Using Bus Lanes

DaDa

Bus lanes have hours of operation associated with them. Typically on my route to work the time advertised is 07:00 - 09:30 or something close to that.


1. Does this mean that cars can use the bus lane outside of those hours? My assumption is yes they can.

2. Does this mean that cars should use the bus lane since by default you should drive in leftmost lane unless overaking?

3. If mototists don't know they can/should use the bus lane outside the advertised hours then when I do use it and pass a long line of cars queuing in the right lane... am I breaking the law by overtaking on the left?

Both lanes are forced to merge into one lane at the next set of traffic lights... so when I use the bus lane after 09:30... driving past a long line of queuing cars in the right lane I really look like I am being extremely cheeky and rude.

Davidth88

Hi,

Certainly you can use the bus lanes out of hours , thats quite clear , along with bus lanes that are ' not in operation ' like on the Nangor Rd at present.

I would say that you should keep to the left ( the primary rule ) however the thick white line is very off-putting to most people who are nervous about crossing it.

As for ' undertaking ' , that is pretty dangerous , not many people check their left mirror when pulling out / turning left .... I would be really careful doing this. If the line of traffic is stationary then I think you can do this legally however, for example if all the lanes on a dual carrageway are stopped if the left one moves first you can ' undertake ' the right hand ones.

I am open to correction because I learnt to drive in London , and most of my experiance is from British roads , although I have read the rules of the road here , so I know you can use a bus lane out of hrs.

Wishbone Ash

DaDa wrote:

driving past a long line of queuing cars in the right lane I really look like I am being extremely cheeky and rude.

To me, you would look like a motorists who is alert, making progress and able to read the signs provided, unlike many of the dozies queuing in the right hand lane.

I always get dirty looks when I use the bus lane inbound at Drumcondra even though it is open to all traffic between 10am and 12 noon. Most drivers seem to presume that they are all 24 hour.

DaDa

Davidth88 wrote:

Hi,

...
As for ' undertaking ' , that is pretty dangerous , not many people check their left mirror when pulling out / turning left .... I would be really careful doing this. ...

Yep, really means you've to watch the right lane like a hawk, and drive very slowly.

Draupnir

The Rules of the Road state that you can overtake in a left lane when the traffic in the right lane is moving slower than in the left lane.

godtabh

People should be checking their mirrors at all times no matter what they are doing.

Bus lanes that have time limits are allowed to be used but not for undertaking. As has been said this can be dangerous

fletch

Are you talking about the bus lane through Lucan just before Woodies? I have the same quandry every morning as yourself. I can literally feel the people tutting at me as I saunter up the bus lane while they all sit in traffic and then I try to merge before the traffic light because the bus lane suddenly changes to 24hr. Once you don't go tearing up the inside I think you should be okay. I tend to drive quite slowly just to be on the safe side.

loyatemu

if it's safe for buses and taxis to undertake in the buslane how is it more dangerous for regular motorists?

Davidth88

Kearnsr ....

People should be checking their mirrors at all times no matter what they are doing

Of course they should be checking their mirror , but you can't trust people to be doing this.

loyatemu

if it's safe for buses and taxis to undertake in the buslane how is it more dangerous for regular motorists

Well , a bus is a big noisy thing ....... more likely that any driver would notice this , although I still find it alarming when taxi's fly past me at 40-50 mph when I am stationary......

Wishbone Ash

Davidth88 wrote:

a bus is a big noisy thing ....... more likely that any driver would notice this

I was involved in a accident with a car while driving an articulated bus a few years ago. I was on a roundabout when the car entered and collided with the bus. He jumped out and said "Sorry, I didn't see you". How could he miss an 18 metre vehicle???

Laura Fitz06

drivers are ment to obay the rools not police them .. most of the drivers in thr right lane just dont have the balls to use the left. while tutting they are realy saying i should of done that .why shouldnt we use bus lanes most of the time there is no buses in sight.

Davidth88

I have a smile every morning when I zip past a red light on the ( not in use ) bus lane on the Nangor Rd , with a long queue sitting there.

