Am I Racist?

The Sweeper

The Corinthian wrote:

When I moved over and first went to school here, I have little or no English.

Still don't, apparently.

Jackie laughlin

Corinthian, Welcome!

Minesajackdaniels, That was neither funny nor a sentence.


Yes, Irishness has become broad since about the 80s. The whole of the nation has been accepted. We are no longer defined merely as Gaelic, rural, nationalist and Catholic. Nevertheless, a newcomer would see a coherent culture and a strong vibrant one at that. All I'm saying is that integration especially in Ireland will eliminate multiculturalism. To be blunt, the new Irish may be black or Islamic but if they attend integrated schools and mix with us, they'll be saying "Jaysus" in no time!

The Corinthian

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Corinthian, Welcome!

That’s so belated as to be utterly condescending.

Minesajackdaniels, That was neither funny nor a sentence.

Actually I thought it was funny.

Yes, Irishness has become broad since about the 80s. The whole of the nation has been accepted. We are no longer defined merely as Gaelic, rural, nationalist and Catholic. Nevertheless, a newcomer would see a coherent culture and a strong vibrant one at that. All I'm saying is that integration especially in Ireland will eliminate multiculturalism. To be blunt, the new Irish may be black or Islamic but if they attend integrated schools and mix with us, they'll be saying "Jaysus" in no time!

I think the subtext of the point I made is that the nature mixes occurring are such that we will not see integration taking place.

Jackie laughlin

Corinthian,
May I suggest that you take people at face value rather than trying to find fault.

I don't understand your last sentence. Would you oblige by rephrasing.

Dirk Gently

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Corinthian,
May I suggest that you take people at face value rather than trying to find fault.

Suggesting the Corinthian changes his attitude, good luck with that one Jackie. for everything else there's mastercard.

Jackie laughlin wrote:

I don't understand your last sentence. Would you oblige by rephrasing.

I think what he's saying in the last point is that because there are sufficiently large sub groups of culturally compatible people in the school, it will only serve to discourage integration as the Nigerian and Polish students have a comfort zone within themselves in which they can communicate with each other without having their hand forced to bond and communicate with the Irish kiddies.

The Corinthian

Jackie laughlin wrote:

May I suggest that you take people at face value rather than trying to find fault.

As you did with Minesajackdaniels? Pot. Kettle. Black.

clown bag wrote:

Suggesting the Corinthian changes his attitude, good luck with that one Jackie. for everything else there's mastercard.

You wound me...

Jackie laughlin

Clown Bag,
Thanks. Yes, that would prevent integration. It should be resisted. This goes to the root of this thread. A child should not have to attend a school in which a foreign culture dominates. Immigrants should be accepted into Irish schools and integrated.

Jackie laughlin

I did take his comment at face value.

The Corinthian

Jackie laughlin wrote:

I did take his comment at face value.

Very simplistically, then found fault. Go figure.

Zombrex

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Clown Bag,
Thanks. Yes, that would prevent integration. It should be resisted. This goes to the root of this thread. A child should not have to attend a school in which a foreign culture dominates. Immigrants should be accepted into Irish schools and integrated.

I find it a little hard to believe that all the Nigeria students speak the same non-English language, and they certainly don't speek Polish. There are over 200 known languages in Nigeria, and the offical language is English. I would imagine that they only way they are going to communicate with each other is through English, so that takes care of that "problem".

The Polish issue is different but then, there are a lot less Polish kids.

Miss Fluff

I attended an international school in the Middle East as a kid and it real is quite astounding how quickly kids will pick up another language. As long as all the children are encouraged to integrate these kids should be speaking English to the same level within a matter of a few weeks. They are only 4 so language proficiency wouldn't be at hugely advanced levels anyway. To answer your question, no, you are not being racist and I can understand your concerns but with proper guidance and teaching this hopefully will not be an issue for you or for your little girl.

