Social Class style and views

FillSpectre

I was spurred by the TV thread about plasma screens. Friends of mine live all over the place and as you travel around you see different styles depending on how well off an area is. Now as I have been born and raised I have my own class which will obviously effect my own taste. There are some things I think are absolutely disgusting but I always wonder what the other side of the argument is and what they dislike about a different class styles

Things I dislike

1) Neo classical columns added on to a corpo house or any house that is not suitable.
2) Flowers and ornoments in every window. The tend to be dried flowers in really over the top vases.
3) Soverin rings
4) Modded cars with tons of plastic bit added and generally playing dance music

There is more but you get the idea. I wonder what the reverse is other than the likes of not having the above. They must dislike some "pouncy" haircut. Overall generally I think I dislike these general types of things becasue I associate them with bad behaviour or bad neighbourhoods as such I think it looks quite taty. Now I aspire to owning things I can't afford like most people but also try not to look like a nasty person so there must be a different view, right?

frobisher

I remember being out at a party and meeting all these rough inner city guys. Myself and my friend got chatting to them and once trust was established they actually asked why we dress the way we do because to them it looked so odd that they couldn't understand why we dressed as we did. The funny thing is that to us there was nothing particulally odd about how we were dressed and they were in burberry caps and thick gold chains. No matter what "type" of people you regard yourself as being from, others will always appear different.

Archeron

FillSpectre wrote:

1) Neo classical columns added on to a corpo house or any house that is not suitable.
QUOTE]


But Doric and Corinthian are okay though?

FillSpectre

frobisher wrote:

No matter what "type" of people you regard yourself as being from, others will always appear different.

I understand that but if the normal look around you is refered to by the vast majority as a "scumbag" look you have to be aware of how you look outside your immediate circle. AS a view I would want to distance my sell from looking like a "scumbag" but that does not seem to be the case with some social groups.

FillSpectre

Archeron wrote:

But Doric and Corinthian are okay though?

No generally the little Dallas look in some areas turns my stomach. It is all a bit like the massive amounts of money spent on comunion outfits being the peserve of the poor not the rich.

Black Swan

Gosh, right now I would settle for a modest little 2-bedroom cottage with an ocean view. Perhaps in Counties Cork or Kerry or Galway, away from any big city but near a village where I could shop for essentials. The ocean view is the most important thing to me, not what the house looks like, or what they call a "McMansion" in the States (a huge house on a small lot with no view of anything). So I guess I have to work hard and long for that view in quiet surroundings.

Not sure why so many people have to "keep up with the Jones's" as they say in the States where I am now visiting and working overseas. Their house has to be bigger than your house, their car or SUV more expensive than yours, their dog bigger than yours, and so forth. Self worth seems to be associated with material wealth for many people over here. How false. How plastic. How foolish.:rolleyes:

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

There is more but you get the idea. I wonder what the reverse is other than the likes of not having the above. They must dislike some "pouncy" haircut.

is "they" black people or something

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

is "they" black people or something

They not being people like me or similar and have taste as described. I have clearly stated this is social class issue and that I belong to a social class. Class is not clearly designated thing.

magpie

Any kind of obvious display of wealth is vulgar and crass in the extreme. Unfortunately most Irish people, regardless of background, don't seem to have realised this.

HelterSkelter

I think most people want to fit in with the people they hang around with (I'm talking mostly about under 18's here). If all your mates are wearing tracksuits you tend to do the same. Also if everyone in your area dresses in a certain way then it will seem to you that that is the normal way to dress. Why would you want to dress in an 'alien' way like someone from another neighbourhood/social class whom you have absolutley nothing in common with.

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

I understand that but if the normal look around you is refered to by the vast majority as a "scumbag" look you have to be aware of how you look outside your immediate circle. AS a view I would want to distance my sell from looking like a "scumbag" but that does not seem to be the case with some social groups.

I think you are talking about the track suit/nike air max/burberry types, right? Well I hung around with people like that when I was young, I even wore track suits for a while but then got some fashion sense!! The thing is that the people I hung around with didn't think that type of fashion was considered scumbag. It was what all their friends wore and was the norm. The majority of them were not scumbags either. There were scumbags in the area who dressed the same but they were in the minority.

