how to train effectively in order to lose weight & perform athletically?

hunnymonster

I guess this is a little cheeky, looking for advice for a very specific situation but I can't find a scientific answer anywhere.

By most sports scientist's definitions I am extremely fit (* Strength * Power * Agility * Balance * Flexibility * Local Muscle Endurance * Cardiovascular Endurance * Strength Endurance * Co-ordination)

My preferred activites are endurance focused sports.

My problem is that I'm about 2.5 stone overweight and It's not shifting. I know that at the end of the day calories in must be less than calories out but I'm not eating huge amounts. It's mostly low fat food. I did have some metabolic problems years ago and the doc's did tell me my metabolism would never be the same (to the extend of slowing 25%)

Some things that I know are wrong in my diet are
- I drink wayyyyyy too much diet coke
- often to try and fit everything inm I end up shouveling 90% of my days calories into me just before bed
- A lot of the food I end up eating is highly processed. I do try to pick the less refined versions but with little spare time (work 90+ hours and train 20 +) it doesn't happen as much as I'd like.


I've also been hearing about nutrition in relation to training a lot recently. SOme of the things that appear to be fairly well understood are

- training before breakfast promotes fat burning
- training at 65% HR promotes fat burning
- eating high quality protein after workout promotes growth and regeneration

The things I don't have a handle on are, if my pre brekkie sessions are long (2+ hrs) am I better to eat something and "fuel" the fat burning & maintain the performance level or stay fasting?

If I need to do two sports in one day am I better to do one session directly after the other or one in the morning and one in the evening? How do I organise nutriton for this?


Sorry about the long post. I guess I'm just looking for some opinions to see what the best way forward is?

Reyman

hunnymonster wrote:

e
- often to try and fit everything inm I end up shouveling 90% of my days calories into me just before bed

Just one short comment --
This is the worst thing you could do if you're trying to lose weight . Have a look at some previous threads here --- eating after 7.00pm is verboten.

The calories go straight on to your waist.

hunnymonster

thanks for the reply. My problem is that for every post I read saying "don't eat late" there is another one saying "the only thing that matters is the total cal's". Someone must have investigated this secientifically. The problem with being a physicist is wanting proof for everything!

g'em

eating after 7pm isn't verboten, but then eating 90% of your daily cals right before you go to bed isn't very clever either.

food and calories are your body's food source. You eat, your body uses it to make compounds that are 'burnt' for energy. If that energy source isn't used it gets stored as fat (very much simplifying things here).

So if you eat late at night and go straight to bed, your body will have no where to use that energy and it will be stored. However, sleeping for teh usual 7 or eight hours a night is a long time for your body to go without food. So its perfectly fine to fuel it with the right foods before heading off to slumberland- eat protein based snacks as opposed to carb ones.

If nothing else eating 90% of your daily calories all in one go is a crap idea- smaller meals eaten frequently will keep your metabolism running on high

justsomebloke

hunnymonster wrote:

My problem is that for every post I read saying "don't eat late" there is another one saying "the only thing that matters is the total cal's". Someone must have investigated this secientifically. The problem with being a physicist is wanting proof for everything!

ok the train of thought tha you seem to be using is the "only thing that matters is the total cal's", and is it working no. So by pure deduction it is time to at least try the other method and see if that works.

so aim for 5 meals a day, try and work out your daily calorific requirements (using the stickies) and then rougly split it in 5. But the main thing to do is try and get good quality foods into you and cut out all the processed foods.

In relation to the pre brekkie workout, if you do go down this route make sure it is Low intensity training i.e. 60% of max heart rate so that you are targeting your fat reserves, if you are planning anything more strenous then have breakfast before hand as you aren't going to be using targeting fat reserves so there is no point in not eating.

In relation to the 2 sports things what sports are you talking about.

Also could i suggest try doing High intensity interval training and a decent weights programme as these could help increae your metabloism

hunnymonster

The sports I'm involved in at a competitative level are running, cycling, swimming, triathlon and rowing. I play a bit of tennis and camogie but purely for fun.

