Is this the end of the Oil Industry??

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

I would say it is a PR scam. Let me tell you of a similar company in Idaho. They claimed they had created a system that got more energy then you put in (through water).

Like the company here they made the same claims that scientists had ignored them and that they were going to the public to prove it worked. They got a mention in international papers.

Turned out it didn't work. Oh they created energy but you would not get more energy then you put in (it was basically a capicitor that was recharged by electrolisis). However the company itself was a huge pyramid scam.

The owners vanished after making lots of cash.

Now you see therein lies the issue Hobbes. Your scepticism (and you have every right to be sceptical without seeing the unit) makes you immediately equate Steorn with that company in Idaho. Now as I have already stated if this is a PR scam it is a bloody expensive and pointless one as PR scams are usually done to get something for nothing. If the owners were going to run off with the investors cash then they would have done that well before they spend a lot of € on this very very expensive announcement! Which would no doubt ruin their reputation and the reputation of all who work within Steorn.

Hobbes wrote:

Why are they doing that now publically when they claim they have already been refused? Why do they not name what scientific journels refused them? Why do they not post the details publically on thier website?

They have been refused, many times in fact! I'm sure a lot of it is down to the fact that in the past there have been con's, like the Idaho company you mentioned, so academics don't want to spend time on something when they steadfastly believe the laws of thermodynamics are unbreakable. In a way I guess it is academic arrogance: 'what we know now is all there is to know' etc

Hobbes wrote:

For that matter they claimed to post thier information in the Econimist but I had a look at the advert and it makes no such claims. All it tells is to go look at thier website which has no information on it either.

Again I push people to ask direct questions like that on the Steorn Forums as that I could not answer.

MeatProduct

Gurgle wrote:

here ya go

Thanks for the link, had read that one when it first came out back then.

Hobbes

Deleted User wrote:

Again I push people to ask direct questions like that on the Steorn Forums as that I could not answer.

Why link to a forum you can't post on?

Like I said, if they can prove it please point us to the actual information. I registered with the site to read the white paper but they have the site rigged so you can't view the white paper.

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Why link to a forum you can't post on?

Like I said, if they can prove it please point us to the actual information. I registered with the site to read the white paper but they have the site rigged so you can't view the white paper.

Sorry,wasnt aware the registration wasnt active. Will let them know.

MeatProduct

Hobbes wrote:

Lets see a guy who had managed to get a patent but has absolutly no working model but claims he can make a working model for 11 million and you have another where I can find absolutly no proof that his experiement worked.

Hobbes, I wasn't trying to prove a point, I wanted to illustrate that I've seen this sort of thing before and what it usually results in. There have been numerous scams with these sort of devices. It is not my stance that I don't believe that such devices are possible on the other hand.

That, however, does not assuage my lack of confidence in the scientific community. I'm a bit cynical about the mental flexibility and open-mindedness of it, this is purely my opinion and I've no intention to try to force that on anyone.

For anyone interested here's a link on "free energy" devices that has a few videos to look at.

Nick

sliabh

Carl Sagan put it nicely a few years ago.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

We have the claims. We have not seen any evidence. The "no one will go on the record for us" is a hallmark of a scam.

Even Fleischmann and Pons were able to publish research for their cold fusion. So why can't these guys?

My guess, because their technology doesn't exist.

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Why link to a forum you can't post on?

Like I said, if they can prove it please point us to the actual information. I registered with the site to read the white paper but they have the site rigged so you can't view the white paper.

Just found the link where you can register for the forums,it's hard to find!
http://www.steorn.net/forum/people.php?PostBackAction=ApplyForm

MeatProduct

sliabh wrote:

We have the claims. We have not seen any evidence. The "no one will go on the record for us" is a hallmark of a scam.

Well this is it. A video of it would be a start.

Nick

shayflanco

Hi All,

Just so you know Steorn has identified the issue with reg for the Forum and we are working on it - once we get the all clear will post reply on this board.

