The School of Philosophy

lostexpectation

griffdaddy wrote:

that first sentence alone should set alarm bells ringing in anyone's head, regardless of philosophical education or lack thereof. They've clearly just decided to ignore over 2000 years of debate on ethics and morals, and subjectivity and objectivity and have solved everything. sounds pretty good, how much does it cost again?:D

what the definition of philisophy is love of wisdom, they only paraphrasing the definition

griffdaddy

lostexpectation wrote:

what the definition of philisophy is love of wisdom, they only paraphrasing the definition

it's impossible 'to act wisely in every situation.' Read 'Last Days of Socrates' by Plato, the Apologia dialogue.

daisyplant

Anyone got a more recent review on this organisation, was considering taking a course there and am in two minds now after reading this thread.

simplistic

If you want the best philosophical education you could ever receive for free , check out freedomainradio.com and there are over 1500 podcasts on there. The equivelent to a college education. It covers everything from economics to relationships and it has profoundly changed my life and my ability to think clearly.

rebelbelle

The school has branches all over the country (and the world). I'm attending classes in Cork and I can highly recommend the course. I'm in the second term now and find it fantastic.

I can't believe some of the things i've read in this thread! Really never heard anything about a dress code.

Yes, there is meditation involved, I haven't got to that stage yet though.

This course will change your thinking on life!

Joe1919

Beware of so called philosophy which is really only 'special pleading'. I would be wary about studying philosophy or doing any course that comes with an agenda or particular philosophical or political or religious position to promote.

That is not philosophy but 'special pleading'. (The finding of arguments for a conclusion given in advance.)

A good philosophy teacher (IMO) will allow you go in any direction you wish provided your arguments are rational.

keanooo

I've been going there for years Daisy. The introductory course is excellent and I'd recommend it to anyone. There are different tutors on different nights (in Dublin) so you may wish to 'shop around' before settling on one.

Tim Robbins

renedescartes wrote: »

Has anyone any views on what is taught by this group? I know that here was some talk some time ago about this being a cult! Can you throw some light on this.

I went 8 years ago. Calling it philosophy would the same as calling a religion philosophy. They have life beliefs they are trying to instill, you find out more about these beliefs the longer you hang around.

Some of them are rather strange such as a women having to wear a dress because she looks better that way.

I think anyone who was anyway good at logic or knew much about philosophy would cut through their nonsense very quickly.

I left after I had an argument with the head of the school. He annoyed me when he stated his personal belief was that people who had cancer were selfish in their last life. I just thought he was clueless. I asked him what he thought of the electromagnetic wave spectrum and several other things anyone with a modicum of scientific knowledge would know about and he hadn't a clue about any of them.

He used a lot of propaganda techniques to make and argue all his points.

I am not sure how much money they end up taking from you. When I went it started off cheap but I heard rumours it didn't stay that way.

I am also perplexed as to the amount of ads they have in the Irish Times.

Tim Robbins

About the dress code, that is true. It "slipped out" towards the end of the second course I did. I ended up having a 30 minute argument with the head of the school, Shane about it. And then never went back.

Basically I ask him what had dress and clothes got to with philosophy, he said philosophy encompasses everything and I just didn't understand it followed by a load of other nonsense including that it could be proven that a women always looked better in a dress therefore she should wear one. I said surely it's all subjective what she looks better in, he was adamant that it could proven but I just couldn't understand it.

I think a lot of people attending this course are looking for some sort of self help and end up hearing a load of babble with some philosophical buzzwords thrown in. So he'll read a paragraph of plato and then go way off on a tangent talking about how to control stress in your relationships, with about 50 leaps in logic along the way.

If you question him, he has very clever techniques for controlling it. One I noticed was he'd answer back with a question about your personal life. Something you might feel awkard answering. So you pick a hole in his logic and you get back "does the thought of dieing scare you?"

He is very good at this.

I got the impression no-one who went to these courses knew anything about philosophy at the time. And anyone who has leaves pretty quickly. In some respects he crazier than any religion as at least they invoke the "faith" clause, he thinks he can prove everything.

Lemondrop kid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am also perplexed as to the amount of ads they have in the Irish Times.

Yes, this surprises me too - can't swear there is an individual in both with kudos, but suspect so. It's not a Philosophy course 'as we know it Jim'. It's Eastern thingymajig. They're ok people, but a little lost in fuzzy absolutes. There was a damning book written about them, but it was a bit off the mark - ie not quite a cult as the def goes.
In short they're crazies, but not malicious crazies.

CFlower

renedescartes wrote: »

Has anyone any views on what is taught by this group? I know that here was some talk some time ago about this being a cult! Can you throw some light on this.

"School of Practical Philosophy" - it is a Hindu cult. If you google you'll find the information.

They also use Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) techniques.

The last thing you'll learn is how to think.

Tim Robbins

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Yes, this surprises me too - can't swear there is an individual in both with kudos, but suspect so. It's not a Philosophy course 'as we know it Jim'. It's Eastern thingymajig. They're ok people, but a little lost in fuzzy absolutes. There was a damning book written about them, but it was a bit off the mark - ie not quite a cult as the def goes.
In short they're crazies, but not malicious crazies.

