Just not on

FullOf..IT

Hi,

I came home from work today to find my little sister a little upset.

About half an hour before i came home a couple of fanatics knocked at my house and proceded to ask my sisters certain questions about the commitment of her faith and how she applied it (does she go to mass etc). She told them that she didnt and they asked her had her father died and did he go to mass (my da died in 1992). They obviously knew that he was deceased and then they said that she would go to hell because she didnt go to mass.

This didnt really bother her but then they said that my da was in hell because he didnt go to mass ( my da was a protestant although he didnt practice). She shut the door and start crying until I found her.

Who do these people think they are saying these things.
I am not a devoted christian but i try to lead a life that does no harm to others and i try to look for the good in everyone and these are the principles i try to install in my sister.

If devoted catholics are going round using inquisition style tatics to influence people to practice a faith which I feel has been taken out of context for personal greed then i look forward to the day that it becomes obsolete.

BrianCalgary

I am so sorry for what happened. People like that I think are going to have to answer for their actions.

IMO actions like that turn people away from God.

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

I am so sorry for what happened. People like that I think are going to have to answer for their actions.

IMO actions like that turn people away from God.

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Do you believe the father is in Hell?

robnubis

If ppl need to go door to door to preach releigion, then they have lowered that releigion to the same levels door to door sales people...

Puck

Let me state this as clear as I can (... with the usual blahblah this is only what I believe blah blah blah you are entitled to your own beliefs blah blah lets all be friends disclaimer):

Not going to mass will not condemn you to hell. These people are arseholes. Whether they truly believe what they said or not, their intention in saying it like they did could only have been to hurt your little sister. I'm very sorry she was bullied by these people. Sometimes I'd like to think Jesus would slap them "upside the head" but he'd probably have a better way of handleing it than that.

robindch

> a couple of fanatics knocked at my house and proceded to ask

I sympathize. Last saturday morning, here in Sandymount, I had two JW Koreans turn up trying to sell me their own-brand religion, so I told them I was an atheist and that seemed to do the trick after a bit of polite backing and forthing. Though even the claim to atheism didn't work with one group of local catholics who tried to guilt-trip me into supporting them. Horrible!

> they have lowered that releigion to the same levels door to door sales people...

Some people claim that the established religions don't have to do the door-to-door because they've already got the schools and wide public support; or, if you're in the US, they've got the congress, the senate, the presidency, some of the judiciary and some of the supreme court as well...

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

Do you believe the father is in Hell?

I don't know, because I don't know the dad or anything about his relationship to God.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

I don't know, because I don't know the dad or anything about his relationship to God.

Apparently he was a non-practicing Protestant. So, presumably, he was baptised at birth but had no religious involvement or interest in adulthood. Correct me if I'm wrong, FullOf..IT.

Would such a person be damned, BC?

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

Apparently he was a non-practicing Protestant. So, presumably, he was baptised at birth but had no religious involvement or interest in adulthood. Correct me if I'm wrong, FullOf..IT.

Would such a person be damned, BC?

There is no way that I can make a judgement on someone I have never met.

FullOf..IT

Sapien wrote:

Apparently he was a non-practicing Protestant. So, presumably, he was baptised at birth but had no religious involvement or interest in adulthood. Correct me if I'm wrong, FullOf..IT.

You have it about right. He wasnt an athesist as he believed in a higher being but as I said he didnt practice christianity. I myself cannot stand organised religion as most of the vealots are very hypocritical and do not truely practice the teachings of christ / mohammed / buddha etc.

Whats drives me crazy is that people who drink out of golden chalices and wear fancy sunday clothes have probably condemned me and my pagan family to hell.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

There is no way that I can make a judgement on someone I have never met.

Why not? You are in possession of the salient facts. Have the courage of your convictions.

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

Why not? You are in possession of the salient facts. Have the courage of your convictions.

I have my convictions, they are clear, but I DO NOT know the person in question. It is up to God to make the judgement. As Full of it said: 'Whats drives me crazy is that people who drink out of golden chalices and wear fancy sunday clothes have probably condemned me and my pagan family to hell.'

It is up to God to grant someone their eternal wish, not I.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

I have my convictions, they are clear, but I DO NOT know the person in question. It is up to God to make the judgement. As Full of it said: 'Whats drives me crazy is that people who drink out of golden chalices and wear fancy sunday clothes have probably condemned me and my pagan family to hell.'