I do quite a few intervals for runnning. My max HR is 200. I do intervals at 175-180, letting it drop back to about 120 before the next one. I know I should be more diligent about weight training but I in terms of enjoyment, it give me nothing so I do tend to let it slip.

Thanks for the replies folks. I appreciate you taking the time to give your opinions.

MrJones

You just need to get into a better routine diet-wise. Its just about changing your mindset and bad habits(such as eating alot late at night).

t-ha

hunnymonster wrote:

thanks for the reply. My problem is that for every post I read saying "don't eat late" there is another one saying "the only thing that matters is the total cal's". Someone must have investigated this secientifically. The problem with being a physicist is wanting proof for everything!

Actually it's the balance between the calories you take in & those you expend. If you eat everything before bed then you don't tend to be as active generally as someone who eats earlier in the day. Also, doing everything by calories isn't the best idea anyway as that really only determines weight gain/loss. The type of weight you gain & lose will depend on what you eat and when you eat it, when you work out and what exercise you do. There's pretty detailed info on it in the stickies.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

BrianD3

I find a lot strange about this thread TBH. A physicist who works NINETY PLUS hours per week, trains 20+ hours on top of that, skips meals, yet still manages to compete in triathlons, cycling, rowing etc. That sort of lifestyle would kill most people in my opinion, you must be doing something right if you can keep that up.

I was reading a profile on Derval O'Rourke the other day and her training and lifestyle is a breeze in comparison.

hunnymonster

I can fit it all in if I sleep less than I should and centre most of my social life around sport. I realise it's not normal behaviour.

BrianD3

I can fit it all in if I sleep less than I should

How come you didn't mention that in the original post? Getting enough sleep is essential for someone who pushes themself as hard as you seem to. The fact that you haven't time to either sleep or eat properly says to me that you are overreaching big time and something has to give.

Transform

And still no post on a detailed description of your diet???

You have answered most of your questions already without much assistance.

Finally, all things come to those who hussle while the others wait

I.E. stop looking for 'proof', clearly your own method is not working so bloody change.

Reyman

Good man Transform!

A spade is ......

hunnymonster

Thanks daveIRL, The book looks good.

Transform, sorry, I must have missed where I was asked for the diet details.

I'm not very structured about the diet but roughtly speaking

up and do an hour or two exercise (low heart rate stuff)
breakfast is at work so either chopped fruits in yoghurt or museli (sp?), occasionally I've have a scone from the cafe

usually more fruit or a piece of toast mid morning

lunch, if I manage it, is about 3pm and could be anything. some examples soup, bags of that ready chopped salad with a tin of tuna, a wrap ... nothing very exciting

If I'm exercising mid afternoon, I'll try and take OJ or something with energy in it a while before. ditto if I'm exercising later in the evening

teatime/evening, depending on duration of the morning easy session, I'll either do something easy like a swim or hard like intervals or hills running at night,

Then when I get home I have my main meal. again, it's your typical fare, last night was spuds, dry fried in a pan with a chicken breast and tub of coleslaw. It does tend to be a big portion though, a very full dinner plate. And if I'm not home until 11 or so it can be takeaway - usually chinese or italian.

I would consider I don't eat a lot of the crisps, chocolate junk (though you guys might be screaming something different at me). Roughtly speaking, about once a week there would be a mini-binge on biscuits or similar. That's probably the easiest thing to rectify. Dunno why I've not done it. The once or twice I've gone to the effort of weighing what I eat etc, I've only come up with a figure of about 2500 kCal a day. Given how active I am, I still don't get the lack of weight loss.

Dragan

Reyman wrote:

A spade is ......

for digging!!!!!

As already mentioned OP, you need to make changes, and we can only really help if we get lots of detail on your diet.

Edit, you just got in ahead of me!!!

