Using Bus Lanes

mackerski

Victor wrote:

Dermot, I think you are being a bit unfair, attacking someone who is trying to improve their knowledge.

I don't feel that I've attacked anyone. I expressed shock alright - not that somebody would seek to improve their knowledge, but that they should be on the road in the first place without that knowledge.

Victor wrote:

Still, is there a clear answer - can you drive at "normal" speeds in an empty bus lane?

Unless I misunderstand your question, the answer is "yes". A bus lane out of hours is just like any other lane. Seen that way, you're actually obliged to use it for preference in most driving situations.

Dermot

_Kaiser_

Someone care to enlighten me why we have 24 Hour bus lanes but no 24 Hour bus service?

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Someone care to enlighten me why we have 24 Hour bus lanes but no 24 Hour bus service?

It is getting boring answering this one

24 hour bus lanes tend to be those that were formerly hard shoulders or are contra flow like at eden quay and the CC do not want people driving in them if they were not a bus lane they would be a hard shoulder or a lane in the opposite direction therefor you are not being deprived of anything by not being allowed to drive in them.


BTW
And we do have 24 hour bus services

Tarabuses

mackerski wrote:

Unless I misunderstand your question, the answer is "yes". A bus lane out of hours is just like any other lane. Seen that way, you're actually obliged to use it for preference in most driving situations.

Dermot

I have heard of drivers failing their driving test for not using a bus lane outside its hours of operation. It is, therefore, a requirement not a choice.

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

b) drivers already qualified skill up on new developments. You'll agree that the workings of bus lanes aren't that tricky, I assume.

Dermot

I totally agree Dermot, but you enquired how drivers acquired a licence without knowing about bus lanes. I was simply stating that many licence holders would not have been tested re bus lanes because they didn't exist when they did their driving test ( or even those were not tested prior to it's introduction in 1964). It's the same for roundabouts, cycle lanes, traffic lights, motorways etc.

Capt'n Midnight

The edge of a bus lane is a solid white line, doesn't that mean you can't enter or leave it except at a junction or areas where there are dashed lines indicating you can cross into or out of the lane.

In SDCC there are a lot of bus lane "not in operation" signs. And have been for some time. Since they are not in use and aren't likely to be in the short term ( the 200 buses are 6 years overdue ) shouldn't the council change them back to normal lanes or at least put more dashes in the lines so people can legally cross into them ?

shltter

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The edge of a bus lane is a solid white line, doesn't that mean you can't enter or leave it except at a junction or areas where there are dashed lines indicating you can cross into or out of the lane.

In SDCC there are a lot of bus lane "not in operation" signs. And have been for some time. Since they are not in use and aren't likely to be in the short term ( the 200 buses are 6 years overdue ) shouldn't the council change them back to normal lanes or at least put more dashes in the lines so people can legally cross into them ?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI284Y1956.html

No a continous white line marking different lanes on a road is different from a bus lane marking. The rules governing crossing a bus lane white line are different from those governing a continous white line

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI284Y1956.html


You can not cross the line in regards that you can not drive in the bus lane if you are not driving a Bus or taxi but the line does not operate as a continous white line in the sense that you must keep left vehicles in the bus lane are free to cross the line and leave the bus lane if it is safe to do so or re-enter the lane afterwards

_Kaiser_

shltter wrote:

It is getting boring answering this one

24 hour bus lanes tend to be those that were formerly hard shoulders or are contra flow like at eden quay and the CC do not want people driving in them if they were not a bus lane they would be a hard shoulder or a lane in the opposite direction therefor you are not being deprived of anything by not being allowed to drive in them.


BTW
And we do have 24 hour bus services

Fair enough in your examples above (contra-flow or former hard shoulders), but I'm thinking more of situations where a driving lane was removed to put these in, reducing it to a single lane for normal traffic

As for your 24 hour services comment, we all know that in Dublin these bus lanes are primarily designed for Dublin Bus services which (Nitelinks and such aside) terminate at 11.30 last I looked ("changing with the city" (of shift workers and others who need to get around at any hour) indeed! :rolleyes: )

Incidentially, with your attitude (which I've noted on countless occasions here) I hope you aren't dealing with the public!

