Social Class style and views

iguana

AngryBadger wrote:

And when you think about it, which is going to be easier, using your money to maintain whatever standard of living you're accustomed to, or trying to use your income to elevate yourself to a higher standard which may involve a total change in lifestyle, both geographically, and socially? Most people are going to go with the former.

I think this sums it up. There is also the point that if you are struggling to elevate yourself, you have to sacrifice the things that everyone around you thinks are important. So while you are putting every spare penny into saving for a house in a better neighbourhood your kids don't get to have the latest games console like their friends. Or they are in Dunnes runners while their friends are in Nikes and it seems like you are the poorest people around.

And if you succeed in moving you are actually going to be the poorest people in the area and there is a risk that your new neighbours will look down on you because of where you came from. While at the same time many of your old neighbours won't want to know you because your actions have made them feel inadequate. Even once you have achieved your goal you still have to make so many sacrifices.

It's easier to ignore the fact that you can move on and instead try the big fish in the small pond approach.

Slutmonkey57b

I think it's all down to the fact that Irish people are tasteless crass greedy imbeciles actually.

In reply to the OP, the inverse of the skanger brigade is "porche owners". Especially Cayenne owners. **** the lot of them.

Cardinal

What exactly was the original posters point or question? Do other people have different views? Short answer: yes. You probably look like a posh git to scumbags. I don't think it's that important what scumbags think of what you're wearing anyway.

pvt. joker

i persoanlly LOVE to add columns to the grill of my GMC yukon denali

magpie

Irish people are tasteless crass greedy imbeciles

Seconded

It's easier to ignore the fact that you can move on and instead try the big fish in the small pond approach.

According to Alain de Botton its the only way out of status anxiety - be the richest people in sh1t street, not the poorest in rich street.

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

yes, yes yes, thats all well and good. Jolly nice
but are you an adult? over 18? over 21? yes? no?

As for my opinion, maybe i do judge but its tempered by the knowledge that people are just people, i dont go past someone's house thinking "oh my how crass, the occupants must be frightful" etc...

Well it isn't tempered with knowledge. You assumed what I said was in some way small minded and could only come from somebody who is not fully mature. You decided to judge my age on what you understood to be what I was asking.
As you had a small minded attitude when you were younger you assumed that was my view and that I must be young. I'm in my 30s and was asking about style associated with class or social demographics as it would be put now.

As I said I am aware of my views which stops me becoming a hypocrite like you who is unaware of predjudice.

pbsuxok1znja4r

I live in a town where you definitely see a little of both sides of the coin. There are a couple of council estates and there also many people living in very, very valuable houses, etc.

"Scumbag" isn't a class. But in my experience (and quite probably statistically) it is true that there are far more scumbags within the ranks of the 'lower' classes than anywhere else. Some other poster who commented on sovereign rings was called small-minded, but I have yet to actually meet anyone wearing soveriegn rings and a celtic jersey (and I've met a fair few) who didn't transpire to be a vulgar, small minded, uncivilised person.

With regard to not needing to act like one's peers - it's funny how the biggest self-professed individuals™ are always the ones who are bothered the most by other people's apparent lack of individuality.

ArphaRima

In reply to the OP, the inverse of the skanger brigade is "porche owners".

Damnit. Its one of my mandatory life ambitions to own a Porsche. I refuse to be labelled a wanker when I do. I made a promise to myself when I was 12. If I do it before thirty it's not a mid life crisis...

As for the arguments given; I agree with most sentiments. I think its best to find your own path. I have my own ambitions, they vary wildly from the usual. Yet they do not. I just tend to keep promises. Especially to myself.

L31mr0d

Listen I went to a an IT college which had its fair share of Apprentices (usually of the class scanger), with their burberry hats, and modded puntos and corsas, the goths/emo/jebroneys gang, and then the nerds/geeks of which I chose to reside.