Funsterdelux

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Gosh, right now I would settle for a modest little 2-bedroom cottage with an ocean view. Perhaps in Counties Cork or Kerry or Galway, away from any big city but near a village where I could shop for essentials. The ocean view is the most important thing to me, not what the house looks like, or what they call a "McMansion" in the States (a huge house on a small lot with no view of anything). So I guess I have to work hard and long for that view in quiet surroundings.

Not sure why so many people have to "keep up with the Jones's" as they say in the States where I am now visiting and working overseas. Their house has to be bigger than your house, their car or SUV more expensive than yours, their dog bigger than yours, and so forth. Self worth seems to be associated with material wealth for many people over here. How false. How plastic. How foolish.:rolleyes:

Im with you on this one Blue, Im from a poor enough backround in the country, well when we were growning up anywho.

But what pisses me off is that when people start earning desent money, it seems to be expected of them to spend it on stuff they does not need.
In the country in regards to one off housing, people/architects dont seem to understand that red-brick and stone house dont always belong in the country, fair enough stone, but even they were usually either plastered/rendered or whitewashed.

Driving their kids to school when they could walk or cycle the list goes on, its just all adding to the over all problem of We want to be like the Americans, or even worse probably.

meditraitor

FillSpectre wrote:

3) Soverin rings

Sure sign of scumbag ( along with a Celtic jersey)

Morlar

meditraitor wrote:

Sure sign of scumbag ( along with a Celtic jersey)

Wow. talk about small minded.

Black Swan

Funsterdelux wrote:

But what pisses me off is that when people start earning desent money, it seems to be expected of them to spend it on stuff they does not need.

Hi Funsterdelux!
Agree. I have a pretty good income, but socking away every penny I can. Don't go out too often blowing money on restaurants or pubs like others. Cook a lot at my flat. Looking for a second hand car with good gas mileage and low maintenance. Go to free WiFi hotspots to write these posts to boards. Save, save, save!

Lust4Life

Posted by Blue_Lagoon:
I was spurred by the TV thread about plasma screens. Friends of mine live all over the place and as you travel around you see different styles depending on how well off an area is. Now as I have been born and raised I have my own class which will obviously effect my own taste. There are some things I think are absolutely disgusting but I always wonder what the other side of the argument is and what they dislike about a different class styles

It is very interesting here in the states.
A co-worker was talking to me about another coworker the other day and said "Yes, but she lives from paycheck to pay check." This woman who said that always looks like she hasn't shopped for new clothes since 1990! I wonder what class she feels she fits into????

I grew up in a nice house, but my folks were far from rich.
And I think this causes me to feel that I have bluffed my way in to the Professional Office Workplace Environment while my siblings work in factories.
Even though I have the skills and knowledge, I don't quite fit in with most of the office folk. They're always trying to keep up with the Joneses and I don't have the same interests.

L4L

FillSpectre

HelterSkelter wrote:

I think you are talking about the track suit/nike air max/burberry types, right? Well I hung around with people like that when I was young, I even wore track suits for a while but then got some fashion sense!! The thing is that the people I hung around with didn't think that type of fashion was considered scumbag. It was what all their friends wore and was the norm. The majority of them were not scumbags either. There were scumbags in the area who dressed the same but they were in the minority.

Yes that is the type.

I went to school in a pretty rough school and everybody who dressed like that was fully aware many people consider it the look of scumbag. I guess a 10 year old might not know but by 16 you know. If it is just not considered they must have a view on what does not consist of their style.

I guess they could just be fitting in but adult and houses are part of this too. There are other house styles I have opinions on too. THere is a a particular style connected to the lower social classes. Adults should be a little beyond peer presure

meditraitor

Morlar wrote:

Wow. talk about small minded.

Sure am.... hooora to you for your insight

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

THere is a a particular style connected to the lower social classes. Adults should be a little beyond peer presure

And you're an adult? Or are you the queen of england? :rolleyes:

Morlar

meditraitor wrote:

Sure am.... hooora to you for your insight

Your welcome !

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

Yes that is the type.