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Fair enough in your examples above (contra-flow or former hard shoulders), but I'm thinking more of situations where a driving lane was removed to put these in, reducing it to a single lane for normal traffic

As for your 24 hour services comment, we all know that in Dublin these bus lanes are primarily designed for Dublin Bus services which (Nitelinks and such aside) terminate at 11.30 last I looked ("changing with the city" (of shift workers and others who need to get around at any hour) indeed! :rolleyes: )

Incidentially, with your attitude (which I've noted on countless occasions here) I hope you aren't dealing with the public!

For example where exactly are you thinking of. Any 24 hour bus lane I can think of is either formerly a hard shoulder or partly formerly a hard shoulder or contra flow or something along those lines like the bottom of South great georges st has a turning restriction. Parnell Square might be 24 hour but that is because the CC dont want traffic on O'Connell st so even if the bus lane was open on parnell st you still could not turn down there.


Nitelink is a dublin bus service so how can it be aside that is a ridicolous comment
Basically you are saying apart from the night buses we dont have a night time service
And the unfortunate thing is that the government do not view services after 11:30 as being a vital public service so no PSO applies to such services that is why they are scarce because they are operated on a purely commercial basis if it makes money it stays if it doesn't it goes.

I am not being paid to answer your questions here so I don't have to be nice to you unlike when I am in work. There are people here who just hate CIE or anything associated with it why should I be nice to them here.

And this old chestnut about the 24 hour bus lanes keeps coming up all the time it gets particularly boring listening to the same rhetoric all the time from people who look for any excuse to attack DB its workforce and their trade unions.

_Kaiser_

shltter wrote:

For example where exactly are you thinking of. Any 24 hour bus lane I can think of is either formerly a hard shoulder or partly formerly a hard shoulder or contra flow or something along those lines like the bottom of South great georges st has a turning restriction. Parnell Square might be 24 hour but that is because the CC dont want traffic on O'Connell st so even if the bus lane was open on parnell st you still could not turn down there.


Nitelink is a dublin bus service so how can it be aside that is a ridicolous comment
Basically you are saying apart from the night buses we dont have a night time service
And the unfortunate thing is that the government do not view services after 11:30 as being a vital public service so no PSO applies to such services that is why they are scarce because they are operated on a purely commercial basis if it makes money it stays if it doesn't it goes.

I am not being paid to answer your questions here so I don't have to be nice to you unlike when I am in work. There are people here who just hate CIE or anything associated with it why should I be nice to them here.

And this old chestnut about the 24 hour bus lanes keeps coming up all the time it gets particularly boring listening to the same rhetoric all the time from people who look for any excuse to attack DB its workforce and their trade unions.

Oh ok.. I'll play along...

24 Hour buslanes - see this thread

Nitelinks are a limited service with very few pick-up points along the abbreviated/otherwise altered routes they follow and end at 3:30 thus can hardly be called a full or even Sunday-style overnight service. Granted funding is required to change this, but let's not pretend that something is what it isn't.

Clearly, and ironically, you have a big chip on your shoulder about the (mostly) legitimate complaints and points raised here against DB, it's staff, management and unions and whilst you may not be paid to "be nice" to us, the fact that you feel this is the only reason you should be to the public speaks volumes - how about professionalism?

If you're going to represent DB here (even as an individual), I'd expect a little more willingness to debate the issues without resorting to childish retorts ("this is getting boring" etc) and an ability to objectively and constructively make your points.

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Oh ok.. I'll play along...

24 Hour buslanes - see this thread

Nitelinks are a limited service with very few pick-up points along the abbreviated/otherwise altered routes they follow and end at 3:30 thus can hardly be called a full or even Sunday-style overnight service. Granted funding is required to change this, but let's not pretend that something is what it isn't.

Clearly, and ironically, you have a big chip on your shoulder about the (mostly) legitimate complaints and points raised here against DB, it's staff, management and unions and whilst you may not be paid to "be nice" to us, the fact that you feel this is the only reason you should be to the public speaks volumes - how about professionalism?

If you're going to represent DB here (even as an individual), I'd expect a little more willingness to debate the issues without resorting to childish retorts ("this is getting boring" etc) and an ability to objectively and constructively make your points.

Dont play along you raised the issue where are you talking about exactly llinking to a previous thread on the issue merely proves the point that it is an old chestnut
And briefly glancing at the thread the areas mentioned are as i said formerly hard shoulders etc

I do not represent DB its work force or its Trade unions I represent ME if I feel like being blunt I will be if I feel like saying your post is repetitive and boring I will do.

