basic Rules of The Road many People dont know.

Diamondmaker

The concurrent thread on the undertaking 306 got me thinking of this.

3 specific incidents where I get really pissed off. I am pretty sure of the rules in the situations but I am open to any correction or clarification from anyone who can SUBSTANTIATE what they say.

1. Right turn on a 1 way street. During my journey home every day I do this twice in the city centre.
Often you approach the end of the road, take up appropriate position on the right to make your turn.
A car already at the end of the road, on the left, then gives you looks and starts to indicate right also! I hold my ground and make my turn to a blast from their horn!
Right turn on 1 way street should be done from the RHS.

2. Similar to above. Approaching one of our fair cities many dodgy small roundabouts.
The rules of the road allow you pass straight through a R@B in both lanes only if there are 2 lanes on the other side also. Balinteer from the M50 has many such examples. You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) and all of a sudden they are freaking out that you have "undertook" or "cut them off" when they realise there is only 1lane on the other side.
RHL is for RH turn in this case not straight.

3. Again quite similar. Approaching a cross roads 2 lanes in all directions. If you cannot see the first car in the queue on the RHS you cannot be sure they are not turning right and hence slow your progress. It obviuosly makes sense to use the LH lane. You drive up the LH lane and "queue jump" all the cars in the RH lane. Light goes green the cars in the RH lane want to go straight and lift you out of it. The LH lane is the default for straight for the obvious reason that RH turners can slow up traffic while waiting to manouvere.

I put all the above situations to my advanced driving instructor who confrimed what I thought. ....but the standard of knowledge out there is so poor that I am not 100% confident on anythng anyone tells you.
The roundabout scenario I looked up in rules of road. ( which does not cover 2 lanes to 1 scenario!! )
The 1 way street is deffo correct also from RoR.

Id like to hear further examples or corrections to mine.
cheers

Vegeta

Diamondmaker wrote:

The concurrent thread on the undertaking 306 got me thinking of this.

3 specific incidents where I get really pissed off. I am pretty sure of the rules in the situations but I am open to any correction or clarification from anyone who can SUBSTANTIATE what they say.

1. Right turn on a 1 way street. During my journey home every day I do this twice in the city centre.
Often you approach the end of the road, take up appropriate position on the right to make your turn.
A car already at the end of the road, on the left, then gives you looks and starts to indicate right also! I hold my ground and make my turn to a blast from their horn!
Right turn on 1 way street should be done from the RHS.

2. Similar to above. Approaching one of our fair cities many dodgy small roundabouts.
The rules of the road allow you pass straight through a R@B in both lanes only if there are 2 lanes on the other side also. Balinteer from the M50 has many such examples. You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) and all of a sudden they are freaking out that you have "undertook" or "cut them off" when they realise there is only 1lane on the other side.
RHL is for RH turn in this case not straight.

3. Again quite similar. Approaching a cross roads 2 lanes in all directions. If you cannot see the first car in the queue on the RHS you cannot be sure they are not turning right and hence slow your progress. It obviuosly makes sense to use the LH lane. You drive up the LH lane and "queue jump" all the cars in the RH lane. Light goes green the cars in the RH lane want to go straight and lift you out of it. The LH lane is the default for straight for the obvious reason that RH turners can slow up traffic while waiting to manouvere.

I put all the above situations to my advanced driving instructor who confrimed what I thought. ....but the standard of knowledge out there is so poor that I am not 100% confident on anythng anyone tells you.
The roundabout scenario I looked up in rules of road. ( which does not cover 2 lanes to 1 scenario!! )
The 1 way street is deffo correct also from RoR.

Id like to hear further examples or corrections to mine.
cheers

Don't forget road markings they may negate your arguements in some cases, for example if coming up to a cross roads with 2 lanes and the LHL says left only well then you cant exactly drive straight but you know this and I am just saying it out loud.

same with round abouts sometimes road markings will dictate what lane can go where, in most cases though you are correct.

alias no.9

All of the above are correct unless there are signs or road markings that indicate differently for example there are cases where there are two lanes approaching traffic lights and the left one is marked left only and the right one is marked straight on and right. I know of at least one t-junction with traffic lights where coming off the side road there are two lanes, the right hand one marked for right turns and the left hand one marked for both right and left turns.

