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The United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland

JaysusMacfeck

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

I often contemplate this subject and I personally believe that had Ireland remained under the rule of London it may not have been such a peaceful nation as it is now. Let's face it, Ireland as it is now is ENTIRELY peaceful compared to anywhere in the world (bar scobes). Northern Ireland is still feeling the pain, and very much so to this day.

With the coming of the new Republic, many of the hardcore nationalists retired and settled in their new free state. The south of Ireland was brimming with "Freedom Fighters" at the turn of the 20th century, people ready to reap havoc against anyone who was against their beliefs. Enough people to make life a misery for decades in the 20th century.

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed?

*

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

* Neutrality of Ireland (already invalidated by Bush’s use of Shannon).

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Aard

I voted "no". But I wouldn't say we're better off ruling ourselves.

Reku

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

I often contemplate this subject and I personally believe that had Ireland remained under the rule of London it may not have been such a peaceful nation as it is now. Let's face it, Ireland as it is now is ENTIRELY peaceful compared to anywhere in the world (bar scobes). Northern Ireland is still feeling the pain, and very much so to this day.

We'd either be one big NI or else all the catholics and non-unionists would have been shot.

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Yup, and we'd have suffered bombings last year right along side the Brits.

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

Probably not since we'd still be clinging to the tattered shreads of our once great empire and refusing to accept the euro even though it makes it more difficult for people in other nations using the euro to deal with us.
Then consider all the tax breaks and incentives that Ireland has given to get international companies to set up here, never would have happened under British rule.
We'd have to pay full fees for university education => fewer people going to university => lower average level of education and so less hi-tech. industries willing to set up here.

One simple point in my mind is that if being part of and ruled by Britain was so great then why have the Scots pushed for their own independent parliment?

sturgo

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

Who cares!?! Your poll is pointless. Ireland a republic, get over it.

justfortherecor

Ya, lets just stand back and laugh at the mess in the North!

KTRIC

This thread is completly pointless.

azezil

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed?

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

jum4

what if, what if... you could add loads more counties to your list.

The United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland and America etc

pointless.

shnaek

There's no option there to vote that we would be better off ruled by Germany. Or Luxembourg. :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

If you can believe several articles appearing in the conservative UK publication, The Economist, from an economic standpoint, Ireland has generally done quite well in terms of GDP growth over the past few years, and recently, in some ways better than the UK.

KTRIC

Take your loyalist crap somewhere else. This is boards.ie not boards.co.uk or even Stormfront.

djmarkus

Not a popular one ted,

Go talk dung somewhere else

hallelujah

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Britain and America are terrorists.

Plug

sturgo wrote:

Who cares!?! Your poll is pointless. Ireland a republic, get over it.

Exactly;) Couldn't of said it better myself.

[Deleted User]

KTRIC wrote:

Take your loyalist crap somewhere else. This is boards.ie not boards.co.uk or even Stormfront.

Surely you are not referring to my post?:rolleyes: If so, I would recommend that you go back and re-read it. This post is very much in favour of independence from the UK, as Ireland has done much better without the UK than with it, especially in the past couple of years. Loyalists would be very unhappy with me citing one of their publications showing that Ireland is doing better without the Brits. I voted for independence in this poll, which you can check from your network administrator position, by the way, as did generations of my clan, many of whom died for independence.

imeatingchips

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

England, internally, has had more than it's fair share of racial violence. So if, say, a housing estate in Millwall was to "succumb to the entirely peaceful United Kingdom" (which, by the way, has been at war twice in the last 12 years) then would Millwall be better off?

You see (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) you might think you've asked a good, thoughtful question but it's anything but.

