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Speed Guns
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29-07-2006 12:38pm#1
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kearnsr wrote:In order for me to go from 60 to 50 I would've had to jammed on the brakes which would've been dangerous with cars behind me.
No as another posted pointed out when you saw the 50km sign you should have slowed down before you passed it so you were at it when you passed it... Thats the law... no one does it of course.
I think the Garda was making sure people were slowing down and not speeding through at 80kph. The difference between 50 and 60 is not very noticable. Garda also has to take into account margin of error on both his gun and your speedo.
Anyway... they have to pull you over and show you the speed! So you are fine.. you cant get a letter in the post about it
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Saruman wrote:No as another posted pointed out when you saw the 50km sign you should have slowed down before you passed it so you were at it when you passed it... Thats the law... no one does it of course.
I think the Garda was making sure people were slowing down and not speeding through at 80kph. The difference between 50 and 60 is not very noticable. Garda also has to take into account margin of error on both his gun and your speedo.
Anyway... they have to pull you over and show you the speed! So you are fine.. you cant get a letter in the post about it
Cheers thats what I was looking for.
I can appriacte that if you see a sign that you slow down so that when you pass the sign you are doing the correct speed. But what happenes if you are doing say 100 and all off a sudden there is a 60 sign that is behind a corner or obstructed in some way? Breaking suddenly would mean dangerous driving?
Any ways lesson learned for me. When you see a sign make sure your doing the correct speed before you pass it!0 -
Saruman wrote:The difference between 50 and 60 is not very noticable. Garda also has to take into account margin of error on both his gun and your speedo.
Anyway... they have to pull you over and show you the speed! So you are fine.. you cant get a letter in the post about it
Sorry to pull you up on this, but a Garda doesn't have to pull you up if you are speeding and zapped on a gun, though they will often do so, it's a good way to knock the cobblers out of a driver from putting the foot down, and it has worked with me (How will a hidden check pull one up, or a fixed camera or the dreaded camera vans?). Also, while a margin of error can be allowed for, it is not absolute and binding to assume this is the case, there has been fines issued for minimal breaches of the speed limits.
The speeding fine that is sent out basically says one has been alleged to have been doing XKmh in a YKmh zone (the area one is caught in will be named on the ticket) on a given date and time, and that you have the option of either paying the fine and assuming the points, or you can procede to the courts to defend the charge. Those that agree to pay the fine will not have comeback to reverse the penalties, as they have effectively agreed to have broken the limit and are taking their medicine.
Your best way out of it if you feel aggrived about it, or if it a genuine error or you have a case to defend, get a solicitor and s/he can make your case. About half of motoring offences in the courts get dismissed so there is a fair chance of evading a penalty, though court fines are far higher than fixed fines; one also has legal costs to allow for in a courtroom as well.0 -
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kearnsr wrote:How long would it take for all this to happen?
So does any one know the actually procedure? I thought you had to be pulled over and shown the speed and penalty points were awarded to you then via pulse on the spot?
A speed gun only regeisters speed doesnt it?
If you were caught with a van or a fixed camera then I could imagine you getting them via the post.
I also noted that fixed cameras give a tollereance of 10kmph above the speed limit (was in another thread) is this true and if so does it apply to speed guns?
AFAIK, by law the Gardaí have 28 days from alleged offence to issue an on the spot fine.
Generally, yes, you would be pulled over and made aware of what you have done; this is common procedure as they can check your car tax, licence and ascertain if you are drink driving at the same time; also there may be a genuine reason why you were speeding eg getting an urgently ill person to hospital. However, all they have to do is note your registration number and issue a fine to the owner of the car, so be careful. Also, a speed gun need not be the proof speeding, all it takes is the word of a Garda in court. My aunt was pulled over in Mayo some years ago by a patrol car who estimated her speed at 100MPH+ by virtue of this was what it took him to catch her. She chose to take it to court as the summons had a different variation of her name on it to her own. When she took the stand, she brought it to the judges attention. He asked her was it her car that the Garda pulled over, was she speeding and was she driving, to which she replied yes. The judge then found her guilty and fined her for speeding, as she was aware that the papers were issued for her.
