McDowell's U-Turn

DeVore

Until its regulated, pretty much yes. Noone is going to establish case law in an area where the law has been declared to change by the minister himself.

I still hope the nannyish little hitler gets turfed out next election.

DeV.

5starpool

..... is probably what the headline of this article from the Indo today should read.

wrote:

Cabinet agreement after McDowell backs off from club-ban position following meeting with Taoiseach


JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell backed away from an all-or-nothing pitch to ban casinos when the odds became stacked up against his proposal getting through Cabinet.

Instead of seeking a showdown, Mr McDowell had a private meeting with the Taoiseach after which it was agreed that a memo be brought to the Government.

And on Wednesday the Cabinet agreed that regulating and licensing gambling clubs was a better bet than outright prohibition.

Yesterday the minister emphasised that there were no plans to legalise Las Vegas casino scale operations. He said local authorities would have a say in whether or not gambling clubs would be permitted in their areas.

And in a conspicuous act of solidarity, the Tanaiste said that prohibiting gambling in clubs was "not realistic in this day and age".

However, the Opposition accused Mr McDowell of backing down following pressure from Cabinet colleagues.

Fine Gael justice spokesman Jim O'Keeffe said Mr McDowell had been forced to make a humiliating u-turn and said Fine Gael had no problem with properly regulated and policed casino clubs.

Last November, Mr McDowell looked closely at closing gambling clubs after the Garda Commissioner ordered detectives to monitor how the clubs operated.

The number of clubs had risen from five to 15 over the previous two years and they are now in every city and many provincial towns.

The Garda had become uneasy about their legality after it emerged in evidence that a 19-year-old accused in the Annabel's case had gone to a Dublin casino after the killing and stayed until 7am.

Privately, Mr McDowell expressed grave worries about the clubs and the possibility that they could be used as a front for laundering the proceeds of crime.

And the plan to crack down on casinos came just a couple of weeks after multi-millionaire Dermot Desmond opened his €6.5m state-of-the-art gambling club in Dublin city centre. Desmond was furious and believed the move against gambling clubs was a personal attack on his investment.

But when a conference of gardai and law officers from the Department of Justice examined the legislation they decided that to bring a successful prosecution of gambling clubs would be extremely difficult.

"Proving a game of roulette was illegal would require detailed examinations of the rules of roulette and then getting statements from all the players to see if they understood the rules," said a source.

Mr McDowell was also aware that his view of gambling was not shared by everyone in government when he met the Taoiseach, although they agreed the 1956 Gaming and Lotteries Act needed amending.

When he brought his memo to government some weeks ago, Mr McDowell was even more sensitive to the charge that he could be holier-than-thou in his approach.

In Cabinet the growth of on-line gambling was acknowledged and that a lot of people liked to play poker and if it was banned, it would go underground with hiring hotel rooms being hired to play in.

On Wednesday, The Cabinet decided it should legislate for a limited form of gambling establishments regulated by a Commission.

And anyone seeking a licence should go through a similar process as those seeking a betting shop licence where applicants must apply to the court, register with the Garda and satisfy them they are suitable persons after getting a certificate from the court.

Successful applicants for a betting licence also have to prove themselves tax complaint and then pay 3pc tax on turnover. A privately owned gambling club where cash is the currency, is only taxed on its profits.

jtsuited

I really don't think this is going to be end of this. As Dev said about the pirate radio stations, the regulation is most likely going to be a way of Dermot Desmond laughing all the way to the bank about this one.

If anyone has experienced first hand what the BCI (broadcasting regulators) are like, you will have some idea of what the casino regulators are going to do.
This could be bad for poker players, very bad indeed!

NickyOD

I would be a little concerned if I was working as a dealer/croupier right now. Regulation could mean the end end of tips. In England this isn't as bad because you get paid quite well, but in ireland the wage is terrible so tips are a big part of the salary. It could also mean that everyone currently working as a dealer/croupier/TD will need to apply for a licence to be able to work in an irish casino. This is why many eastern europeans who are trained croupiers from countries that don't have gaming authoritites come to Ireland because they don't have the a license to work in the UK. Should a licence be required would those non-nationals currently working in Irish cardrooms be able to apply for one?

ArmaniJeanss

NickyOD wrote:

I Should a licence be required would those non-nationals currently working in Irish cardrooms be able to apply for one?

I'd be almost sure that EU nationals would have to be entitled to apply. NonEU nationals, possibly not.

The wages/tipping thing - personally I think it would be good if tips were banned and casinos then had to pay a decent wage to attract staff.
When tips are used to supplement meagre earnings then the whole industry is very close to the 'black economy'.

Waylander

Why do you think the tipping would be effected Nicky? I am not having a go, I just dont understand why you think this would be a problem.

RoundTower

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

I'd be almost sure that EU nationals would have to be entitled to apply. NonEU nationals, possibly not.

The wages/tipping thing - personally I think it would be good if tips were banned and casinos then had to pay a decent wage to attract staff.
When tips are used to supplement meagre earnings then the whole industry is very close to the 'black economy'.

The rake would go up and the dealers would end up getting paid the same but provide less service.

ArmaniJeanss

RoundTower wrote:

The rake would go up and the dealers would end up getting paid the same but provide less service.

I 100% agree with you, but still see it as a positive thing. The rake would go up to the proper market level, not subsidised by 'black market' tipping of minimum wage staff. My ex-gf's email address ends in '@revenue.ie', so I've had my ear bent over this sort of thing a lot.

RoundTower

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

I 100% agree with you, but still see it as a positive thing. The rake would go up to the proper market level, not subsidised by 'black market' tipping of minimum wage staff. My ex-gf's email address ends in '@revenue.ie', so I've had my ear bent over this sort of thing a lot.

I don't understand - there's nothing black market about dealers relying on tips for part of their income. No more than a car salesman relying on commission. And of course while I can't speak for other cardrooms, staff at the Fitz are encouraged to report all their income to the Revenue Commissioners.