Also a comment not been able to access the Whitepaper - this is because we have to verify all requests for this - We are a small Irish tech company and we have been massively busy on this all day with different requests.

So will make sure we get everything done ASAP and let you guys know!

Cheers

S

shayflanco

Hi All,

Just so you know Steorn has identified the issue with reg for the Forum and we are working on it - once we get the all clear will post reply on this board.

Also a comment not been able to access the Whitepaper - this is because we have to verify all requests for this - We are a small Irish tech company and we have been massively busy on this all day with different requests.

So will make sure we get everything done ASAP and let you guys know!

Cheers

S

Ciaran500

Deleted User wrote:

Sorry,wasnt aware the registration wasnt active. Will let them know.

So what affiliation do you have with them?

mcgarnicle

Wikipedia wrote:

"Free energy" devices

The Casimir effect has established zero point energy as an uncontroversial and scientifically accepted phenomenon. However, due to a lack of public education in quantum mechanics, the term zero point energy has also become associated with a highly controversial area of human endeavour - the design and invention of so-called free energy devices, similar to perpetual motion machines in the past. These devices purport to "tap" the zero-point field and somehow "extract energy" from it, thus providing an "inexhaustible", cheap, and non-polluting energy source.

Controversy arises when such devices are promoted without scientifically acceptable proof that they tap the energy sources claimed. Promoters of a device demonstrate no understanding of how the device might do so; they demonstrate misunderstanding of widely accepted scientific facts and methods, in development or communication of a theory concerning a device; they make no attempt to include simpler explanations for the claimed performance of a device.

Any of these behaviours are liable to taint the reputations of those involved with such devices, and qualified researchers are therefore likely to be reluctant to make any attempt to verify or even seriously dismiss such a device until its promoters demonstrate enough competence to be taken seriously.

This is typical bs scam. Nixmix you obviously have a vested interest in this crap and are here trying to get others on board. I think it's clear nobody is buying it, either these guys can prove it works or they can't so far they haven't proven it which obviously leads people to assume that they can't.

Ciaran500

Ciaran500 wrote:

So what affiliation do you have with them?

To clarify things, I do not work for Steorn but have been aware of this for a while now.

However I have been following the goings on for the past 2-3 years as I know people in Steorn.

mcgarnicle

mcgarnicle wrote:

This is typical bs scam. Nixmix you obviously have a vested interest in this crap and are here trying to get others on board. I think it's clear nobody is buying it, either these guys can prove it works or they can't so far they haven't proven it which obviously leads people to assume that they can't.

If you say so mcgarnicle!
BTW this PR effort is all about proving it can work!!

Ciaran500

Deleted User wrote:

To clarify things, I do not work for Steorn but have been aware of this for a while now.

However I have been following the goings on for the past 2-3 years as I know people in Steorn.

Have you seen their device? Have you invested?

tja

Now as I have already stated if this is a PR scam it is a bloody expensive and pointless one as PR scams are usually done to get something for nothing

nixmix, you've mentioned this activity being expensive a number of times, but I wouldn't say its a particularly expensive means of generating publicity in comparison to say a TV advertising campaign. According to their rate card a full page ad in the Economist can be had for around 10K sterling and I'm sure that can be negotiated. The company couldn't possibly to pay for or provide the equipment to conduct the validation as that would amount to a conflict of interest. So this isnt really costing them an awful lot at all.

However I don't get the choice of the Economist given this statement:

Steorn has decided to publish its challenge in The Economist because of the breadth of its readership. "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because we want to make the general public aware that this process is about to commence and to generate public support, awareness, interest etc for what we are doing."

If your looking to generate public support, awareness and interest, why put an ad in the Economist? - which would have a much narrower appeal than any of the national broadsheets or tabloids. Furthermore as an Irish company, I'm certain RTE, TV3 etc would be only too delighted to give them all the publicity they would need? (TV3 will put anyone on the news).


Why the song and dance? If it worked as claimed, it would be easy to get publicity, scientific support and investment.
I suspect theres another agenda, but I'd love to be PROVEN wrong.