I will check out what is on a gun and what exactly it can and can't do and get back to you (I have a friend who knows these things
), but I assume it is set to a relevant speed limit for the area it is being used on at any given time. Certainly, you see hidden speed traps around the roads so there must be some pictorial record taken by same; there is a requirement to prove you were there at the time so a picture must be issued if required as evidence; this did come up in cases a few years ago.
I have heard that the camera's have an allowance of a few KMh, but I won't be taking the risk to find out!0 -
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In response to Bond, if you own a car then it is reasonable to assume that you indeed are driving your own car. If somebody else is driving my car or your own car, then it goes without saying that we don't want to assume somebody's points not to mention a potential conviction under Section 107 so logic says you will let the Gardaí know who was driving one's car at the time of said offence. In any case, if you were to say to a court that you were NOT the driver at the time of an offence, you would need evidence to prove your innocence on the date of hearing of a summons and of who was in control of your car on the occassion, risking both prosecution of a speeding fine and a section 107 (Which are two seperate offences so therein lies two potential prosecutions).
In response to Keanesr, the Garda will give evidence to the court of an alleged speeding offence, which can be a pic off a camera or his word of persuaint of a speeder or a speedgun (which would need a print off from the gun of a speed and date and time or an independent witness, which can include another Garda) and once a judge is happy with their witness of a crime, the defence is up to you. In cases of cases dismissed, this is where most cases are screwed up, either by wrong charges called up or insufficient paperwork or evidence or the like, and not from genuine innocence. It's too much hassle for a Garda to bring you up for this pettiness, though it does happen all too often
And in response to Happy Bertie, Most "Family" Cars can easy do 100MPH. Al they have to do is catch speeders, not chase them all day long. IN any case, try saying their cars are underpowered when your skanger mates (Usually in a aging Civic or Colt) get hauled up by the Traffic Corp's new babies 0 -
I'm sorry this is such a long post but:
In relation to notification the Gardai have three options all of which are under Section 104 of the Road Traffic Act 1961
1. Stop you, tell you OR tell you within 24 hours
2. Notify you within 14 days thay they intend taking you to court
3. Issue summons within 14 days.
Note: it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that the requirement of this section has been complied with.
There's the gotcha.
3 will not be done, warning letter is enough. Nowadays (under the 2002 Act) you get two periods of warning 28 and 56 days, and the fine goes up during them, then if the fine is not paid, a summons issues and you're off to court.
To sum up, they do not have to pull you. The fact they didnt dosnt mean you're off the hook.Points are only given to the driver after they admit their guilt or are convicted. What the RO receives is simple a notice requesting the idenity of the driver which is a requirement of S107 of the Road Traffic Act 1961. If the RO fails to nominate a driver , he/she is guilty of a S107 offence and not speeding. I don't know the penalites for this but it is not a points offense
The Section 107 proceedure is an alternative proceedure which the gardai may employ. Also, note that in Section 107 it is an offence to not give information, it is also an offence to give misleading information. "or are convicted" if you dont defend, once properly served, you are convicted.In practice the Gardai would try to charge the RO with the speeding but unless they have proof beyond all reasonable doubt that the RO was the driver, ie a clear photograph, they will be on a looser.
What usually happens is that once they have proof of a summons having being served, if the RO dosnt turn up in court the points (4) are automatic, see above.What the RO receives is simple a notice requesting the idenity of the driver which is a requirement of S107 of the Road Traffic Act 1961.
Its presumed that the RO is the driver unless he shows evidence to the contary. Failure to show that results in the summons being issued aginst the RO, again see above.In my experience I've driven past gatsos at up to 8mph over the shown limit about a dozen times and not been penalised, they definitely seem to target people severely over the limit rather than people marginally over the limit
Funny you should mention that. Is it A) the fact that car speedos are obliged to show a faster speed than you are doing (for safety reasons they cannot show a slower speed)
the margin of error (about 5mph in some guns) C) a local divisonal rule incorporating a limit of 10% or maybe all three? 0 -
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