However this morning I watched in horror as a car in front used the bus lane , then cut in front of another car and nearly took his nose off...

Just be very careful using those lanes , remember people don't expect traffic on their left.

mackerski

DaDa wrote:

1. Does this mean that cars can use the bus lane outside of those hours? My assumption is yes they can.

On the basis that you seem to indicate that you drive to work, do you mind explaining how you got a driving licence without finding out how bus lanes work?

Dermot

MrPudding

mackerski wrote:

On the basis that you seem to indicate that you drive to work, do you mind explaining how you got a driving licence without finding out how bus lanes work?

Dermot

I would assume that he applied for it. It's not exactly hard. Not commenting about the OP in particular but it is very easy to get a license in Ireland and take to the roads without even having had a lesson let alone learning the finer points of the rules of the road.

MrP

mackerski

MrPudding wrote:

I would assume that he applied for it. It's not exactly hard. Not commenting about the OP in particular but it is very easy to get a license in Ireland and take to the roads without even having had a lesson let alone learning the finer points of the rules of the road.

Agreed so far - but it seems a pretty basic (and obvious) part of driving theory to miss. I also recall it being one of the few items actually spelt out in the Rule of the Road booklet, which isn't exactly a hefty tome - well capable of being read in one sitting.

Dermot

corktina

WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!!! Don't tell them all they can use the Bus Lane at certain times...they'll all do it and then I'll have to wait my turn!!!

I got in a dispute in Pearse street with a guy who wouldnt let me in....He said I shouldnt be in the Bus Lane, I said "check your watch...and I'm bigger than you and it's my last day in this job"...he let me in...:)

Hobbes

If it doesn't have a time sign on it you can't use it. If it has a time sign then you can use it outside the set times it is a bus lane.

Anyone who drives in a bus lane when they are not supposed to should get seriously slapped. Its for taxi and buses only during those times for a reason.

ardmacha

Problem is that bus lane signs are rather hard to read if you are driving along, especially as you are probably not in the inside lane and the times when you can use the buslane is in the dark (for the next 6 months anyway).

DaDa

fletch wrote:

Are you talking about the bus lane through Lucan just before Woodies? I have the same quandry every morning as yourself. I can literally feel the people tutting at me as I saunter up the bus lane while they all sit in traffic and then I try to merge before the traffic light because the bus lane suddenly changes to 24hr. Once you don't go tearing up the inside I think you should be okay. I tend to drive quite slowly just to be on the safe side.

Got it in one :-)

DaDa

mackerski wrote:

On the basis that you seem to indicate that you drive to work, do you mind explaining how you got a driving licence without finding out how bus lanes work?

Dermot

When were Bus lanes introduced into Ireland?
Might I have sat my test before such an event?
Has the test changed over the years?
Were rules governing bus lanes always in the Rules of the Road book?
Could I have swapped a license from another country upon moving here when such a swap-scheme existed?
Could I currently be a learner driver seeking out further clarification?

I might fall into any, or none of those categories.

mackerski

DaDa wrote:

When were Bus lanes introduced into Ireland?

The first ones I can recall were in the early 80s, long before I was allowed to drive.

DaDa wrote:

Might I have sat my test before such an event?
Has the test changed over the years?
Were rules governing bus lanes always in the Rules of the Road book?
Could I have swapped a license from another country upon moving here when such a swap-scheme existed?
Could I currently be a learner driver seeking out further clarification?

I might fall into any, or none of those categories.

You fall into the category of somebody who pilots over a ton of metal on the same roads as I do, yet you seem to lack some very basic knowledge of how to go about it. The roads are full of people who got their licences without driving around a roundabout, but I'd still be shocked if one came the wrong way around one at me. Maybe I'm the only one worried about this kind of thing, life is short after all...

Dermot

DaDa

mackerski wrote:

driving around a roundabout, but I'd still be shocked if one came the wrong way
Dermot

are you likening that scenario to my original question about using bus lanes correctly? Life is short Dermot, I'd go and enjoy myself a little more while you still have time.

mackerski

DaDa wrote:

are you likening that scenario to my original question about using bus lanes correctly? Life is short Dermot, I'd go and enjoy myself a little more while you still have time.

