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Firearms Acts 1925-2006

  • 03-08-2006 12:24am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭


    Okay folks, since the Criminal Justice Bill thread has run to 35 pages and people won't wade through that much; and since it was to do with the Bill rather than the ensuing Act, we have a new sticky thread (at least for a while) to discuss the new Act and the changes it's brought in.

    To start off with, here's the final version of the Criminal Justice Bill 2006, as passed by the Dail and Seanad and signed into law.

    Then here's a link to the Firearms Acts, as amended:

    Please note : This document is not a restatement prepared under the Statute Law (Restatement) Act 2002 and as such is not legislation. It is intended to provide an overview of the Firearms Acts only, and not to serve as a legal document.


    Section 1 Definitions and interpretation.
    Section 2 Restrictions on possession, use, and carriage of firearms.
    Section 2A Firearms training certificate
    Section 2B Restricted firearms and ammunition
    Section 3 Applications for, and form and effect of, firearm certificates.
    Section 3A Issue of guidelines etc. by Commissioner.
    Section 4 Conditions of grant of firearm certificate.
    Section 4A Authorisation of rifle or pistol clubs or shooting ranges.
    Section 4B Firearms range inspectors.
    Section 5 Revocation of firearm certificates.
    Section 6 Sale of firearm when certificate refused or revoked.
    Section 7 Permit to bring firearm ashore.
    Section 8 Persons disentitled to hold a firearm certificate or a permit.
    Section 10A Reloading of ammunition



    The Bill was signed into law by the President on July 16 2006, and we've just seen an announcement of the commencement orders on the DoJELR webpage:
    Minister McDowell commences Criminal Justice Act 2006 - Measures include new powers for the Gardai, provision for a weapons amnesty followed by mandatory sentences for gun crime

    New law will "make life more difficult for criminals"

    The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Michael McDowell, has signed an order bringing into operation a substantial number of the provisions contained in the Criminal Justice Act 2006 with effect from today's date, 1 August 2006. Further provisions will come into effect on 2 October 2006 and 1 November 2006.

    The Act, which was signed into law by the President on 16 July 2006, contains a comprehensive package of anti-crime measures designed to enhance the powers of An Garda Siochana in the investigation and prosecution of offences and generally provide for improvements to the operation of the criminal justice system.
    ...
    A wide range of provisions are being commenced with immediate effect from today including the following:

    ...

    Firearms and Fireworks
    * A statutory basis for an amnesty during which firearms, knives and offensive weapons may be surrendered to the Garda Siochana before new penalties and minimum mandatory sentences are introduced. This will enable people to regularise their position before the mandatory sentences are introduced thus enabling the Gardai to concentrate on more serious offenders. This amnesty will operate during September and October of this year;
    * Increases in fines and penalties generally for offences under the Firearms Acts;
    * Provisions to allow the Minister to deem certain firearms as "restricted" by reference to specific criteria, including the calibre, action type and muzzle energy of the firearm. Any person wishing to obtain a certificate for such a firearm will now have to apply directly to the Garda Commissioner;
    * A new offence of possession of illegally imported fireworks with intent to supply;
    * New offences governing the misuse of fireworks in public places, and
    * Increases penalties governing the illegal importation, sale and use of fireworks.

    With effect from 1st November 2006 the following come into effect -
    * Mandatory minimum sentences, of between five and ten years, for certain firearms offences, including possession of a firearm in suspicious circumstances, possession of firearm with criminal intent, possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, possession of a firearm while hijacking a vehicle, and use or production of a firearm to resist arrest;
    * New offences concerning the modification of firearms such as "sawing-off" a shotgun.

    ...

    Commencement of the Criminal Justice Act 2006

    Parts 1 to 8 and Part 15 of the Act, with the exception of a small number of sections in Parts 2 and 5, are being brought into force with effect from today 1 August. Parts 9 and 10 (other than the provisions on electronic monitoring) will become operational on 2 October while further parts of Part 5 will commence on 1 November.
    (Part 5 of the Act is the Firearms section btw)


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭dbar


    Just took a quick look at a couple of sections,
    Under the Restricted Firearms and Ammo Section,

    "declare specified ammunition to be restricted ammunition for the purposes of this Act by reference to one or more than one of the following criteria:

    (i) category;
    (ii) calibre;
    (iii) weight;
    (iv) kinetic energy;
    (v) ballistic co-efficient;
    (vi) design;
    (vii) composition;
    (viii) description."