I went to school in a pretty rough school and everybody who dressed like that was fully aware many people consider it the look of scumbag. I guess a 10 year old might not know but by 16 you know. If it is just not considered they must have a view on what does not consist of their style.

I guess they could just be fitting in but adult and houses are part of this too. There are other house styles I have opinions on too. THere is a a particular style connected to the lower social classes. Adults should be a little beyond peer presure

Well when you talk about people doing up their houses in a particular way, I think it is just down to people who can never afford a bug luxurious house so they just try to make the best of what they got. Similar to a young guy who would love a Ferrari. Not in his wildest dreams will he ever get one so he does up his Ford Fiesta as best he can to make it look like a sports car. Now you may think his car looks stupid but so what, different strokes for different folks.

Lust4Life

But it also depends on the person's interest.
Me, I really enjoy the challenge of refinishing old furniture and making it look new again. I wouldn't want new furnishings (well, I could use a new couch) since it is so much fun doing this!
As long as I earn enough money to buy supplies, I'm happy.

L4L

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

And you're an adult? Or are you the queen of england? :rolleyes:

Oh good you got me again becasue I am sure you have no bias:rolleyes:

Cop on and stop looking for a way to accuse me of being some kind of bigot. You want to stick your head in the sand and beleive there are no differences in class go ahead.

I am aware of what I am and how it colours my views. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I treat all people equally, I don't. I judge people on their actions, mannerisms, apperance and speech. Instead of just criticsing me why don't you explain your world view. Right now I judge you as a freak who won't express themself but criticises people.

FillSpectre

HelterSkelter wrote:

Well when you talk about people doing up their houses in a particular way, I think it is just down to people who can never afford a bug luxurious house so they just try to make the best of what they got. Similar to a young guy who would love a Ferrari. Not in his wildest dreams will he ever get one so he does up his Ford Fiesta as best he can to make it look like a sports car. Now you may think his car looks stupid but so what, different strokes for different folks.

What they can afford isn't really the issue either as they spend lots of money on really styled things. Modded cars costing a fortune to do and are expensive themselves.

It isn't about making do but actually expensive things that are of a particular style. Thoses neo classical column don't come cheap or does wall cladding.

It would be really hard not to notice media commenting on such looks and styles and their association with bad taste and a social demographic. DO they simply not notice?

HelterSkelter

They probably don't give a fúck as they have better things to comment on. I don't really get what your problem is, as I said, different strokes for different folks.

whiskeyman

HelterSkelter wrote:

The majority of them were not scumbags either. There were scumbags in the area who dressed the same but they were in the minority.

A key point, that can be flipped for all the D4 'dube' wearing brigade. They may all dress the same, but it's only a minority that are "scumbags".
A scumbag doesn't just wear tracksuits and soverign rings. I think we all saw that after the Annabels case, and of that librarian that was assulted on Grafton Street by those tennis players.

simu

People show their allegiance to or aspiration to belonging to certain groups in society by dressing or decorating a certain way (although it's not always 100% conscious). That's hardly new, is it?

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

Oh good you got me again becasue I am sure you have no bias:rolleyes:

Cop on and stop looking for a way to accuse me of being some kind of bigot. You want to stick your head in the sand and beleive there are no differences in class go ahead.

I am aware of what I am and how it colours my views. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I treat all people equally, I don't. I judge people on their actions, mannerisms, apperance and speech. Instead of just criticsing me why don't you explain your world view. Right now I judge you as a freak who won't express themself but criticises people.

yes, yes yes, thats all well and good. Jolly nice
but are you an adult? over 18? over 21? yes? no?


As for my opinion, maybe i do judge but its tempered by the knowledge that people are just people, i dont go past someone's house thinking "oh my how crass, the occupants must be frightful" i dont even snigger when lank haired, jacket wearing, bonnie prince billy listening sneachta o faoileachan types come within earshot. Im good like that. but im a grown up now

Privillege might exist in this country but class only manifests itself in some peoples attitudes

AngryBadger

You're assuming in all this that people look at what money they have and then cogitate on how best they can spend that money to achieve their goals. most people don't actually do that.

Some people will look at their disposable income vs. what they want, and try to make the best spending choices accordingly. But most people won't think that far ahead. Most of the time we'll spend our money fairly impulsively, we won't always take the slow and steady option for self-improvement. And obviously, barring massive individuality, (which, let's be honest, most people don't have), we're going to mimic our peers.