Well, both roundabouts and bus lanes are relatively recent inventions, having been with us in quantity for only 20-odd years, and in the ROTR book for at least 10 years. On an accident-causing scale, the two are clearly poles apart, but the nobody-told-me principle doesn't work well when applied to something as dangerous as road-traffic.

As I stated above - the workings of a bus lane are reasonably easily deduced. But if you haven't concerned yourself with driving theory during the (clearly large) time since you got your licence then that troubles me as somebody who shares the roads with you. Who knows what else you might have missed?

Dermot

DaDa

I'm curious, do you claim to understand every rule of the road?

mackerski

DaDa wrote:

I'm curious, do you claim to understand every rule of the road?

I seek to. Long in advance of my first provisional licence I had read numerous books on driving theory, including the sub-standard ROTR. It seemed like a reasonable investment in my own safety and that of others.

Dermot

HelterSkelter

Hobbes wrote:

If it doesn't have a time sign on it you can't use it. If it has a time sign then you can use it outside the set times it is a bus lane.

Are you sure about that? I thought it was the other way around, if it doesn't have the appropiate sinage (i.e. the blue signs with the pic of the bus and the plate underneath indicating the hours of operation) then it is not officially considered a bus lane and you can drive in it.

shltter

HelterSkelter wrote:

Are you sure about that? I thought it was the other way around, if it doesn't have the appropiate sinage (i.e. the blue signs with the pic of the bus and the plate underneath indicating the hours of operation) then it is not officially considered a bus lane and you can drive in it.

IF it has it has the blue sign but no time sign then it is a 24 hour bus lane

outside of the normal hours of operation it is perfectly fine to drive in the bus lane( obviuosly 24 hour bus lanes are always in operation)

However some bus lanes have a left turn only at the next junction (except buses and taxis ) if you drove straight on that would be illegal

Overtaking on the left is perfectly fine in certain conditions ( ie slow moving traffic and traffic queuing to turn right)


Traffic merging into one lane should merge in turn
ie you let the car infront of you in the car behind lets you in

mackerski

shltter wrote:

However some bus lanes have a left turn only at the next junction (except buses and taxis ) if you drove straight on that would be illegal

The bulk of such left-turning lanes don't explicitly except buses and taxis, even though it's perfectly obvious that bus lane traffic is supposed to proceed straight on.

Dermot

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

On the basis that you seem to indicate that you drive to work, do you mind explaining how you got a driving licence without finding out how bus lanes work?

Dermot

Many of us acquired our licences long before the introduction of bus lanes. :rolleyes: Perhaps the OP is the same.

mackerski

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Many of us acquired our licences long before the introduction of bus lanes. :rolleyes: Perhaps the OP is the same.

Possible solutions to this conundrun:

a) all drivers tolerate muppetty driving until the old-timers die out
b) drivers already qualified skill up on new developments. You'll agree that the workings of bus lanes aren't that tricky, I assume.

Dermot

Victor

Dermot, I think you are being a bit unfair, attacking someone who is trying to improve their knowledge.

Still, is there a clear answer - can you drive at "normal" speeds in an empty bus lane?

mackerski wrote:

The bulk of such left-turning lanes don't explicitly except buses and taxis, even though it's perfectly obvious that bus lane traffic is supposed to proceed straight on.

They are working on this.

mackerski

Victor wrote:

Dermot, I think you are being a bit unfair, attacking someone who is trying to improve their knowledge.

I don't feel that I've attacked anyone. I expressed shock alright - not that somebody would seek to improve their knowledge, but that they should be on the road in the first place without that knowledge.

Victor wrote:

Still, is there a clear answer - can you drive at "normal" speeds in an empty bus lane?

Unless I misunderstand your question, the answer is "yes". A bus lane out of hours is just like any other lane. Seen that way, you're actually obliged to use it for preference in most driving situations.

Dermot

_Kaiser_

Someone care to enlighten me why we have 24 Hour bus lanes but no 24 Hour bus service?