From the words you used (and assuming you are Irish) I get the impression that you have little or no national pride or confidence. You still seem to have a tip-the-cap attitude to our former masters. Which, by the way, is what they were.

re: "On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world". You seem to be forgetting that it wasn't a mutually beneficial partnership. England treated us like Germany treated the jews - we were dispossessed of land, suffered massive population losses from a manmade famine, etc.

just read a few books or something, Mr Macfeck.

cournioni

shnaek wrote:

There's no option there to vote that we would be better off ruled by Germany. Or Luxembourg. :rolleyes:

Indeed... Irland vorsprung durch technik...

baztard

Pro's of having stayed in the UK:

Our economy from the 50's or so on would have been far better than it actually was. London would have pumped in money for infrastructure etc. (They did build our railways and canals).

Dublin would have been the second city of the UK and would have fared better economically also.

Our population would be much bigger than it is now, as it would have grown as exponentially as Britains did from 1900's to 2000.

Ireland would still be united.

Con's:

Our language and culture would be wiped out almost completly. (Just look at Scotland and Wales)

Our economy would never reach the heights it has today.

We would have recieved many of the hundreds of thousands of asian and caribbean economic migrants Britain got during the 50's and 70's. Leading to ghettos and areas of the country where racism would be rife, and further watering down of our culture.

In conclusion I think we're way better off out of the UK. Its only a shame NI got left behind.

Tha Gopher

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

So,

If Ireland hadn't severed itself from the UK, do you think Ireland would have succumbed to an entirely peaceful United Kingdom or would our country have become one MASSIVE Northern Ireland, e.g., sectarian violence in every county?

On the flip side Ireland could have now been part of one of the most influential Kingdoms in the world. Fighting against the terrorists in the middle east, making the world a safer place... Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of this historical deed? *

Ireland is currently the 2nd richest nation in the EU due to our intimate population and first-class education. Do you think Ireland would be as rich now if it was part of the UK?

* Neutrality of Ireland (already invalidated by Bush’s use of Shannon).

Firstly, if we had stayed with the Brits, maybe we would have a decent education system and Ida made something of my life. First class? Leave it out, its hard to imagine a more outdated system. Societies that demand 17 year olds learn algebraic maths and near extinct languages when the students will have no use for them in the modern world are not advanced. Before you jump to cnclusions, Im not demanding anything more complicated that the 12 times tables be outlawed. Far from it. Rather, what we should have is like in the UK. In Ireland, we do what, 7 subjects in the leaving, and are graded on the best 6. The average student may like 2 of these, be fairly good at another 3, be struggling at another and not have a clue about the 7th. Therefore, the student will have no intention of seekng future employment in a field where the subject they hate is an important part. In the UK, after their equivalent of the leaving they choose their favourite 3 for the final exam years. If I was allowed to choose to do only English, History and Geography Id be studying law right now. Because of our wonderful education system I was forced to put in an average result at Irish and a miracalous 40.01% cant believe I got it D3 in maths. So yes, financially, 10 years from now if the Brits were here, Id be a wealthy man defending IRA menS human rights

re violence, the discrimination was more acute in the North, because there was a larger population to favour. Protestants getting favourable treatment in council housing in British ruled Galway or Roscommon in the 1960s wouldnt be a powder keg, simply because there wouldnt be enough working class Protestants in most southern counties anyway. So I think it wouldve remained largely based in the North.

Re the world scene, last time I checked the UK was refusing to outright condemn the actions of the most murderous terrorist entity in the Middle East.

Baztard- Dublin the 2nd city? Is the Greater Manchester region not around 4 million or something? Re immigration, Scotland and Northern Ireland didnt experience any huge inward migration during the 60s, Id say our emigration rate wouldve remained the same. What is now the republic was never an industrial giant under British rule 60 years after the industrial revolution hit the UK mainland and the Belfast area, I doubt it would have suddenly caught up (except perhaps temporarily when WWII spurred a growth in industry)

netwhizkid

I believe we are much better under Irish rule even it is Bertie and Co. our economy has improved enormously every person is now enjoying life even if certain parts are a little daunting like house prices etc.

As a country we are awash with soft cash and as a teenager I am enjoying growing up here, being out last night really brings it home to see so many young people being out on a Thursday night and to have the financial freedom to do this. I drive a BMW at 19 so you can see where I am sort of headed.