It is up to God to grant someone their eternal wish, not I.

Are yo saying that you do not know what actions lead to damnation, and what actions lead to salvation?

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

Are yo saying that you do not know what actions lead to damnation, and what actions lead to salvation?

Accepting Jesus as your saviour and asking for redemption of your sin shows a desire to be in full communion with God. He then grants you your hearts desire.

Not accepting Christ, not deisring a relationship with God, He honours your desire here as well.

Acceptance brings Heaven, rejection brings Hell.

I have no idea where our subjects heart is, how could I know since I never met him and he never told me where his heart lay?

UU

Honestly will you please leave Brian alone! It says in the Bible that it is up to God to judge where a person's destiny lies, not Brian. Brian is sticking by his beliefs, and I respect him for that. Christians aren't supposed to judge others, that is God's role. They are supposed to love everyone, that's what it says in the Bible.

I'm sorry OP for what happened. People like that have absolutely no right to come to your door like that. Actually, they are trespassing on your property! I don't have many religious fanatics calling to my door, selling their religion where I live. Although, I do remember once that Jehovah Witnesses called to the door. They are so cheeky! They said to my mother that they are "conducting a neighbourhood survey". My mother said if it's got anything to do with religion, she's not filling it in. They said no. Then she looks at it and the first question was "Do you believe in the existance of God?". Fustrated, my mother threw the survey in their face and told them to leave so they left. Obviously, lying is permitted in JW as they're quite well known for it!

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

Accepting Jesus as your saviour and asking for redemption of your sin shows a desire to be in full communion with God. He then grants you your hearts desire.

Not accepting Christ, not deisring a relationship with God, He honours your desire here as well.

Acceptance brings Heaven, rejection brings Hell.

I have no idea where our subjects heart is, how could I know since I never met him and he never told me where his heart lay?

Quoth his own child:

FullOf..IT wrote:

he didnt practice christianity

In other words, he did not accept Jesus as his saviour, he did not ask redemption for his sins, he did not desire to be in communion with God.

Given this, do you believe that FullOf..IT's father is in Hell?

lostexpectation

FullOf..IT wrote:

Hi,

I came home from work today to find my little sister a little upset.

About half an hour before i came home a couple of fanatics knocked at my house and proceded to ask my sisters certain questions about the commitment of her faith and how she applied it (does she go to mass etc). She told them that she didnt and they asked her had her father died and did he go to mass (my da died in 1992). They obviously knew that he was deceased and then they said that she would go to hell because she didnt go to mass.

This didnt really bother her but then they said that my da was in hell because he didnt go to mass ( my da was a protestant although he didnt practice). She shut the door and start crying until I found her.

Who do these people think they are saying these things.
I am not a devoted christian but i try to lead a life that does no harm to others and i try to look for the good in everyone and these are the principles i try to install in my sister.

If devoted catholics are going round using inquisition style tatics to influence people to practice a faith which I feel has been taken out of context for personal greed then i look forward to the day that it becomes obsolete.

how did they know the father was dead?

you should tell the police or the local councillor find out who the org is...

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

Quoth his own child:

In other words, he did not accept Jesus as his saviour, he did not ask redemption for his sins, he did not desire to be in communion with God.

Given this, do you believe that FullOf..IT's father is in Hell?

Sapien, what part do you not understand?

I have no idea where our subjects heart is, how could I know since I never met him and he never told me where his heart lay?


Thanks for the support UU. Oh yeah I meant to tell you I went to see Joseph a few weeks ago. What a show.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

Sapien, what part do you not understand?

I have no idea where our subjects heart is, how could I know since I never met him and he never told me where his heart lay?

He told his child, and his child is telling you. He was not a christian. Is that not sufficiently clear? Is that not sufficient information upon which to determine whether or not he was saved?

Mrs. MacGyver

Sapien, it is not up to mere mortals like us to pass judgement on who is to be saved by God.

'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' etc...

also persons who have led good lives and are not of the Christian persuasion so to speak may also be saved.

Sapien

Mrs. MacGyver wrote:

Sapien, it is not up to mere mortals like us to pass judgement on who is to be saved by God.

'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' etc...

In order to be saved ourselves we must know what actions lead to salvation and what actions lead to damnation. As such, knowing the actions of another person, we can know whether or not they will be saved.