BendiBus

Stopping in a yellow box when making a right turn is permitted BUT YOUR EXIT MUST STILL BE CLEAR. You can only stop in the yellow box because there is oncoming traffic. This causes me so much grief in the mornings as roads get blocked by right turning traffic when the lights change and they're in the yellow box with nowhere to go!

Vegeta

alias no.9 wrote:

All of the above are correct unless there are signs or road markings that indicate differently for example there are cases where there are two lanes approaching traffic lights and the left one is marked left only and the right one is marked straight on and right. I know of at least one t-junction with traffic lights where coming off the side road there are two lanes, the right hand one marked for right turns and the left hand one marked for both right and left turns.

yup what he said

prospect

Diamondmaker wrote:

You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight)

You only indicate left entering the roundabout if you are taking the first exit, (although this may be physically straight in front of you).
If the 'straight' exit is the second exit, then you do not indicate left until you are passing the first exit.

zuutroy

Diamondmaker wrote:

2. Similar to above. Approaching one of our fair cities many dodgy small roundabouts.
The rules of the road allow you pass straight through a R@B in both lanes only if there are 2 lanes on the other side also. Balinteer from the M50 has many such examples. You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) and all of a sudden they are freaking out that you have "undertook" or "cut them off" when they realise there is only 1lane on the other side.
RHL is for RH turn in this case not straight.

Here's one for ya....coming over porterstown bridge there's a roundabout intersecting with Clonsilla Road with 2 lanes.....Exit 1 has one lane; Exit 2 (straight on) has one lane; There is no exit 3 as its a one way st.

Surely If I want to take exit 1 I get in the left lane and exit 2 I get in the right lane, but almost every day I see people using the left lane for exit 2 nearly causing a crash (not to mention the number of people that turn across you with no indicator on)

Diamondmaker

Vegeta wrote:

Don't forget road markings they may negate your arguements in some cases, for example if coming up to a cross roads with 2 lanes and the LHL says left only well then you cant exactly drive straight but you know this and I am just saying it out loud.

same with round abouts sometimes road markings will dictate what lane can go where, in most cases though you are correct.

100% agreed. Consider all my point where there are no extra road markings

thewing

My ROR bugbear has to be incorrect indication on a roudabout.If taking third exit you indicate right and then left after passing 2nd exit to show your takin 3rd exit.Most people either don't bother, or just go around indicating left, leaving people trying to gain entry to roundabout thinking they are goin to exit, leading to some near misses(I've seen them happen)....

fletch

zuutroy wrote:

Here's one for ya....coming over porterstown bridge there's a roundabout intersecting with Clonsilla Road with 2 lanes.....Exit 1 has one lane; Exit 2 (straight on) has one lane; There is no exit 3 as its a one way st.

Surely If I want to take exit 1 I get in the left lane and exit 2 I get in the right lane, but almost every day I see people using the left lane for exit 2 nearly causing a crash (not to mention the number of people that turn across you with no indicator on)

I see this all the time too and I'm not sure of the answer....if you are to go by the rules of the road then if you are going straight, you should use the left lane but then this would make the right hand lane redundant.....

Diamondmaker

prospect wrote:

You only indicate left entering the roundabout if you are taking the first exit, (although this may be physically straight in front of you).
If the 'straight' exit is the second exit, then you do not indicate left until you are passing the first exit.

sorry put a comma in instead of a full stop.


You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right, <then> you indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) ( after passing the 1st. Not indicating at time of pulling up )

Diamondmaker

zuutroy wrote:

Here's one for ya....coming over porterstown bridge there's a roundabout intersecting with Clonsilla Road with 2 lanes.....Exit 1 has one lane; Exit 2 (straight on) has one lane; There is no exit 3 as its a one way st.

Surely If I want to take exit 1 I get in the left lane and exit 2 I get in the right lane, but almost every day I see people using the left lane for exit 2 nearly causing a crash (not to mention the number of people that turn across you with no indicator on)

100% agreed we have these magic rounabouts every where with so many different variations. Strictly speaking you probably should use the LHL to go straight but practically it makes no sense.

