Mutiny as passengers refuse to fly until Asians are removed

Catsmokinpot

The Daily Mail Website wrote:

British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

I can't believe the ignorance of some people:mad: I mean who do they think they are! these two fellas had been cleared by airport security already! these people should be ashamed of themselves. yet there they are posing in a picture like they are victims of some attack.... the only victims were those two poor asian lads on the plane.

This human race of ours keeps making the same stupid mistakes and a mob mentality like this can only spread.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Shame on them.

i hope the asian lads sue for every single penny that they can. Thats ridiculous.

Hobbes

I hope they sue too. If it was up to me I'd fuk the others complaining off the plane for being disruptive.

OMG someone in an airport checking thier watch and badly dressed. Good thing we can find terrorists this way as I don't ever recall anyone looking like that before.

Reminds me of how Irish people where treated in the 70's tbh.

Carcharodon

That actually really makes me angry, the complete and utter ignorence of people is shocking.

I think that airport security is too extreme at the best of times, we cant live in fear all the time, it will always be the safest way to travell.

Zombrex

Can I get the British scumbag holiday makers kicked off my flight because they start talking about "birds" and football and how much they plan to drink on the flight .... :rolleyes:

Catsmokinpot

Wicknight wrote:

Can I get the British scumbag holiday makers kicked off my flight because they start talking about "birds" and football and how much they plan to drink on the flight .... :rolleyes:

seamus

Morons. I can't believe the airline removed the two men. They should have allowed whomever to disembark and then just left without them. I have no problem with passengers kicking up a stink over valid problems*, but asking for two people to be removed because they don't like them is pure racism.
What would happen if two Nordies got on and started speaking as Gaeilge? Nothing.

* For example, girlfriend's mate was getting onto a flight. There was an old freaky woman wandering around the terminal, talking to herself. Old woman queues to board the same flight as my gf's mate, she manages to spot the aul one's passport, and it's blatantly not her on it. Old woman manages to get on anyway, and ends up sitting in front of gf's mate, still muttering to herself, and fumbling in her bags. Gf's mate throws a wobbler and refuses to calm down until the air hostesses check the old woman again. They do, and promptly remove her from the flight. The air hostess thanked her - the old woman had a fake passport, several banned (though not necessarily dangerous) items in her bag, and had unsuccessfully attempted to board an earlier flight in the same terminal.

Zombrex

seamus wrote:

The air hostess thanked her - the old woman had a fake passport, several banned (though not necessarily dangerous) items in her bag, and had unsuccessfully attempted to board an earlier flight in the same terminal.

Off topic, but you are right Airport passport checks are a bit joke, especially with the budget airlines (not naming names but you know who I mean).

I have boared a flight with my dads passport by mistake (when we were travelling all together) and no one stopped me until my dad, behind me in the queue, realised the mistake. Yer one checking the passport didn't even seem to care that she just let me walk onto a plane with a passport that had a different name and a photo that looked nothing like me (my dad is in his fifties)

Sgt. Sensible

Wicknight wrote:

Off topic, but you are right Airport passport checks are a bit joke, especially with the budget airlines (not naming names but you know who I mean).

I have boared a flight with my dads passport by mistake (when we were travelling all together) and no one stopped me until my dad, behind me in the queue, realised the mistake. Yer one checking the passport didn't even seem to care that she just let me walk onto a plane with a passport that had a different name and a photo that looked nothing like me (my dad is in his fifties)

In Schonefeld airport (and all other german airports I think), the police check passports at arrival and before departure, regardless of what airline you use.

I've been following that story. It's pathetic. And the idiot family that had their picture in the papers should be ashamed of themselves. All AQ operatives have to do is get onto loads of flights, moan about other passengers and create airport chaos with delayed flights all over the place.

mike65

Sign of the times I'm afraid.

Mike.

Tar.Aldarion

I would sue. That is a disgrace. Also, i would have removed the holidaymakers rather fast with a polite boot in the arse and no refund.