Of course we cannot know everything about another person, but in some cases it is clear. When a person openly rejects Christ, for instance.

McGinty

Whats drives me crazy is that people who drink out of golden chalices and wear fancy sunday clothes have probably condemned me and my pagan family to hell.

I was saddened to hear of your experience, to be honest there are some people who pretend religion/spirituality, in actual fact quite a large number of nasty people because the church is an ideal place to hide their true sins, however I will also say, please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. what I mean is don't label all church goers, or believers as your experience, or fundamentalists as I class them, God will not condemn you for not going to mass, in the bible it states God is love, and love is the opposite of fear, therefore God cannot use fearful tactics to do His bidding, God calls us all each in very individual ways and which is often a huge mystery, I don't know what is hell, or does it exist, and yet I class myself as a Christian, as I read and learn about God, I find I know less and less, that He/She becomes a greater mystery, however one thing I have learned is that those people who assume they know the answers are very much mistaken, the fact is that not one of us here on the forum or elsewhere can pertain to know God because we cannot, we get ideas and inklings, we get handed down ideas but we know nothing, so you are in the same position as everyone, you can read all the books, the bible whatever, but still you will know nothing, and those who have experienced God, say nothing because words cannot convey the mystery of God, so don;t fear and don't worry, but please don't condemn us that believe but who are not arroganct like the arse wipes who called to your family door,

Sapien

Mrs. MacGyver wrote:

also persons who have led good lives and are not of the Christian persuasion so to speak may also be saved.

I know that some Christians believe that, but a great many do not. I am trying, very patiently, to determine whether BrianCalgary does.

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

He told his child, and his child is telling you. He was not a christian. Is that not sufficiently clear? Is that not sufficient information upon which to determine whether or not he was saved?

No it's not sufficient information. The person in question would have to give the revelation himself. I'm not going to go by the testimony of the kids.

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

No it's not sufficient information. The person in question would have to give the revelation himself. I'm not going to go by the testimony of the kids.

Why would he lie to his children? Do you suspect that FullOf..IT is lying?

Then suppose a hypothetical situation. Suppose that FullOf..IT is correct and truthful in saying that his father was not a christian. In this case, would FullOf..IT's father be in Hell?

Mrs. MacGyver

Is it the born again christian concept you are talking about?

Sapien

Mrs. MacGyver wrote:

Is it the born again christian concept you are talking about?

As far as I know, that is the belief held uniformly among born-again Christians, yes. Though it is not confined to born-again Christians.

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

In order to be saved ourselves we must know what actions lead to salvation and what actions lead to damnation. As such, knowing the actions of another person, we can know whether or not they will be saved.

Of course we cannot know everything about another person, but in some cases it is clear. When a person openly rejects Christ, for instance.

And I don't know whether or not this person rejected Christ or not.

Sapien wrote:

Why would he lie to his children? Do you suspect that FullOf..IT is lying?.

No I don't think he is lying at all. But since I don't get to ask hi sdad the question as to where his heart is, I am not th eone to pass judgement nor will I.

Sapien wrote:

Then suppose a hypothetical situation. Suppose that FullOf..IT is correct and truthful in saying that his father was not a christian. In this case, would FullOf..IT's father be in Hell? .

From a previuos post:

Accepting Jesus as your saviour and asking for redemption of your sin shows a desire to be in full communion with God. He then grants you your hearts desire.

Not accepting Christ, not deisring a relationship with God, He honours your desire here as well.

Acceptance brings Heaven, rejection brings Hell.

Based on the above, where is your hypothetical person?

Mrs. MacGyver

Do you define hell as a seperation from God?

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

And I don't know whether or not this person rejected Christ or not.



No I don't think he is lying at all. But since I don't get to ask hi sdad the question as to where his heart is, I am not th eone to pass judgement nor will I.



From a previuos post:

Accepting Jesus as your saviour and asking for redemption of your sin shows a desire to be in full communion with God. He then grants you your hearts desire.

Not accepting Christ, not deisring a relationship with God, He honours your desire here as well.

Acceptance brings Heaven, rejection brings Hell.

Based on the above, where is your hypothetical person?

I am asking you to answer that question. Have the courage of your convictions.

Mrs. MacGyver

he could have accepted Christ before his death...its not for us to say what his personal arrangement with Christ was.