Smart going belly up?

simp

Sponge Bob wrote:

the 4,000 LLU customers that eircom disconnected

Can someone please explain to me how eircom had the right to disconnect the LLU lines? I thought that they were Smart property?

PixelTrawler

Right, comregs askcomreg site is as clear as mud...
A mate of mine is on smart ( he has voice call and BB from smart currently - just one bill ) and is wondering...

If theres 2 weeks to find a new voice call provider ( hes away with work ) ... what if you dont in time. Do you automatically lose voice and BB since the service/line would be cut.

Or is it a case you would have BB and just no voice call facility until you found a new voice provider? And how long could this situation go on for or would you eventually be forced to choose a voice carrier.

Strange situation - and comreg could do a lot more to provide some proper consumer advice - part of their remit isnt it. Their so called advice to Smart Telecom customers doesnt answer these questions at all...

kaizersoze

Joebloggs4817 wrote:

Right, comregs askcomreg site is as clear as mud...
A mate of mine is on smart ( he has voice call and BB from smart currently - just one bill ) and is wondering...

If theres 2 weeks to find a new voice call provider ( hes away with work ) ... what if you dont in time. Do you automatically lose voice and BB since the service/line would be cut.

Or is it a case you would have BB and just no voice call facility until you found a new voice provider? And how long could this situation go on for or would you eventually be forced to choose a voice carrier.

Strange situation - and comreg could do a lot more to provide some proper consumer advice - part of their remit isnt it. Their so called advice to Smart Telecom customers doesnt answer these questions at all...

Read 2 posts up. BB customers will not be affected by the 2 week thing. It only affects customers who use Smart for calls only and do not have Smart BB. Smart LLU BB customers will continue to have voice services.

dub45

Prisoner6409 wrote:

For God's sake. Why not blame the doctor that took out a subscription with a telecoms company not fully established with a firm foothold in the marketplace just to save a few bob. I have no love for Eircom but did you really expect Eircom to subsidise a competitor so they could continue reducing Eircom's customer base. Grow up. As soon as Eircom was privatised the only responsibility it had was to its own customers and shareholders, not its competitors. Plus any doctor I know has a mobile phone number.

Do you ever stop to think about the control over the network that Eircom has?

There should be a plan in place that in the event of a dispute such as this communications are not disrupted. There are plenty of remedies open to Eircom to pursue debt without the type of disruptions they inflicted this week including on their own customers.

If you did stop to think you would realise that the logical outcome of your outburst is that everyone stays with Eircom and there is no competition at all:rolleyes.

And there are plenty of not so well off people out there who will not ring a mobile number.

PixelTrawler

kaizersoze wrote:

Read 2 posts up. BB customers will not be affected by the 2 week thing. It only affects customers who use Smart for calls only and do not have Smart BB. Smart LLU BB customers will continue to have voice services.

Cheers - never spotted that post as I was writing...

Kensington

simp wrote:

Can someone please explain to me how eircom had the right to disconnect the LLU lines? I thought that they were Smart property?

Because Smart wasn't paying the LLU rental for the lines. Smart don't own the physical copper from the exchange to your house, only the equipment in the exchange that the line connects to. They have to pay Eircom so much per month to "rent" the copper to connect customers with. Eircom therefore had the right to disconnect lines of smart due to the non-payment - what they do not have the right to do though, is to automatically re-connect all disconnected Smart broadband customers to eircom which is what they seem to have done to the 4000 disconnected customers.

Sponge Bob

Eircom cut the 4000 off anyway and then they ADVISED Comreg that they were doing it .

Comreg have repeated that advice from eircom at the bottom of this page here....without telling anybody that they are repeating Eircoms advice to them rather than advising the 4000 affected customers themselves.

Comreg also lied to the Irish Times yesterday when they said (Commissioner Doherty) that all affected customer would be restored to some degree by midday yesterday, the 4000 LLU customers wheo were diconnected are still disconnected and will remain disconnected because Comreg refuse to make eircom connect them. Its not the job of Comreg to ensure that people have telecommunications services, this is Ireland after all.

Hope thats clear.

email consumerline@comreg.ie for more 'advice

shayser

What's the story with these "Public Service Announcement" advertisements from eircom. There no public service about it. They are yet another underhand attempt to hoodwink people back to eircom.

I complained to the ASAI as follows.


The broadcast opens by describing itself as a public service announcement. As it progresses, it becomes clear that it is not merely this, but is actually an advertisement for Eircom. Although not explicit, I belive that the broadcast attempts to give the impression that Smart Telecom customers must/should buy an Eircom product in order to have any telephone/broadband internet service. The "helpline" published in the advertisement is, in all reality, a "salesline".

JNive

ive heard this add about an hour ago on red fm. It says its a public service announcement on behalf of smart telecom customers LOL.

then it goes on that customers have been given a 2 week temporary service by eircom,and that they should "choose eircom or another alternative provider" within this time.

It again makes no distinction about LLU and WLR/CPS and gives people the impression that all services on smart are being discontinued, furthermore, it gives preference to eircom as is clear by the quote above.