Kids always want whatever the other kids have, this doesn't change with age. in some cases it's because far away hills are greener, in some cases it's because we genuinely want what the other person has, in most cases it's just a case of maintaining the status quo in our social circles.

And when you think about it, which is going to be easier, using your money to maintain whatever standard of living you're accustomed to, or trying to use your income to elevate yourself to a higher standard which may involve a total change in lifestyle, both geographically, and socially? Most people are going to go with the former.

Brian Capture

Morlar wrote:

Wow. talk about small minded.

I don't support the IRA.

Brian Capture

whiskeyman wrote:

A key point, that can be flipped for all the D4 'dube' wearing brigade. They may all dress the same, but it's only a minority that are "scumbags".
A scumbag doesn't just wear tracksuits and soverign rings. I think we all saw that after the Annabels case, and of that librarian that was assulted on Grafton Street by those tennis players.

The only reason those cases got so much coverage was the fact that the perpetrators were well-off.

They are the exception rather than the rule and you are clutching at straws by bringing them up.

There was a guy who got the sh*t kicked out of him in Blanchardstown for berating a gang of skangers for trying to steal his car. He was in a coma for six weeks and there was very little media attention.

iguana

AngryBadger wrote:

And when you think about it, which is going to be easier, using your money to maintain whatever standard of living you're accustomed to, or trying to use your income to elevate yourself to a higher standard which may involve a total change in lifestyle, both geographically, and socially? Most people are going to go with the former.

I think this sums it up. There is also the point that if you are struggling to elevate yourself, you have to sacrifice the things that everyone around you thinks are important. So while you are putting every spare penny into saving for a house in a better neighbourhood your kids don't get to have the latest games console like their friends. Or they are in Dunnes runners while their friends are in Nikes and it seems like you are the poorest people around.

And if you succeed in moving you are actually going to be the poorest people in the area and there is a risk that your new neighbours will look down on you because of where you came from. While at the same time many of your old neighbours won't want to know you because your actions have made them feel inadequate. Even once you have achieved your goal you still have to make so many sacrifices.

It's easier to ignore the fact that you can move on and instead try the big fish in the small pond approach.

Slutmonkey57b

I think it's all down to the fact that Irish people are tasteless crass greedy imbeciles actually.

In reply to the OP, the inverse of the skanger brigade is "porche owners". Especially Cayenne owners. **** the lot of them.

Cardinal

What exactly was the original posters point or question? Do other people have different views? Short answer: yes. You probably look like a posh git to scumbags. I don't think it's that important what scumbags think of what you're wearing anyway.

pvt. joker

i persoanlly LOVE to add columns to the grill of my GMC yukon denali

magpie

Irish people are tasteless crass greedy imbeciles

Seconded

It's easier to ignore the fact that you can move on and instead try the big fish in the small pond approach.

According to Alain de Botton its the only way out of status anxiety - be the richest people in sh1t street, not the poorest in rich street.

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

yes, yes yes, thats all well and good. Jolly nice
but are you an adult? over 18? over 21? yes? no?

As for my opinion, maybe i do judge but its tempered by the knowledge that people are just people, i dont go past someone's house thinking "oh my how crass, the occupants must be frightful" etc...

Well it isn't tempered with knowledge. You assumed what I said was in some way small minded and could only come from somebody who is not fully mature. You decided to judge my age on what you understood to be what I was asking.
As you had a small minded attitude when you were younger you assumed that was my view and that I must be young. I'm in my 30s and was asking about style associated with class or social demographics as it would be put now.

As I said I am aware of my views which stops me becoming a hypocrite like you who is unaware of predjudice.

pbsuxok1znja4r

I live in a town where you definitely see a little of both sides of the coin. There are a couple of council estates and there also many people living in very, very valuable houses, etc.

"Scumbag" isn't a class. But in my experience (and quite probably statistically) it is true that there are far more scumbags within the ranks of the 'lower' classes than anywhere else. Some other poster who commented on sovereign rings was called small-minded, but I have yet to actually meet anyone wearing soveriegn rings and a celtic jersey (and I've met a fair few) who didn't transpire to be a vulgar, small minded, uncivilised person.