It's hard to know how dangerous they are unless you know all their secrets.
Where do they get all their money for those expensive ads in the times?

I would love to see your man Shane up against someone, anyone who knew about philosophy, science or critical thinking as I think his nonsense would fall apart in record time.

Lemondrop kid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's hard to know how dangerous they are unless you know all their secrets.

Could easily be said of most religions (and they are more religion than philosophy)
Where do they get all their money for those expensive ads in the times?

Reckon it's 'donated', but don't know for sure
I would love to see your man Shane up against someone, anyone who knew about philosophy, science or critical thinking as I think his nonsense would fall apart in record time.

Why? Same as any 'absolute' seeker who happen to find 'it'. Let them off with a sad smile of sympathy. Compared to most institutions, these aren't so bad. Not that I'm suggesting anyone interested in philosophy should join them , far from it, but that they are well meaning nutters, that's all.

Tim Robbins

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Why? Same as any 'absolute' seeker who happen to find 'it'. Let them off with a sad smile of sympathy. Compared to most institutions, these aren't so bad. Not that I'm suggesting anyone interested in philosophy should join them , far from it, but that they are well meaning nutters, that's all.

Religions get a huge amount of criticism in public discourse, particularly from the likes of Dawkins et al. In some respects they are controlled irrational clubs which satisfy some human needs a lot of people have.

This crowd pretend they are an intellectual club and they then pounce on some vunerable people who should really be going to see a pyschotherapist.
They get no criticism from anyone except the odd website like this.

If the RC church put front page ads in the Irish Times looking for new members you could imagine what would be in the letters page. This quasi cult gets away with it.

Shield

This is not a forum for bashing religions. Bring it back on topic now.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Religions get a huge amount of criticism in public discourse, particularly from the likes of Dawkins et al. In some respects they are controlled irrational clubs which satisfy some human needs a lot of people have.

This crowd pretend they are an intellectual club and they then pounce on some vunerable people who should really be going to see a pyschotherapist.
They get no criticism from anyone except the odd website like this.

If the RC church put front page ads in the Irish Times looking for new members you could imagine what would be in the letters page. This quasi cult gets away with it.

CFlower

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Religions get a huge amount of criticism in public discourse, particularly from the likes of Dawkins et al. In some respects they are controlled irrational clubs which satisfy some human needs a lot of people have.

This crowd pretend they are an intellectual club and they then pounce on some vunerable people who should really be going to see a pyschotherapist.
They get no criticism from anyone except the odd website like this.

If the RC church put front page ads in the Irish Times looking for new members you could imagine what would be in the letters page. This quasi cult gets away with it.

+ 1

One aspect of the cult in the subjugation of women.

And they use conciously manipulative techniques. They lure people in who want to explore ideas and theory of knowledge and try to hook them into a hierarchical system of "higher levels" that is a classic feature of any cult.

CFlower

psni wrote: »

This is not a forum for bashing religions. Bring it back on topic now.

The group under discussion is a Hindu cult masquerading as a Philosophy School. It's not possible to discuss it without discussing its religious aspect.

Tim Robbins

psni wrote: »

This is not a forum for bashing religions. Bring it back on topic now.

Of course it isn't. But comparisons between this crowd and religions are inevitable.

All I was doing was differentiating.

Shield

Discussing it is fine, accusing it of being a cult and using manipulative techniques is another. That's not what this forum is for.

Tim Robbins

psni wrote: »

Discussing it is fine, accusing it of being a cult and using manipulative techniques is another. That's not what this forum is for.

This seems odd in a philosophy forum. And I am put confused. Are you giving out abot my criticism of the pusedo-philosophy club or religion.

Ok I'll put it this way, I define a "cult" as an organisation that:

1. Does not encourage criticism of its own ideas from outside that organisation
2. Takes people money
3. Tells people who they can and can't have relationships with
4. Uses manipulative (non-scientific, non-logical, non-empiracle) techniques to influence people's thinking

The pseudo philosophical club ticks all those boxes. That's speaking from experience (attended level 1 and 2, 8 years ago). What other word can I use if I can't call it a cult?

I see a reasonable "a posterai" argument for why it is logical to categorise it as a cult.

IT's certainly not a philosophical organisation. How dare they use that word? Gross manipulation on their part.

I'm interested as to why I can't call it a cult. Is there something in the definition of the cult which would exclude them?

Can I have a logical reason? This is philosophy after all...

extrinzic

Philosophical schools of thought are exactly that, philosophical schools in particular tradition. Be it Hindu mysticism, or materialist Marxism, what is philosophy if it is not concerned with some philosophical school of thought? Studding philosophy academically is different to practicing a particular philosophy. The academic studies them from an analytical, objectifying approach; the philosophical student immerses themselves in the material, understanding it from the inside out. I don’t agree with the teachings of this particular school, but they are no more guilty of BS than Christianity, or any other bias educational institution. I don’t believe they are hurting anybody, and as for taking money, well, money makes the world revolve. Heated classrooms cost money.

CFlower

psni wrote: »

Discussing it is fine, accusing it of being a cult and using manipulative techniques is another. That's not what this forum is for.

