Blurb about 3G cards in US vs EU

uncle_sam_ie

Urban Weigl wrote:

cormie, presumably Vodafone in Spain will launch a similar service. However, forget it, because the problem is that you usually have to sign a 12 month (sometimes up to 24 months) contract. Edit: I see they offer 3-month contract option in Germany, but only if you pay for the equipment, which is not cheap (299 euros).

Don't forget the €50 might include a home phone service. Vodafone already offer that in Germany, see here:
http://www.vodafone.de/privat/tarife_und_vertraege/76792.html

Basically it's a box with a 3G card in it, which does wifi, print server, has a phone jack to plug in your existing phone. It's essentially a complete replacement for your landline. They're advertising broadband speeds of up to 1.8 MBit.

Urban Weigl,
Your a Mac guy right? I'm going to the US in a few weeks and will be getting a Mac Book pro. Do you think the data cards that Vodafone will have will be available in the new Expresscard/34 format?

Sponge Bob

3G in the US of A is incompatible with 3G in Europe so make sure it ain't builted into the MAC which is what is proposed with certain 3G compatible laptops.

3G data also works better over there .....although 2G and roaming works way better over here.

Urban Weigl

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

Urban Weigl,
Your a Mac guy right? I'm going to the US in a few weeks and will be getting a Mac Book pro. Do you think the data cards that Vodafone will have will be available in the new Expresscard/34 format?

All I can tell you is that cards in that format have started to become available, and some mobile phone companies already sell them AFAIK. It's also a Sure Thing™ that Vodafone will offer them, the question is when. And I'm afraid I don't know. Your best bet is to ask them directly.

Express cards are not a Mac-thing, by the way. It's true that Apple tends to be one of the first computer companies to adopt new technology, and drop old technology (the floppy disk drive comes to mind, I believe Apple were the first to use "modern" 3.5" floppy drives, and also the first to drop them), but everything will eventually go to express cards. They are faster by a gigantic margin, so much so that you can even get SATA cards, etc, running at gigabit speeds and faster!

Edit: Another option is to get a 3G router with a cardbus slot, such as this one: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/dlink-wireless-3g-router-174736.php

watty

Apricot was maybe the first x86 DOS machine to have 3.5 floppy. In those days (1984?) an Apple was a joke.

Urban Weigl

watty wrote:

Apricot was maybe the first x86 DOS machine to have 3.5 floppy. In those days (1984?) an Apple was a joke.

Please keep it on topic, or take it to the correct forum. Thanks.

uncle_sam_ie

Urban Weigl wrote:

All I can tell you is that cards in that format have started to become available, and some mobile phone companies already sell them AFAIK. It's also a Sure Thing™ that Vodafone will offer them, the question is when. And I'm afraid I don't know. Your best bet is to ask them directly.

Express cards are not a Mac-thing, by the way. It's true that Apple tends to be one of the first computer companies to adopt new technology, and drop old technology (the floppy disk drive comes to mind, I believe Apple were the first to use "modern" 3.5" floppy drives, and also the first to drop them), but everything will eventually go to express cards. They are faster by a gigantic margin, so much so that you can even get SATA cards, etc, running at gigabit speeds and faster!

Edit: Another option is to get a 3G router with a cardbus slot, such as this one: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/dlink-wireless-3g-router-174736.php

Thanks Urban Weigl,
The Macbook Pro having that Expresscard/34 slot is one reason I'm going for it instead of the Macbook. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a US only thing. Hopefully I wont have a problem getting it to work with vodafone.

cgarvey

Moved from this thread in IoffL

Urban Weigl

http://www.vodafone.ie/soho/mailonthemove/laptopconnectivity/3grouter/index.jsp

It seems like Vodafone does either directly or indirectly sell the Linksys 3G router. Anybody happen to be "in the know" about its price?

Edit: From the T&C's, it seems like they won't terminate your contract if you try to use VoIP. However, if they degrade the voice quality, or prevent it from working, you'll have no recourse. I know a friend on T-Mobile who uses Skype, even though the T&C's forbid it, and he laughed when I suggested that they might terminate people's contracts for using Skype: "They'd be mad if they did that".