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Someone care to enlighten me why we have 24 Hour bus lanes but no 24 Hour bus service?

It is getting boring answering this one

24 hour bus lanes tend to be those that were formerly hard shoulders or are contra flow like at eden quay and the CC do not want people driving in them if they were not a bus lane they would be a hard shoulder or a lane in the opposite direction therefor you are not being deprived of anything by not being allowed to drive in them.


BTW
And we do have 24 hour bus services

Tarabuses

mackerski wrote:

Unless I misunderstand your question, the answer is "yes". A bus lane out of hours is just like any other lane. Seen that way, you're actually obliged to use it for preference in most driving situations.

Dermot

I have heard of drivers failing their driving test for not using a bus lane outside its hours of operation. It is, therefore, a requirement not a choice.

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

b) drivers already qualified skill up on new developments. You'll agree that the workings of bus lanes aren't that tricky, I assume.

Dermot

I totally agree Dermot, but you enquired how drivers acquired a licence without knowing about bus lanes. I was simply stating that many licence holders would not have been tested re bus lanes because they didn't exist when they did their driving test ( or even those were not tested prior to it's introduction in 1964). It's the same for roundabouts, cycle lanes, traffic lights, motorways etc.

Capt'n Midnight

The edge of a bus lane is a solid white line, doesn't that mean you can't enter or leave it except at a junction or areas where there are dashed lines indicating you can cross into or out of the lane.

In SDCC there are a lot of bus lane "not in operation" signs. And have been for some time. Since they are not in use and aren't likely to be in the short term ( the 200 buses are 6 years overdue ) shouldn't the council change them back to normal lanes or at least put more dashes in the lines so people can legally cross into them ?

shltter

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The edge of a bus lane is a solid white line, doesn't that mean you can't enter or leave it except at a junction or areas where there are dashed lines indicating you can cross into or out of the lane.

In SDCC there are a lot of bus lane "not in operation" signs. And have been for some time. Since they are not in use and aren't likely to be in the short term ( the 200 buses are 6 years overdue ) shouldn't the council change them back to normal lanes or at least put more dashes in the lines so people can legally cross into them ?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI284Y1956.html

No a continous white line marking different lanes on a road is different from a bus lane marking. The rules governing crossing a bus lane white line are different from those governing a continous white line

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI284Y1956.html


You can not cross the line in regards that you can not drive in the bus lane if you are not driving a Bus or taxi but the line does not operate as a continous white line in the sense that you must keep left vehicles in the bus lane are free to cross the line and leave the bus lane if it is safe to do so or re-enter the lane afterwards

_Kaiser_

shltter wrote:

It is getting boring answering this one

24 hour bus lanes tend to be those that were formerly hard shoulders or are contra flow like at eden quay and the CC do not want people driving in them if they were not a bus lane they would be a hard shoulder or a lane in the opposite direction therefor you are not being deprived of anything by not being allowed to drive in them.


BTW
And we do have 24 hour bus services

Fair enough in your examples above (contra-flow or former hard shoulders), but I'm thinking more of situations where a driving lane was removed to put these in, reducing it to a single lane for normal traffic

As for your 24 hour services comment, we all know that in Dublin these bus lanes are primarily designed for Dublin Bus services which (Nitelinks and such aside) terminate at 11.30 last I looked ("changing with the city" (of shift workers and others who need to get around at any hour) indeed! :rolleyes: )

Incidentially, with your attitude (which I've noted on countless occasions here) I hope you aren't dealing with the public!

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Fair enough in your examples above (contra-flow or former hard shoulders), but I'm thinking more of situations where a driving lane was removed to put these in, reducing it to a single lane for normal traffic

As for your 24 hour services comment, we all know that in Dublin these bus lanes are primarily designed for Dublin Bus services which (Nitelinks and such aside) terminate at 11.30 last I looked ("changing with the city" (of shift workers and others who need to get around at any hour) indeed! :rolleyes: )

Incidentially, with your attitude (which I've noted on countless occasions here) I hope you aren't dealing with the public!