Ciaran500

Ciaran500 wrote:

Have you seen their device? Have you invested?

I wish!

Zapho

Well I assume they haven't published their work in a scientific magazine because then they'd have to be a lot more specific than "We just developed something that breaks the laws of physics". It makes sense seen as how its still patent pending, they don't want to release who it works until they are protected by a patent.

Nick_oliveri

Cant wait to see then end result, trolling or amazement.... hmmm!

Hobbes

Deleted User wrote:

BTW this PR effort is all about proving it can work!!

Here is how they can prove it works. Post actual scientific information. The closest I've seen on the site is the whitepaper which is not freely available.

And the best comebacks so far are "You don't know everything about science".

Even if we ignored the peer review, you would have scientists working on this with valid experience. Not even listed on the site either.

It makes sense seen as how its still patent pending, they don't want to release who it works until they are protected by a patent.

As mentioned perpetual motion machines require a working machine to be shown to the patent office before they will issue a patent. Also while its patent pending they generally are not allowed to discuss anything public at all.

David19

MeatProduct wrote:

For anyone interested here's a link on "free energy" devices that has a few videos to look at.

Nick

I watched some of the 1st video. It was mind numbingly stupid. If anyone wants a laugh give it a listen, everything from the 4th dimension to armageddon and the collapse of the world economy in 2008.

MeatProduct

tja wrote:

If your looking to generate public support, awareness and interest, why put an ad in the Economist? - which would have a much narrower appeal than any of the national broadsheets or tabloids. Furthermore as an Irish company, I'm certain RTE, TV3 etc would be only too delighted to give them all the publicity they would need? (TV3 will put anyone on the news).

Good point, that would indeed make life a lot easier for all involved. They could have published in a few other publications just to cover themselves from critism.

If people could actually see it on TV it would really make a mark. It's not scientific (I image it could be made so though) but it would certainly help their cause. However I don't know the details or the process involved in doing so.

Shayflanco, are you involved in the PR side? Do you have any insight into why this particular avenue is being persued?

Thank you,

Nick

lostexpectation

another article http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/05/21/story14326.asp

kinetic batteries for mobiles??? I remember my bro had a kinetic watch, that was just a semi circle of metal that moved around and drove a spring that... put power into a quartz somehow ????

are they gonna use kinetic movement and magnets to power mobiles, is the free energy people walking?

did anyone see those parafin power mobiles?

Nick_oliveri

This reminds me of an episode of the Lone Gunmen, an X-Files spin off.

They uncovered a car that ran on water, but in the end they decided not to release it to the world because of the economic ramifications. Plus they figured if every ejjit had a car there would be 10X more highways and general road turmoil!!

Ha imagine the Irish inventing free energy!! If this is a scam, where do you sign up to "financially contribute to the research"‽

jonski

Would the cynical among us think that maybe a little bit of pr would get someone interested enough to buy it out and hush it up or have I watched too many US tv series . Or would massive pr be enough to protect you and let you run with your discovery .

davidoc

They have a patent application for a "low energy magnetic actuator":

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO2006035419&F=0

sliabh

Wikipedia's entry on the history of perpetual motion machines has a long list of these schemes from the 1980's on that feature magnetic motors.

None has ever worked, and most were scams to get money from investors. A common theme to all of these is:

• They make great claims of free energy
• They refuse to actually show the machine or allow independent examination
• They never launch any commercial product

You also tend to see investors done out of money, and often looneys that claimed to speak to God or aliens for their inspiration.

Blowfish

That website is pretty poor, there are several innacuracies on it.

davidoc

shayflanco wrote:

Also a comment not been able to access the Whitepaper - this is because we have to verify all requests for this

Why do you have to "verify" the requests? Why not just give a direct link to it on the site?

You have copyright protection for the Whitepaper itself and your patent application provides protection for the invention itself (if it does cover the same invention).

Nick_oliveri

Maybe they have a different patent pending for a "high energy magnetic actuator"‽

‽ - I love it!