Use of VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) is not permitted within the Unlimited Data tariff offer and Vodafone reserves the right to impose technological or other constraints on this or related types of application.

cgarvey

I rang Vodafone, but the "Data Team" weren't answering their phone, but Tech Support were, and they said officially the new Macbooks don't support the Mobile Connect card, but unofficially it will work. The CSR thought that meant if you knew what you were doing, it'd work fine. If only she knew what she was doing.

Does anyone know if the Mobile Connect card is 16bit or 32bit? I see some USB/PCMCIA adapters, but only 16bit ones.

I'll try ringing Vodafone again, but a USB modem would be a nice workaround in the meantime!

I only realised that the MacBook (not Pro) didn't have an ExpressCard slot after Uncle Sam's post.. I'm not a happy camper.

.cg

cgarvey

Found a 32bit adapter, but they aint cheap.

Patrickof

The Linksys 3G router is going for €173 ex VAT on expansys.ie

Not too sure if any shops have them though - but I bet they will very shortly

eircomtribunal

Official Linksys page about the router, with product manual and other PDF downloads: http://www-uk.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=UK%2FLayout&cid=1133203163100&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

BendiBus

I'm not too good on these sort of things. What would I need to do to use this service with, say, a Dell Axim PDA?

I'd very much like to be permanently connected to the Internet without having to lug my lappie around everywhere!

cgarvey

They don't oficially support anything other than CardBus/PCMCIA/PC-Card, so unless you use the above mentioned integrated wireless router, or you can source your own Compact Flash 3G card, I'm guessing you'll be out of luck. Such CompactFlash cards do exist, I dunno if Vodafone support them though.

.cg

BendiBus

Mobile company introduces wireless broadband service that's not useable by mobile devices

Urban Weigl

BendiBus wrote:

Mobile company introduces wireless broadband service that's not useable by mobile devices

"Doesn't support them" just means that if you don't know how to install the software, or use the card, they won't provide you with customer support! You'll have to figure it out yourself, but it will work fine on the Vodafone network. Just like if you use a mobile phone that wasn't provided by Vodafone. They won't be able to "support" it, but it will still work.

As far as the price, it is definitely 49.00 a month, with no extra charges on top of that, and no requirement to have another Vodafone account. I would like to know if anybody here already uses the Vodafone integrated router (Linksys/Cisco branded), and if so, is it any good?

Blaster99

BendiBus wrote:

I'm not too good on these sort of things. What would I need to do to use this service with, say, a Dell Axim PDA?

I'd very much like to be permanently connected to the Internet without having to lug my lappie around everywhere!

If your Axim supports Bluetooth and you mobile phone supports Bluetooth and assuming this 3G service can be applied to a normal SIM, you can use your phone as a modem.

cgarvey

You won't get the unlimited data plan using it that way though, according to Vodafone (which may be fact or fiction, as we've seen earlier). It is commonplace though across other Vodafones & GSM/3G providers.

.cg

Urban Weigl

You can buy the Linksys Wireless/G router for 3G/UMTS broadband from Elara here (Vodafone features it on their web site, but their stores don't seem to have it in stock): http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1121637

It's not exactly cheap at €179, so I'm still looking for a better source. Remember you'll still need the Vodafone 3G Mobile Connect card, which is €99 with a 12-month contract. If you've a new laptop from Dell or Apple, which has the newer ExpressCard slot, Vodafone tell me that it's possible to source a USB or Firewire PCMCIA adapter. They are currently testing an ExpressCard-based 3G Data Connect card, but this won't be available for some time.

uncle_sam_ie

Will this work. http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/23/novatels-xu870-hsdpa-expresscard/

Capt'n Midnight

smellslikeshoes wrote:

If its unlimited, even at gprs It would still be better than dialup. Would all depend on the quality though.

It's 5GB per month. The most painful thing about dialup is the constant nagging feeling that you are being fleeced every second you stay on line.
And I've been told that that the fixed charge is whether you use 3G or GPRS.
So if you are out in the sticks or commute by train it's not a bad deal.

The pcmcia card has a orinoco type connector for an antenna - beware they have a design life of ~ 20 insertions so if you use the antenna leave it plugged in in fact eh, use some tape to hold it too. The petals are extrememly fragile and if you don't line it up straight you will damage it.