For example where exactly are you thinking of. Any 24 hour bus lane I can think of is either formerly a hard shoulder or partly formerly a hard shoulder or contra flow or something along those lines like the bottom of South great georges st has a turning restriction. Parnell Square might be 24 hour but that is because the CC dont want traffic on O'Connell st so even if the bus lane was open on parnell st you still could not turn down there.


Nitelink is a dublin bus service so how can it be aside that is a ridicolous comment
Basically you are saying apart from the night buses we dont have a night time service
And the unfortunate thing is that the government do not view services after 11:30 as being a vital public service so no PSO applies to such services that is why they are scarce because they are operated on a purely commercial basis if it makes money it stays if it doesn't it goes.

I am not being paid to answer your questions here so I don't have to be nice to you unlike when I am in work. There are people here who just hate CIE or anything associated with it why should I be nice to them here.

And this old chestnut about the 24 hour bus lanes keeps coming up all the time it gets particularly boring listening to the same rhetoric all the time from people who look for any excuse to attack DB its workforce and their trade unions.

_Kaiser_

shltter wrote:

For example where exactly are you thinking of. Any 24 hour bus lane I can think of is either formerly a hard shoulder or partly formerly a hard shoulder or contra flow or something along those lines like the bottom of South great georges st has a turning restriction. Parnell Square might be 24 hour but that is because the CC dont want traffic on O'Connell st so even if the bus lane was open on parnell st you still could not turn down there.


Nitelink is a dublin bus service so how can it be aside that is a ridicolous comment
Basically you are saying apart from the night buses we dont have a night time service
And the unfortunate thing is that the government do not view services after 11:30 as being a vital public service so no PSO applies to such services that is why they are scarce because they are operated on a purely commercial basis if it makes money it stays if it doesn't it goes.

I am not being paid to answer your questions here so I don't have to be nice to you unlike when I am in work. There are people here who just hate CIE or anything associated with it why should I be nice to them here.

And this old chestnut about the 24 hour bus lanes keeps coming up all the time it gets particularly boring listening to the same rhetoric all the time from people who look for any excuse to attack DB its workforce and their trade unions.

Oh ok.. I'll play along...

24 Hour buslanes - see this thread

Nitelinks are a limited service with very few pick-up points along the abbreviated/otherwise altered routes they follow and end at 3:30 thus can hardly be called a full or even Sunday-style overnight service. Granted funding is required to change this, but let's not pretend that something is what it isn't.

Clearly, and ironically, you have a big chip on your shoulder about the (mostly) legitimate complaints and points raised here against DB, it's staff, management and unions and whilst you may not be paid to "be nice" to us, the fact that you feel this is the only reason you should be to the public speaks volumes - how about professionalism?

If you're going to represent DB here (even as an individual), I'd expect a little more willingness to debate the issues without resorting to childish retorts ("this is getting boring" etc) and an ability to objectively and constructively make your points.

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Oh ok.. I'll play along...

24 Hour buslanes - see this thread

Nitelinks are a limited service with very few pick-up points along the abbreviated/otherwise altered routes they follow and end at 3:30 thus can hardly be called a full or even Sunday-style overnight service. Granted funding is required to change this, but let's not pretend that something is what it isn't.

Clearly, and ironically, you have a big chip on your shoulder about the (mostly) legitimate complaints and points raised here against DB, it's staff, management and unions and whilst you may not be paid to "be nice" to us, the fact that you feel this is the only reason you should be to the public speaks volumes - how about professionalism?

If you're going to represent DB here (even as an individual), I'd expect a little more willingness to debate the issues without resorting to childish retorts ("this is getting boring" etc) and an ability to objectively and constructively make your points.

Dont play along you raised the issue where are you talking about exactly llinking to a previous thread on the issue merely proves the point that it is an old chestnut
And briefly glancing at the thread the areas mentioned are as i said formerly hard shoulders etc

I do not represent DB its work force or its Trade unions I represent ME if I feel like being blunt I will be if I feel like saying your post is repetitive and boring I will do.