This is where the relevant authorities should splash out and use some more paint and put up relevant signage where these "non standard" sceanrios occur.

Vegeta

fletch wrote:

I see this all the time too and I'm not sure of the answer....if you are to go by the rules of the road then if you are going straight, you should use the left lane but then this would make the right hand lane redundant.....

yup the left hand lane is for the second exit, the right hand lane is for third and subsequent in this case probably going back the way you came as you cant take the third exit.

They should put down road markings and that'd sort it out

Diamondmaker

Another scenario where a sign or a splash of paint would save so much traffic chaos.
Going down dundrum road towards Milltown there is a small RH turn onto Bird Ave. If any one is turning right there is often not enough room to go inside them to carry on straight.
The junction itself is wide enough that if a decent road position is taken by the RH turner traffic can continue straight in both direction while they wait.
A bit of paint dictating to keep straight lane clear would save mad tail backs here every day due to the straight ahead lane coming to a complete stop as 1RH turner has to wait a whole light cycle to make their turn.

GGGRRRRR:mad:

prospect

Diamondmaker wrote:

sorry put a comma in instead of a full stop.


You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right, <then> you indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) ( after passing the 1st. Not indicating at time of pulling up )

I figured you meant that, I was just making it clear in case any of the idiots you are giving out about are reading this..

BrianD3

Diamondmaker wrote:

2. Similar to above. Approaching a one of our fair cities very dodgy small roundabouts.
The rules of the road allow you pass straight through a R@B in both lanes only if there are 2 lanes on the other side. balinteer from the M50 has many such examples. You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit and all of a sudden they are freaing out that you have undertook them when they realise there is only 1 lane on the other side. RHL is for RH turn in this case not straight.

3. Again quite similar. Approaching a cross roads 2 lanes in all directions. If you cannot see the first car in the queue on the RHS you cannot be sure they are not turning right and hence slow your progress. It obviuosly makes sense to use the LH lane. You drive up the LH lane and "queue jump" all the cars in the RH lane. Light goes green the cars in the RH lane want to go straight and lift you out of it. The LH lane is the default for straight for the obvious reason that RH turners can slow up traffic while waiting to manouvere.

I agree with what others have said about road markings. The road markings/design contribute to both of the above IMO. There is a lack of consistency in signage, road designs and road markings which confuses drivers. Eg if you're on a road with two lanes and you approach a junction and want to go straight you can't be sure what lane you're supposed to be in till you're virtually on top of the junction. You could find that the right lane is marked for straight/right and the left is left only. Or vice versa. Or you can go straight in either lane. Probably depends on the traffic light sequence.

Same with roundabouts - often there are direction arrows marked on the approach to roundabouts. Sometimes the LH lane is marked as left (first exit) only and the RH lane is straight/right. Also if there are two lanes approaching a roundabout and only one on the 2nd exit drivers may not know this until they reach the exit.

Tobias Greeshman

There's a roundabout in Maynooth at the Business Park, that has the slip road off the M4, which lets traffic onto the roundabout. Every 2 months or so, some idiot tries to drive up the slip-road (it really has to be seen to be believed). On a roundabout sign a small red rectangle means that you cannot go down that exit (either it's closed off or one-way traffic). But some people must think it's meant to signify the business park.

The most recent idiot was driving a cement truck.

Vegeta

BrianD3 wrote:

I agree with what others have said about road markings. The road markings/design contribute to both of the above IMO. There is a lack of consistency in signage, road designs and road markings which confuses drivers. Eg if you're on a road with two lanes and you approach a junction and want to go straight you can't be sure what lane you're supposed to be in till you're virtually on top of the junction. You could find that the right lane is marked for straight/right and the left is left only. Or vice versa. Or you can go straight in either lane. Probably depends on the traffic light sequence.

Same with roundabouts - often there are direction arrows marked on the approach to roundabouts. Sometimes the LH lane is marked as left (first exit) only and the RH lane is straight/right. Also if there are two lanes approaching a roundabout and only one on the 2nd exit drivers may not know this until they reach the exit.

nail on the head.