The pcmcia card has WiFi built in. Does anyone know if you can use it with Vodaphone hotspots without paying extra - cos that would be v. nice. ?

Compaq Ipaqs could take a PCMCIA cradle (hens teeth) but you would need software drivers for it and I didn't check the CD for Windows CE. A tablet PC running Windows should work if it's got an i386 compatible chip.

Urban Weigl

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

Will this work. http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/23/novatels-xu870-hsdpa-expresscard/

Yes. Just make sure you don't buy a version designed for US networks.

Urban Weigl

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The pcmcia card has a orinoco type connector for an antenna - beware they have a design life of ~ 20 insertions so if you use the antenna leave it plugged in in fact eh, use some tape to hold it too. The petals are extrememly fragile and if you don't line it up straight you will damage it.

Do you know where I can buy an external antenna to boost the 3G signal?

leoc

Urban Weigl wrote:

Do you know where I can buy an external antenna to boost the 3G signal?

For that matter, is there any kind of antenna/booster system available for fixed locations - involving, say, a directional antenna on the side of a house, pointed at Vodafone's nearest 3g-enabled base-station? (I have in mind a house which is almost a stone's throw from one of the red areas on their 3G map.)

Urban Weigl

This is in German, but it's the only page I could find with Vodafone 3G/UMTS antennas. The data connect card does have an external antenna socket: http://www.preisroboter.de/ergebnis1133743.html

Edit: Apparently some users in Germany use a directional 11dBi UMTS antenna called the "SLP17", which connects to any 3G card with the correct pigtail. I am currently trying to find a source for it.

Update: Found it, and this thing is a giant (even oscarBravo might be able to pick up a Vodafone signal with this monster!): http://www.thiecom.de/shop1/index.html?target=Zubehoer_von_A_bis_ZAntennen_fuer_2zo4_GHz.html

Unfortunately all the information is in German. I tried searching for antennas in English first, but after I didn't find anything, I tried using a different language.

Cryos

Urban Weigl wrote:

This is in German, but it's the only page I could find with Vodafone 3G/UMTS antennas. The data connect card does have an external antenna socket: http://www.preisroboter.de/ergebnis1133743.html

Edit: Apparently some users in Germany use a directional 11dBi UMTS antenna called the "SLP17", which connects to any 3G card with the correct pigtail. I am currently trying to find a source for it.

Update: Found it, and this thing is a giant (even oscarBravo might be able to pick up a Vodafone signal with this monster!): http://www.thiecom.de/shop1/index.html?target=Zubehoer_von_A_bis_ZAntennen_fuer_2zo4_GHz.html

Unfortunately all the information is in German. I tried searching for antennas in English first, but after I didn't find anything, I tried using a different language.

Excellent, broke the clip on the end of my arial for my 3g card

Urban Weigl

A word of warning, you could use a normal WLAN antenna. But because this type of antenna is designed for 2.4-2.5GHz, while it would probably work grand, it could cause reflections. The result? Permanent damage to your 3G Connect Card. At least in theory. So only use approved equipment specifically designed for UMTS.

By the way, I just read a short review somebody posted of the SLP17 antenna. He is 6.5km from the nearest 3G mast, without direct line of sight. Without it, he gets zero bars. With it, he gets a solid 3 bars, and it works perfectly.

lucernarian

Urban Weigl wrote:

A word of warning, you could use a normal WLAN antenna. But because this type of antenna is designed for 2.4-2.5GHz, while it would probably work grand, it could cause reflections. The result? Permanent damage to your 3G Connect Card. At least in theory. So only use approved equipment specifically designed for UMTS.

By the way, I just read a short review somebody posted of the SLP17 antenna. He is 6.5km from the nearest 3G mast, without direct line of sight. Without it, he gets zero bars. With it, he gets a solid 3 bars, and it works perfectly.

How do these reflections you speak of risk damaging the data card?

leoc

The specifications for the SLP17 say that it's not suitable for GPRS - is this likely to be a problem? The SLP15 appears to be GPRS-compatible - do you know how it compares?