Sarky

Wow. I'm amazed the airline actually did that. Pathetic show on their part, and particularly that of the "holidaymakers". Much as I dislike the culture of lawsuits, I'll be quite happy to see this one go to court.

Wibbs

Stupid alright. Fair play to the two "accused" guys being apparently chilled about the whole thing. I'm sure I would sue if I was in their shoes too, I must say.

As for the airline backing down, I can see why they did that. In fairness the potential of losing control of a bunch of people when their blood was up like that in the air may have had worse consequences. The captains responsibility is to the safety of the aircraft, passengers and crew. The way he handled it was the only practical way he could have, even if it sounds and is ridiculous in retrospect. A paranoid mob mentality is not a good thing at 25,000 feet(in old money). Just shows how frayed nerves are getting. I'm not sure how I would have dealt with it. I'd hope I'd not freak out like the rest, though I'm sure I would be worried as much about the crowd as any potential bombers, especially if drink was taken halfway through the flight.

Tar.Aldarion

They refused to fly, kick them the **** off.
I would have laid into, verbally, those idiots.

mike65

Very helpful

Mike.

Tar.Aldarion

It's a disgrace that people would not speak up for the two guys, get off the plane or shut u and sit down.
Yes, if people did not sit by like doe eyed dear it would be very helpful.

mike65

Tar.Alderton arrested in Malaga for inciting riot!

Mike.

Tar.Aldarion

This Tar.Alderton has a clever alias, with an eloquent debating style.

the_syco

mike65 wrote:

Sign of the times I'm afraid.

Mike.

Aye. You make terror. You make people fear terror. People will fear terror, and anyone they see as terror, they will turn on, tbh.

mike65

Sorry Tar! (I always read your name as Alderton!)

Mike.

Tar.Aldarion

You should hear some of the ones people come out with. Yours is veritable accuracy in comparison.

InFront

Get a room:p

Yeah pretty silly event, what can you do. I'd suspect it was a minority of the passengers creating the problem tbh. Hopefully we dont see more cases like that one:eek:

dr.bollocko

Ha ha

"The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic. "
Jesus, Not ARABIC!!!!
****! Next you'll be telling us they were showing images of mohammad on a popular newspaper.

"Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches. "

Jesus. Early in the morning on a flight, and they appeared to be covering themselves with thick clothes. Almost as if they had been expecting to... lie down at the airport or something. And as for checking their watches, jeez, one would even think they wanted to make sure they were getting to their flight on time.
Its just a sign of the xenophobic times. I mean George W. Bush cant even mention the word "terrorist" without prefacing it with the term "islamic" What a load of shi'ite.

InFront

dr.bollocko wrote:

What a load of shi'ite.

Very witty:D

dr.bollocko

Why is the daily mail's language so neutral on this topic?
Are they just scared of all muslims now?
Why isnt the headline some sort of printable version of "Small-minded English cünts ruin things for everyone as usual"?

Trode

dr.bollocko wrote:

Why is the daily mail's language so neutral on this topic?
Are they just scared of all muslims now?
Why isnt the headline some sort of printable version of "Small-minded English cünts ruin things for everyone as usual"?

Dude, it's the Daily Mail. You're lucky the headline wasn't "Islamofacist terrorist scum foiled by courageous English heroes. Where are our government now?!"

mike65

A plane flying from Schiphol airport turned back after cabin crew felt several passengers were behaving strangly. Dutch air-force scrambled!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5278092.stm

Mike.

dr.bollocko

The dutch airforce is always scrambled. Wouldn't you be? Weed and fighter jets. I'd be tits up. In the desert. Bombing every cave with a beard.

I think the airline is to blame for kicking the men off. I would have told whoever didn't like it to get off, and kept the men on board. I mean their idea of "suspicious behaviour" is laughable, who doesn't check their watch all the time at the airport? Plenty of people wear layers, especially when they don't want to be charged an arm and a leg for excess baggage, or going to England where it's likely cold on the other side. And what, will they ban people from speaking Arabic now as well? I'll bet the passengers were too ignorant to even know WHAT they were speaking, it could have easily been Urdu or Hindi.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Any reports of passengers protesting the non-asian policy? Were Orientals allowed on or do they originate from countries too close to the middle east?

