The United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland

JaysusMacfeck

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

I often contemplate this subject and I personally believe that had Ireland remained under the rule of London it may not have been such a peaceful nation as it is now. Let's face it, Ireland as it is now is ENTIRELY peaceful compared to anywhere in the world (bar scobes). Northern Ireland is still feeling the pain, and very much so to this day.

With the coming of the new Republic, many of the hardcore nationalists retired and settled in their new free state. The south of Ireland was brimming with "Freedom Fighters" at the turn of the 20th century, people ready to reap havoc against anyone who was against their beliefs. Enough people to make life a misery for decades in the 20th century.

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

* Neutrality of Ireland (already invalidated by Bush’s use of Shannon).

Aard

Neither

I voted "no". But I wouldn't say we're better off ruling ourselves.

Reku

Neither

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

I often contemplate this subject and I personally believe that had Ireland remained under the rule of London it may not have been such a peaceful nation as it is now. Let's face it, Ireland as it is now is ENTIRELY peaceful compared to anywhere in the world (bar scobes). Northern Ireland is still feeling the pain, and very much so to this day.

We'd either be one big NI or else all the catholics and non-unionists would have been shot.

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Yup, and we'd have suffered bombings last year right along side the Brits.

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

Probably not since we'd still be clinging to the tattered shreads of our once great empire and refusing to accept the euro even though it makes it more difficult for people in other nations using the euro to deal with us.
Then consider all the tax breaks and incentives that Ireland has given to get international companies to set up here, never would have happened under British rule.
We'd have to pay full fees for university education => fewer people going to university => lower average level of education and so less hi-tech. industries willing to set up here.

One simple point in my mind is that if being part of and ruled by Britain was so great then why have the Scots pushed for their own independent parliment?

sturgo

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,


Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

Who cares!?! Your poll is pointless. Ireland a republic, get over it.

justfortherecor

Neither

Ya, lets just stand back and laugh at the mess in the North!

KTRIC

Neither

This thread is completly pointless.

azezil

Neither

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed?

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

jum4

what if, what if... you could add loads more counties to your list.

The United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland and America etc


pointless.

shnaek

There's no option there to vote that we would be better off ruled by Germany. Or Luxembourg. :rolleyes:

Black Swan

Neither

If you can believe several articles appearing in the conservative UK publication, The Economist, from an economic standpoint, Ireland has generally done quite well in terms of GDP growth over the past few years, and recently, in some ways better than the UK.

KTRIC

Neither

Take your loyalist crap somewhere else. This is boards.ie not boards.co.uk or even Stormfront.

djmarkus

Not a popular one ted,

Go talk dung somewhere else

hallelujah

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Britain and America are terrorists.

Plug

Neither

sturgo wrote:

Who cares!?! Your poll is pointless. Ireland a republic, get over it.

Exactly;) Couldn't of said it better myself.

Black Swan

Neither

KTRIC wrote:

Take your loyalist crap somewhere else. This is boards.ie not boards.co.uk or even Stormfront.

Surely you are not referring to my post?:rolleyes: If so, I would recommend that you go back and re-read it. This post is very much in favour of independence from the UK, as Ireland has done much better without the UK than with it, especially in the past couple of years. Loyalists would be very unhappy with me citing one of their publications showing that Ireland is doing better without the Brits. I voted for independence in this poll, which you can check from your network administrator position, by the way, as did generations of my clan, many of whom died for independence.

imeatingchips

Neither

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

England, internally, has had more than it's fair share of racial violence. So if, say, a housing estate in Millwall was to "succumb to the entirely peaceful United Kingdom" (which, by the way, has been at war twice in the last 12 years) then would Millwall be better off?

You see (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) you might think you've asked a good, thoughtful question but it's anything but.

From the words you used (and assuming you are Irish) I get the impression that you have little or no national pride or confidence. You still seem to have a tip-the-cap attitude to our former masters. Which, by the way, is what they were.

re: "On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world". You seem to be forgetting that it wasn't a mutually beneficial partnership. England treated us like Germany treated the jews - we were dispossessed of land, suffered massive population losses from a manmade famine, etc.

just read a few books or something, Mr Macfeck.

cournioni

Neither

shnaek wrote:

There's no option there to vote that we would be better off ruled by Germany. Or Luxembourg. :rolleyes:

Indeed... Irland vorsprung durch technik...

baztard

Neither

Pro's of having stayed in the UK:

Our economy from the 50's or so on would have been far better than it actually was. London would have pumped in money for infrastructure etc. (They did build our railways and canals).