Urban Weigl

leoc wrote:

The specifications for the SLP17 say that it's not suitable for GPRS - is this likely to be a problem? The SLP15 appears to be GPRS-compatible - do you know how it compares?

As long as you are using it to pick up a 3G/UMTS signal, no, it won't make any difference. Obviously if you want to use it to pick up a GSM/GPRS signal, it won't work properly. Thiecom will ship to Ireland (I talked to them on the phone today, and the guy I talked to seemed very helpful and friendly), and they accept Irish VAT numbers.

Regarding using an antenna designed for a different frequency, I'm not an RF guy, but supposedly if the antenna does not match, it can cause some of the signal to reflect back into your card, essentially slowly cooking your radio. Not to mention that it won't work as well as using an antenna optimised for the correct frequency. From what I understand, even if it doesn't cause any damage, it just isn't a good idea.

uncle_sam_ie

Urban Weigl wrote:

As long as you are using it to pick up a 3G/UMTS signal, no, it won't make any difference. Obviously if you want to use it to pick up a GSM/GPRS signal, it won't work properly. Thiecom will ship to Ireland (I talked to them on the phone today, and the guy I talked to seemed very helpful and friendly), and they accept Irish VAT numbers.

Regarding using an antenna designed for a different frequency, I'm not an RF guy, but supposedly if the antenna does not match, it can cause some of the signal to reflect back into your card, essentially slowly cooking your radio. Not to mention that it won't work as well as using an antenna optimised for the correct frequency. From what I understand, even if it doesn't cause any damage, it just isn't a good idea.

I'm 7 miles to the nearest 3G mast. Do reckon it would pick up the signal.

Urban Weigl

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

I'm 7 miles to the nearest 3G mast. Do reckon it would pick up the signal.

Sadly, I doubt it, unless you have great line of sight (even if you do, I don't know if that isn't too far). Remember that 7 miles is 11km, which is quite some distance! I really don't know much about 3G coverage, but my gut tells me it won't work that far. Then again, I've tested ordinary 802.11b Wifi, and that seems to work great up to 16km or so with pretty low gain antennas, as long as you have line of sight... The only report I've read that mentioned distance when using this 3G outdoor antenna was somebody using it 6.5km away, and he got excellent speeds and 3 bars reception. Perhaps you could call Voda and see if they plan any 3G masts closer to your location in the next 6-12 months?

I am not qualified to answer your question with any kind of certainty. Perhaps somebody else could?

uncle_sam_ie

Urban Weigl wrote:

Sadly, I doubt it, unless you have great line of sight (even if you do, I don't know if that isn't too far). Remember that 7 miles is 11km, which is quite some distance! I really don't know much about 3G coverage, but my gut tells me it won't work that far. Then again, I've tested ordinary 802.11b Wifi, and that seems to work great up to 16km or so with pretty low gain antennas, as long as you have line of sight... The only report I've read that mentioned distance when using this 3G outdoor antenna was somebody using it 6.5km away, and he got excellent speeds and 3 bars reception. Perhaps you could call Voda and see if they plan any 3G masts closer to your location in the next 6-12 months?

I am not qualified to answer your question with any kind of certainty. Perhaps somebody else could?

That's ok, I'll be in the US next week buying my Macbook pro. I'll just have to drive the seven miles. It will beat the 25 mile I have to drive to cork now for broadband at my in-laws house.

jwt

LOL :rolleyes:

Progress Irish style eh?

John

uncle_sam_ie

jwt wrote:

LOL :rolleyes:

Progress Irish style eh?

John

Ya, when I told my family in the US that I have to drive to get broadband access they wanted to know if I was using a car or a horse and buggy to get there

Urban Weigl

The Linksys 3G router is going for 148 ex. VAT on elara.ie. I just ordered mine on Monday (yesterday), and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow (Wednesday). Total cost was 190 including vat (once you figure in shipping and everything).

Not too expensive really. The Vodafone unlimited data plan is 49 euros for the 3G mobile connect card, than you get the first month free, and 49 euros a month that (all prices including VAT).