I mean ffs - I would have went nuts. I would have just demanded the racists get off if they're not happy.

Anyone posting here "al-quaida looking" Asian? Have you been getting sh|t like this in any form since the latest alledged thwart of mass murder on a plane??

I sincerely hope not but this is really making me concerned.

Bottle of Smoke, my friend is a female Malaysian Muslim who wears a headscarf (but otherwise Western dress including make-up) and we
sometimes get comments like "go back to where you came from" and anti-Muslim remarks. Loads of people ask if she's from Afghanistan or Iraq, when she has very clearly south east Asian features. It's always thick and ignorant people who make the remarks, and I suspect the people who complained about the Muslim passengers were the same. Most people treat her normally and with respect.

dr.bollocko

PPl are stupid sheep. The only way to reverse this is not to educate ppl on why its wrong to discriminate and assume all slightly tanned ppl are terrorists.
Its if we had a bunch of white american protestant terrorists, or english, whatever. Throw the racist morons a terrorist curveball by getting white ppl to do the bombing. Then they wouldnt know who to discriminate against.

Muggy Dev

The two gentlemen in question were interviewed on BBC 2's Newsnight last night.Heres the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5278210.stm

Hobbes

yea watched it last night. Didn't come across as anything but students and took it quite well.

I can't believe this all started because some 12 year old girl started crying saying they where terrorists. I mean ffs they get checked out 3 times by security and they have a 12 year old girl doing the final spot check. :rolleyes:

leeroybrown

I'm reminded of a friend who works in London. He has a number of asian co-workers who for a few weeks after the London bombings were forcibly thrown off the bus they get to work by other passangers.

If this continues to happen on planes then the terrorists won't need bombs - just a load of asian students who will look a tiny bit suspicious just after a plane takes off.

bonkey

Events like this are sadly an inevitable byproduct of the way society has approached these problems.

The "liquid explosive" plot which sparked this all off was:

a) Tracked for a long time
b) Shut down before anything happened
c) never likely to succeed from a technical viewpoint

Despite these three facts, it gave rise to a knee-jerk "something must be seen to be done" response of a quality similar to what we witnessed post-911.

If you think about it, there is (almost?) nothing praiseworthy about the actions of the various authorities. The airports have obviously worked out their "enhanced security" measures in advance, but never implemented them until after a threat was made known to the public...which makes no sense. If there was a real threat, and these measures were an appropriate reasction, then they should be permanently in place and should have been in place long before this event occurred.

I could rant on about how dumb it all is, but I don't think there's a need.

Moving on, we have the media's role.

Rather than pointing out any of the above, the media have pandered to officialdom by playing up how scary the threat was and remains, playing down how stupid the security-reaction and its timing has been, and generally whipping up a frenzy about all the wrong things.

As a result, some amount of Joe Q Public will inevitably buy into their version of things, and events like this will occur.

Consider the following:

If airports were properly secure, then it is the people causing the rucus who should have been removed. The reason they were listened to at all is an implicit admission that airports are simply not secure.

Consider also that even with our non-secure airports, you could still fly daily and expect to live your entire life without a terrorist event occurring on your plane.....just like you go outside daily and expect to live your life without getting hit by lightning (which is still more likely).

And now for the kicker...

The media tell us that the Evil Tourists are targetting all of us, and want to shut down international air-traffic and all sorts of other hyperbole.

If you were one such Evil Tourist...where would you target next? Would you dream up a way of smuggling stuff onto a plane in your clothes, a way of smuggling it on in your luggage, or would you simply target the now-vastly-more-populated security-check areas where you can carry whatever you want right to the middle of the queue and then blow yourself up there.

It is no coincidence that the initial allegations were US-bound planes, and (if memory serves) were all US carriers. It is no coincidence that the other major European airlines' and airports reaction was to shrug and do only what was necessary.