Dublin would have been the second city of the UK and would have fared better economically also.

Our population would be much bigger than it is now, as it would have grown as exponentially as Britains did from 1900's to 2000.

Ireland would still be united.

Con's:

Our language and culture would be wiped out almost completly. (Just look at Scotland and Wales)

Our economy would never reach the heights it has today.

We would have recieved many of the hundreds of thousands of asian and caribbean economic migrants Britain got during the 50's and 70's. Leading to ghettos and areas of the country where racism would be rife, and further watering down of our culture.

In conclusion I think we're way better off out of the UK. Its only a shame NI got left behind.

Tha Gopher

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

* Neutrality of Ireland (already invalidated by Bush’s use of Shannon).

Firstly, if we had stayed with the Brits, maybe we would have a decent education system and Ida made something of my life. First class? Leave it out, its hard to imagine a more outdated system. Societies that demand 17 year olds learn algebraic maths and near extinct languages when the students will have no use for them in the modern world are not advanced. Before you jump to cnclusions, Im not demanding anything more complicated that the 12 times tables be outlawed. Far from it. Rather, what we should have is like in the UK. In Ireland, we do what, 7 subjects in the leaving, and are graded on the best 6. The average student may like 2 of these, be fairly good at another 3, be struggling at another and not have a clue about the 7th. Therefore, the student will have no intention of seekng future employment in a field where the subject they hate is an important part. In the UK, after their equivalent of the leaving they choose their favourite 3 for the final exam years. If I was allowed to choose to do only English, History and Geography Id be studying law right now. Because of our wonderful education system I was forced to put in an average result at Irish and a miracalous 40.01% cant believe I got it D3 in maths. So yes, financially, 10 years from now if the Brits were here, Id be a wealthy man defending IRA menS human rights

re violence, the discrimination was more acute in the North, because there was a larger population to favour. Protestants getting favourable treatment in council housing in British ruled Galway or Roscommon in the 1960s wouldnt be a powder keg, simply because there wouldnt be enough working class Protestants in most southern counties anyway. So I think it wouldve remained largely based in the North.

Re the world scene, last time I checked the UK was refusing to outright condemn the actions of the most murderous terrorist entity in the Middle East.

Baztard- Dublin the 2nd city? Is the Greater Manchester region not around 4 million or something? Re immigration, Scotland and Northern Ireland didnt experience any huge inward migration during the 60s, Id say our emigration rate wouldve remained the same. What is now the republic was never an industrial giant under British rule 60 years after the industrial revolution hit the UK mainland and the Belfast area, I doubt it would have suddenly caught up (except perhaps temporarily when WWII spurred a growth in industry)

netwhizkid

Neither

I believe we are much better under Irish rule even it is Bertie and Co. our economy has improved enormously every person is now enjoying life even if certain parts are a little daunting like house prices etc.

As a country we are awash with soft cash and as a teenager I am enjoying growing up here, being out last night really brings it home to see so many young people being out on a Thursday night and to have the financial freedom to do this. I drive a BMW at 19 so you can see where I am sort of headed.

As for the political side of things I really think that alot of Northern Irish would like to have a United Ireland including the Unionists, when some of the hardliners on both sides die off things will change I hope.

On the flip side of things if liz was our queen I wouldn't have to pay €1,107 VRT on my aforementioned car. As a nation we have moved away from old attitudes and have become much more cultured and we have a bright 21st century ahead. Getting rid of Bertie would allow some of the wealth to be used for proper things like Health Care etc.

Tha Gopher

netwhizkid wrote:

I drive a BMW at 19
QUOTE]

God bless the entrepreneurialiam Irelands newfound addiction to cocaine has brought.......

Werent you complaining you couldnt get work? I agreed with most of your points in that thread but....jesus.....why should you even care to job hunt?

ScumLord

Of course we're better off ruling ourselfs all you have to do is compare Ireland 100 years ago to today.

Under English rule the majority of the population where uneducated, couldn't afford shoes, lived in slums we couldn't even grow a potato properly.

Once British rule ended we built the shannon power station (best in Europe at the time) bought ourselfs some new shoes and had an economic boom that the majourity of people benifited from.