    How are they going to use ballistic co-efficient to restrict?

    I can just see it now, sorry, bullets with a bc of blah are well known to be used by certain undesireables, cant give you the reloading licence.

    This wording practically gives unlimited scope to refuse any application, (pick list to chose from)
    the Restricted Firearms is the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭17HMR


    dbar wrote:
    "declare specified ammunition to be restricted ammunition for the purposes of this Act by reference to one or more than one of the following criteria:
    (i) category;
    (ii) calibre;
    (iii) weight;
    (iv) kinetic energy;
    (v) ballistic co-efficient;
    (vi) design;
    (vii) composition;
    (viii) description."
    How are they going to use ballistic co-efficient to restrict?
    I can just see it now, sorry, bullets with a bc of blah are well known to be used by certain undesireables, cant give you the reloading licence.
    QUOTE]

    Or, by composition: Sorry, bullets with lead in them are bad for the environment...

    Or by design: Sorry, hollow point bullets are used by assasins.....

    Or by description: Sorry, 22LR "Stinger"...sounds dangerous

    I guess we'll just have to build relationships and trust and believe some degree of reason will prevail..... and be prepared to fight the good fight in the courts if necessary.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    That mention of fireworks is,i presume,specificly to put people out of business who sell thousands of quids worth every year.Dunsink halting site was raided last year and they were talking about hundreds of kilos of them rather that just a few bangers.We might get some peace and quiet in the run up to halloween.!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 828 ✭✭✭whupass


    wait, you know the restricted firearms part? is that the bit that legalises airsoft guns?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 garmac


    Hi All.
    I'm very new to shooting- I've only been shooting at clays for two years.
    Does it bother anyone else out there that this is the CRIMINAL justice act?
    Who are they trying to kid? "Hmmmm will I go to that DTL shoot today or will I go knock off the bank?"
    From what I've experience in the last two years Irish shooters are incredibly safe, responsible well trained people.
    (Probably far superior to our armed gardai etc too.)
    Do we actually have a voice in all this?
    I think it will give them carte blanche and a very free hand.
    Guess I'll have to cancel the order for my Barrett M95 now too :-)
    Keep the faith.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    garmac wrote:
    Hi All.
    I'm very new to shooting- I've only been shooting at clays for two years.
    Does it bother anyone else out there that this is the CRIMINAL justice act?
    It did - but frankly, anything more than mild annoyance on the first read is and was a waste of time for two reasons:
    1) The contents of the bill are far more important than the heading;
    2) The bill amends the firearms act, it does not change the firearms act to a criminal justice act.

    There's also the point that the Firearms Act is a queer one in that it comprises both civil and criminal legislation in one Act, which is a tad unusual.

    Basicly, don't worry about the title - it's like worrying about the licence plate of the truck that's about to hit you!
    Do we actually have a voice in all this?
    We did, over the past two years. When it was the Criminal Justice Bill 2004. But now it's the Firearms Act 2006 and we have no say in it that we don't have to pay enormous amounts for in the courts (and the last time we did that, they wrote the CJB and overturned the court's decisions with a single line of text...)
    I think it will give them carte blanche and a very free hand.
    I wholeheartedly agree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From the Commencement Order, all of the firearms Act amendments are now in force except those in sections 28 (firearms training certs), 30 (firearms cert form), 32 (granting firearms certs), 33 (authorising firearms ranges and clubs), 38 (firearms dealer registration) and 40 (reloading) from the CJB; so yes, airsoft pistols are now toys not firearms and so on. And there's nothing in there on timetables for those sections coming into force. The DoJ says Nov.1st though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    whupass wrote:
    wait, you know the restricted firearms part? is that the bit that legalises airsoft guns?
    No, you're thinking of the part that defines a firearm as being an airgun of more than 1 joule muzzle energy, which means many airsoft guns are not firearms anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭Saddlebags


    Since the new act came in, I believe a decision has to be made within 3 months,on granting of licence. I'm waiting 2 months now since I was first refused a cert for a pistol and got upgraded to a reconsider after a meeting with the super.So. has he now got 3 months from Aig 1st or should I expect an answer in the next few weeks? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    You made your application under the old system Saddlebags, so it's not clear-cut. You could argue either side of the argument in a court with legitimate points. Probably best just to try the softly-softly approach until you can't do so anymore.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭NiSmO


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Looks that way NiSmO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭newby.204


    Before i get any rants refering to a new airsoft thread, this was the only example i could think of to illustate my point and im refering, in my question, to having to state any part of the Firearms Act/CJB 2006



    When a person is refering to a relevant part of the Firearms act/CJB 2006 what exactly do you say??