I have explained the situation to you regards the Nitelinks BTW last bus friday and Saturday is 4:30 am it is operated on a commercial basis end of story if at some future time the DOT or the new regulator decides that night time buses are an essential public transort need then they will be paid for and provided no problem.

24 hour bus lanes are a matter for the respective councils they are provided not because anyone believes that buses may be stuck in traffic at 3am but because the respective authority does not want motorists driving on that section of the road at anytime usually because of the former use of that section of the road.

garred

Sh1tter, I've always wondered why part of the bus lane on the Stillorgan road is 24 hour (from Bondi to trees road).

shltter

garred wrote:

Sh1tter, I've always wondered why part of the bus lane on the Stillorgan road is 24 hour (from Bondi to trees road).

Sorry I am not familiar with that particular section but at a guess it was probably formerly part of the hard shoulder on that road or there is some other reason like traffic merges that the local city council dont want people driving in there.
As I said DB has no responsibility for the hours of operation of any section of bus lanes it is a matter for the planners in the relevant local authority without being flippant if you get onto SDCC or whoever it is for that part of the city they might be able to explain the reasoning behind it.
Every 24 hour bus lane I know of is because of the reasons laid out before ie it was hard shoulder, traffic restrictions , etc

seamus

I've always wondered about the legality of using a bus lane specifically to avoid junctions. In plenty of place, the bus lane leaves the normal traffic flow to avoid a roundabout, or literally "goes around" a set of traffic lights. If the lane is not in operation, is it legal to use the bus lane to avoid the junction?

Victor

seamus wrote:

I've always wondered about the legality of using a bus lane specifically to avoid junctions. In plenty of place, the bus lane leaves the normal traffic flow to avoid a roundabout, or literally "goes around" a set of traffic lights.

I can only think of one such situation - the Wilton Roundabout in Cork, are there more?

seamus

Three I can think of from the top of my head:

Lucan (at woodies), bus lane goes around the traffic (has its own set of lights which only go red for pedestrians).
Clondalkin at the Clondalkin/Newcastle/Newlands roundabout (bus lane completely bypasses the r/a and goes towards Lucan
Nangor road.

Niallman

Aside from the legality of and rules of bus lanes, does anyone not think its extremely ignorant to fly up the full length of a traffic queue using the bus lane and cut in at the lights or to take the bus lane short-cut around the side of a roundabout while everybody else has to queue.:mad:

I can't imagine that if you were next to be served in a shop queue and I walked past you and started putting my shopping on the counter that you would stay quiet. I can't believe the arrogance of some people flicking the indicator on and nosing the car in expecting to be let in. Unbelieveably ignorant. Its also particularly galling that such people then feel they have the right to be annoyed when I or anyone else refuse to let them in.

Ok, I've vented now!

mackerski

Niallman wrote:

Aside from the legality of and rules of bus lanes, does anyone not think its extremely ignorant to fly up the full length of a traffic queue using the bus lane and cut in at the lights or to take the bus lane short-cut around the side of a roundabout while everybody else has to queue.:mad:

Are we talking about an actual bus lane here, or a lane that is sometimes a bus lane, but not right at the moment? If the latter, the ignorance is on the part of those needlessly queueing.

Dermot

Niallman

Actual bus lane of course. I've no problem with using bus lanes outside their hours of operation or where they're not in operation yet, eg Nangor rd. I do have a problem with people using the bus lane to break the lights however.

Davidth88

Hi Niallman

As a person who ' breaks the lights' on the bus lane on the Nangor Rd on a regular basis , my reply to you would be , why are you sitting on a red light when a perfectly good road lies to your left, why not use it as long as it's safe to do so.

Now of course people who skip queues and butt in at the head of a queue may be a different matter , the Nangor Rd is flowing at the time I use it. I think I may have issues here , I would use it if I am turning left ( as in going into Park West ) or in the case of the Nangor rd it misses traffic lights where in my opinion people are queuing for no reason.
I do have an issue with people that use the bus lane to ' turn left ' then skip across the road and therefore miss out a legitimate set of lights , this is dangerous but I see it every day at the Park West turn.

The question of course should be , why are buslanes being built where no buses run ? but that's a different thread I think.