I had a flight cancelled on the day all of this crap started. The following day, swiss airports had the policy that if you were flying to the US, Israel or the UK, you had additional security measures. If you ewre flying somewhere else, it was business as usual. I flew through Paris (having changed routes), where the French had exactly the same policy in place. A mate of mine flew to England a few days later, and cause he wasn't going to a major airport, his security was also more relaxed than it would have been going to Heathrow, Gatwick or Stanstead. But someone still want us to believe that every flight from everywhere to everywhere else is equally at risk....and that we're better off praising the morons who got these two lads kicked off their flight than we are in actually refusing to allow terrorism to terrorise us any more than is really necessary.

And of course...you can be damned sure that if the two lads kicked off wanted to make a fuss rather than be chill about the whole thing, they would be demonised for trying to pressure us into being "less secure" or some such guff.

One thing is for sure...the UK is now off my route. I'll pay a couple of hundred bucks more to fly through France, Germany, or go direct to do the Ireland/Switzerland run rather than go through that madhouse.

jc

dr.bollocko

The only point I would question is the mention that terrorists would find it easier to bomb a crowded security checkpoint. While this is true, I think its counter-productive for them to do so.
I think that terrorists are trying to acheive more than simply killing a few dozen or a few hundred or even thousand people. They are dealing in symbols, martyrs and history. The victims are an unfortunate byproduct of this.

The reason why they use planes is that the plane is essentially a dart.
If you get a dart in the foot it hurts, but its quickly forgotten about, but a dart right in the eye, ala that two planes crashing into the two buildings in New york, (what date did that happen again, nudge nudge wink wink) then its something that you will never forget.Its the symbol of power and the threat of terror from anywhere thats possibly more important to them.

bonkey

dr.bollocko wrote:

The only point I would question is the mention that terrorists would find it easier to bomb a crowded security checkpoint. While this is true, I think its counter-productive for them to do so.

By the same token, blowing up a chunk of planes using liquid explosives whilst they were crossing the atlantic is counter-productive.....but thats apparently what they were trying to do this time round.

The reason why they use planes is that the plane is essentially a dart.

Thats the reason they used planes on 911. Its not why public transport was targetted in either the Madrid nor London bombings. Its not why the latest group were allegedly targetting trans-atlantic UK/US flights with liquid explosive.

I'd go so far as to say that you can be pretty certain that any further targetting of planes will not be for similar purposes, and that if similar targets are attacked in the future, planes will not be the attack-vector.

As a result of 911, aircraft attacks have become far more symbolic than they previously were. Compare the reactions to this unsuccessful attack to those which followed even the most horrific successful attacks on aircraft prior to 911. They are now a symbol that terrorism can so easily leverage, rather than a tool with which to attack symbols.

Flight is still statistically one of the safest ways to travel, but just look at the impact a poorly-implemented, unsucessful attempt at an attack has had this time round. Once again, we have mass hysteria and another unhealthy dose of anti-Islam, anti-Arab, anti-Eastern, and anti-all-sorts-of-other-things sentiments. We have intrusive non-security reminding everyone who flies to be afraid, and a media to pass that message on to everyone else. In short, the attack achieved all of its ideological goals without even being carried out.

Why? Because people now seem the attack on a plane plane in terms of 911...even when they shouldn't. Attacks on planes are even more successful in terms of the terror that they engender because we can't dissociate them from 911.

These two Asian guys were victimised and the idiots who did it were feted as heroes by the national media. Ministers talk about the potential threat to the future of the entire commercial airline insustry. The list goes on.

911 was a gift to terrorists that just keeps on giving, and this is just the latest installment. Every time things seem to settle down, they just need to nudge the anthill again, and another frenzy ensues.

The loudest message in the days immediately post-911 was that we will not let these terrorists change our way of life. Pity so much of society (media included) never tried to live up to that, but rather have embraced fear and fear-driven change instead.

bonkey

Just following up somewhat....Schneier puts it all together quite well (as usual):

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/what_the_terror.html

Some excellent links off that article as well.

metrovelvet

bonkey wrote:

Once again, we have mass hysteria and another unhealthy dose of anti-Islam, anti-Arab, anti-Eastern, and anti-all-sorts-of-other-things sentiments. We have intrusive non-security reminding everyone who flies to be afraid, and a media to pass that message on to everyone else. In short, the attack achieved all of its ideological goals without even being carried out.