I have explained the situation to you regards the Nitelinks BTW last bus friday and Saturday is 4:30 am it is operated on a commercial basis end of story if at some future time the DOT or the new regulator decides that night time buses are an essential public transort need then they will be paid for and provided no problem.

24 hour bus lanes are a matter for the respective councils they are provided not because anyone believes that buses may be stuck in traffic at 3am but because the respective authority does not want motorists driving on that section of the road at anytime usually because of the former use of that section of the road.

garred

Sh1tter, I've always wondered why part of the bus lane on the Stillorgan road is 24 hour (from Bondi to trees road).

shltter

garred wrote:

Sh1tter, I've always wondered why part of the bus lane on the Stillorgan road is 24 hour (from Bondi to trees road).

Sorry I am not familiar with that particular section but at a guess it was probably formerly part of the hard shoulder on that road or there is some other reason like traffic merges that the local city council dont want people driving in there.
As I said DB has no responsibility for the hours of operation of any section of bus lanes it is a matter for the planners in the relevant local authority without being flippant if you get onto SDCC or whoever it is for that part of the city they might be able to explain the reasoning behind it.
Every 24 hour bus lane I know of is because of the reasons laid out before ie it was hard shoulder, traffic restrictions , etc

seamus

I've always wondered about the legality of using a bus lane specifically to avoid junctions. In plenty of place, the bus lane leaves the normal traffic flow to avoid a roundabout, or literally "goes around" a set of traffic lights. If the lane is not in operation, is it legal to use the bus lane to avoid the junction?

Victor

seamus wrote:

I've always wondered about the legality of using a bus lane specifically to avoid junctions. In plenty of place, the bus lane leaves the normal traffic flow to avoid a roundabout, or literally "goes around" a set of traffic lights.

I can only think of one such situation - the Wilton Roundabout in Cork, are there more?

seamus

Three I can think of from the top of my head:

Lucan (at woodies), bus lane goes around the traffic (has its own set of lights which only go red for pedestrians).
Clondalkin at the Clondalkin/Newcastle/Newlands roundabout (bus lane completely bypasses the r/a and goes towards Lucan
Nangor road.

Niallman

Aside from the legality of and rules of bus lanes, does anyone not think its extremely ignorant to fly up the full length of a traffic queue using the bus lane and cut in at the lights or to take the bus lane short-cut around the side of a roundabout while everybody else has to queue.:mad:

I can't imagine that if you were next to be served in a shop queue and I walked past you and started putting my shopping on the counter that you would stay quiet. I can't believe the arrogance of some people flicking the indicator on and nosing the car in expecting to be let in. Unbelieveably ignorant. Its also particularly galling that such people then feel they have the right to be annoyed when I or anyone else refuse to let them in.

Ok, I've vented now!

mackerski

Niallman wrote:

Aside from the legality of and rules of bus lanes, does anyone not think its extremely ignorant to fly up the full length of a traffic queue using the bus lane and cut in at the lights or to take the bus lane short-cut around the side of a roundabout while everybody else has to queue.:mad:

Are we talking about an actual bus lane here, or a lane that is sometimes a bus lane, but not right at the moment? If the latter, the ignorance is on the part of those needlessly queueing.

Dermot

Niallman

Actual bus lane of course. I've no problem with using bus lanes outside their hours of operation or where they're not in operation yet, eg Nangor rd. I do have a problem with people using the bus lane to break the lights however.

Davidth88

Hi Niallman

As a person who ' breaks the lights' on the bus lane on the Nangor Rd on a regular basis , my reply to you would be , why are you sitting on a red light when a perfectly good road lies to your left, why not use it as long as it's safe to do so.

Now of course people who skip queues and butt in at the head of a queue may be a different matter , the Nangor Rd is flowing at the time I use it. I think I may have issues here , I would use it if I am turning left ( as in going into Park West ) or in the case of the Nangor rd it misses traffic lights where in my opinion people are queuing for no reason.
I do have an issue with people that use the bus lane to ' turn left ' then skip across the road and therefore miss out a legitimate set of lights , this is dangerous but I see it every day at the Park West turn.

The question of course should be , why are buslanes being built where no buses run ? but that's a different thread I think.

Victor

Davidth88 wrote:

The question of course should be , why are buslanes being built where no buses run ? but that's a different thread I think.

Because the minister has around for years delaying the approval of new buses and new bus routes.