Give me a few mins to read over you diet in detail!!

hunnymonster

Transform, the problem is knowing what to change to.... with so much conflicting advise out there do you not think it's useful to have a scientific approach.... If it's a process of elimination then so be it but then at least someone should be able to say
"it's been shown that X works for some people and Y for others....."

daveirl

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hunnymonster

Dave, could you tell me more about "in and around the hours you do the exercise". The sports physiologist who gave me advice, said not to train within 4 hours of eating. Given the amount I do that's not possible but I have been trying to leave the longest gaps I can.


The book appears to be out of print but I think I've found a library copy I can borrow.

Dragan

hunnymonster wrote:

The sports physiologist who gave me advice, said not to train within 4 hours of eating.

I hope you didn't pay him. Did he give any reason for this, or just offer it up as a statement?

My last meal is about 90 mins before training....i do this as it helps my energy levels and performance and ensures i have a nice stream of amino acids and glycogen during my workout.

Dave is spot on, just before and just after workouts are two very important meals, as the first fuels the workout, the second fuels recovery.

hunnymonster

He said that to encourage fat burning during exercise (which is what I wanted, He measured my body composition as 28% fat) the stomach needs to be empty. He estimated that to take about 4 hours.

hunnymonster

Dragan, How are the amino acids used during your workout? I vaguely remember hearing something about generating free nitrogen in order to produce ATP but surely you're talking about a seriously long session for that? (resolves to revisit biochem 101)

daveirl

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BossArky

hunnymonster wrote:

work 90+ hours and train 20 +what the best way forward is?

Did you mean that you work 90 hours, and 20 hours of that is training... i.e. you only work 70 hours a week...... or do you actually work 90 hours a week? :eek:

5 days a week that averages to 18 hour days.
6 days a week that averages to 15 hour days.

Are you sure that you mean 90? Are you working on Irelands nuclear deterrent or something? (I'm not taking the pi$$, it just seems unbelieveable)

hunnymonster

I work 90 hours a week over 6-7 days (rarely just 5). Some of it is on-call work so I have to be in the building but I can hit the threadmill or turbotrainer (stationary bike). Also on call one night a week. How busy that is depends on the time of year. So 90 hours clocked in, not all stuck at the computer. I get generous holidays as compensation though. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not superwoman!

MrJones

i've been reading this thread and i assumed you were a man. oops!!:eek:

hunnymonster

My gender doens't really make a difference to the advice though, does it? Probably only in so far as I'm shorter and therefore 2.5 stone is a bigge proportion of the total!

Dragan

hunnymonster wrote:

My gender doens't really make a difference to the advice though, does it? Probably only in so far as I'm shorter and therefore 2.5 stone is a bigge proportion of the total!

Depending on the advice yeah....different muscle fibre distribution, hormonal responses would be something i would factor depending on someone being male or female.

This is really as simply as diet though.

BossArky

There's only one way to solve this: post a pic

Transform

I agree with Dragan - your diet is the main factor and at your current weight i would recommend ABSOLUTELY NO HIGHER INTENSITY CARDIO AT ALL!!!

Get to a lighter weight then focus on the quicker stuff.

Again i would also suggest reading the previous posts on nutrition - overall if you were my client i would simply tell you to not eat after 9pm and cut your portions in half.

What supplements you take?

tunney

HunnyMonster, I'm curious as to someone that will be building their running up to 120 miles a week as you've mentioned in another thread can have any weight problems regardless of what/when they eat.

hunnymonster

Ca (I've osteoporosis), multi vit, EPA/DHA (because I dislike fish). in week before and after a major endurance event I'll add som Zn, Echinacea and vit C.

Anyway, I've started to try the suggestions.
Last night had dinner at 9:15 straight after getting in from my long run, lasagne I had made myself.

This morning I had museli/milk at 6am, ran 90 min at 7:30, had fruit and brown toast straight after run, salad with chicken at lunchtime. I've a race this weekend so not doing anything else this evening.

Sound ok? It looks like the advice is to get the diet sorted out as a stand alone issure, rather than in conjunction with exercise. At this stage at least.