    For e.g.
    Guard:"Im going to have to confiscate that pistol!"

    Me:"Under the Firearms Act/CJB 2006 this is now a toy......"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    It's cited as the "Firearms Act (as amended)" or the "Firearms Acts 1925-2006" newby, but just refer to the Firearms Act 2006 and they should know what specifically you're talking about.

    In your specific case for example, the conversation might run as follows:

    Guard:"Im going to have to confiscate that pistol!"
    Newby:"According to section one of the Firearms Act 2006, this is now a toy as it's muzzle energy does not exceed one joule."
    Guard:"Really? Prove it."
    Newby:"Er...."

    :D

    (That's why I thought 7 Joules was a better figure, by the way - german air rifles have a symbol stamped on them that legally says they were tested and have a muzzle energy of 7 joules or less. There's nothing similar for one joule, at least so far as I know. You'll probably see airsoft fields investing in chronagraphs to avoid falling foul of this).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭newby.204


    Thanks sparks helpful as ever!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From yesterday's Iris Oifigiuil:
    S.I. No. 451 of 2006.
    FIREARMS ACT 1925 (SURRENDER OF FIREARMS
    AND OFFENSIVE WEAPONS) ORDER 2006.

    Notice is hereby given that the Minister for Justice, Equality
    and Law Reform has made an Order entitled as above. This
    Order has been made under section 25A (inserted by section 46
    of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006) of the
    Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭jaycee


    Ok.. !

    Any further details ...?
    I presume this relates to nasty knives and illegal firearms etc...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    From the RTE website ((http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0831/crime.html)-
    [FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]Weapons amnesty details to be announced[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]
    31 August 2006 07:22
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

    Details of an amnesty for holders of unlicensed firearms and offensive weapons are to be given today by the Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The amnesty begins tomorrow and will last for at least two months.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It will allow people with unlicensed firearms or illegal weapons to dispose of them without facing prosecution but excludes weapons that have been used for criminal purposes.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Signed into law by the President Mary Mc Aleese in July the Criminal Justice Act is designed to boost anti-crime measures, it strengthens laws on firearms and includes a mandatory minimum custodial sentence for some firearms offences.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Included in the act is the weapons amnesty. Guns, knives and offensive weapons will be covered, but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From November the strengthened laws on firearms possession will take effect.

    [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Britain a similar scheme was launched in 2003 and more than 43,000 guns were handed over during that scheme. [/FONT]
    ..and from the Irish Independent (http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=97572)-
    McDowell to announce details of two-month gun amnesty tran_pix.gif
    07:14 Thursday August 31st 2006 tran_pix.giftran_pix.gif

    Justice Minister Michael McDowell is set to announce a two-month firearms amnesty today in advance of the introduction of tougher new laws on gun crime.
    The amnesty will get underway tomorrow and will allow members of the public to surrender illegally held guns without being prosecuted for not having a licence.

    However, it will not include any immunity from prosecution for more serious gun crime.

    The weapons, which must be handed into Gardai, will be examined by ballistics experts to see if they have been used in any crimes.

    Earlier this year, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors came out against the idea of a weapons amnesty, saying hardened criminals were unlikely to give up their guns.

    Mr McDowell himself has also said he believes the initiative will have little effect on gun crime as it will be ignored by criminal gangs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Pretty much what we were expecting really. I just posted to let people know it had been officially announced.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed.

    I wonder what the thinking behind the edit was?
    RTE hardly think that if they remove that bit, the bad guys will hand in their hardware and get 'caught out' when it's tested, do they?

    .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Rovi wrote:
    Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed.

    I wonder what the thinking behind the edit was?
    RTE hardly think that if they remove that bit, the bad guys will hand in their hardware and get 'caught out' when it's tested, do they?

    .