Also, public service announcements should only be coming from goverment and state-owned agencies really lol

miju

i really dont get what all the eircom bashing is all about?

it's really quite simple smart didn't pay their bills they got disconnected , turns our smart has no money and is millions in debt so eircom and a few other telecom companies circle smart to pick off their customers

sounds like perfectly normal business practice to me?? thats 40,000 potential customers for eircom or for another telecom company whu wouldn't they try to take advantage?

JNive

the fact that they CAN take advantage like this, and that eircom were able to assist this event occuring is the problem.

constitutionus

its a dirty tricks campaign pure and simple. eircom have done everything since day one to frustrate competition in the market. as was mentioned look who quickly they disconnected people while if you wanted connection it took 2 months. you can take your phone number from any mobile network to another yet you cant take your eircom number to smart, why?

and finally the day they do this eircom offer a 10 euro discount on their broadband product, bit of a coincidence isnt it.

JNive

and thei excellent public service announcement which is very halpful by advising people that they need to choose eircom or another alternative provider and kindly provding their sales line as a helpline lol

Gadgetman496

miju wrote:

i really dont get what all the eircom bashing is all about?

it's really quite simple smart didn't pay their bills they got disconnected , turns our smart has no money and is millions in debt so eircom and a few other telecom companies circle smart to pick off their customers

sounds like perfectly normal business practice to me?? thats 40,000 potential customers for eircom or for another telecom company whu wouldn't they try to take advantage?

Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

mike65

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1006/smart.html

The board of troubled telecoms group Smart is to sell off all of its businesses and assets for €1 to a private company controlled by its largest shareholders Brendan Murtagh.

A statement said the deal would allow Smart to provide a full service to its 160 corporate and 17,000 residential broadband customers 'effective immediately'.

Eircom began cutting off these customers earlier this week, having disconnected 40,000 of Smart's fixed-line customers, saying it was owed €4m by the company.

Mr Murtagh's company, BidCo, will also take on all of Smart's debts, estimated to amount to nearly €40m. Smart will be given a 10% stake in BidCo as part of the deal.

The deal is subject to approval of shareholders at an EGM. BidCo has received undertaking from shareholders representing 42% of Smart to back the agreement. BidCo will also provide funds to keep Smart going until the shareholder meeting.

Smart's acting chief executive Ciaran Casey said this was 'a very disappointing outcome' for shareholders, but was the only option.

Mike.

dub45

gadgetman496 wrote:

Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

Agee totally and dont forget not only Smart customers were affected but Eircom's own customers were affected in that they could not contact Smart customers so it went way beyond the 40.000.

In the interests on the whole country there should be a form of 'bonding' (such as in the travel business) put in place by the Govt/Comreg so as to ensure that the communications infrastructure cannot be interrupted as it was this week. It is outrageous (irrespective of the merits of Eircom case against Smart) that the communications system of the country can be used like this.

Dellas

dub45 wrote:

In the interests on the whole country there should be a form of 'bonding' (such as in the travel business) put in place

Well the travel business is a different story !!! I only found out a few months ago that if you book through a Travel Agent you are fully covered if they or the airline they have booked goes bust. If you book direct from your laptop at home say an Aer Lingus flight or package holiday with Budget Travel then they go bust you are likely not to get a cent back !!!! Very worrying. Theres always a catch to these things.

miju

gadgetman496 wrote:

Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

ever hear the phrase "give someone just enough rope to hang themselves"?

is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????
is it eircoms fault that smart telecom was mismanaged????
are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge their customers without eircom recieving a cent in return????

and you ask what planet i'm from???? cop the **** on will you it's a free market smart mismanaged their company and this is the result , eircom did things by the book at all stages and are now trying to capitalise on the situation, well eircom and the other three telecom companies who had nice large ads in the indo yesterday offering to "help" smart customers

dub45

miju wrote:

ever hear the phrase "give someone just enough rope to hang themselves"?

is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????
is it eircoms fault that smart telecom was mismanaged????
are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge their customers without eircom recieving a cent in return????

and you ask what planet i'm from???? cop the **** on will you it's a free market smart mismanaged their company and this is the result , eircom did things by the book at all stages and are now trying to capitalise on the situation, well eircom and the other three telecom companies who had nice large ads in the indo yesterday offering to "help" smart customers

Indeed! :rolleyes: Try thinking a little bit about Eircom's actions in this case - even a teency little bit please?

dub45

Dellas wrote:

Well the travel business is a different story !!! I only found out a few months ago that if you book through a Travel Agent you are fully covered if they or the airline they have booked goes bust. If you book direct from your laptop at home say an Aer Lingus flight or package holiday with Budget Travel then they go bust you are likely not to get a cent back !!!! Very worrying. Theres always a catch to these things.

I am not of course saying that the travel business and the telecom business are the same - I am just using the example of bonding. My point it that the telecoms system should not be so easily disruptable as it was this week - in fact it should not have been disruptable at all.:mad:

oscarBravo

miju wrote:

eircom did things by the book at all stages...