Now each group felt proud in their individuality but also there unity as a whole, there was very little intermingling between the groups, and it seemed that certain areas of the college campus where known as hangouts for each group. But my point is that a goth is PROUD to be a goth, they know about the stigmatisms of being such but they are ok with it. Just as I had no problems being labeled a nerd/geek for studying and being into computers and games, the same with the scumbags, ergo each group believes it is better than the other, and can see the various benefits of that group which only become evident if you are so inclined to be such.

Everybody fits into a group or category, and each category when evaluated has a bad side. Its just we center a lot of attention on Scangers, because they are tilting the balance around Irish cities as the predominent group, and thus are causing the most problems. But can you honestly say our cities would be better places if we had predominently Goth, Skaters, Nerds, Geeks...etc.

Terry

i wear jeans and a t-shirt.
i buy my clothes from the local mens clothes shop because it's convienient. they know me and they know what i'm looking for when i walk in the door.
my friends went through various stages as we wee growing up. they did the tracksuit thing (although some of them actually did play sports), they did the designer label thing too. i still wore my jeans and t-shirt. i feel comfortable in those clothes and that is why i wear them.
growing up, some of my friends were scumbags. some of them did time for various things. some of those have completely turned their lives around and some haven't.
like scouser tommy above, i too come from a town where you see both sides of the coin. being a scumbag is not limited to people from poor areas.
you could argue that those from poorer areas have given up any aspirations of bettering their lives because society stigmatises them because of where they come from. i'm sure some of them have. one person above wrote how they felt out of place in their office while their peers work in factories. this is an example of that stigma.
conversely, you have those from wealthy backgrounds who turn to a life of scumbaggery in order to look hard. they usually end up being bailed out of trouble by daddy.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

Well it isn't tempered with knowledge. You assumed what I said was in some way small minded and could only come from somebody who is not fully mature. You decided to judge my age on what you understood to be what I was asking.
As you had a small minded attitude when you were younger you assumed that was my view and that I must be young. I'm in my 30s and was asking about style associated with class or social demographics as it would be put now.

As I said I am aware of my views which stops me becoming a hypocrite like you who is unaware of predjudice.

im not making assumptions i just find people in their late teens/early twenties are more interested in this clas of thing...ye usually realise its not that important as you get older and all grown up...usually

FillSpectre

I think you are missing the point completely. If you choose to look,talk,walk and gerenally appear to be a "skanger" people will treat you as such. It isn't about where you are from as some people think but what you appear to be like.

There are scumbags in every walk of life but to be clear social responisibilities in poorer areas is lacking. Simply walk around the areas and you can see it. I completely understand not having money so you don't paint the house but it is another thing to leave rubbish in the garden or never to mow the grass.

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

I think you are missing the point completely. If you choose to look,talk,walk and gerenally appear to be a "skanger" people will treat you as such. It isn't about where you are from as some people think but what you appear to be like.

There are scumbags in every walk of life but to be clear social responisibilities in poorer areas is lacking. Simply walk around the areas and you can see it. I completely understand not having money so you don't paint the house but it is another thing to leave rubbish in the garden or never to mow the grass.

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

The biggest criminals in this country wear suits, does that make me a criminal if I wear a suit.

To be honest, get a life FillSpectre/MorningStar. Live and let live. These people are doing you no harm.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

But there could be people out there who *gasp* couldnt give a flyin f*** what you think of them. Or the jones think of them, or anyone else who's sticking their noses out behind the net curtains think

FillSpectre

HelterSkelter wrote:

The biggest criminals in this country wear suits, does that make me a criminal if I wear a suit.

To be honest, get a life FillSpectre/MorningStar. Live and let live. These people are doing you no harm.

Maybe you should try that live and let live thing yourself instead of being as petty to keep calling me that name considering I told you it isn't me.