    In fairness though if I or anyone found a pistol on the streets of limerick that had been used in a crime (unknowingly to me) and I decided to hand it in, get one more gun off the streets ya know, how on earth would they go about proving I was the one who used it in the crime it is tied to.

    Would they swab me for GSR and take my prints ala CSI

    Completely hypothetical by the way


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Vegeta wrote:
    Completely hypothetical by the way
    Interesting hypothetical.
    The thing is, in my case (any many others here, I suspect), I probably would have GSR of some sort on me :D

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I think in that case Veg, you wouldn't need an amnesty as the firearm wasn't in your possession as such, you were merely handing in lost property...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Rovi wrote:
    The thing is, in my case (any many others here, I suspect), I probably would have GSR of some sort on me :D

    .

    Good point!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Sparks wrote:
    I think in that case Veg, you wouldn't need an amnesty as the firearm wasn't in your possession as such, you were merely handing in lost property...

    But then any criminal who was trying to get rid of a "piece" could just turn up at the local and say "yeah...I just..am...found, yeah that's it, i found this gun on the street and just want to hand it in to be destroyed"

    I think the whole thing is a bit of a joke really.

    I know the gardai cant just let guns used in crimes be handed in willy nilly but i cant see how they'd ever prove that the person handing it in was the person who used it in the crime.

    Will they also test fire and cross reference every single firearm that gets handed in???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Rovi wrote:
    Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed..
    Hmmm...
    It's been edited again (but still retains the 09:03 timestamp!).

    The "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but excludes weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" bit is back, along with: "[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Included in the act is the weapons amnesty. Guns, knives and offensive weapons will be covered."

    .
    [/FONT]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Pickyournose


    People should speak out against this oppressive nonsense legislation and demand laws/rights similiar to the 2nd Amendment in the U.S. here in Ireland and all over the E.U.!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭BryanL


    just asking,
    but does an airgun over one joule have the same status as any other firearm?and is it going to be possible to hunt vermin with one.it also seems like it'd be very hard to get a second gun in the same calibre without very good reason?
    the act doesn't seem to mention anything about bringing guns into the country or importing guns,does anyone know anything about that?
    thanks for any info. Bryan


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    An airgun over one joule has precisely the same status as any other firearm, legally.

    There aren't any restrictions I'm aware of as to what you hunt vermin with. That's not to definitively say there are none though. Anyone else help out here?

    Bringing guns in and out is a bit grey. There are import certs that the DoJ want filled out, but technically if you have your licence, you don't need to so long as you're going across the border with them yourself. Any of the firearms dealers on the board can give you a better idea.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭babybundy


    ( d ) the possession or carriage of a firearm or ammunition in the ordinary course of business by a person engaged in the business of carrying or of warehousing goods for reward;
    if i'm reading this right this means a private secuity company (securicor) could apply for afirearms licences
    The Commissioner, on application and payment of the prescribed fee (if any), may issue to a person over 14 years of age a certificate (in this Act referred to as a “firearms training certificate”) authorising the person to possess a firearm and ammunition (except a restricted firearm and restricted ammunition) only while—

    i thought the age was 16 before


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    Nope, it's so the postman or DHL fella doesn't get arrested whilst delivering a gun.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    i thought the age was 16 before
    Still is for a full cert. Training certs are a different animal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭babybundy


    ah now i follow i was getting worried


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭FLAG


    Hi Folks

    No surprises some minor amendments to the Firearms Acts through the CJA 2007, Head 50 refers: As attached.

    J&K reference relates to an error in the CJA 2006 related to authorisations for firearms for members of the airport autority to allow them use them in the course of their work.

    FLAG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    The briefing given by Declan to head office (and to the NARGC) on the meeting with the DoJ recently:
    From: FLAG [mailto:flagireland@eircom.net ]
    Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:55 AM
    Subject: New Firearms Certification Fees
    Hi Folks

    Just to let you all know that we had our first meeting with the new principal officer in the DOJ

    Essentially:

    1) Updated restricted firearms listing will be provided to us in or around the 20th April for review
    2) Firearms legislative Guidelines in draft presently will provide a copy when possible
    3) Range inspector and range authorisation unlikely to be put in place before the next certification time
    4) The new three year licence will not come into play till 2008
    5) Appeals process to District court while in place may not be effective as it refers to applications made to the superintendent under the new legislation which is not yet enacted, DOJ to seek advice from attorney general on the matter
    6) Finance Bill 2007 has published new certification fees: Scandalous: 3x +40% for the privilege of terrible service, in the memoranda they indicate that the three year licence introduction is to decrease the admin by the gardai!!! therefore not unreasonable to decrease fee, in essence if you own up to 6 firearms and a mix of rifles, pistols and shotguns be prepared to fork out �1,000 ish in fees for a three year licence!