With regard to not needing to act like one's peers - it's funny how the biggest self-professed individuals™ are always the ones who are bothered the most by other people's apparent lack of individuality.

ArphaRima

In reply to the OP, the inverse of the skanger brigade is "porche owners".

Damnit. Its one of my mandatory life ambitions to own a Porsche. I refuse to be labelled a wanker when I do. I made a promise to myself when I was 12. If I do it before thirty it's not a mid life crisis...

As for the arguments given; I agree with most sentiments. I think its best to find your own path. I have my own ambitions, they vary wildly from the usual. Yet they do not. I just tend to keep promises. Especially to myself.

L31mr0d

Listen I went to a an IT college which had its fair share of Apprentices (usually of the class scanger), with their burberry hats, and modded puntos and corsas, the goths/emo/jebroneys gang, and then the nerds/geeks of which I chose to reside.

Now each group felt proud in their individuality but also there unity as a whole, there was very little intermingling between the groups, and it seemed that certain areas of the college campus where known as hangouts for each group. But my point is that a goth is PROUD to be a goth, they know about the stigmatisms of being such but they are ok with it. Just as I had no problems being labeled a nerd/geek for studying and being into computers and games, the same with the scumbags, ergo each group believes it is better than the other, and can see the various benefits of that group which only become evident if you are so inclined to be such.

Everybody fits into a group or category, and each category when evaluated has a bad side. Its just we center a lot of attention on Scangers, because they are tilting the balance around Irish cities as the predominent group, and thus are causing the most problems. But can you honestly say our cities would be better places if we had predominently Goth, Skaters, Nerds, Geeks...etc.

Terry

i wear jeans and a t-shirt.
i buy my clothes from the local mens clothes shop because it's convienient. they know me and they know what i'm looking for when i walk in the door.
my friends went through various stages as we wee growing up. they did the tracksuit thing (although some of them actually did play sports), they did the designer label thing too. i still wore my jeans and t-shirt. i feel comfortable in those clothes and that is why i wear them.
growing up, some of my friends were scumbags. some of them did time for various things. some of those have completely turned their lives around and some haven't.
like scouser tommy above, i too come from a town where you see both sides of the coin. being a scumbag is not limited to people from poor areas.
you could argue that those from poorer areas have given up any aspirations of bettering their lives because society stigmatises them because of where they come from. i'm sure some of them have. one person above wrote how they felt out of place in their office while their peers work in factories. this is an example of that stigma.
conversely, you have those from wealthy backgrounds who turn to a life of scumbaggery in order to look hard. they usually end up being bailed out of trouble by daddy.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

Well it isn't tempered with knowledge. You assumed what I said was in some way small minded and could only come from somebody who is not fully mature. You decided to judge my age on what you understood to be what I was asking.
As you had a small minded attitude when you were younger you assumed that was my view and that I must be young. I'm in my 30s and was asking about style associated with class or social demographics as it would be put now.

As I said I am aware of my views which stops me becoming a hypocrite like you who is unaware of predjudice.

im not making assumptions i just find people in their late teens/early twenties are more interested in this clas of thing...ye usually realise its not that important as you get older and all grown up...usually

FillSpectre

I think you are missing the point completely. If you choose to look,talk,walk and gerenally appear to be a "skanger" people will treat you as such. It isn't about where you are from as some people think but what you appear to be like.

There are scumbags in every walk of life but to be clear social responisibilities in poorer areas is lacking. Simply walk around the areas and you can see it. I completely understand not having money so you don't paint the house but it is another thing to leave rubbish in the garden or never to mow the grass.

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

I think you are missing the point completely. If you choose to look,talk,walk and gerenally appear to be a "skanger" people will treat you as such. It isn't about where you are from as some people think but what you appear to be like.

There are scumbags in every walk of life but to be clear social responisibilities in poorer areas is lacking. Simply walk around the areas and you can see it. I completely understand not having money so you don't paint the house but it is another thing to leave rubbish in the garden or never to mow the grass.

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

The biggest criminals in this country wear suits, does that make me a criminal if I wear a suit.