You can't live and let live and you are always at people I guess you are the true hipocrite

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

But there could be people out there who *gasp* couldnt give a flyin f*** what you think of them. Or the jones think of them, or anyone else who's sticking their noses out behind the net curtains think

Oh the brave Bambi is here!

Yes it did dawn on me that they could care less what people think about them hence I wanted to hear opinions not to hear opinions about asking the questions in the first place. Guess who's opinion I don't give a flyin f*** about and actually repeatedly told them? You for some reason think you are adding to this thread or had something of value to add. As you never understood what this was about you didn't.

kerrymaid

Bambi wrote:

im not making assumptions i just find people in their late teens/early twenties are more interested in this clas of thing...ye usually realise its not that important as you get older and all grown up...usually

Here, Here!
I totally agree with this - the older you get the less preoccupied u are with looking down on people, which is what some people like to do.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

Oh the brave Bambi is here!

Yes it did dawn on me that they could care less what people think about them hence I wanted to hear opinions not to hear opinions about asking the questions in the first place. Guess who's opinion I don't give a flyin f*** about and actually repeatedly told them? You for some reason think you are adding to this thread or had something of value to add. As you never understood what this was about you didn't.

Oh i understand this thread, im just trying to understand why it exists

either way you got your answer about 20 posts back from some other clever person...different horses/different courses, viva la difference etc.

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

Oh i understand this thread, im just trying to understand why it exists

either way you got your answer about 20 posts back from some other clever person...different horses/different courses, viva la difference etc.

Well by your answer and your belief it has been answered you missed the point completely. You see you don't know how to answer the question as you don't understand it.

You also don't understand what happens with age as class becomes a little more important when you have your own children too and you are looking out for their best interests.

You are a hypocrite plain and simple. You have nothing to add as your lack of comprehension shows, please don't bother posting in this thread there is no need.

Sleepy

For the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would you lay off. They guy asked a genuine question and tbh, one I'd be interested in learning the answer to myself. Goths choose to dress like goths and get associated with the negative aspects of that (seen to be a miserable, whiny teenager who wants the whole world to know how crap they feel about life). They can obviously live with that.

D4 heads choose to be ostentacious, all wearing as many expensive 'classy' labels as possible and get associated with all being materialistic, Ross O' Carroll Kelly wannabe twats or bitchy little drama queens who fly first class to England after a night at the Wesley. They can clearly live with this decision.

Skanger chooses to dress like skangers and hence get associated with the negative aspects of that (seen as joy-riding, thieving, ignorant, anti-social junkie). They can clearly live with that.

Now, the goth thing I can understand. If you don't care if you get stared at by kids and get seen as weird by 'normal' people and that's how you like to dress. Fair enough, goths aren't exactly a social group one associates with trouble (and some of the goth chicks are hot imho).

The second, while something I personally find abhorrant at the end of the day doesn't really tend to cause much real trouble (aside from being ignorant to people working in the services sector)

The third, like FillSpectre, I can't really understand. The negative connotations in society for dressing like a skanger are more focused on behavioural aspects of your personality. Choosing to dress like this will make people think you're a scumbag. This I don't understand. Why would you want anyone to think you're a joy-rider/junkie/thief whatever?

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

Maybe you should try that live and let live thing yourself instead of being as petty to keep calling me that name considering I told you it isn't me.

Ha ha, the dogs on the street know you are a MorningStar. Funny how MorningStar last logged on the same day as FillSpectre registered and both have the same opinions and style of writing, are interested in the same topics, etc etc.

FillSpectre

HelterSkelter wrote:

Ha ha, the dogs on the street know you are a MorningStar. Funny how MorningStar last logged on the same day as FillSpectre registered and both have the same opinions and style of writing, are interested in the same topics, etc etc.

I'd like to see this proof then post it up because you are wrong and you obviously are taking it out on me. I don't know what Morningstar did to you but it is obvious you are being petty. I have never done anything to you yet you seem to follow me around like a bad smell and troll lots of issues