So basically, it works out at 190 euros for the Linksys router + 49 a month. Less if you can claim VAT back!

cgarvey

Yeah, the router is fine for some.. but if travelling, it's not something you can easily carry around the place. I'm still debating the various options.

uncle_sam_ie

Urban Weigl wrote:

The Linksys 3G router is going for 148 ex. VAT on elara.ie. I just ordered mine on Monday (yesterday), and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow (Wednesday). Total cost was 190 including vat (once you figure in shipping and everything).

Not too expensive really. The Vodafone unlimited data plan is 49 euros for the 3G mobile connect card, than you get the first month free, and 49 euros a month that (all prices including VAT).

So basically, it works out at 190 euros for the Linksys router + 49 a month. Less if you can claim VAT back!

Is easy to make the router mobile if I wanted to take it on the road?

cgarvey

Car adaptor of some sorts. The Pound (sic) Shops sometimes sell the variable voltage cigarette ligher adaptors for CD players, etc. Dunno about that particular router, but the routers I have here are 100-200mA, which should be fine for said adaptors.. but you'll need to check the voltage/current requirements for that router. Worst case scenario, you could get an inverter (to turn your 12V DC into 220-230V AC) which gives you an ordinary socket to plug your router into.

Apart from that, it's just the bulk I was referring to in an earlier post.

.cg

JohnnieM

It's not exactly cheap at €179, so I'm still looking for a better source. Remember you'll still need the Vodafone 3G Mobile Connect card, which is €99 with a 12-month contract. If you've a new laptop from Dell or Apple, which has the newer ExpressCard slot, Vodafone tell me that it's possible to source a USB or Firewire PCMCIA adapter. They are currently testing an ExpressCard-based 3G Data Connect card, but this won't be available for some time.[/QUOTE]

Also dont forget usage charges on 3g are based on volume not time you pay so much per mb.. there are packages available 6mb is 18 euro and they get cheeper the more you pay up front... horrendous for downloading not to bad for surfing .

JohnnieM

It's not exactly cheap at €179, so I'm still looking for a better source. Remember you'll still need the Vodafone 3G Mobile Connect card, which is €99 with a 12-month contract. If you've a new laptop from Dell or Apple, which has the newer ExpressCard slot, Vodafone tell me that it's possible to source a USB or Firewire PCMCIA adapter. They are currently testing an ExpressCard-based 3G Data Connect card, but this won't be available for some time.[/QUOTE]

Also dont forget usage charges on 3g are based on volume not time you pay so much per mb.. there are packages available and they get cheeper the more you pay up front... horrendous for downloading not to bad for surfing . Type of User Bundle Size Price per month*

Regular 50MB €20
Daily 100MB €40
Heavy 500MB €75
Super 1GB (1000MB) €85

cgarvey

2 coorections .. the MobileConnect card is €49 with a 12 month contract (for a limited time I think). There is an unlimited data plan (subject to an AUP) for €49/mo. Prices include VAT.

Zaphod

What sort of IP address do you get with this service - is it public/private, static/dynamic?

cgarvey

public dynamic, but it looks like it's firewalled off

Zaphod

So what are my chances of being able to run VNC over it?

cgarvey

As a client (in terms of performance) or a host (in terms of port blocking/firewall)?

As a host, not much unless you use man in the middle (UltraVNC does have a MitM app which might help, or some similar concept.

As a client, the performance is fine. I've only barely noticed latency (over my interleaved DSL). Even over GPRS, it's a whole lot more usable than dialup.

.cg

Zaphod

Unfortunately for me I was hoping to use it as a host. Thanks anyway.

Mr Burns

Does vodaphone 3g card work with a standard PC? Can the card be made fit?

cgarvey

You can buy a PCI > PC Card/Cardbus adaptor (the PC Card extends out the back of your case). Use the provided (albeit short in length) external antenna and if you're in a good signal area, you should be OK.

Here's one example, but I've no idea how reputable they are, or if you'll get it cheaper / locally.

JohnnieM

cgarvey wrote:

2 coorections .. the MobileConnect card is €49 with a 12 month contract (for a limited time I think). There is an unlimited data plan (subject to an AUP) for €49/mo. Prices include VAT.

I stand corrected

cgarvey

JohnnieM wrote:

I stand corrected

Be seated