    Rifle/Pistol/Revolver �170
    Shotgun �115
    Subs shotgun �30
    Reloading Cert �90
    Club Authorisation �1,000.00

    And this one takes the biscuit!!! A training certificate introduced to facilitate the training of individuals from 14 years of age will cost �170 for a rifle/pistol and �115.00 for a shotgun, they cannot even possess the gun, who in their right mind could think of such a thing. So mush for encouraging youth participation, assuming that a 14 year old gets it, he then has to fork out another �170 when he gets to 16 for his certificate. What a joke.

    In any case we do not know the current status of the Finance Bill 2007 but it requires urgent attention to change some of this clear rip off.

    Declan

    Can I just be the first to thank Declan for his choice to use Boards.ie as the first place to report information on firearms legislation, even before he reports it to the rest of the committee he's working for?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭FLAG


    Sparks wrote:
    The briefing given by Declan to head office (and to the NARGC) on the meeting with the DoJ recently:


    Can I just be the first to thank Declan for his choice to use Boards.ie as the first place to report information on firearms legislation, even before he reports it to the rest of the committee he's working for?

    Can't win can I, I'm dammed if I do not give information and I am dammed if I do. For Marks information the Chairman of the SSAI attended the meeting with Justice and it was agreed that the Chairman would report on the proceedings to the committee! Clearly the issue was of grave importance to all and I dared to explain the situation by publishing the data on the boards.

    I can also confirm that I called Des Crofton of the NARGC on the Wednesday PM and briefed him on the lisence increases, to that point he was unaware of the increases also, I am sure Mark will have some runle to quote that I broke in discussing the matter with Des.

    Please be aware that these boards are open to anybody to look at and the bull that is perpetrated by certain individuals will do the shooting community no good, just remenber that Mark!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    the Chairman of the SSAI attended the meeting with Justice and it was agreed that the Chairman would report on the proceedings to the committee!
    And yet, there's your email briefing the remainder of the committee later on.
    Just can't help it, can you?
    Please be aware that these boards are open to anybody to look at and the bull that is perpetrated by certain individuals will do the shooting community no good, just remenber that Mark!
    I'll take my chances with something we can all see over those with some loose cannon going off and speaking on our behalf without planning or oversight any day of the week.

    BTW, we weren't the first place to put that email up on the net Declan, so I'd be throwing rocks somewhere else first.

    Besides, it's too damn funny. You've posted a half-dozen different "I've had enough, I'm going home and taking my ball with me!" posts on here over the past few years, but suddenly you're reporting stuff here before you report it to your own committee? Even you would have to admit the irony there Declan...

    Can't win can I, I'm dammed if I do not give information and I am dammed if I do
    No, you're just damned if you don't. If you'd just keep people informed about things the way we've been asking you to for the past seven years or more, none of this slagging would ever have happened. Or don't you remember what it was like seven or eight years ago Declan, with me covering your PRO duties for you when you were out of the country and Nick Flood was off winning silhouette competitions? You brought all this on yourself lad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45 DJKH


    As ever my sentiment to you is p*ssoff and go and spoil someone elses evening, you are really good at that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭jaycee


    Apparently , the rest of the CJB went through the Dáil yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    The not-really-all-that-secret-scuttlebutt is that the CJB has to go through fast because the Minister wants it enacted before the Dail is dissolved (as otherwise it becomes defunct).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭jaycee


    Figured as much ...:rolleyes:

    How is that going to work with commencement dates for the new sections...?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    No idea JC. He could sign the commencement orders on the way out the door (assuming he's not returned) and they'd still be valid. Which is why we should be holding off on celebrating too heavily on the licence fee thing, because until the election's done and dusted, everything is still up in the air -- and could come down on our heads without much warning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭Seamus357


    Has there been any update from the DOJ on the list of restricted firearms? The last I heard was that pistols above .22, rifles above .280, certain "military" calibres such as .223 and semi-automatic shotguns with a capacity of more then 3 rounds were to be restricted. I understand that the shooting bodies were pushing to allow pistols up to .38 and rifles to .32 to be unrestricted. Anyone heard anything?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    The official word is:
    My Department has consulted with An Garda Síochána, organisations representing different shooting interest groups and firearms dealers representatives regarding the drafting of this statutory instrument. I am satisfied that the final version which will be published, within the near future, will represent a reasonable balance between allowing people go about their business or interests lawfully while at the same time having due regard to public safety and security.

    The Commissioner in consultation with my Department has prepared draft guidelines on firearms licensing. The draft is currently being finalised and it is my intention that it will be circulated when ready.

    For the record, the NTSA was one of the bodies that met with the Department and we've formally objected to the propsed list (at least the draft we saw at that point) on five seperate grounds; that it restricted olympic smallbore pistols, that it restricted ISSF pistols based on cosmetic grounds with no objective basis, that it restricted other ISSF firearms based on cosmetic grounds with no objective basis, that it could be read to restrict certain ISSF air rifles, and because it restricted ISSF 300m rifles.

    We've never even had an acknowlegement to the objections, and we've been pushing for another meeting with the Department (and perhaps someone a bit higher up than the most junior civil servants available on the day this time); so far no response until the licence fees issue came up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭Seamus357


    Hi Sparks,
    Has there been any update on the DOJ restricted firearms list since last April?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Not so far as I know Seamus. We've pointed out several problems with it to the DoJ and they've accepted that the wording that was in it was a problem (for example, a lot of ISSF rifles were on the list because of their stock design). They told us they'd change that, but we've not seen the result yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 brian.mcmanus


    Hello,

    Left Ireland at 15 and before I took up shooting. Shot pistol in UK before they were banned. Now shooting rifle ( target and a little bit of game )

    Cnsidering a return to live in Ireland but cannt seem to find a definative list of what is permissable.

    Looked at the new 2006 amendments but they seem vague as t what is allowed.

    Can you possess semi auto rifles ? And pistols - are they back ?

    Anybody can give me a link to a website with a clear list of what is permissable ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Hello,

    Left Ireland at 15 and before I took up shooting. Shot pistol in UK before they were banned. Now shooting rifle ( target and a little bit of game )

    Cnsidering a return to live in Ireland but cannt seem to find a definative list of what is permissable.

    Looked at the new 2006 amendments but they seem vague as t what is allowed.

    Can you possess semi auto rifles ? And pistols - are they back ?

    Yes and yes, but there are lots of provisos. You need good reason for most firearms and for pistols you need to be a memberof an authorised pistol club plus other restrictions that have been mentioned elsewhere.

    Basically your local Superintendent is your licensing authority and what he says goes unless you want to spend time in court.
    Anybody can give me a link to a website with a clear list of what is permissable ?
    Because of the nature of the beast, no website is going to give you a definitive answer. You'll have to go through the process before you know what you can or can't have.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Folks

    After much hard work and gritting of teeth :), I have completed a long standing objective of consolidating all the Firearms Acts and bits of Firearms Acts over the years into one document.

    As best as I could, I've amended, repealed and substituted everything in order to make it as up to date as possible. The end result is the Firearms Act as it shoould stand were the entire thing to be consolidated into one Act.

    Each act (or part) is colour coded so you can see at a glance what bits came from where. Any amendments are annotated with the amending acts year and section.

    Enjoy :)

    If you spot any glaring errors please let me know.

    FIREARMS ACTS 1925 to 2007


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    rrpc wrote: »
    Folks

    After much hard work and gritting of teeth :), I have completed a long standing objective of consolidating all the Firearms Acts and bits of Firearms Acts over the years into one document.

    As best as I could, I've amended, repealed and substituted everything in order to make it as up to date as possible. The end result is the Firearms Act as it shoould stand were the entire thing to be consolidated into one Act.

    Each act (or part) is colour coded so you can see at a glance what bits came from where. Any amendments are annotated with the amending acts year and section.

    Enjoy :)

    If you spot any glaring errors please let me know.

    FIREARMS ACTS 1925 to 2007

    Very good of you to bother


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