The point you're missing is that Eircom wrote the book in the first place.

JNive

the point being that they issued the suden disconnect BECAUSE it would result in loads of customers without service all of a sudden and in a panic to be rescued by good ole oirish eircom. Thats abuse of their control on the infrastructure. Such large-scale actions as this can ONLY be taken after agreement by comreg / government, as the issue at this stage is much bigger than one company owing another company money, since its the people and a national infrastructure being toyed with

if NTR had a dispute with say the people looking adfter the nice tool booths on the M50 would they all of a sudden, without consulting / informing government, shut down the entire M50 cause they didnt want the people of Ireland not paying to use it.

miju

JNive wrote:

the point being that they issued the suden disconnect BECAUSE it would result in loads of customers without service all of a sudden and in a panic to be rescued by good ole oirish eircom. Thats abuse of their control on the infrastructure. Such large-scale actions as this can ONLY be taken after agreement by comreg / government, as the issue at this stage is much bigger than one company owing another company money, since its the people and a national infrastructure being toyed with

heellllooooo , how many times must people be told that comreg where notified on the intended disconnection multiple times , it's not up to eircom to notify the 40,000 people that would be smarts responsibility seeing as how it's they're customers

i really do fail to see why people are getting worked up, smart didn't pay their bills and got disconnected as a result

would any of you expect eircom to keep letting you make phone calls if you didnt pay your bill????? course you wouldn't

JNive

of course not, cause we dont operate a telecoms network, thats the point. each customer does not have thousands of tax paying people using our services.

as for notifying comreg, it was confirmed before that they were notified shortly before it was done, before they had a chance to do anything. and thats it, they notified them that they were doing it, rather than saying beforehand we will do this next week, cause they cant pay the bill, what can you do about it.

they said, we are disconnecting them now by the way. basically.
nobody ever said eircom should notify smarts customers. but they didnt even notify comreg in enough time for them to do anything or bring them to the table.

Disconnecting an entire Operator, should never be done under any circumstances, and if it was neccesary the governemnt should pay off the debt and subsequently sort out alternative measures with such a troubled telco

dub45

miju wrote:

heellllooooo , how many times must people be told that comreg where notified on the intended disconnection multiple times , it's not up to eircom to notify the 40,000 people that would be smarts responsibility seeing as how it's they're customers

i really do fail to see why people are getting worked up, smart didn't pay their bills and got disconnected as a result

would any of you expect eircom to keep letting you make phone calls if you didnt pay your bill????? course you wouldn't

You seem either unwilling or incapable of taking on board that Eircom played havoc with the telecommunications structure of the country. This included stopping their own customers and the customers of other companies communicating with Smart's customers. No matter how badly managed Smart may have been it does not justify this action which affected the entire nation and could have lead to deaths (inablility to make 999 calls etc)

The Government and Comreg deserve a lot of the blame for not seeing that this sort of thing could happen and have an appropriate plan in place to ensure the continuity of communications.

spurious

Smart will be relaunching soon as a BB only company (no CPS).

I have re-signed up to them (had to because Eircom illegally interfered with my subscription). Eircom are currently re-connecting (as ordered to) the customers they illegally disconnected (non-phone).

I will have 10 meg speed til the end of the yr, still for less than half the price of Eircom.

The real muppets here are the Eircom apologists - enjoy your increased line rental girls and boys.

Jonnie_Onion

miju wrote:

it's a free market

You're having a laugh aren't you?

lardboy

miju wrote:

...it's a free market...

Not according to any definition of free market that I've ever seen. When competition is restricted every step of the way by the dominant player in the market, by obstructive law cases and deliberate inaction and now by bordeline illegal actions, then it's not even close to free. Comreg's complicity in enabling eircom to screw over even more customers is disgraceful.

steve-o

miju wrote:

heellllooooo

Sorry, can't hear you because I've been disconnected by Eircom :rolleyes:
Eircom have a monopoly on phone lines. They disconnected consumers because of a financial dispute they had with a telecoms provider. If there was a real regulator, Eircom would not be allowed to do what they did without permission from the regulator, and consumers would have some protection.

Foxwood

miju wrote:

is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????

Is it Joe Bloggs (a customer of Smart) fault that Smart didn't pay their
bill (according to eircom - Smart say that they did pay their bills).

Why should Joe Bloggs and 40,000 other taxpayers be cut off without notice
because of a dispute between eircom and Smart? (Actually, we know why -
eircom was trying to scuttle it's only significant competitor. It was quite
happy to wave goodbye to 4 million to do that).

are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge
their customers without eircom recieving a cent in
return????

Actually, yes. If eircom can't figure out how to resolve
it's problems with Smart without cutting off 40,000 innocent bystanders,
then the charge of mismanagement should be laid at eircoms door, as they
drew up a contract with Smart that didn't include provisions for this sort
of thing.

In any other Western country, eircom would be facing massive fines for
accidentally causing disruption on this level. To do it deliberately would
be considered national sabotage.

But not in Ireland, where "accountability" doesn't exist for politicians,
Commissioners or well connected commercial interests.