Is it that you would like substantiation for this? That seems fair enough. I'll try to find time to come back and provide some linked sources.

However, if a group which has all the characteristics of a religious cult sets itself up as a purveyor of Philosophy courses, then, if that is not pointed out, a cover-up is being assisted. It would be more honest to close the thread and censor all discussion than to facilitate an incomplete, censored discussion.

Religion and philosophy are not the same things. Philosophy primarily deals with theory of knowledge, and modern philosophy is science-based. Religion deals with belief: the spiritual/irrational.

Shield

This post:

Tim Robbins wrote: »

This crowd pretend they are an intellectual club and they then pounce on some vunerable people who should really be going to see a pyschotherapist.

is vastly different from this:

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Ok I'll put it this way, I define a "cult" as an organisation that:

1. Does not encourage criticism of its own ideas from outside that organisation
2. Takes people money
3. Tells people who they can and can't have relationships with
4. Uses manipulative (non-scientific, non-logical, non-empiracle) techniques to influence people's thinking

The pseudo philosophical club ticks all those boxes. That's speaking from experience (attended level 1 and 2, 8 years ago). What other word can I use if I can't call it a cult?

I see a reasonable "a posterai" argument for why it is logical to categorise it as a cult.

In your first post, you made a statement which could potentially damage their business and land Boards.ie Ltd in a lot of legal hot water. The second post was much better, giving reasons for your thinking.

You're right, this is Philosophy. It's where we reason out our thinking and give our informed and respectful opinions on a variety of things. We do not accuse companies of anything unless it can be or has been objectively demonstrated and observed.

Now, let's bring it back on topic.

Ta.

Tim Robbins

According to this post, Belgium has decreed that they are a cult.

extrinzic wrote:

what is philosophy if it is not concerned with some philosophical school of thought?

Basic philosophy is about the structure of an argument, the axiom, the premise and then working the way to a conclusion.

It's usually more about questions than answers.

This club, in my experience was more about answers which had no reasons. They were themselves axiomatic and if accepted as axiomatic it would become clear that they were axiomatic.

So a women should always wear a dress? Why? Because she should just wear a dress and if she did that she'd realise it and so would you.

extrinzic

Ok, I get what you mean when you use the word philosophy. I'm not going to argue with it as I understand philosophy in the same vain. If you feel they have unjustly used the word philosophy in their organisations name, you should take it up with them. I really don't care one way or the other. I don't know much about the dark aspects of the school of philosophy, but given that it is a human creation, I have no doubts that it has undesirable elements. I just don't feel as threatened by the organisation as you appear to be. I went along to a semester, and it was interesting, if not earth shattering. There was no cult leader, no orgies, no oaths, no child sacrifices, nada. Who cares what they do to be honest? Belgium may have a legitimate reason to be suspicious of the school of philosophy in Belgium, but I can't see why anybody would be upset about the Irish operation. They just seem to offer refuge to people who can't take the Catholic church seriously anymore, and who would blame them.

Tim Robbins

extrinzic wrote: »

They just seem to offer refuge to people who can't take the Catholic church seriously anymore, and who would blame them.

I'm not sure how to reply to that as we were warned not to talk about religion.

But if I may say, if you don't like Catholicism, there's plenty of other options than the school of philosophy. If you are spiritual, you could try the quakers, the unitarian church, a buddhist group or if you are not spiritual and wish to meet fellow atheists or agnostics there's the Irish Humanist society.

If you are interested in philosophy you could just go to your local library or do plenty of courses offered by the universities.

I don't see what this school has to offer anyone. I'd give it 1 / 10 for philosophy and intellectual content. And I'd give it 8 / 10 for weirdness for reasons already discussed.

I'd love if someone from the school appeared and picked any philosophical topic and we could debate it. So if you are listening, watching or viewing - how about it?

daisyplant

Wow, I think I am more inclined to do the course now than I was when I first posted, just out of curiosity:) Part of the appeal, Tim Robbins, is that it only costs €150 for a term. If you can recommend a uni that offers a course at the same cost I'd gladly look into it.

Tim Robbins

daisyplant wrote: »

Wow, I think I am more inclined to do the course now than I was when I first posted, just out of curiosity:) Part of the appeal, Tim Robbins, is that it only costs €150 for a term. If you can recommend a uni that offers a course at the same cost I'd gladly look into it.

You'd get, 'The History of Western Philosophy' by Bertrand Russell for 15 euro!

CFlower

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You'd get, 'The History of Western Philosophy' by Bertrand Russell for 15 euro!

I think Daisy raises a point. These Hindu people attract a lot of people who are looking for proper philosophy classes that teach a history of philosophy and an outline of current trends in philosophy.

Perhaps the VECs should put them on as evening classes. The difficulty perhaps is finding teachers who are not pushing their own religious or other agenda.

daisyplant

Very good suggestion cflower, I know a few people in the VEC's so I will suggest it to them. It would probably take them several years to get around to it mind you. I'm glad I did a bit of research before signing up, I am pretty sceptical by nature so it is highly unlikely I will be brain washed by them. Watch this space though if I start preaching in a few months time you will know what happened:D