.

Yep. I just had $80 worth of makeup taken off me at the airport. Mascara I guess is a potential way to blow a plane. :rolleyes:

Im sooooooooooooooo sick of it. Im sorry to be OT for a second, but how can we live like this for any longer?

War or no war. We have lost. If we have to live like this, we are losers.

dr.bollocko

Live like what? Someone is a loser because they have 80 euro worth of make-up taken off them in an airport?
Pfffftttttt......
Not quite as bad as , for example, the holocaust...

metrovelvet

No. You dont understand. I was referring to what Bonkey said. The fact that that is the reality now makes us the losers. I was citing my own experience. Excuse me for living and for having an opinion.

dr.bollocko

Well while the mass-hysteria pervades the airwaves, any user based method of non-directed communication I have heard seems to be very strongly opposed to anti-islam sentiment, so, in fact, I applaud your opinion.
Got ur first post completely wrong too.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Myla Lively Pedal wrote:

Bottle of Smoke, my friend is a female Malaysian Muslim who wears a headscarf (but otherwise Western dress including make-up) and we
sometimes get comments like "go back to where you came from" and anti-Muslim remarks. Loads of people ask if she's from Afghanistan or Iraq, when she has very clearly south east Asian features. It's always thick and ignorant people who make the remarks, and I suspect the people who complained about the Muslim passengers were the same. Most people treat her normally and with respect.

It's good you\she realise that. I mean I kind of know the feeling because I look like I'm half chinese - and have gotten remarks like she has. When I was younger it upset me. It was only when I realised people who made those comments had issues of their own it stopped bothering me.

Wonder how it's going on the playgrounds. Kids say anything that comes into their heads & don't realise the effects their words can have/

Dave!

Sarky wrote:

Wow. I'm amazed the airline actually did that. Pathetic show on their part, and particularly that of the "holidaymakers". Much as I dislike the culture of lawsuits, I'll be quite happy to see this one go to court.

Yeah me too, appalling that the airline folded like that. Not surprising though, cos they're not gonna take a moral stance against this; they could let all the people who were uncomfortable, walk off the plane, and lose all of their money, or else they could remove the 2 Asian lads from the plane, refund them, and lose THEIR money. Easy choice for a commercial airline, but deplorable none the less.

InFront wrote:

Very witty:D

Indeed!

Hobbes wrote:

yea watched it last night. Didn't come across as anything but students and took it quite well.

Agreed, they didn't appear political or anything like that, just 2 ordinary students.

I hope they sue the pants off the airline, surely they'd have a great case for discrimination.

spurious

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Wonder how it's going on the playgrounds. Kids say anything that comes into their heads & don't realise the effects their words can have/

Kids say what they hear at home. No child is born racist.

dr.bollocko

I think the playground has a large effect, much more so than the home. If your peers are racist in school, or just ignorant and scared of slight differences, this can have a big influence on a small child.

spurious

I think if children have been brought up in a particular way by their parents, hearing ignorant racist rantings of others will not make them want to repeat them. Otherwise we would all use racist language, as we've all heard it at some stage.

Personally, I remember the first time I heard an adult use a racist name. I felt pity for them as to me it made them seem uneducated and ignorant, though I am sure that their intention was quite the opposite.

dr.bollocko

Its true, once you have x amount of experience and a tiny bit of cop on, even at a young age, racism shines through quite quickly. I remember cringing at some of my grandparents comments over dinner. It really makes me see red, throw-away racism.

grumpytrousers

Trode wrote:

Dude, it's the Daily Mail. You're lucky the headline wasn't "Islamofacist terrorist scum foiled by courageous English heroes. Where are our government now?!"

Tsk, it would have read

"Islamofacist terrorist scum foiled by courageous English heroes leads to property values fear in middle class areas"