In Ireland you have to know all the roads, crosses, junctions and lights to drive safely without impeeding other road users. The most stressful thing about driving in Irish cities is the above, unless you know the junctions it is often difficult to know which lane you should be in. Nightmare if you drive into a different city for the first time and have to start lane hopping and holding up traffic.

It probably causes very few deaths as it would be relatively low speed stuff but very annoying all the same.

Anan1

Agree fully with what Diamondmaker has said, and have one of my own to add. There's a normal, fairly small junction with lights near where I live. Imagine I'm the second car at the lights when they go green, with a queue of cars behind me. The car in front of me wants to turn right, but is prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic. Rather than move forwards to the centre of the junction so that we can pass around them, they sit at the lights until they get the green filter light at the end of the cycle to turn right. The result is that maybe 15 fewer cars get to pass through the green light.

dubred

Diamondmaker wrote:

2. Similar to above. Approaching one of our fair cities many dodgy small roundabouts.
The rules of the road allow you pass straight through a R@B in both lanes only if there are 2 lanes on the other side also. Balinteer from the M50 has many such examples. You pull up in the left lane aside a car on the right. You indicate left to leave the 2nd exit (straight) and all of a sudden they are freaking out that you have "undertook" or "cut them off" when they realise there is only 1lane on the other side.
RHL is for RH turn in this case not straight.

I use these roundabouts on a daily basis, the one at Wesley College really only has 2 proper roads exiting it as does the next one at what used to be Gort Mhuire (if you observe the sign on the right approaching the Gort Mhuire one it suggests the 3rd exit is not a road!!), in both cases the 2nd exit could be described as beyond straight.

I tend to use the RH lane with extreme care when coming from the M50 (or sometimes both lanes just in case;) ) and LH lane when approaching the M50 in the case of these roundabouts for the very reasons you describe.

I believe these particular roundabouts would benefit from specific markings to clarify the situation.

I normally observe the rules as you have stated them but I think in these particular cases you have to assess the situation as you arrive at it.

Am I completely wrong??

Vegeta

Anan1 wrote:

Agree fully with what Diamondmaker has said, and have one of my own to add. There's a normal, fairly small junction with lights near where I live. Imagine I'm the second car at the lights when they go green, with a queue of cars behind me. The car in front of me wants to turn right, but is prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic. Rather than move forwards to the centre of the junction so that we can pass around them, they sit at the lights until they get the green filter light at the end of the cycle to turn right. The result is that maybe 15 fewer cars get to pass through the green light.

on that note i have to ask the question

What is the legal position there, some roads have boxes out in the centre with arrows going right indicating the driver should pull out and some roads don't. Can i legally (as in i wont fail my test for doing so) drive into the centre of all junctions (what about yellow box) with the indicator on waiting for a gap in traffic.

Also what happens if the light goes red (didn't get a gap in traffic) while I am in the centre of the road.

Hope that's clear

EDIT: for the recod i do pull out (unless there's a yellow box) and wait for a gap but i want to know what happens in the test if i do this and the lights go red

Diamondmaker

If you did not get a gap in the traffic and the light goes red you should high tail it out of there on your merry way, you cant sit there for any reason.

Dubred yes those are the very R@Bs im on about. I think it is clear so far and confimred from all so far that the RH lane is for the RH turn in these instances where 2 lanes become 1. These rounabout all have a RH turn also which make the sitaution more clear cut unlike the 1 way street scenario mentioned

But people do not know this and will continue to crash or blast people who drive through in the Left lane.

Diamondmaker

Anan1 wrote:

Agree fully with what Diamondmaker has said, and have one of my own to add. There's a normal, fairly small junction with lights near where I live. Imagine I'm the second car at the lights when they go green, with a queue of cars behind me. The car in front of me wants to turn right, but is prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic. Rather than move forwards to the centre of the junction so that we can pass around them, they sit at the lights until they get the green filter light at the end of the cycle to turn right. The result is that maybe 15 fewer cars get to pass through the green light.

Damn it its no fun if we agree with each other;)

shoegirl

A lot of Irish roundabouts are very badly designed or badly finished, I notice the difference in the UK where I drive regularly every couple of months around the M4 between Heathrow and Berks.