To be honest, get a life FillSpectre/MorningStar. Live and let live. These people are doing you no harm.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

The thread was about style on not poverty. What I was wondering was how people could decide to go for a style that is a running joke. Do you actually think anybody past the age of 14 does not realise their clothes,style and how they represent themselves is thought of baddly. It isn't a class thing but a lack of respect for ones self to choose to dress in the same manner as junkie or criminal would dress like.

But there could be people out there who *gasp* couldnt give a flyin f*** what you think of them. Or the jones think of them, or anyone else who's sticking their noses out behind the net curtains think

FillSpectre

HelterSkelter wrote:

The biggest criminals in this country wear suits, does that make me a criminal if I wear a suit.

To be honest, get a life FillSpectre/MorningStar. Live and let live. These people are doing you no harm.

Maybe you should try that live and let live thing yourself instead of being as petty to keep calling me that name considering I told you it isn't me.

You can't live and let live and you are always at people I guess you are the true hipocrite

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

But there could be people out there who *gasp* couldnt give a flyin f*** what you think of them. Or the jones think of them, or anyone else who's sticking their noses out behind the net curtains think

Oh the brave Bambi is here!

Yes it did dawn on me that they could care less what people think about them hence I wanted to hear opinions not to hear opinions about asking the questions in the first place. Guess who's opinion I don't give a flyin f*** about and actually repeatedly told them? You for some reason think you are adding to this thread or had something of value to add. As you never understood what this was about you didn't.

kerrymaid

Bambi wrote:

im not making assumptions i just find people in their late teens/early twenties are more interested in this clas of thing...ye usually realise its not that important as you get older and all grown up...usually

Here, Here!
I totally agree with this - the older you get the less preoccupied u are with looking down on people, which is what some people like to do.

Dyr

FillSpectre wrote:

Oh the brave Bambi is here!

Yes it did dawn on me that they could care less what people think about them hence I wanted to hear opinions not to hear opinions about asking the questions in the first place. Guess who's opinion I don't give a flyin f*** about and actually repeatedly told them? You for some reason think you are adding to this thread or had something of value to add. As you never understood what this was about you didn't.

Oh i understand this thread, im just trying to understand why it exists

either way you got your answer about 20 posts back from some other clever person...different horses/different courses, viva la difference etc.

FillSpectre

Bambi wrote:

Oh i understand this thread, im just trying to understand why it exists

either way you got your answer about 20 posts back from some other clever person...different horses/different courses, viva la difference etc.

Well by your answer and your belief it has been answered you missed the point completely. You see you don't know how to answer the question as you don't understand it.

You also don't understand what happens with age as class becomes a little more important when you have your own children too and you are looking out for their best interests.

You are a hypocrite plain and simple. You have nothing to add as your lack of comprehension shows, please don't bother posting in this thread there is no need.

Sleepy

For the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would you lay off. They guy asked a genuine question and tbh, one I'd be interested in learning the answer to myself. Goths choose to dress like goths and get associated with the negative aspects of that (seen to be a miserable, whiny teenager who wants the whole world to know how crap they feel about life). They can obviously live with that.

D4 heads choose to be ostentacious, all wearing as many expensive 'classy' labels as possible and get associated with all being materialistic, Ross O' Carroll Kelly wannabe twats or bitchy little drama queens who fly first class to England after a night at the Wesley. They can clearly live with this decision.

Skanger chooses to dress like skangers and hence get associated with the negative aspects of that (seen as joy-riding, thieving, ignorant, anti-social junkie). They can clearly live with that.

Now, the goth thing I can understand. If you don't care if you get stared at by kids and get seen as weird by 'normal' people and that's how you like to dress. Fair enough, goths aren't exactly a social group one associates with trouble (and some of the goth chicks are hot imho).

The second, while something I personally find abhorrant at the end of the day doesn't really tend to cause much real trouble (aside from being ignorant to people working in the services sector)

The third, like FillSpectre, I can't really understand. The negative connotations in society for dressing like a skanger are more focused on behavioural aspects of your personality. Choosing to dress like this will make people think you're a scumbag. This I don't understand. Why would you want anyone to think you're a joy-rider/junkie/thief whatever?