As for the political side of things I really think that alot of Northern Irish would like to have a United Ireland including the Unionists, when some of the hardliners on both sides die off things will change I hope.

On the flip side of things if liz was our queen I wouldn't have to pay €1,107 VRT on my aforementioned car. As a nation we have moved away from old attitudes and have become much more cultured and we have a bright 21st century ahead. Getting rid of Bertie would allow some of the wealth to be used for proper things like Health Care etc.

Tha Gopher

netwhizkid wrote:

I drive a BMW at 19
QUOTE]

God bless the entrepreneurialiam Irelands newfound addiction to cocaine has brought.......

Werent you complaining you couldnt get work? I agreed with most of your points in that thread but....jesus.....why should you even care to job hunt?

ScumLord

Of course we're better off ruling ourselfs all you have to do is compare Ireland 100 years ago to today.

Under English rule the majority of the population where uneducated, couldn't afford shoes, lived in slums we couldn't even grow a potato properly.

Once British rule ended we built the shannon power station (best in Europe at the time) bought ourselfs some new shoes and had an economic boom that the majourity of people benifited from.

I think Northern Ireland as it stands is better off as it is, ahlf way between the two they get the best of both worlds. English roads and Irish spirit.

pclancy

I thinkl NI will one day become its own country, its too british and too irish to be run by either. The brits did build us some good infrastructure but they didnt do much else for us apart from wipe out our culture and kill a lot of people. Thats all in the past tho now, no point getting upset bout it or hating the english becuase of it. We've got a good country now thanks to our own hard work over the last 50 years and its beter think about the future then give out about the past. Ireland IS better off, I think anyone could have told you that OP and I dunno why you posted this poll.....its weird!

baztard

Tha Gopher wrote:

Baztard- Dublin the 2nd city? Is the Greater Manchester region not around 4 million or something?

I dont mean population wise, but as a power base. Back when we were in the UK, Dublin was considered the 2nd city of the UK from a governance point of view.

Mossy Monk

it is almost a United States of Europe these days anyway

Feral Mutant

azezil wrote:

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for that. You saved me from making a long war-related rant.

InFront

Of course Ireland is better off being independent from the UK, it works much better as an economic unit by itself. If Ireland was still part of the UK, there would have probably been a healthy economy earlier, but such a successful economy as has come now, would not have arisen (probably).

But to suggest that this country would be like Northern ireland - when there is (and was pre 1921) a tiny Protestant or certainly Loyalist minority here, is ridiculous. NI is genuinely divided into catholics and protestants, nationalists and loyalists, the South is not and was not so divided.

Suggestions that Irish people were treated like Jews in the Holocaust are bizzare, exaggerated and unwarranted. Historically Irish people have been badly treated by the British Government (mid 19th century and before). Otherwise, Since the turn of the 20th century they had the same laws applied to them as other British people, and were far far better off that other colonised people.

Ireland has benefitted culturally to some extent from independence. however the same people who say that Irish culture would be dead under the Brits are probably the same people who spin the "800 years" mantra and forget that Irish culture survived much greater hurdles in the past over many centuries.

Ireland is better off from an socio-economic point on view, on her own. This is almost unquestionable. Ireland is a great place to live. These things are obvious, but some of the comments in this thread, like the ones mentioned above are quite surpirsing

Dragan

Can i just point out that the very title of this thread implies the OP thinking is off????

If you really believe that it would be the "United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland" if we were still under English rule then you are crazy.

Carcharodon

azezil wrote:

Should one laugh at this?

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Can i continue the laughter

Yeah I think I will!

ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

#Smokey#

Ffffffffffffffffrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddddoooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

groundedplane

Were Irish and should have a full 32 county Country. How dare this questions even be asked. Your throwing the Cat amongst the pigeons there my friend. I would love to see you ask that question somewhere up in Belfast and see what Kind of reaction you would get.

Brits out is my motto…..