I think Northern Ireland as it stands is better off as it is, ahlf way between the two they get the best of both worlds. English roads and Irish spirit.

pclancy

Neither

I thinkl NI will one day become its own country, its too british and too irish to be run by either. The brits did build us some good infrastructure but they didnt do much else for us apart from wipe out our culture and kill a lot of people. Thats all in the past tho now, no point getting upset bout it or hating the english becuase of it. We've got a good country now thanks to our own hard work over the last 50 years and its beter think about the future then give out about the past. Ireland IS better off, I think anyone could have told you that OP and I dunno why you posted this poll.....its weird!

baztard

Neither

Tha Gopher wrote:

Baztard- Dublin the 2nd city? Is the Greater Manchester region not around 4 million or something?

I dont mean population wise, but as a power base. Back when we were in the UK, Dublin was considered the 2nd city of the UK from a governance point of view.

Mossy Monk

Neither

it is almost a United States of Europe these days anyway

Feral Mutant

Neither

azezil wrote:

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for that. You saved me from making a long war-related rant.

InFront

Neither

Of course Ireland is better off being independent from the UK, it works much better as an economic unit by itself. If Ireland was still part of the UK, there would have probably been a healthy economy earlier, but such a successful economy as has come now, would not have arisen (probably).

But to suggest that this country would be like Northern ireland - when there is (and was pre 1921) a tiny Protestant or certainly Loyalist minority here, is ridiculous. NI is genuinely divided into catholics and protestants, nationalists and loyalists, the South is not and was not so divided.

Suggestions that Irish people were treated like Jews in the Holocaust are bizzare, exaggerated and unwarranted. Historically Irish people have been badly treated by the British Government (mid 19th century and before). Otherwise, Since the turn of the 20th century they had the same laws applied to them as other British people, and were far far better off that other colonised people.

Ireland has benefitted culturally to some extent from independence. however the same people who say that Irish culture would be dead under the Brits are probably the same people who spin the "800 years" mantra and forget that Irish culture survived much greater hurdles in the past over many centuries.

Ireland is better off from an socio-economic point on view, on her own. This is almost unquestionable. Ireland is a great place to live. These things are obvious, but some of the comments in this thread, like the ones mentioned above are quite surpirsing

Dragan

Neither

Can i just point out that the very title of this thread implies the OP thinking is off????

If you really believe that it would be the "United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland" if we were still under English rule then you are crazy.

Carcharodon

Neither

azezil wrote:

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Can i continue the laughter

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

#Smokey#

Neither

Ffffffffffffffffrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddddoooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

groundedplane

Neither

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..

county

classy motto:rolleyes:

groundedplane

Neither

county wrote:

classy motto:rolleyes:

Cheers mate... Nice one.

netwhizkid

Neither

netwhizkid wrote:

I drive a BMW at 19 so you can see where I am sort of headed.

You obviously didn't go to college.How did you make the money?

Ruu_Old

Neither

Better off on our own I suppose.

Dragan

Neither

groundedplane wrote:

How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend.

Why not? He can ask whatever type of question he wants, about whatever the hell he wants....or does Freedom of Speech not fit in with your ideal of a Unified Ireland????

Terry

Neither

groundedplane wrote:

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..

out of where?
a country you no longer live in?

now i'm the type of person who will stand up and bash the brits for what they did to this country, but it's been almost 100 years since they went and it's time to move on.
northern Ireland? let it take care of itself.
let all the **** up there kill each other and then there might be some peace. a big civil war is what that place needs. no outside interference from britain or Ireland. just let them slug it out and the survivors will be much better off.

Mossy Monk

Neither

groundedplane wrote:

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..

do you have a fanclub/newsletter

herbieflowers

groundedplane wrote:

Cheers mate... Nice one.

Is there any irony here? Using a distinctly English phrase in "cheers"...? And "mate"...!

Ruu_Old

Neither

groundedplane wrote:

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..

You'll go very far with that attitude in life, my friend.:)

Dragan

Neither

herbieflowers wrote:

Is there any irony here? Using a distinctly English phrase in "cheers"...? And "mate"...!

I must confess, i did have a little chuckle.

Ruu wrote:

You'll go very far with that attitude in life, my friend.:)

Hey Ruu, do you think he would be willing to stand in Belfast and say "Brits out?"

