asked Eircom to provide a reasonable period of notice. Eircom simply told ComReg to go **** themselves and did what they wanted...

Great....

Whos in charge, eh?

skywalker

miju wrote:

yeah about the while 999 thing i'm suprised no-ones brough it up yet

surely given the fact that practically everyone in the country has a mobile these days you could just use a mobile to call 999????

And the fact that "practically" everyone has a mobile, that makes it ok does it?

art

miju wrote:

yeah about the while 999 thing i'm suprised no-ones brough it up yet
surely given the fact that practically everyone in the country has a mobile these days you could just use a mobile to call 999????

That has to be the lamest thing I've ever read on the internet. Congrats.

Liam Byrne

I was wondering when someone would bring up the subject of mobile phones and emergency calls, but that wasn't the way I expected it to come up.

What I expected to come up was the fact that NO MATTER WHAT (unpaid bill, no pay-as-you-go credit - even NO SIM; i.e. WHATEVER) a mobile operator will not block you from making emergency calls.....

eircom, however, do whatever they damn-well like.

P.S. Now that Smart are definitely not going belly up (in fact, they are improving their service and now probably have the most loyal subscribers in the business), is there any chance that someone might change the thread title so that it's more obvious that it's a question ?

Jor

Got a reply from Fine Gael to the e-mail I sent them, saying that they should focus a bit more on what is affecting ordinary people instead of flgging the bertie thing to death.

Thanks for your email.

While the issue of standards in public office affects us all, we have also
never taken our eye off the other issues that are holding this country
back. There follows a statement from our party on the issue of telecoms
competition - an issue of particular importance given the recent events
with Smart Telecom.

Regards,

Stephen Lynam
Policy Officer
Fine Gael Party Leaders Office
Leinster House
Dublin 2

Fine Gael National Press Office Press
Statement
……………………………………………………………………………….……………………
Leinster House
Contact: Bernard Durkan T.D.
Dublin 2 Sinéad
Fennell Communications
Ireland (01) 618 3379/ 086 6075266 & Natural
Resources

Wednesday 4th October 2006

Standing up for consumers and protecting the economy; ‘It’s not Magic, It’s
just Smart’ - Durkan

While welcoming the news that Smart Telecom’s narrowband customers are to
be reconnected following the disgraceful disconnection of over 40,000
telephone lines on Monday evening, Fine Gael Spokesperson on Communications
and Natural Resources, Bernard Durkan TD has called for a sea change in
regulation of the telecoms sector as vital for the future of our economy.

“Looking beyond the huge inconvenience caused to Smart Telecom’s 45,000
customers, the implications of Monday’s events for the Irish economy are
huge.

“For one thing, it is highly unlikely anyone seeking to enter the telecoms
sector will be able to secure the capital for such a venture. This will
inevitably lead to a reduction in the potential for growth in the sector
and will have a knock-on effect on jobs.

“Outside the telecoms sector, Ireland Inc has clearly taken a knock. Anyone
observing the mass disconnection of telephone lines will be of the opinion
that such an occurrence is like something that happens in a Banana Republic
and not in a dynamic, knowledge-led economy. I am convinced that the
perception of a dysfunctional telecoms market (which is clearly the case)
will damage our efforts to attract foreign investment.

“And for consumers in general, the real danger is that ‘consumer inertia’
will become even more deep-rooted and they will view Eircom as the only
safe bet for an uninterrupted telephone service. This will lead to even
less competition and upward pressure on prices.

“This is where the Communications Regulator must play a pro-active role.
This week has not been ComReg’s finest hour and the defensive attitude
taken by Commissioner Goggin on radio this morning must not become the
norm.

“I am calling on ComReg to redouble their efforts to take on Eircom’s
dominance in the market, provide consumers with more information on their
options and take direct steps to ensure mass disconnection never happens
again”.

Also got a reply from Labour saying that they continue to press such matters -, even thouugh it may not be picked up by the media.

Still waiting to here from Fianna Fail.

art

Jor wrote:

Still waiting to here from Fianna Fail.

Have you offered them anything? Large sum of cash, house, etc? You surely can't expect Fianna Fail to get back to you for nothing, now, seriously?