My main problems are the following:

1. Not understanding the meaning of a red light -
- going through a red light when turning left or right because driver didn't understand that junctions were NOT slip roads
- ignoring a red light because there is no other traffic on the road
and my big annoyance - driving through a pedestrian light when the pedestrian light is green because they were turning the corner and ignored the red light at the crossing
2. Not understanding how to use a pelican crossing - i.e. the ones where there are no buttons and the pedestrian just walks out onto the road - have seen many clueless young males (its always clueless young males!) on one at Midleton who seemed to thing that they had a right to drive straight through even though there was a pedestrian already crossing.
3. Treating STOP signs as if they were YIELD signs
4. Indicating right when entering a roundabout and then driving striaght ahead
5. Cabbages who allow themselves to become totally distracted by their passengers
6. Discourteous parking, especially double-parking on busy streets
7. Cabbages who overtake a cyclist and then immediately turn left
8. People who cross two lanes at once, usually when exiting a two-lane carriageway onto an exit road
9. Tailgating - arrgh!

prospect

Diamondmaker wrote:

If you did not get a gap in the traffic and the light goes red you should high tail it out of there on your merry way, you cant sit there for any reason.

Might not be that simple as there may be a green light for pedestrians on the road you are turning into.

Anan1

Diamondmaker wrote:

Damn it its no fun if we agree with each other;)

Patience, it won't last forever.;)

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

Might not be that simple as there may be a green light for pedestrians on the road you are turning into.

i think it might be one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. Its been driving me nuts not knowing exactly what to do in a test situation :mad:

Blitzkrieger

shoegirl wrote:

on one at Midleton who seemed to thing that they had a right to drive straight through even though there was a pedestrian already crossing.

You know it's amazing how easy it is to not see that. When you've spent ten years zooming over the bridge and hoping to god there's not another tractor in front of you no amount of stripes and flashing amber lights will force you to not see what you're expecting to see.

What I hate about Midleton is how close fuppers park to the corners, on double yellows usually. Put it in the car park and walk you lazy twits!

Diamondmaker

Yeah and you look like a muppet floating there in no mans land!!

Yeah yeah yeah yeah!!!!

Another one!

Do red lights mean anything in this country??I work with a lot of foreign preofessionals and they are all shocked from Slovakia to Sweden and UK to UAE ( not really but rhymed:D )

During rush hour every junction has several cars clearly break the red light every time guaranteed.
The effect of a back log of cars in the junction who skipped the light delays the oncoming traffic to differing degrees. This knock on effect of the oncoming traffic losing green time beacuse of extra cars ahead that skipped the light have to clear first causes a viscous circle where cars can never go on green but have to wait for these to clear. The cycle continues and the delay grows and it goes on forever. The cops watch I have never ever seen a car pulled from breaking a light like this even though I would say I see it done to and from work 20/30 times a day easy.

Wishbone Ash

Anyone familiar with Collinstown Cross junction on the R132 near Dublin Airport?

Travelling southbound there are two lanes. The left lane is marked for going straight ahead. The right lane is marked for going straight ahead also or for turning right.

The problem arising is with the traffic light sequence. It provides a green right filter arrow with a red light. Many motorists who are unfamiliar with the light sequence and who wish to travel straight ahead use the right lane. They are technically correct as the lane is marked so but this appears to incur the wrath of motorists (especially taxis) who wish to turn right and get caught behind them.

I would have assumed that a green right arrow should only be used where there is a dedicated lane.

Fey!

Young lad goes for driving lessons, and as he approcahes the first set of traffic lights, the light turns amber. He drops a gear and floors it, flying through the lights.

"Why'd ya do that?" asks the instructor.
"Da brudders a taxi droiver, 'n 'e tole me dat wen da lites go oranje, it means speed upp" comes the reply.

Next set of lights go red just as they reach them, so the youngster again drops a gear and floors it through.

"Why the hell did ya do that????"
"Da broider tole me dat wen da lites go red, nuttin'll be cummin for a few sekonds, so ya can still get thru"

Next set of light go green just as they reach them, and the young lad hits the anchors with all of his might.

"What the f^*k did you do THAT for?" roars the insructor.

"Jaysus, boss, d'ya tink oim mad; da broider mite be cummin da udder way!!!"