Hello Pot, this is Mr Kettle!!!

Giblet

groundedplane wrote:

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..

Idiots out is my motto. Goodbye

Ruu_Old

Neither

Dragan wrote:

I must confess, i did have a little chuckle.




Hey Ruu, do you think he would be willing to stand in Belfast and say "Brits out?"

Hello Pot, this is Mr Kettle!!!

I highly doubt it, fine and well shouting it over the interweb from the safety of your PC.

mike65

baztard wrote:

Con's:

Our language and culture would be wiped out almost completly.

Erm...

Mike.

[Jackass]

Neither

F*ck the UK!

Seriously, all we ever wanted was our own independence and a peaceful island.

Britain took that away from us, treated the Irish like absolute sh*t and to this day has left our country as a mess.

If you brush up on your history and the things they actually did to us, it is absolutely outrages!

For inhumanity, It's up there with Slavery in north america and Nazi treatment of Jews.

On principal alone, we are better off away from them.

(And yes, you always have the modern ultra pc people who say, who cares? Bollix!...If you had family like my grandmother who told me about the fear she lived in, blacking out her windows at night and freezing cold, but wouldn't light a fire for fear of a thrashing at the hands of the black and tans...I say you're the ignorant one and you have no idea of the real life history our country and your ancestors sufferd.)

county

Nick wrote:

F*ck the UK!

Seriously, all we ever wanted was our own independence and a peaceful island.

Britain took that away from us, treated the Irish like absolute sh*t and to this day has left our country as a mess.

If you brush up on your history and the things they actually did to us, it is absolutely outrages!

For inhumanity, It's up there with Slavery in north america and Nazi treatment of Jews.

On principal alone, we are better off away from them.

(And yes, you always have the modern ultra pc people who say, who cares? Bollix!...If you had family like my grandmother who told me about the fear she lived in, blacking out her windows at night and freezing cold, but wouldn't light a fire for fear of a thrashing at the hands of the black and tans...I say you're the ignorant one and you have no idea of the real life history our country and your ancestors sufferd.)

yawn, yawn

Mossy Monk

Neither

the woodwork must be feeling emptier as time goes on

mike65

I always love it when the Irish realy get going!

Mike.

iFight

Neither

I went No, i think we are better off on our own. I reckon that we would have become one big northeren ireland or there could have been big cival wars etc. The only positive thing IMO that would make me want to have connections with the UK would be being involved in war. Although we dodge bombings and blame, we should have been stuck in to try fix the problem.

dave2pvd

Tha Gopher wrote:

Firstly, if we had stayed with the Brits, maybe we would have a decent education system and Ida made something of my life. First class? Leave it out, its hard to imagine a more outdated system. Societies that demand 17 year olds learn algebraic maths and near extinct languages when the students will have no use for them in the modern world are not advanced. Before you jump to cnclusions, Im not demanding anything more complicated that the 12 times tables be outlawed. Far from it. Rather, what we should have is like in the UK. In Ireland, we do what, 7 subjects in the leaving, and are graded on the best 6. The average student may like 2 of these, be fairly good at another 3, be struggling at another and not have a clue about the 7th. Therefore, the student will have no intention of seekng future employment in a field where the subject they hate is an important part. In the UK, after their equivalent of the leaving they choose their favourite 3 for the final exam years. If I was allowed to choose to do only English, History and Geography Id be studying law right now. Because of our wonderful education system I was forced to put in an average result at Irish and a miracalous 40.01% cant believe I got it D3 in maths.

I agree with you re mandatory Irish.

I disagree with the rest of what you wrote. Unless the Irish education system has changed much in the last 15 years (it hasn't), it is still a good one by most international standards. Especially compared to the one I am surrounded by here!

IMO, the British system is far too narrow; you specialise too early in life.

So you had subjects you didn't like? That's a bit like real life, unfortunately.

Algebra as a 17 year old? Suck it up! I use it every day in one form or another.

As far as career building goes, I have my broad-based, Irish education partly to thank for some amount of success*. Of that I have no doubt. I wonder what I'd be doing now if I had been a product of UKofGB&I's hypothetical ed system?


* and a DIT degree that almost kicked my a$$.

darkman2

Neither

Why should we have to think 'what might have been?'. Its the UK that should be thinking 'what might have been?'. You treat ppl like sh*te and it all comes back to haunt eventually.