Tallspoon wrote:

I approached the principal about my concerns and she agreed that it was not a good balance of backgrounds in the class but another school in the town has been rejecting all immigrant children so they have no choice but to accept them.?

On what grounds did the neighbouring school reject immigrant kids?

eth0_

mike65 wrote:

If those demanding kids were freckly, red haired and called Gavin you'd still think the same thing I expect.

Mike.

Bullsh*t. His issue is that the teacher will have to spend a lot more time on the children who don't speak English. In this supposed affulent country, we should have lots of classroom assistants who can work with these children on improving their English, so that the rest of the children don't lose out on 'normal' teaching time.

eth0_

Wicknight wrote:

The Polish issue is different but then, there are a lot less Polish kids.

iirc the Poles make up the largest immigrant group in Ireland...

Karl Hungus

eth0_ wrote:

iirc the Poles make up the largest immigrant group in Ireland...

True, they may be the largest immigrant group, but that doesn't account for how fast the Nigerians are reproducing.

Tha Gopher

I find the Nigerian one a bit odd. The vast majority of them in Ireland speak English amongst themselves and to their kids, being a former British colony, so surely most of their children are already fluent?

Though theres certain schools round here that seem to have alot more immigrant kids than the actual area the school is meant to serve. I know one school in my area that, judging by the crowds I see when the kids are taken on their nature walks or whathaveya, is 40-50% black, but the 25-30 year old corpo estate that the school serves is at most 5% black, its still nearly all Irish. I think for some reason some local authorities have a policy of putting them altogether in the one school, regardless of where they live.

Zombrex

eth0_ wrote:

iirc the Poles make up the largest immigrant group in Ireland...

True, but then there are only 5 Polish kids in the class, which the OP claim don't speak a word of English. THat isn't too bad out of a class of 25

The Corinthian

Tha Gopher wrote:

I find the Nigerian one a bit odd. The vast majority of them in Ireland speak English amongst themselves and to their kids, being a former British colony, so surely most of their children are already fluent?

Depends on the demographics of the Nigerians in Ireland as they may be coming from a limited number of areas in Nigeria and thus speak the same local languages. Either way, English would still not be the first language.

I think for some reason some local authorities have a policy of putting them altogether in the one school, regardless of where they live.

It may also be possible that they are being put together by choice. Ether way it’s a terrible policy IMHO.

Wicknight wrote:

True, but then there are only 5 Polish kids in the class, which the OP claim don't speak a word of English. THat isn't too bad out of a class of 25

20% is a fair sized ghetto.

Zombrex

The Corinthian wrote:

20% is a fair sized ghetto.

?

Do you really think 5 kids who speak polish and (we assume) not a work of English is going to take up so much of the teachers time that the OPs kid and the rest of the children are going to seriously loose out on an education?

dbnavan

I dont think it is racist, maybe a bit niave, considering most Nigerians speak english, very well, I work in a school where some of the students are Nigerian and they seem to get on OK, the school cant refuse applicatants on nationality, at the end of the day its up to you to choose the best place that will educate your child, so no its not racism.

However a generalisation that ....."I could see that some of the Africans were being disruptive." is imo, all 4 year olds are disruptive when piled into a room together, I would be more concerned on how the school intends to manage the language difficulties before pulling the child from the school.

nikolaitr

I think he should worry only for his daughter and not whether he is a racist. In 20 years time, only he will answer for his actions, and he doesn't want to be thinking to himself I made a mistake because I was worried about being branded a racist. If he is asking if he is a racist, he is hardly one then,right?

Zombrex

nikolaitr wrote:

If he is asking if he is a racist, he is hardly one then,right?

Actually it is the other way around, people tend to seek reassurence when they have done something they actually feel is wrong. He wants to be reassured he isn't a racist, which probably deep down he is feeling slightly guilty about the thoughts he was having. If he himself was certain it wasn't racist he wouldn't need to ask an internet forum. Thats not to say what he is thinking is racist, but the idea that if you ask if you are racist means you aren't is not true.